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The Line of Death (2017)

284 pointsby Natfanabout 3 years ago

12 comments

mholtabout 3 years ago
My masters thesis [1] was about ways browsers can help protect users from risks involving deception. We concluded that we can&#x27;t stop attackers from imitating or manipulating UI&#x2F;UX elements, but we can be clever about how we protect users by being more attentive to their interactions and more focused on subtle cues, rather than codified, absolute allow&#x2F;block lists.<p>We discussed about how most browser warnings currently fill the page below the line of death in a way that is easy for phishing sites to impersonate. The user can click &quot;Back to Safety&quot; only to be taken to the real phishing page.<p>One of the experiments we conducted was presenting browser warnings above the line of death by replacing security indicators with risk indicators, and even popping-out a warning explanation upon a risky interaction.<p>Overall, subjects reported that they felt safer when the browser alerted them to abnormalities, rather than simply showing them when they were &quot;secure&quot; or having the browser making absolute trust decisions for them by blocking access to a page with a big warning.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scholarsarchive.byu.edu&#x2F;etd&#x2F;7403&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;scholarsarchive.byu.edu&#x2F;etd&#x2F;7403&#x2F;</a>
miohtamaabout 3 years ago
See the related browser-in-a-browser attack:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30697329" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30697329</a><p>The trusted UI battle has been effectively lost. Or it was not much of a battle in the first place, as an average consumer trusts anything with a lock icon on it, as UX researchers found out in 00s - 10s. WebAuthn and passwordless trust flows are our best hope to stop phishcalypse.
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na85about 3 years ago
Seems to me a lot of this is possible because developers are lazy and want to shoehorn application delivery and runtime into a system originally designed for sharing documents.<p>Those same developers seem to heavily overlap with the group that loves to shit on FTP and DNS etc., because they were designed for a less adversarial internet. I&#x27;m not sure what to make of that cognitive dissonance.<p>But, maybe browsers as we know them should die and be replaced with something better.
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mooredsabout 3 years ago
&quot;Security UI is hard&quot;. Yup.<p>It combines a lot of different aspects that make UI (which is always hard) more difficult:<p>* Catastrophic implications, but rare (in the typical user&#x27;s experience). How often does the average user get phished or have their account taken over, compared to how often do they have to log in to Random App X to do their job?<p>* Can impede user&#x27;s job, even when done right.<p>* Competes with functional features, sometimes directly. Why is there now a full window API? Because it is useful.<p>* People who work in the space are experts and will notice things that typical users will not (the example the author gives about Vista&#x2F;XP)
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thrashhabout 3 years ago
Is the line of death actually a thing? I thought that users just trust everything that&#x27;s on the screen tbh<p>A &quot;line of death&quot; sounds like something only technical users would notice
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BenjiWiebeabout 3 years ago
Using a bookmarks toolbar not only saves you time accessing frequently-used sites, it also makes the line of death a lot clearer and makes it harder to fake notifications&#x2F;permissions popups.
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Etherlord87about 3 years ago
I&#x27;m working on a project that aims to give a lot of freedom for user-generated content, and I&#x27;ve been wondering for a while how to protect from the picture-in-picture attacks.<p>One way is to ban an entire color region around a particular color you choose for fields requesting passwords or doing other sensitive data. The problem with it is of course that it&#x27;s too big of a limitation.<p>But how about a pattern like yellow&#x2F;black checkerboard or stripes? This would require the parent to be able to analyze the child&#x27;s look, and whenever the security pattern would be detected, it would display some kind of a warning about the content being similar to a secured input without actually being the secured input...
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watersbabout 3 years ago
Netscape Navigator 4.0 (NS4) would let a page open new browser windows, but if you wanted to hide the Navigator UI (the stuff above &quot;The Line of Death&quot; in this article), you needed to sign your scripts with your developer certificate.<p>The Netscape Security Team was worried about UI spoofing, the browser-in-a-browser attack. - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30722033" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30722033</a><p>Alas, they need not have bothered. Users didn&#x27;t notice fakes, and got mad if a web application was blocked. The whole apparatus to support public-key certification of web elements was pulled in later versions of Netscape.<p>25 years later, and essentially no one thinks about bad guys before dutifully typing their password.<p>Microsoft Windows tried. Windows shows a distinctive, full screen alert if you want to do something with elevated priveleges. Windows supports custom security policies and signed PowerShell scripts.<p>But the only way to prevent users from leaking authentication is to require auth that can&#x27;t pass over a network. 2FA with local (not remote) physical token.
LordDragonfangabout 3 years ago
See also, when this was first posted:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13400291" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=13400291</a> - Jan 2017 (106 comments)
account-5about 3 years ago
Can this not be mitigated by paying attention and having browser add-on buttons on the main interface or a non-default config for the window? I see the bookmark bar has been mentioned.<p>I think this likely less affects me as I use Linux and Firefox. The window manager on my distro supersedes Firefox&#x27;s, so if window in widow happened it would look weird because no window manager.
IshKebababout 3 years ago
Funny that he clearly has a lot of insight into secure UI design but <i>still</i> thought that some kind of &quot;trustbadge&quot; would help with full screen web pages.
moltkeabout 3 years ago
Does Elinks have a line of death? Is it possible to recreate its dialogs (even on a totally static page?)
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