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Why FSF Founder Richard Stallman is Wrong on Steve Jobs

116 pointsby diegogomesover 13 years ago

38 comments

tmhedbergover 13 years ago
Stallman is admittedly rather tactless, particularly in his recent comment about Jobs. To him, there is no freedom but absolute freedom; any compromise whatsoever is unacceptable, and he will not sugar-coat his opinions to make them more palatable to those that don't think the same way that he does. That is undoubtedly a shortcoming on his part.<p>Still, I think that if you can look past his poor social graces, the man makes some very valid points. Time and time again, he issues statements that draw eye rolls and sneers, only to be vindicated later when his seemingly over-dramatic predictions actually come to pass.<p>Dislike the man if you must. Criticize his poor diplomatic communication skills. But his role in our technological ecosystem is vital, and I for one am glad he's around.
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redthrowawayover 13 years ago
Free Software truly does deserve better than RMS. The guy is just about the least-suited person to being a spokesman (or any public figure) I've seen. As a hacker and behind-the-scenes guy, sure. But his complete lack of tact, social skills, and presentability makes him more harmful than helpful as a figurehead.
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y0ghur7_xxxover 13 years ago
"I'm not glad he's dead, but I'm glad he's gone."<p>This means to me that Stallman is glad that Jobs is no more a malign influence on people's computing.<p><i>But</i> he is not glad that he is dead.<p>That is <i>exactly</i> the same thing the poster says about Stallman:<p>"While I'd love it if Stallman would retire, or at the very least improve his social skills, I hope he lives to be 120. As long as he's alive, there's hope he might change. I'd never be glad that he's gone. And I'm certainly not glad that Steve is."<p>Saying that you'd love it if Stallman would retire means that you would be glad if he's gone.
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parfeover 13 years ago
I don't see people reacting as harshly if it was someone like Jack Valenti that RMS said some unkind posthumous words about. Steve Jobs did embody the lock down of computing. I'd say Valenti and Jobs belong to the same category of protecting the consumer from perceived evil through benevolent restriction.<p>I haven't seen anyone claiming Stallman is wrong. Just that he was a jerk about the death of a revered CEO who gets worshiped as a tech prophet. Jobs oversaw some great advances in the consumer computing market. That does not make him immune to criticism and especially not immune to true criticism.<p><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Valenti" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Valenti</a>
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forgottenpaswrdover 13 years ago
Stallman, I had this man as a host in my house in Spain as part of a free software convention many years ago and I could tell you that he is one of the worst mannered person I had met in person, and that conclusion was shared with the entire LUG that had to organize it.<p>I appreciate what he has done with the GPL, but when speaking he could do a disservice for the community.<p>Something as simple as talking about "Linux" will make him crazy, as he will force you in a rude way to use GNU BEFORE Linux, always despising what Linux Towards made(and this thing called Hurd was going to be way better). As he talked it become obvious that he saw his role as more important than everybody else.<p>He has "command and control", "you are with me or against me" mentality.
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cgopalanover 13 years ago
I have always been surprised as to why people think its offensive to talk ill of someone just because the person is dead. Death does not change character. If a person could be criticized for something when he was alive, he should not be immune to that after death.<p>I am definitely not saying that Steve Jobs was a jerk. I admire the man. But it seems insensible when the OP says it "offends common decency".<p>Also, IMHO, Stallman wasn't reckless about choosing his words. He says, he's not glad he's dead (referring to the fact that wishing death upon someone is not good), but he's glad he's gone (referring here to Jobs as a symbol of antithesis of the free software movement).<p>The OP offers an alternate version of what Stallman could have said. Its says:<p>"I didn't share Steve Jobs' vision of computing, and I wish he'd chosen to embrace free software. I'm very sorry that he's gone and we've lost the opportunity to have that conversation. My sympathies are with his family at this time."<p>When a person says something, it embodies his style and personality. Stallman shouldnt have to say something that is not his style. Also "I am very sorry he's gone and we've lost the opportunity to have that conversation" indicates that Stallman wanted to engage Jobs in conversation. Who knows? Maybe Stallman doesnt want to keep engaging in conversation. Maybe he views it as a tough battle and is sincerely relieved that people against the fsf philosophy dont exist anymore. If someone with similar beliefs dies tomorrow, he will count it as one more step towards progress.<p>There are very few people in the world who do not offer veiled opinions. Stallman seems to be one of them. Let us not tell him what he needs to say - but instead think about why he said it.
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jrockwayover 13 years ago
I don't think Stallman did anything wrong. Jobs undeniably set back the Free Software community by making really good software that people were willing to trade their freedom for. For most people, it doesn't make a difference whether or not something is free, so these people happily accepted phones that couldn't run Unapproved software and OSes that contain code specifically to prevent you from tracing certain pieces of software that send information about your computer back to Apple.<p>This is counter to everything that Stallman has spent his life on, so he says, "I'm glad Jobs isn't around anymore, because he was really good at fucking my movement over".
ghshephardover 13 years ago
I'm probably the hugest fan of Apple, and Jobs there is. I grew up on Macintoshes, own one of every iPhone and iPad. Five Apple Laptops in 11 years (three on my bed right now.)<p>But, I also love Open Software, and, from Stallman's perspective, I can see why Steve Jobs and his higher and higher walled gardens was seen as a threat to the Open Source movement.<p>Now, as for me - I don't really care, because I _love_ my iPhone4, my Macbook Air, and Terminal.App is my constant companion.<p>All in all I thought Stallman's response was as respectable and restrained as it could be for someone with his unflinching posture.
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lallysinghover 13 years ago
Enough. Stallman's not /the/ leader of Free Software. He can't be, because he doesn't lead.<p>He's a rude jackass that wrote some code and few licenses. He works on finding new ways to be a jackass to get attention.<p>In ideas and code, sure, he's contributed a lot. But he's no leader. That's something different.
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16sover 13 years ago
He's entitled to his opinion. He's a legend himself, just not as widely appreciated as Mr. Jobs was.
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AlfaWolphover 13 years ago
Most people who've made an impact on society at any scale are free to have their legacy examined and criticized when they die. This can hopefully be done without criticizing the person behind the legacy. For instance, Hitchens wrote a scathing piece on the legacy of Reagan right after he passed. But people who make impacts on our world are often so married to their legacies that it is difficult to criticize that legacy without criticizing the person. Steve Jobs is one of those whose legacy is indistinguishable from himself partly because he led an intensely private life. From reading Stallman's comments, I found nothing that specifically mentioned the man, only his methods. I think that's perfectly okay. I can only guess that most people who find fault in his words are probably just caught up in the emotions produced from seeing one of the largest figures in our time move on in front of our eyes. So I've got to call RRW out on this. They posted this as the usual linkbait we're all accustomed to. (i.e. Manufactured outrage for attention.)
kragenover 13 years ago
People are complaining a lot that Stallman isn't complying with the social norm that one does not speak ill of the dead. (And of course there are people who are personally offended because they identify with Steve Jobs and put Apple stickers on their car, which is just kind of pathetic. We'll leave them to one side.) Some of them go so far as to argue that Stallman would be more effective if he complied with those social norms, and that the FSF would be more effective if it had a spokesperson who complied with social norms.<p>The point that they're missing is that Stallman is effective at what he does precisely <i>because</i> he violates social norms — much like Steve Jobs. Let me tell a story.<p>On the 9th of September of this year, I was at the Conferencia Internacional de Software Libre here in Buenos Aires. Partido Justicialista, the ruling party of Argentina, has decided that free software is a good idea, and has been trying to promote it. One of the things that they're doing is a program called Conectar Igualdad ("Connecting Equality"), in which they're distributing one netbook to every public high school student in the country, 1.7 million so far, dual-booting with Linux and Windows, bought with the country's recently-renationalized pension funds.<p>Another of the things they did was that they organized this conference, last year and this year, which was hosted by the National Library. Last year they had Jon "maddog" Hall give the keynote, and he talked about this thin-client internet-access project that he's been putting together with a bunch of folks in Brazil, which really sounds pretty awesome. This year they had Stallman give the keynote instead, and the auditorium was so crowded that I couldn't get in far enough to see him, so I hung out in the library's café instead. (This is Argentina; cafés are a necessity of civilized life, so there is one in the library.)<p>So I didn't see the talk, and I didn't even see Stallman on his way out, but boy, did I hear about it afterwards in the café. Stallman apparently spent quite a bit of time ripping up the Conectar Igualdad program, because of the dual-booting, because of the lack of support for kids actually running Linux, because of the lack of source code for the modified Linux kernel that was actually running on the machines, and for other reasons.<p>A person who obeyed social norms would not have considered doing this. After all, he was the guest of the Argentine government, who had invited him to come speak at this conference in order to reinforce their appearance of commitment to free software. Instead, he accepted the invitation and then spent his time shredding their appearance of commitment to free software. What a socially incompetent loser, eh?<p>A week later I was at a party, and I happened to talk to a woman who works for Conectar Igualdad. She brought up Stallman's speech and said how she had been so happy about it, because he had said all the things that she had been unhappy about but hadn't been able to bring up. And apparently now there are meetings inside Conectar Igualdad to fix the problems that Stallman so publicly criticized.<p>Stallman is what is colloquially known as an asshole. He has very little concern for other people's feelings or for social norms. And it's that very unbending nature that makes him an effective change agent. Deferring to social norms would cripple him.<p>On the other hand, if he were at least <i>aware</i> of the feelings of other people, perhaps he could be leading a much more effective organization, instead of alienating even most of his closest friends over the years.
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karamazovover 13 years ago
Apple products are not forced on anyone. Anyone interested in free software can buy whatever they like and run whatever they want; those interested in the advantages (both actual and perceived) of Apple products can get Macs, iPads, and iPhones. This is called freedom of choice; for someone so dedicated to freedom of software, it's surprising that RMS doesn't respect it.
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monochromaticover 13 years ago
&#62; Richard Stallman is putting his feet firmly in his mouth<p>Is that a veiled reference to him eating the toe jam?
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Mithrandirover 13 years ago
I'm slightly disappointed that RMS said this, but I'm not altogether surprised. RMS is, as others on this and the other thread have mentioned, someone who is not big on comprise. He has done a lot for computing (GNU, Emacs, GPL) but Jobs also did a lot for computing and was certainly more well known then RMS; to RMS, that good Jobs did is negated by whatever 'bad' he did (proprietary software, etc.)<p>Whatever non-free/non-open source Jobs did is up for debate on whether that's 'bad' or not, but that would still not wipe out any good. Of course, RMS is perfectly entitled to his opinion, but as he <i>is</i> the spokesperson for the FSF he could be a bit more diplomatic without going as far as saying 'Apple software is fine with us.' Something like 'Although Apple restricted user rights with proprietary software and DRM in its products, Mr. Jobs was one of the first to popularize personal computing and certainly had an impact on the tech world. My condolences to his family.' or similar would have looked a helluva lot better than what he wrote. Appearances to some degree do matter for the FSF right now<p>Even if you disagree that Jobs had any profound or otherwise impact on technology, he did just die. Have a bit more respect for his friends and family.
Tichyover 13 years ago
I despise it if people try to use somebodies death to exert power over other people. This author just wants to control RMS and uses Steve Jobs to have a go at him.
vascoover 13 years ago
"He manages to offend common decency (...) and insult millions of Apple users simultaneously."<p>I highly doubt that common decency as an abstract concept feels much offended. And even if it did, I am sure it would be able to sleep at night. As to Apple users, if they feel offended by the insult, I would advise them to watch this little clip <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cycXuYzmzNg</a>
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smoyerover 13 years ago
Great article ... follow the HN conversation here: <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3083349" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3083349</a>
burkeover 13 years ago
That was actually surprisingly tactful for RMS. It barely came across as offensive.
shipitover 13 years ago
Richard Stallman and Steve Jobs is the same personality. Stallman's belief is around intellectual expression as free software and Jobs' was design for culture. In the pursuit of their ideals, both have demonstrated similar zeal and reputation for offending people. We overlook Steve Jobs' quirks because we cherish the beautiful products from Cupertino and we seek to absorb that into our own process. As a culture, very few actually care for emacs or gcc. In an alternate universe, Stallman's Lisp-ness would be worshipped and aesthetics would be relegated to vanity.
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jboothover 13 years ago
I love how these threads are always full of people saying "Oh, well I agree with the guy in general, but look at that ridiculous beard he has!".<p>And then we talk about the beard for 500 words.
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runjakeover 13 years ago
I might argue that Mac OS X has been a gateway "drug" to Free Software/Open Source for many who would otherwise be on Windows (which isn't a slight against Windows, but much of the most popular OSS software is at home on *NIX).
gparkeover 13 years ago
I think RMS forgets what is important about freedom. As an iOS developer, the widespread adoption of iOS devices has allowed me to follow my own path, work on what I love, and have the chance to see my dreams become reality. If that isn't freedom, I don't know what is. Apple's success implies the market wants a controlled user experience. If that means I have to use 'jailed' software to buy my own freedom, it is a small price to pay.
wglbover 13 years ago
From the famous 2005 Commencement Address: <i>And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.</i><p>Seems to be what Stallman is doing.
quellhorstover 13 years ago
I don't pay attention to people like RMS who eat stuff off their feet. <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v=I25UeVXrEHQ#t=111s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v...</a>
mattbeeover 13 years ago
I rather agreed, but only because I think Stallman's achievements trump Jobs' in the long run - <a href="http://matthewblo.ch/34/keep-it-classy-richard-stallman/" rel="nofollow">http://matthewblo.ch/34/keep-it-classy-richard-stallman/</a>
mcfunleyover 13 years ago
We have been passing a douchey-looking book called "How to Make it in Software" around work as a joke for the last few days. On page 79 there is a picture of RMS sitting in a chair, mouth agape, in bare feet, with both hands on his dick.
sekover 13 years ago
He is a radical, he thinks in absolutes. We need these people to get something started because their motivation comes from seeing something black and white. The sad thing is just, that these people often die unhappy.
jbpover 13 years ago
How many people support(ed) the freedom of artists to draw Allah? It is just non-sense that you'll be offended by someone unless you allow yourself to be offended. You don't like the comment, you ignore.
oztenover 13 years ago
Don't feed the trolls.
keeranover 13 years ago
&#62; We can only hope his successors, as they attempt to carry on his legacy, will be less effective.<p>I read this as a thinly veiled tribute.
serge2kover 13 years ago
&#62; I'm very sorry that he's gone followed by &#62; There's no need to pretend that Stallman liked Jobs<p>He said what he meant.
dos1over 13 years ago
"But I see no argument whatsoever here to persuade Jobs' fans that they should be considering free software. Just a petty expression of relief that a rival is no longer available to compete with Stallman's cause."<p>To me this hit the nail on the head. As far as I can tell, Stallman was just trying to be as inflammatory as possible. There was certainly a more tactful way for Richard to express his opinion on the matter, and he's done nothing but hinder his own cause with his vitriol.
hackermomover 13 years ago
Day by day, statement after statement, he sounds more and more like a religious fundamentalist nut. Sigh...
maximusprimeover 13 years ago
Is there a distribution of Linux that has removed all of the Gnu stuff and anything connected to Stallman? I think there would be quite a lot of value in that personally.
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seven_stonesover 13 years ago
The article doesn't make a case for Stallman being <i>wrong</i>, but merely for being "offensive".
fredDouglassover 13 years ago
when you create the worlds de facto compiler, debugger and maybe the world's most powerful text editor, you can say whatever you want.
diegogomesover 13 years ago
Stallman is nuts -&#62; <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3083536" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3083536</a>
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