TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

The marketplace of rationalizations

46 pointsby Phithagorasabout 3 years ago

6 comments

nonrandomstringabout 3 years ago
Happy ideas for sale. Mediums and palm readers have always known what western politicians only recently grasped - that people don&#x27;t care about truth, they care about feeling good about what they believe.<p>&quot;Can you tell a green field from a cold steel rail, blue skies from pain&quot; [1]<p>Did you exchange cold comfort for change? You can believe anything you like for a price.<p>Williams proffers that bullshit, and believing crazy things is a mutual stroking behaviour of a mass huddled together in the comfort of collective ignorance, and that within that group there are rewards for dreaming up the most soothing stories. He extends this beyond Harry Frankfurt&#x27;s position to say that an entire &quot;economy of bullshit&quot; exists. and that its trade could be &quot;an economic good&quot;.<p>This is why in Plato, Shakespeare, Cicero and so many luminaries, it is always the _mad_ (the fool) who deliver the truth. Only despised outsiders who have no skin in the collective self-delusion game are able to break the norms and deliver the unwelcome message. Further, (Foucault, Cassandra etc) there&#x27;s a market in silencing truth speakers who rock the boat of profitable rationalisation.<p>[1] Pink Floyd [2] On Bullshit: Harry Frankfurt
评论 #30697344 未加载
评论 #30697066 未加载
评论 #30697396 未加载
评论 #30697706 未加载
WJWabout 3 years ago
Huh, very interesting. Quote from the twitter thread linked in a sibling comment:<p>&gt; When preferences for beliefs are widespread, this constraint gives rise to <i>rationalization markets</i> in which agents compete to produce justifications of widely desired beliefs in exchange for money and social rewards such as attention and status.<p>As an example: when people would really like to believe in an afterlife due to fear of death but cannot find evidence for such an afterlife themselves, people and organisations will pop up to cater to this belief in various ways and the most &quot;believable&quot; offer will win out in the long term. This seems obviously true, though I had never considered it in these terms before. I wonder what the other obvious occurrences are (climate change beliefs and Ukrainian war propaganda seem like obvious examples) and&#x2F;or if there are any direct applications of this principle other than becoming a better propagandist.
评论 #30699377 未加载
评论 #30699466 未加载
评论 #30698116 未加载
bohabout 3 years ago
Rationalism took over in the mid-twentieth century and now it&#x27;s the lingua franca of pretty much any activity that requires resource allocation. Any idea you may have, regardless of how mundane or obvious, must be expressed in analytical&#x2F;economic terms. Have a qualitative aspect that can&#x27;t be measured? It doesn&#x27;t exist. Can&#x27;t predict the future? Pretend like you do and give us some numbers. Arbitrarily create numbers and make them grow. Find studies, regardless how dubious, to support your claims. It&#x27;s a trap everyone must abide by.<p>The fantasy is people analyzing data and making the right decision, the truth is people have their assumptions and then back into data to give their assumptions legitimacy. That&#x27;s the bread and butter of the rationalization market: legitimacy.
yamrzouabout 3 years ago
Overview by the author: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;danwilliamsphil&#x2F;status&#x2F;1500768915797991426" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;danwilliamsphil&#x2F;status&#x2F;15007689157979914...</a>
dalbasalabout 3 years ago
Ok so this is social-psychology in an economic framework. That is what it is, and I think we should view such articles as rhetoric rather than science.<p>That said... there are some good, pertinent ideas here.<p>From author on twitter:<p><i>Second, an influential idea in social science is that the main thing that is wrong with political media is misinformation or fake news. This idea is wrong. The share of misinformation in most people&#x27;s information diet is minimal.(11&#x2F;16)</i><p>Misinformation, and I think this is intuitive to observers of the current misinformation&#x2F;censorship dynamic is not really about misinformation or any kind of information. It&#x27;s much more about rhetoric, argumantal frames or &quot;rationalisations,&quot; where the author places emphasis.<p>Information (true or false) itself is like an crappy commodity market. It&#x27;s ubiquitous, evergreen , relatively vendor neutral, and too cheap to produce for profit.<p>Rhetoric otoh, has a fine market. It has a literal economic market and a social&#x2F;informal market.
评论 #30696782 未加载
ZeroGravitasabout 3 years ago
Is this actually saying anything new, except for putting it in the language of economics and markets?<p>How does this differ from say Hitler&#x27;s &quot;Big Lie&quot; or advertising or propaganda generally or 1984&#x27;s memory hole.<p>I&#x27;m not sure the weasel words around &quot;fake news&quot; are required. If someone is misinformed by their news source, are we really splitting hairs that it isn&#x27;t misinformation if they just don&#x27;t mention certain things because that&#x27;s not a false fact?<p>Wasn&#x27;t the whole point of Newspeak that you couldn&#x27;t mention or discuss certain ideas?
评论 #30707440 未加载