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How BART on the Golden Gate Bridge died: A new history

134 pointsby mcycabout 3 years ago

17 comments

ethbr0about 3 years ago
It seems like every major infrastructure folly, at its heart, simplifies to &quot;Someone made their career espousing a certain worldview, and when facts changed in future decades, were unwilling or unable to change their now-famous beliefs.&quot;<p>In this case, car &gt; rail.<p>Which was true and progressive, for a period! Say, 1950 to 1970? But then became false as the growth rate of cars outscaled roads.
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BrianHenryIEabout 3 years ago
I learned recently, there used to be trains on the Bay Bridge! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;article&#x2F;50-years-since-trains-crossed-Bay-Bridge-3217302.php" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sfgate.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;article&#x2F;50-years-since-trains-cr...</a><p>I&#x27;m surprised there&#x27;s not an easy rule of thumb: if a road has over two lanes in each direction, the route is busy enough to sustain trains&#x2F;light rail.
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martinaldabout 3 years ago
Mildly interesting; the main bridge in Lisbon, Portugal (Ponte de 25 abril) was built by the same company as the golden gate bridge and looks almost identical. It had a railway added in 1999 underneath.
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throwaway4711about 3 years ago
Reminds me of this additional BART fubar, thanks to which we have no BART all the way around the bay.<p>Basically two self interested people on the San Mateo county board of supervisors kept the county residents from even voting on participating in the BART system! One was the head of Caltrain, fending off competition, the other a real estate developer.<p>NB, the Bohannon&#x27;s are now mega rich real estate owners [1] in the Bay Area.<p><i>Electric trains could have been here long ago. In the late 1950s, San Mateo County was one of five counties in the San Francisco Bay Area Transit District. The district could assess taxes and issue bonds and had a round-the-Bay light-rail system planned, according to a history at the website of Bay Area Rapid Transit (BART).<p>The plan derailed, according to the BART account, because San Mateo County supervisors were &quot;cool to the plan.&quot; They chose to exit the district in December 1961, citing the proposed system&#x27;s &quot;high costs&quot; and the &quot;adequate service&quot; from Southern Pacific commuter trains, now Caltrain.<p>George Mader, who retired in 2010 after 45 years as Portola Valley&#x27;s town planner, has another angle. The &quot;cool to the plan&quot; characters were two men of influence, he said in a March 11 letter to Portola Valley Mayor Ted Driscoll.<p>The &quot;major problems,&quot; Mr. Mader said, were T. Louis Chess, who chaired the county Board of Supervisors and worked for Southern Pacific Railway, and David D. Bohannon, a &quot;major player&quot; in the county and the developer of the then-new Hillsdale Shopping Center.<p>BART would take shoppers away from Hillsdale and into San Francisco, &quot;where shopping was rather good at the time,&quot; Mr. Mader said. For his part, Mr. Chess was protecting Southern Pacific. And the county voters would have had to decide on whether to join BART.<p>&quot;These short-sighted and selfish people did not let the residents vote,&quot; Mr. Mader said. &quot;A travesty!&quot;<p>As for high-speed rail today, Mr. Mader suggests &quot;a much better solution&quot; to the route controversy: Stop it at San Jose and extend BART around the Bay using the money that would have been spent on the South Bay and Peninsula sections of a high-speed rail line.</i><p>[0]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.almanacnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2011&#x2F;03&#x2F;29&#x2F;planner-has-alternative-future-for-bay-area-rail-travel" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.almanacnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;2011&#x2F;03&#x2F;29&#x2F;planner-has-alte...</a><p>[1]<a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ddbo.com&#x2F;mengat-office" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ddbo.com&#x2F;mengat-office</a>
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rsyncabout 3 years ago
&quot;The story goes: Marin County, worried about cost of the extension and engineering concerns of running BART on the Golden Gate Bridge, ultimately backed out of the BART District. Fin.&quot;<p>I want to push back on this slightly ...<p>The received wisdom - repeated ad infinitum - among bay area progressives is that Marin County rejected BART based on racist, exclusionary, NIMBY concerns. <i>That</i> is how &quot;the story goes&quot; in these discussions.<p>I have never heard anyone mention engineering issues.<p>The reality - which the article explains - is that both of these narratives are wrong:<p>Marin County approved BART and was ready to proceed and it was the San Mateo rejection that ultimately killed it.
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google234123about 3 years ago
I feel there has to be a huge amount of cronyism and corruption going on in the California government, otherwise how can anyone explain the astronomical costs in every rail project.
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russellbeattieabout 3 years ago
I wonder if this decision contributed to San Francisco&#x27;s population declining year after year from 1950 until 1980, before growing again. SF&#x27;s population today is only about 12% larger than it was in 1950. Basically, SF has looked the same from a traffic standpoint for the past 70+ years, which is pretty astounding.<p>Reading the article, it mentions that &quot;traffic control&quot; for buses was one of the reasons pushed for why a subway wasn&#x27;t needed. Interesting! As someone who lived and worked and rode the bus in SF for a total of six years, I&#x27;d just like to know what happened to <i>that</i> plan?? Buses should never have to stop for traffic, in my opinion.
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georgeecollinsabout 3 years ago
The really dumb thing was San Mateo county backed out initially, so that for a long time BART didn&#x27;t go to SFO.
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Lammyabout 3 years ago
&gt; But Jenkins vehemently opposed BART’s extension on the “human aspects involved in such a project.”<p>You don’t say? <a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;radicalcartography.net&#x2F;bayarea.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;radicalcartography.net&#x2F;bayarea.html</a><p>That little spot of blue there in Marin County is Marin City, the remnants of the World War 2 ship-building company Marinship’s company town.<p>&gt; In a 1960 letter to a bridge district board member, Jenkins argued that the only hope for BART to succeed was with entirely new housing and business developments along its routes<p>Thirty-thousand people would have lived here — now it’s a ghost town: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Marincello" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Marincello</a><p>I particularly “like” this Marincello opposition piece with what I assume is Mt. Tam being encircled by a menacing and dangerous invader whose color-coding is <i>entirely</i> arbitrary, I’m sure: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;99percentinvisible.org&#x2F;app&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2013&#x2F;11&#x2F;marin-snake.png" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;99percentinvisible.org&#x2F;app&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2013&#x2F;11&#x2F;marin-sna...</a><p>As mentioned in the article, here’s a map of the NWP electric interurban rail system that ran passenger service in Marin until 1941: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.redd.it&#x2F;zrvygksiojm51.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;i.redd.it&#x2F;zrvygksiojm51.jpg</a><p>One of its electric powerhouses still stands near the junction at Baltimore Park, and it’s in that beautiful Beaux Arts architectural style that was still popular in the 1910s.
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Moosdijkabout 3 years ago
Why does the article take so long to explain what BART stands for? Even then, it assumes a lot of prior knowledge.<p>This is one of the reasons I tend to read the comments on articles more than the articles themselves.
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dehrmannabout 3 years ago
The population of Marin County is only 258k, and more like 175k when Bart planning began. Building that line would probably serve more people in SF than in Marin, so it never really made sense.
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yodonabout 3 years ago
This reads like a highly fanciful interpretation of a hard set of large scale planning decisions that needed to be made, trying to frame it as some kind of &quot;Machiavellian&quot; conspiracy.<p>Light rail in the US in the past 50 years has objectively been an over priced under utilized boondoggle. It&#x27;s entirely believable buses may well have been the far better option for crossing the golden gate, even if a guy who works for the light rail system today doesn&#x27;t think so.<p>Having ridden both BART and the AC transit bus system across the bay from SF to the East Bay countless times, I&#x27;ll take the bus over BART every time. The bus system is better, cheaper, cleaner, safer feeling, and faster.<p>Bus systems are cheaper and more flexible in the face of population density changes and land use changes than light rail. You don&#x27;t need a conspiracy to have concluded bus systems are a better transit solution than light rail. Rational economic analysis can get you to buses just as easily (though you do have to fight off the lobbying campaigns by the large construction firms that want to tap the insane stream of public funds available when building a light rail system).
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phase5about 3 years ago
So well written and you&#x27;re working for BART? What&#x27;s going on with this world? Promote this guy.
drno123about 3 years ago
For us stupid Europeans - what is BART? First two paragraphs don’t explain it.
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sha_burnabout 3 years ago
When was the last time anyone in this thread saw an SF BART terminal of late?
sodality2about 3 years ago
Marcus Yallow in shambles.
sydthrowawayabout 3 years ago
SF needs a Robert Moses type figure