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Interop 2022: browsers working together to improve the web for developers

135 pointsby twapiover 3 years ago

11 comments

chrismorganover 3 years ago
&gt; <i>New viewport units</i><p>These new viewport units frustrate me immensely, because they have completely ignored the longstanding complete brokenness of viewport units on platforms that don’t use zero-layout-width overlay scrollbars (which currently means pretty much all desktop platforms except macOS by default, and even there it’s at least easily possible to turn off overlay scrollbars). Basically, viewport units are <i>always</i> the wrong thing if there might be scrollbars: they’re broken by design.<p>Instead they’ve fixed the problem with inconsistency of interpretation of viewport <i>height</i> units on <i>mobile</i> browsers, which was, generally speaking, not something that was <i>broken</i> in the same way as the desktop situation, and there were simple (if non-obvious) practical workarounds for the most likely thing people wanted anyway.<p>So yeah, the new viewport units <i>are</i> worthwhile for what they improve in mobile browsers, but I’m disgruntled that they’re being presented as fixing viewport unit situation when the people involved have continued to basically ignore what I perceive as the <i>real</i> and most significant problem with viewport units, which has been an issue from the very start in all browsers except Firefox, which <i>used</i> to have a tolerable workaround (essentially: `body { overflow-y: scroll }` would make vw exclude the scrollbar) until it was ripped out of the spec and Firefox because no one else was interested in implementing it for some reason.<p>In short: the new viewport units are <i>still</i> fundamentally broken by design, only in a way that doesn’t affect most mobile platforms or the default macOS configuration.
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ishitatsuyukiover 3 years ago
Funny that the subgrid example actually has a screenshot from a browser that doesn&#x27;t support subgrid: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;GoogleChrome&#x2F;web.dev&#x2F;issues&#x2F;7453" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;GoogleChrome&#x2F;web.dev&#x2F;issues&#x2F;7453</a><p>Well, that does say something about the dominance of Chrome...
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culiover 3 years ago
The last feature vanilla CSS needs to render most pre-processors obsolete (imo) is nesting. The latest CSS nesting specs are looking great and it&#x27;s kinda sad to not see it being prioritized
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userbinatorover 3 years ago
I&#x27;m absolutely horrified at what the &quot;modern web&quot; has become. More complexity, more bugs, more barriers to entry for anyone else wanting to write their own browser and have it be usable for most sites. Google seems determined to squeeze everyone else out with this feature-churn.
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ksecover 3 years ago
We used to have ACID 2 and ACID 3, do we have something similar to ACID 4? Or at least a subset of features that are <i>guarantee</i> to work across all browsers. While Caniuse is useful for checking support, many times there are browser that support something but it is buggy or differ from one another.
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nattaylorover 3 years ago
Neat. The big players seem committed and there is a scoring system to measure progress.
throwaway984393over 3 years ago
Shouldn&#x27;t it be &quot;to improve the web for <i>users</i>&quot; ? Developer Experience is important, but it shouldn&#x27;t be focused on in isolation from User Experience. If we were just talking about improving an IDE, it&#x27;s fine, but &quot;the web&quot; is about much more than development.<p>Personally I think the way web browsers work is kind of insane from a user perspective. &quot;The Web&quot; is obsessed with technical expertise and custom code. An application like MS PowerPoint (pick any other design tool you prefer) is designed for <i>users</i> to create multi-layered media content and display it anywhere, without requiring a college degree or months&#x2F;years of experience to make something. I don&#x27;t think people who actively work on the web have considered how over-complicated it all is. For an industry that talks obsessively about &quot;innovation&quot; and &quot;disruption&quot;, it can&#x27;t seem to conceive of a post-web-browser world.
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micromacrofootover 3 years ago
Subgrid and reliable viewport units on mobile devices are the holy grail for me. Very happy about these priorities. Thank you to everyone involved.
jdrcover 3 years ago
&gt; New viewport units<p>how many units does CSS have?? Shouldnt part of the improvement be to simplify and declutter the web&#x27;s fundamentals?
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TheAceOfHeartsover 3 years ago
It&#x27;s been a while since I looked into it, but are storage limits still a pain to handle across browsers?<p>According to this article, Safari doesn&#x27;t yet have properly documented limits on storage.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.dev&#x2F;storage-for-the-web&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.dev&#x2F;storage-for-the-web&#x2F;</a>
timwisover 3 years ago
I’m impressed safari is at the table. If I understand correctly, they only fix bugs once every six months, and don’t give any indication of timelines as matter of policy. For example, hasn’t locaStorage been broken in safari for ages? Or am I a bit behind the times? (Would have hoped to see that on the list if so)
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