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Ask HN: Does No-Fly zone mean declaring a War with Russia?

5 pointsby html5webabout 3 years ago
Why West is saying no the no-fly zone over the Ukraine while sanctioning Russia? Are sanctions alternative to the No-fly zone?

7 comments

html5webabout 3 years ago
Here&#x27;s a workaround which can be imposed by UN.<p>How might this work?<p>- Using Articles 5 and 6 of the UN Charter, Russia&#x27;s membership in the UN and, in particular, in the Security Council, should be suspended.<p>- The UN Security Council could then approve the no-fly-zone according to Article 42 of the UN Charter.<p>- In accordance with Article 47 of the UN Charter, a Military Staff Committee is established.<p>- The newly created NFZ coalition is established, under Articles 45 and 49 of the UN Charter.<p>- The NFZ is designed in a way that can ensure the protection of Ukraine’s airspace and avoid the escalation of military activities on the territory of other states.<p>There are various ways to implement a no-fly-zone, including the exclusion of hostile aircraft within a clearly defined area. The only operations on the ground would be to suppress enemy air defenses posing a threat to allied aircraft.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cepa.org&#x2F;no-fly-zone-now&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;cepa.org&#x2F;no-fly-zone-now&#x2F;</a>
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allearsabout 3 years ago
Yes, the thinking is that to actually enforce a no-fly zone would require NATO aircraft to attack Russian aircraft that attempt to violate the zone, thus escalating into a war between NATO and Russia. Supplying weapons or intelligence to Ukraine can be done &quot;under the radar&quot; so to speak, without engaging in actual fighting.
polski-gabout 3 years ago
Yes, shooting down Russian planes means war with Russia.
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orduabout 3 years ago
I withhold my own opinion, because I&#x27;m not an expert. Instead I can give you a link to another non-expert, Scott Alexander[1]. I like how he puts things together.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;astralcodexten.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;ukraine-thoughts-and-links" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;astralcodexten.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;ukraine-thoughts-and-l...</a>
html5webabout 3 years ago
This is what&#x27;s confusing me, West already providing weapons to Ukraine. Doesn&#x27;t that mean the same thing as providing the air defense, i.e. no-fly zone?
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tomohawkabout 3 years ago
With Russia threatening the Ukraine border, the US and other NATO countries pulled their people out. Military, diplomat, civilian - all out.<p>This cleared the space so that when Putin attacked, there would be no NATO personnel in the line of fire, and no excuse for a war.<p>If there was any interest in preventing what is going on, those people would not have been pulled out, and instead, additional exercises with Ukraine would have been conducted, sending a strong message to Putin.<p>Instead, a vacuum was created that would be hard for someone like Putin to resist.<p>It&#x27;s now pretty much too late, except for possibly establishing a no-fly zone in the west of Ukraine to deal with the humanitarian crisis. But, you would need some leadership ability to do that, and that is severely lacking.
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borealis-devabout 3 years ago
The sanctions don&#x27;t directly threaten the lives of Russian citizens and soldiers (arguably they may <i>indirectly</i> threaten lives in some cases, though); whereas a no-fly zone that is actively enforced by NATO would almost certainly lead to war with Russia (you can&#x27;t expect to shoot down Russian planes without military retaliation from them). IMHO, Putin doesn&#x27;t want a war with NATO any more than NATO members want a war with Russia, so the distinction between perceived direct and indirect threats is important.