I have a dream job in terms of work-life balance so I don't even have to think about it on the weekend. In theory, this is the right time to relax, do whatever is not job-related, enjoy the time with family, friends, etc.<p>That said, recently I have some strange discomfort inside when, for example, watching a movie in the evening. It feels wrong to spend time this way when there are so many things I still don't know or understand in computer science, software engineering and related fields.<p>Even though I do enjoy reading technical books and learning new things, it feels stressful at time when you would like to do something else, but it feels stressful and, well, "wrong".<p>Probably, someone has experienced the same and can share their take on that.<p>I realize how stupid that might sound, but this is what it is :)
I went through a lot of what you’re going through and I realized something: I just really like what I do. To the point that reading technical articles in my spare time is not work to me. Learning new things is mentally very gratifying, even if that may never go into my resume.<p>I wouldn’t call myself a workaholic at all. Work can be stressful even if challenging. But if I had a billion dollars and didn’t have to work at all I’d still do the exact same things I do today.<p>I don’t think that’s really a problem. Does a surgeon not read technical articles on her free time? Does an NBA player not work on his game in the off-season? All of that is unpaid labor, but they just really want to get better at what they do because they feel good getting better.<p>If you feel that’s stressful then just check if you’re doing it for the right reasons. Personally I do it because I like it, not because it’ll pay off career-wise in the future. It never crossed my mind that one day I’d get paid more because of all the things I learned years ago: I just learned them at the time because I wanted to.
One thing that might help is accepting the fact that you can <i>never</i> learn everything there is the learn. Human lifespans are finite and it’s just impossible to ever know everything. Focus on getting done what’s in front of you, and once in a while take a look at where you’d like to go and learn what you need to get there.<p>It will be liberating to accept that you have to let some (many) things just pass you by.
In my 20s I had this mindset that I always needed to be learning a new tool or language.<p>After a decade plus of that, I found a tech stack that I liked enough to stick with long term. I didn't plan it that way, I just found one that made work enjoyable again and decided none of the technical improvements other tools might offer would outweigh the quality of life I'd found.<p>What I found after sticking with the same language and toolset for 5 years was that there was a new level of mastery I'd never known before.<p>I was writing code as fast as I could write English. I was spending up to 100% of my dev time on a given day working on purely the functionality in my project. Little to no time spent looking up how to do things.<p>Nobody deserves any shame for looking up info to help them code. We've accepted it's an important and reasonable part of the job. And it never bothered me.<p>But when I experienced for the first time that I'd truly memorized and internalized nearly everything about my day to day work, I found a surprising and unprecedented level of focus on what really mattered.<p>All those context switches throughout the day hopping between coding and figuring out how to do something, they'd become so normal to me and to the field that it didn't occur to me that they were not strictly necessary.<p>I could switch to a new language today and be fairly productive with it a week from now. It wouldn't feel weird to anyone that I was spending a lot of time looking up info to learn how best to work with it. Even experienced devs do that.<p>But what I understand now is the true cost of being on that treadmill to chase skills I think I'm supposed to have because they're newer and fit one of the subjective definitions of "better".<p>Feeling less pressure to spend my free time constantly upgrading my skills hadn't been a motivating factor, but it was a bonus. You still want to learn new things, but you should understand that much of what we're bombarded with are new ways to do things we already know how to do, in a supposedly better but really just different way.
Fill up your spare time with things you find more fun, fulfilling or meaningful than work. The problem will naturally solve itself if you have things to draw your attention and passion. The trap folks fall into, imo, is to not foster that outside of their careers and then that's all they end up having (their careers).
Obsession with "effectiveness" may be a sign of narcissism IMHO.<p>However, it may be that you just don't like your usual weekend activities. Try seeking a more rewarding and less passive kind of leisure.
Find a hobby. I do motorcycling and Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. Other people I know so skiing, hiking, camping, bicycling, running, weight lifting. They are plenty of less physically demanding hobbies as well.<p>Find something outside your normal comfort zone and don't worry about being good at it.
Do the Drawabox course. A dry, intentionally tough course on technical drawing might seem a little out of left field, but the way it is set up makes it a meditative practice: you can spend a little bit of your day trying to draw straight lines, and feel assured that the skill remains the same the next day, that pens and paper will do basically the same thing, and that you can make images with the skill that won't disappear because of the software changing. You don't have to "upload context" for an hour to work on a picture either; short glances throughout the day and gradual accumulation of lines will suffice.<p>These are very good grounding complements to the "software mind", which is perpetually concerned about that disappearance, and needs massive quantities of uninterrupted thought about context-heavy problems. In both cases, you still have to concentrate and plan to get worthwhile results, but with drawing you have much more leeway to let go, and the act of drawing is really the act of learning about something through good observation - good enough that you can reproduce it through marks on a page - so it brings forward a sensibility in yourself that you can apply to anything.
I'd encourage you to dig a couple levels deeper.<p>Time is wasted when the value of what you're spending it on is less than the opportunity cost of what you <i>could</i> be spending it on [1]. What is the opportunity cost of you not learning more about software engineering?<p>In other words, what is the <i>goal</i> you're not working toward? And then, if you want to go deeper: <i>why</i> is that the goal?<p>Is it extrinsic? Do you want to get better at work so you can rise up in the company and get more money? Are you trying to gain the experience to someday start your own company?<p>Is it intrinsic? Is there a topic you're interested in learning about for its own sake? A side project you want to build?<p>In my leisure time, I prioritize intrinsic interests: hobbies or side projects that I find personally fulfilling. It might be that you still find yourself gravitating toward computer science or related fields — and that's okay! There's no rule that says your vocation and avocations need to be unrelated.<p>Of course, everyone is different, and you're free to pursue extrinsic interests in your leisure time too. Just try to keep perspective — in the end, the rat race doesn't matter, and you'll probably think back more fondly on time spent with meaningful people and activities.<p>Either way, keep in mind that burnout is very real, and you can indeed have too much of a good thing. Watching a movie with friends or playing a game with your family can make the hours you spend learning <i>more</i> effective!<p>[1] For example, writing a long comment on HN instead of finishing a song you've been writing ;)
A couple ideas:<p>1) Scratch the itch. Allow yourself time block on the weekends (maybe 30 or 60min per day?) to indulge your curiosity. Try it for a few weeks and see how it feels. See if that’s enough or if you find yourself missing out on other aspects of your life. A lot of people swear by a daily practice and maybe part of yours could be learning or practicing your craft.<p>2) Journal / meditate. Allow yourself to notice these thoughts of anxiety and stress and release them as you breathe out, or write about them or draw imagery as you explore these thoughts deeper. Just transferring these thoughts from an internal experience to an external act helps a lot of people move through feelings of discomfort.<p>Either way, bottling these feelings probably won’t help. I’d recommend finding some outlet for your thoughts.<p>And by the way this all sounds totally normal and relatable.<p>If neither if those things work, maybe just give yourself little 2 or 3 week experimentation windows to try something new. Whatever brings you the least amount of suffering is probably a good choice.
Fun thing is... Everybody always told me learning new things is my job, my logical conclusion was that I get paid for that... Turns out no they won't pay for that - so we'll fuck them, yes I will learn something on my own time, then find a new job where I get paid for this new skill and the skills I already have... Well I am now working freelance now and it's great, sure I had lots of exciaty in the beginning, but I choose who I work for, when and how I work and I set my price point... Another tip... If they don't try to pay you less, you where much to cheap and should double the price for similar work - you can always go lower, but not higher (and ignore what everybody says - the goal is not to work harder or longer, if that is what turns out to be - go back to a 9-5job... Goal is to work less and get more money, like I am only working 24hours a week for same/more pay). Getting an expert in everything is a fools errand
Your first 10 years in this industry are mainly learning standards, patterns, and foundational information. After that ten years, everything just clicks. It's like one day the fabric that underpins most of your day to day becomes apparent.<p>With that said, in my 20s I crashed through many of these subjects. I did well enough, and now maybe I'm a bit young for my level, but there's not a <i>ton</i> to show for that. My advice, take your time and treat learning like a marathon. The big salaries and opportunities will always be there, and the stronger the relationship with that foundational fabric the more in grasp those opportunities will continue to be.
I'm an all or nothing kind of person (though less so as I get older). When I'm immersed in a project, I don't want to take much leisure time, I want to keep going. So i prefer intense project work without downtime, and then real vacation where there is nothing hanging over me, vs force breaks when there is work to be done. I consider that to be "work life balance"
It doesn't have to balance every week, or even every year. I don't know if that model can work for you with the constraints of your job, just something to consider.
So it feels wrong both ways? The answer will be different for everyone, it depends on "why" it feels wrong. You'll have to introspect to find the answers.<p>In the mean time, I can try to psycho analyze your feelings using my own experience.<p>It feels wrong to "watch a movie when I could be learning more" is a manifestation of "this isn't the best use of my time". Like the feeling of a deadline or a big exam coming up. It's hard to do anything but study when you feel like you're behind.<p>Likewise, you also wonder if studying is the best use of your time. The act of studying is fundamentally boring. Its tedious and unrewarding in the short term. Like digging ditches, you'll occasionally find bits of gems. It adds up over time, but takes a lot of time and hard work to reap the rewards.<p>I guess the question is, do you have any source of fulfillment aside from programming?<p>I love coding. I love reading about it outside of work. I love a lot of other things too. I have no problem turning it off because the work isn't going anywhere and the only deadline is the one I make for myself. Further time I spend on coding means time not spent on other important experiences.<p>Just do your best to do the things you enjoy, and realize that's all anyone can do.
If you enjoy learning, and want to be doing it, by all means do. Remember that it doesn't have to be something you need for your day job, it could be something you just find interesting, and want to enrich yourself with.<p>I would worry less about whether your leisure time feels non-technical, and more about whether your leisure time feels disconnected from any obligations you may have or feel like you have, including your job.
Twenty years into my career, I no longer feel any pressure from acute knowledge gaps as I have a better perspective on the limits of my own skills and retention. That said, what got me where I am today was obsessive curiosity about how things work combined with a bit of workaholism. I have gone through periods of higher and lower engagement at different jobs, but one thing is common: when I'm highly engaged I have a hard time unplugging on nights and weekends. It's not based on a misplaced obligation to work, but just the way my brain works.<p>Value judgements aside, whenever I started getting stuck in my own head, the best way is physical activity. Low intensity activities like hiking are great for working through problems and giving myself a new perspective. If I really want to unplug my brain completely the trick is amping up the intensity with some kind of athletic or skill based component. Personally I like mountain biking, snowboarding and weight training, but the important thing is that it be something you enjoy and can give you a sense of accomplishment/progression in the physical realm.
Take up combat sports. I do Brazilian Ju Jitsu which is awesome and pretty widely popular these days but it probably doesn’t matter which one you pick.<p>Having another human trying to attack and subdue you will be 100% effective in stopping you from thinking about software engineering, at least temporarily.<p>There’s really nothing that puts the triviality of modern life in perspective quite as effectively as directly experiencing actual violence.
I have a similar feeling, a bottomless search for knowledge, but I also don’t want to spend my years hunched over a computer. I try to fill my personal off time when I’m not with my wife or kid with something that lets me work with my hands, and has a level of mastery and a definite end to a project.<p>Woodworking has been that thing. There is probably a lifetime of learning little tricks, but you could have a full education without the mastery in a couple months of dedicated work. Then you’ll be up, moving (I use hand tools almost exclusively) and able to work on something rewarding, but not as mentally taxing. I actually usually come up with solutions to hard problems at work after I’ve been hand planing/sanding something for 20 minutes.<p>It’s also wonderful to be able to point to something and say “I made that” to friends and family. I usually ask a friend to come over and work on something with me, often it’s something I’m making for them.
I think as primarily a community of engineers or engineering affiliated people we immediately try and find a rational solution to things, but there is likely more to the way you’re feeling than something like ‘finding a new hobby’ can actually help with.<p>If you’re stressed out about relaxing or feel like you’re spending your time wrong, one thing that can help steer your thoughts a bit is finding/talking to a therapist. You may find that watching TV is what you actually want to do after everything else is considered. Or you may find that there’s something else you’ve been putting off for other reasons that is making you feel guilty about doing ‘less productive’ things. A therapist can really help guide your thoughts more personally than a group of strangers on the internet can(although plenty of random internet advice is also fine!).
I have experienced some of what you're describing, but to a much lesser extent. Here's what I can relate to, and how they turned out for me.<p>I typically have the kinds of feelings and motivations early-on at a new job, say during the first year when I'm learning a lot about the system I'm working on, related systems, and other systems. There is so much I don't know, and of the parts I do know, so much that's very broken and needs to be fixed. During this period, I did tend to work on things late on days often, or allow myself to think about them evenings or weekends as thoughts would pop into my head, but I rarely actually started coding something at night or on a weekend unless it was an Eureka! sort of moment.<p>Totally get that thing about watching a movie feeling bad. I never felt any guilt, merely a lack of fulfillment compared to solving a problem/puzzle that was lingering in my mind. What I'd typically do is work on side projects experimenting with different sorts of languages, frameworks, libraries, datastores or ways of constructing programs on toy projects. Then when my mind was tired, watch Netflix or some other kind of filler until past bedtime.<p>I never did feel that there was a very much to know that I didn't know that was directly relevant to the work I was doing. Most of the time problems at work can be solved with basic datastructures, database queries, etc. The extra reading tended to be things I wish I needed to use at work and mostly out of pure curiosity. Also never felt guilty about learning things on and off the job, even if they weren't directly job-related.<p>From the way your post is phrased, I would say that you have to 'cut yourself more slack'. I doubt anyone else expects nearly as much as you've put on yourself. Learn things the best way you can, apply what you can when you can, and have discussions on the things you see as problems to be solved so that you can align on a sense of priorities. You shouldn't feel you have to do extra things or spend extra time on work if you don't actually enjoy working on the problem. Those types of problems can wait until the workday starts.
I don't know. In high school and college I was pretty interested in doing random projects, learning frameworks, working on games, and it was great experience to build up to being where I needed to be for the professional world. Now I have a good job with those skills, which I use time on the job to keep up on, but otherwise for the rest of the day I find myself more interested in other things like going out on the ebike, working on an engine or similar thing with my friend, going shooting, or a few other things. Maybe you just need to find things like all that that feel more "productive" than a movie.
As long as it’s not interfering with connecting with people, just consider yourself lucky.<p>I was like you maybe 10 years ago, and since then I’ve realized I’m just very fortunate that I find my work engaging and interesting.<p>When I’ve had bad jobs, I’ve kind of burned out on computer stuff and spent more time away from screens. It’s draining to hate your job.<p>When I’ve loved my jobs I’ve found it energizing to stay engaged and explore what I’m working on in my spare time occasionally. Usually it’s not just about solving a problem for my employer, but being able to explore interesting technologies while it also benefits my work. It’s great - everyone wins.<p>There have been times where I feel anxious about work though, and I’d rather do something else but I’m worried about how much I know or how well I can execute on upcoming problems. When that’s motivating you, my experience is that it’s mostly bad. You avoid people because you think you should be focused on work. You skip a shower here and there, skip meals, go to bed too late, etc. No job is worth compromising on your well-being and/or disconnected time with friends and loved ones.<p>It’s also exceedingly unlikely that you can move the needle on your contributions by compromising on your well-being.<p>So, that’s my take on it after 15 years or so working at a screen. There are good times and bad times to get absorbed in your work, good versions and bad versions. It can be hard to regulate for me, but I’ve found it important to recognize that it can actually be a good thing at times.<p>Also, your example of watching a movie seeming like a waste of time… that in particular seems to me like a case where we socially normalized watching movies/tv as a good way to decomp and relax. But shit, I can’t do it. It’s so boring for me 90% of the time. My mind loves to run and explore, not get boxed into some revision of a familiar story with different faces. Is it really worthwhile to spend your time that way? Frankly I think the notion that it might be a waste of time could be a signal that you’ve simply found a better way to spend your time!<p>Having said that, I totally get why some people like it and I’m not criticizing at all.
If it feels stressful to you, not sure what to recommend other than the "don't do it". If it's just the "it feels wrong" part, why is it wrong? My weekend days feel a lot better if I just spend half an hour or an hour on something to gain knowledge.<p>Just explain it to your family, block some time for it and stick to a time limit.<p>In my case I started early on with computers, then during my teens was too busy with meaningless stuff. Now I have that same urge to make up for that. A couple of years of uni also pound in the, "didn't learn anything today? That's stagnation".
I think you should do whatever you feel like, whether that's writing code or studying computer science at the weekend, or watching movies or going out in nature (try learning to identify birds!).<p>But if there are other people that you spend your life with at the weekend, then there's obviously a pretty good argument for doing something you'll enjoy doing together. (And obviously if there are not other people you spend your life with at the weekend, then there's probably an argument for addressing that at the cost of some time doing computer sciencey things.)
If you actually want to sit down and read programming books instead of watching movies there's nothing wrong with it. There's no right or wrong to how you want to spend your time so just do what you genuinely want to do.<p>If its actually interfering with other things though and you feel bugged by it try keeping a journal. If you're done with work, take fifteen minutes or so and write down what you've done, what you're going to do, what you've learned, what you've planned and so on. Writing is a good way to get things out of your mind.
Meditation. If you can make a practice of quieting your mind, that very act of being able to quiet your mind will enable you to control your mind in other ways, for example, putting work aside and enjoying being in the moment doing whatever.<p>-BUT-<p>There is a difference between obsession-based stress, where you just can't stop thinking of the never-ending streams of work and learning and coworker expectations vs. actual survival-oriented stress, like you're not performing up to expectations and need to get busy. Don't ignore that second type.
I honestly think that the only or most effective way is to do something else, that does not require a computer. For example, playing a sport, gym, or even going on a trip.
Honestly programming and CS in general feels like one of the biggest addictions in my life. Often times I'd like to quit, but...<p>(if someone's got tips on that, I'm listening)
The only stupid questions are the ones you don't ask.<p>I'm sure most people feel this way at some point but you just need to learn to deal with it in your own way. It's not the end of the world if your mind wanders whilst watching a movie but you should also accept that your brain needs time to organise itself and it may not always do this at your convenience.<p>There is a reason why people drink a lot at weekends - not that I am suggesting you do the same though.
I think it is important to have activities and relationships outside of work - don't let work crowd those out.<p>But I don't think there is anything wrong with replacing movies / TV with something like reading for work. When I am not busy with wife and kids, I default to reading non - fiction, mostly work related (I hardly watch any TV or movies)<p>Check out Cal Newport and his take on "high quality leisure" and reading as a default activity
Personally, I enjoy all things computer science and I find learning new things, researching new ideas, or working on hard problems very enjoyable. When I want to take a break, I engage in activities that let me get into a flow state. It could playing a fact-action video game, or hard physical labor outdoors.
for me (ymmv), I found the happiest times in my life was when I loved my job and so thinking about it outside of "work hours" didn't bug me. Not that I had a hard time having fun and doing non work related things, going out, seeing friends, dancing, etc but it also didn't bother me to do tech related stuff, hobby coding, etc<p>Now I work at a job I really have no real interest in. I do it because it pays 2x to 6x what my old jobs paid (games). I dream and waffle about going back. Golden handcuffs. It's hard to make so much less and have so much less freedom (more vacation and more flex at my current job) . But, is well paid and lots of perks but uninspiring job better than low pay, less perks, but happy job?<p>I can't decide
Something that helps me a lot in such situations is just wrtiting these thoughts down in a notebook to follow up later.<p>It's very calming to know that I won't forget this or that thing that I wanted to look up and I can get back to what I want to do instead right now.
i me universe, life & work are same one thing. And i am flowing from one to the other as it comes. Sometimes i live at work/place/times, sometimes i work outside work/place/times..<p>Also, consider the "Cooperative game manifesto - Alistair Cockburn et al" ... rephrasing it, what you "work" outside work/place/times may be preparing you for future work ; and the other way around, what you live in work/place/times, may prepare you for future live..<p>But then, i do have live outside work. Lots of it. Hobbies, family, friends, whatever. Make sure you have them too - they are the lifesaver when the "work"-half goes to nowhere
Some personality types find it hard to ever shut their brains off.<p>You say you have a dream job, but perhaps you are better suited to some kind of entrepreneurial activities.<p>At least if your mind is always active, your effort will be going purely to reward you.
If you enjoy learning new work related things in your spare time then that’s great! Nothing to worry about. It’s only a problem if you force yourself to do it instead of spending time doing something else you enjoy.
It‘s good that you ask this question, enjoy that you have a pleasurable way to make money, and if you wanna read engineering books on the weekend, don‘t stress about it, just remember that life is a marathon!
Hobbies like playing guitar, producing music, long dog walks, running, hiking, cooking, reading fiction; basically anything besides screen time does the trick for me.
I hate my job. I basically pretend it doesn't exist (unless I'm working that weekend or on call). I have plenty of chores and hobbies to keep me busy.
why thinking about work has to be stressful? The stress may come from somewhere else. Are you worry about losing job or something? Find the root of the stress, then think the worst scenario in details, it is not a big deal.
As a person, your value is intrinsic, not dependent on your output or ability. Work/school/capitalism/HN /etc. emphasize productivity, and you can invest in yourself and your output, but keep a broad view and remember to invest in others and their well-being. It’s far more important to be kind, humble, and loving than to be learned or impressive.