I have been a software developer in an large organization for more than a decade. I have ADHD and see’s a psychiatrist every 3 weeks. Boss is now demanding access for to all my health records or said he will fire me. He has also locked my Active Directory account (he says temporary) and deactivated my building pass until I sign the document for HR to obtain all my medical records.<p>I have till Monday (less than a week) to sign the document.<p>I am located in Australia.<p>Should I sign the document so my employer has access to all my medical records and all the psychiatrist's notes on me?<p>TL;DR ADHD Software Developer. Employer demands access to all information in my medical records.<p>Letter I am forced to sign to keep my job is below:<p>Link: https://imgur.com/a/Qpvw9M6
I don't know Australian law but in some parts of the world this sounds like a sweet future settlement. Lawyer up ASAP - before Monday, before they do anything. Seek support from a local professional to know how exactly to handle this situation in your favor.<p>To answer the question: I wouldn't ever do it. I have ADHD, there is nothing embarrassing in my med records but I would not trust any unrelated company (employer, client) to handle and erase this data safely. It's private and absolutely not intended for them.<p>If I may ask, what happened prior to the request of your employer? Did they found otherwise illicit drugs on you and require this documentation as a proof that you are allowed to possess it?
Absolutely not, that’s quite invasive and inappropriate.<p>You should consider seeking employment legal advice so you can have expert help navigate this with you.<p>You should call someone from <a href="https://www.fwc.gov.au/resources/where-get-legal-help" rel="nofollow">https://www.fwc.gov.au/resources/where-get-legal-help</a> from the “Legal help from other organisations” section.<p>I’m based in Australia too.
I am also a software developer in Australia (NSW). I was 'headhunted' (in the loose sense) for a role and they booked me in for a "pre-employment medical check".<p>I assumed it would be something like: medical professional is briefed on my typical duties; medical professional assesses my abilities to perform these duties; medical professional then makes a recommendation to the employer. However on arriving and being presented the T&Cs and pre-check questionnaires, it became clear that the exercise was actually one of me declaring any and all medical information I could, with the T&Cs requiring that I consent to all of this information being provided to the employer.<p>I phoned my contact at the employer and said that this was ridiculous, and that none of the information I was asked to provide was relevant to the role: "it's just company policy for all employees", "we have a solid privacy policy".<p>They said that they had another health provider who was more 'lax' about what they asked. I contacted the provider and got a hold of their equivalent T&Cs and questionnaire, and it was way worse. Example questions: "Are you happy with your current weight?", "Has your weight changed in the past 5 years?", "In terms of noise, have you ever been exposed to (chainsawing|scuba diving|panel beating)?", "Are you pregnant or do you think you could be?". There were also questions about health conditions of family etc.<p>Ultimately I told them I wasn't interested in the organisation whilever they required me to unnecessarily disclose personal medical information. That said, I recognise I am very fortunate to be in a financial position to 'die on that hill', but I wish enough of us felt able to stand up to this bullshit so that none of us would have to.
As others said, you have to talk to a lawyer. This sort of thing is in the realm of workers' rights, hence very country-specific.<p>As a personal rule, if there is one thing I will never, <i>ever</i> share with my employer, no matter how much support they say they'll give me, is my mental-health data. The potential for abuse is just way, way too high.
Astounding. I can't think of a situation where this kind of intrusion is ethically acceptable. It were me, I'd question (with a lawyer) what their intent is. Why would a reputable employer stick their neck out like this? Sounds desperate, but maybe I've been reading too much fiction lately.<p>Document everything, try to keep the situation at work coasting along while you speak to a competent lawyer. I'm not Australian or anyone's lawyer, but my impression is that any sudden moves here can make the case against your employer much harder if you give them a reason to fire you. Next couple months are likely gonna be rough. Watch out for gaslighting attempts.<p>Be safe out there.<p>Addendum: I should clarify what I meant by "coasting along". I've heard that if you stop working come Monday that can also make the case harder for you if they fire you, since they can just say you "stopped showing up". Again, not legal advice, just advice I've heard, see what your lawyer thinks...
Fuck No<p><a href="https://lawpath.com.au/blog/what-information-can-an-employer-request-from-an-employee" rel="nofollow">https://lawpath.com.au/blog/what-information-can-an-employer...</a><p>/edit: what's the back story about this, your boss won't come to all of his subordinates, lock their accounts and demand their medical records?
As others have said - it's invasive, and probably illegal.<p>BUT - I feel like we're missing some context here. Is your reason for refusal based solely on privacy concerns, or that you don't want them to know you see a psychiatrist? Have you been underperforming and used your ADHD as justification/excuse as to why and they want some proof of that?<p>You're mentioning the ADHD, so it must be relevant in some way, otherwise the post would simply be "My company wants my medical records, should I allow it?"
IANAL but please you should find one asap. Collect every evidence you have, print it on paper and sue your employer.<p>I don't know about Australian law but in jurisdictions I'm familiar with what you are describing is definitely illegal.
In the US this is expressly forbidden by the Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA). It would surprise me a lot if stuff in AU is even worse than here, since for the most part it is pretty bad here. Anyway, contact a labor lawyer.
Absolutely print all documents you have related to this request and then contact a lawyer. If you don't have anything in writing yet, try to get something in writing ASAP(try to play dumb while you do it).
We need more context to judge the situation, but, i don't see any reason why they should have access to your medical records. A letter from your doctor should be sufficient. Get a lawyer asap, don't sign anything, you might be in for a sweet settlement if they decide to fire you.
No. And also: FUCK NO.<p>I'm not an expert in Australian law, but in every single country it's expressly forbidden to ask about people's health history as it's covered by multiple laws.
I work in information security in a large organization. If I were informed about this, I’d immediately speak with Data Privacy personnel, HR, your manager and possibly your manager’s manager.
I would not sign that agreement. I suggest you speak to the Fair Work Ombudsman, who is the agency that exists to help you with these kinds of matters in Australia.<p><a href="https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/fixing-a-workplace-problem/ask-for-our-help-with-a-workplace-problem" rel="nofollow">https://www.fairwork.gov.au/workplace-problems/fixing-a-work...</a>
- That's crazy. I would say no way.
- I hope your in a position to move on. Like someone else said, they badically just fired you.
- You could try to fight it. Probably expensive and no guaranted payday.
- Companies should be able to ask whatever they want.
- Would you want to work for someone like this anyways? Hopefully no one would.
Happened in Switzerland too: the offshore manager (India) insisted she hands over the medical records of her therapy status, she complied, then she was put on PIP with the outspoken prospect to be fired. Then fired, and the trial is ongoing. Moral: DO NOT ACCEPT THAT. NO.
It is legal and normal(ish) in Austaralia [0] - talk to your doctors (immediately) they will have seen it before, lawyers will likely tell you to sign (I personally find emplyment lawyers the worst - my bias).<p>[0] <a href="https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/august/employment-law-a-guidance-note-for-general-practitioners-on-providing-patient-information-to-employers/" rel="nofollow">https://www.racgp.org.au/afp/2017/august/employment-law-a-gu...</a> (not the best source but probably a more useful one than the actual legislation)<p>My personal assumptions - It sounds like you have some or all of the following happening; a) a poor relationship with your boss, b) you have been back and forth refusing to sign this, c) had a bunch of time off sick, d) are on the path to being dismissed and they are lining up their various options, e) company has a covid vaccine idea to have everyone sign this and it has nothing to do with your mental health.<p>Some combination of the above suggest you are on your way out of the organisation - brush up the cv, cleanup your work and get an employment lawyer for the pending dismisal. You have been there 10 years, its amazing how personal and owrk merges over time. I didnt even have a copy of my employment contract when they shut the workplace email, phone, etc off. Let alone internal information that will be relevant to your dismisal. Disclaimer: dont steal stuff or IP etc.<p>If they are locking the doors, you may have missed the bus to negotiate a reasonable settlement whereby your practicioner(s) can certify you have no medical issues that would affect your role without the full release of medical records. If my assumptions are all wrong then that would be the most reasonable course of action.
This is not legal advice, which you should have been seeking long before coming to this forum. That aside, were I in your shows, I would not sign. EVER!!!!!!
If you lived in France, you'd sue immediately and you'd win and be well compensated, the company would also be likely publicly shamed on national tv.<p>This is ridiculous
Stupid question, shouldn't the employer ask for a single certificate that your psychiatrist can provide and that's it?<p>Otherwise, the idea of getting a lawyer seems like a great way to get free money in this circumstance
I'm going to create a script called autoreply.pl<p><pre><code> if $title =~ m/^ask hn.*\b(employer|boss|hr)\b/i reply("Talk to a lawyer.")</code></pre>