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Ukrainian president signs formal request to join the European Union

80 pointsby 0xedbabout 3 years ago

9 comments

scyzoryk_xyzabout 3 years ago
While I agree that much must be done to aid Ukraine, something everyone should understand is that the EU isn’t just a club that you sign a few papers to join.<p>It takes many years of reforms and organizational&#x2F;legal&#x2F;economic changes to reach the point of entry. This is a matter of compatibility and this is a drawn-our process. I come from Poland and the political establishment had to work for many years with much active help from EU member states to make that happen.<p>Ukraine currently has the goal of joining the EU in the constitution and one should remember that the R invasion in 2014 and the escape of Janukovich to Russia was largely motivated by the Euro Maidan - a series of protests which were triggered when, after winning the election, Janukovich told everyone that there would be no plan to join the EU after all.<p>Right now we shouldn’t be pushing the idea on Ukrainians that there is a possibility of fast-tracking this process. It will only make them angry when legal complexities reveal that it will take many years for it to happen.
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whatshisfaceabout 3 years ago
Wouldn&#x27;t this immediately put all of Europe into a state of war with Russia? (Assuming it was accepted now, before the end of the Russo-Ukrainian war)<p>Edit: I have looked it up and there are several precedents for a country joining the EU while opting out of defense[0]. However this would be the first time the <i>EU</i> would be in the position of wanting to refuse mutual defense, rather than the individual country wishing to opt-out.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ecfr.eu&#x2F;publication&#x2F;ambiguous-alliance-neutrality-opt-outs-and-european-defence&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ecfr.eu&#x2F;publication&#x2F;ambiguous-alliance-neutrality-op...</a>
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AnimalMuppetabout 3 years ago
Well, if you threaten invasion if they join, and then you invade <i>anyway</i>, they might as well go ahead and join...<p>(Yeah, I know, the threat was more about NATO than the EU. Still, the logic applies.)
pfishermanabout 3 years ago
I do think this shows some of the inconsistency of NATO &#x2F; EU policy goals wrt to Ukraine. They don’t want to admit Ukraine into NATO or the EU, but promising not to admit them is a non-starter?<p>To be sure Russia is the clear aggressor here and their political ambitions are no more sensible.<p>It seems to me like the clear sensible political solution here is for all sides to guarantee the security and neutrality of Ukraine (make it the Switzerland of Eurasia), and for Donetsk and Crimea to remain part of Ukraine as autonomous regions - a la Sud Tirol in Italy.
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nkt_mabout 3 years ago
I&#x27;m Ukrainian. Thank you all for your support.
xiphias2about 3 years ago
The amount of corruption that I’ve felt when I was in Kiev is crazy: somebody stole my passport, and I had to give money to a policeman to get it back (also I had to buy another plane ticket to get back to my country).<p>Ukraine is clearly not yet ready for a fast approval process to join the EU. At the same point it needs to join the NATO, as it’s clearly working together with it at this point.
helge9210about 3 years ago
Let&#x27;s (for simplicity) assume the war is not a factor. It&#x27;s also safe to assume there is a necessary majority to pass all the changes to adapt Ukraine laws to be part of EU. The major time sink would be coming up with all the compromises around economical interests of various market participants within EU and in Ukraine itself.
anshumankmrabout 3 years ago
But since the EU doesn&#x27;t have an army of its own, what would this change? I am praying for whatever is the most peaceful approach to keep Ukraine a sovereign nation.
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ukraineallyabout 3 years ago
EU is certainly on their side.<p>The decision before the EU would be to actively join the war against Russia.