It's crazy that me jailbreaking a device voids its warranty, but companies can make these kinds of updates without any real consequence.<p>Customers should have the right to return a device any time if they don't like a particular update to the product. I know it's drastic, but if companies can turn what should be a basic device into an amorphous system that starts serving ads without the end-users consent after purchase, that should constitute a material change to the end product that was not appropriately advertised.<p>This is the exact kind of thing that consumer protection laws should be able to cover.
> "Jump Ads represent yet another step in VIZIO’s ongoing mission to unify the smart TV experience with features that benefit viewers, content providers and advertisers," said Adam Bergman, VP of sales, Vizio Ads.<p>What kind of soulless automaton can write corp-speak garbage like this?<p>I wonder what Adam Bergman would think if his dentist took a piss in his mouth and then charged him for “industry-leading oral antiseptics”.
Sadly it's a logical and inevitable consequence of giving up control over our technology.<p>I think the answer has to be, simply never buy a TV that you wouldn't be completely satisfied with as a dumb HDMI display. Cos even if it's not abuse like this, eventually the built in functionality <i>will</i> break, or become too insecure to keep active on your network.<p>In fact it goes for just about any appliance these days: whether it's your fridge, microwave, dryer, doorbell or anything else, if it doesn't have a "dumb" offline mode where you are still completely happy with what it does, don't buy it.
I used to like Visio as they were a pretty straightforward company selling TVs at better prices than Samsung and Sony. They were simple and cheap and disrupted established players.<p>This is ridiculous and is so anti-user. I hope a new upstart company comes along to just sell simple TVs.
There are a lot of comments here that appear to be about something other than the specific ad this article is reporting on. This isn't like when Roku was having hovering ads over a live TV broadcast for a product ad that finished.<p>The ad being tested in the linked article is an interactive ad by Fox TV when the viewer is done watching a specific Fox TV show and the end credits are rolling letting viewers know they can watch additional episodes of that show within the FOXNOW app on their smart TV.
Too many of the responses to this article have focused on jail breaking IMO - we should be focused instead on the actual problem of the advertising being injected and the surveillance being used to target ads.<p>TVs have a design life of three years and often ship design changes during different manufacturing runs, so jail breaking every variation of every device when the manufacturer is potentially working against you isn’t feasible. It’s a small percentage of the population that could do any one model of one device.<p>I’d also suggest dropping “smart TVs” in favor of monitors and a sound bar might be a an option, however Roku already took it to the next level by implementing a similar scheme on their devices. If Amazon, Google, and Apple followed then you’d just be in the same situation again. So again IMO better to attack the problem in general rather then a particular make or model.
I was pretty much committed to never buying a Vizio product just based on my experience with their quality and other reports about their "smart" embedded software, but this pretty much seals it. Samsung has been getting pretty bold here too.<p>I really prefer the free market to correct this kind of abuse, but I'm not sure how that works when they're all doing it. Theoretically everyone could just stop buying TVs but that's not going to happen. So it's just death by a thousand papercuts (abuses) I guess. Very sad.
I've never owned anything but a dumb TV so excuse what probably is a dumb question but if you buy a smart TV is there a reason you have to use the "smart" features? Why not just never connect it to the network? (Then use an external streaming box and treat it as a dumb tv.)
Companies go where the money is, this is unfortunately where the money is.<p>Samsung sells "commercial signage displays" which are kind of dumb TVs. The BE55T-H for example is 55in 4k for $600, stripped down OS / basically just HDMI in. BE65T-H is 65in for $800.<p>They're also intended for always-on semi-static content from what I understand, which is nice.
Key takeaway from this stuff: don't connect your TV to the internet.<p>Just get a stupid Roku stick, Amazon Stick, Apple TV, whatever.<p>It's obviously not right that they're doing this, but the solution is very simple and probably a better experience anyway.
Vizio are also being sued for ripping off the Linux kernel and not complying with the GPL license.<p><a href="https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html" rel="nofollow">https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html</a>
Well, good thing my Vizio is firewalled off from anything and everything. So it shall remain. It won't get any firmware updates.<p>Funny how Vizio already got fined for almost exactly this. But now it's back as a ""feature"" for advertising.
To me, the scariest part is that the TV is monitoring what you’re watching. If it recognizes it and has an ad for it, it will display the ad. But in order to do that, it first has to figure out what you’re watching.<p>That just seems super creepy.
I have a couple of cheap, super huge Walmart black friday-type budget TVs in my house (including Visio). I would <i>never</i> hook these up directly to the Internet, and use a set-top device (Xbox, Roku, AppleTV, iPad, etc.) Never had a negative experience in the last at least 10 TVs I’ve bought. I realize doing it this way adds cost, but I’ve never wanted the lackluster experience these cheap Android-based experiences offer.
> <i>Vizio's Jump Ads initiative launches in beta meaning that you as a Vizio TV owner still have time to voice your concerns.</i><p>You "still have time to voice your concerns" when you contact the appropriate government officials, the reseller who sold you the TV, etc.<p>Someone trying to spy on you and defraud you doesn't get to set the rules for when you're allowed to object.
Ads are one of the very first things I imagine when hearing about "Smart TVs". That and slow, unresponsive, buggy menus which are worse than Win9x or Windows XP on a 15 year old PC with K-Lite Codec Pack.
I bought a TV hat for one of my Raspberry Pi 3B+. I connected it to my TV antenna on the roof, installed tvheadend (and cursed a little bit the UX but it's mostly a do it once and forget thing), installed TVH Client on my phone and tablet. I ended up with smart devices that can do everything a smart TV can do except that I can bring them around my home and garden (a plus) and have a smaller screen and sometimes worse audio (cons). I don't have ads unless I'm watching free to air TV, because of Blockada. It works as a radio too because basically every radio is also on DVBT here. I'm using VLC as player so I can do popup player (over any app) or play as audio and turn off the screen. If I want a larger screen and I'm in the living room I can turn on my TV. I'm not doing it very often even when I'm in the living room. A 10" tablet at an arm lenght is not much smaller than a TV far away on the wall.
I'm pretty sure, in the USA, the FCC and other agencies would frown on a banner ad that covers up the EAS (Emergency Alert System) crawl.<p>Imagine a hearing impaired person not seeing a message that a tornado is approaching their immediate area.<p>Hopefully it's just a poor attempt at an April Fool's joke, and not real.
"Jump Ads represent yet another step in VIZIO’s ongoing mission to unify the smart TV experience with features that benefit viewers, content providers and advertisers," said Adam Bergman, VP of sales, Vizio Ads."<p>Wow at that.<p>For one thing, getting prime time coverage of ads, w/o having to pay networks is pretty amazing but how it's done (Just the spin of it all) is just pure evil and that spin - I don't think any ads benefit viewers though.
The most recent TV that I hung on a wall in my house was actually a 42" 4k computer monitor with an external media device and a Bluetooth soundbar. I want absolutely no "interactive media center" stuff on the display itself. Just let me set the resolution, refresh rate, and color calibration, then anything relating to what media shows up on the display is under the complete control of whatever I plug into it.
Does anyone know how much would be the BOM for a <i>dumb</i> TV with a good 4K OLED panel?<p>I'm starting to think that if creating a crowdsale of a dumb tv panel might be a profitable project.
This video[0] from 2021 claims that Google TV gives users the option to switch off all smart features and use it as a dumb TV. Looks like Sony and TCL are making models with Google TV[1].<p>However, if past is prologue then they will probably be off the market in a year.<p>0 - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwYPO_SN0C0" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VwYPO_SN0C0</a><p>1 - <a href="https://www.bestbuy.com/site/google/learn-about-google-tv/pcmcat1635268106342.c?id=pcmcat1635268106342" rel="nofollow">https://www.bestbuy.com/site/google/learn-about-google-tv/pc...</a>
I had high hopes for Vizio. We have owned three of them. The latest one, purchased a few years back, was $2,000 US. I did not buy their lowest price model.<p>Well, the thing is buggy as hell. It can't connect to the network (wired or WiFi) several times per month. Cycling power does not fix it. The only reliable solution I found is to unplug the ethernet cable, and plug it back in.<p>When it does come back, it will do weird things. For example, when you last turned it off the volume was set to 7 (out of 100). If you have to the thing to get it to connect to the network it will, every few times, blast you at 100% volume even though the volume bar says 5, 7, 15, whatever. You have to jump on the remote and click it down. Just one click at it is back to normal volume.<p>And then there's all the garbage on the home screen. I want none of it. I just want the few services we are subscribed to and icons for the input connected to the external PC, playstation and WII. That's it. Just a handful of icons would do. Instead, my $2,000 bought me a circus act every single time I turn on the TV.<p>I really want to not buy a Vizio ever again. And then you realize they are all the same. Not sure what to do other than, as they say in the movies, "science the shit out of it" and design a full replacement main board for the thing and toss their electronics and software in the trash.
There are dumb TV alternates, such as the ones mentioned in this thread, and there are manufacturers which are better in this regard.<p>If people are going to prioritize cost while making their purchase decision, it is obvious that the manufacturers are going to see how much they can push.<p>If people stop buying such TVs, they will stop. So, stop buying such TVs.
I have been without a tv for a year because I cannot find a not smart display and I refuse to invite this sort of shenanigans into my home.<p>No thanks not for me. Maybe I'll get a projector.
If they spent the same amount of time and attention on their UI as they do on ads, maybe my 3.5 yo TV wouldn't take 3 seconds to register a button press on the remote.
I wonder how many buyers will regret that purchase…<p>It’s amazing to me that anyone would knowingly be ok with their tv spying on what content is being showed to serve ads, somethings that literally no-one except advertisers asked for.<p>The privacy implication of these systems is huge. Profiles about viewing habits can tell a lot about someone’s political and religious affiliations.<p>Having nebulous third parties manage these databases, probably badly, risking leaks, providing ad and government agencies yet another intimate way to monitor and profile citizens…<p>I hope some government body like maybe some EU body is going to highlight the risks these technologies pose to all of us.<p>Samsung does the same, and it seems the race is on for manufacturers to provide these ‘features’ as a way to remain competitive and get additional revenue streams.
If anyone is looking for an alternative:<p>I bought a Sony Bravia BZ40H Digital Signage Display. It does have Google's Android TV crap but unlike consumer TVs I refused the agreement when asked and the TV works perfectly fine without talking to any Google services or spying on us even though it is connected to the network (I check its traffic). It also has an API, though I haven't made use of it yet. We use it as a dumb monitor to an AppleTV and so far it has worked OK. It doesn't pop anything onto the screen - that would detract from its use as digital signage after all :)<p>I went with this model because I specifically wanted a "Digital Signage" display that had a reasonably good panel (a lot of them are garbage).
This is click bait ,it is not an ad. You can think like notification, where you are prompted for opening the app , based on end credits on actual video which is used as an ad.<p>This is nothing new , second screen technology is now 10 years old. There are multiple ways<p>1. Gen 1 ,was more like Use audio cues from TV with phone or remote mic picking up for showing relevant ads
2. Gen 2 ,Use ACR (automatic content recognition ) to identify what you are watching and do ad analytics or present ads/ notification to devices using same wifi/login etc.<p>To escape from any of these , you need to disable ACR and smart recommendations in Roku, LG, Samsung , Vizio, Fire tv etc.. or buy a dumb Tv.<p>Almost all smart tv have one or more ACRs. They do a screengrab or audio grab every few seconds and send to check fingerprint to identify what’s watched. Also every video you watch from streaming platforms have tracking Id inside from Nielsen Gracenote or something similar and reports back the data as you watch them along with information of which devices it’s being watched on.<p>So technically it can identify your video that’s being played on tv - is from any pirated website or torrent. HDMI CEC also can coordinate to recognize if it was played from a real Blu-ray or not. Might be able escape if you go HDMI without CEC on smart tv, or go to same argument buy Dumb TV.<p>Put it this way , As long as you are using internet connected devices/TV , you are not escaping tracking what you are watching.
Isn't there a pretty obvious middle ground for broadcasters, advertisers and TV manufacturers to monetize? Smart TVs can track watching behavior and use it to better target ads placed into ad slots already in the broadcast. It's exactly what YouTube and most streaming audio does. Networks can broadcast shows with markers instead of baked-in ads. TVs can request appropriate length ads based on viewing and get more money per slot without viewers seeing more ads.
As somebody that owns a Roku TV, I’m hoping that somebody releases some software to disable this sort of stuff altogether. This is absolutely fucking bullshit.
I'm sure you all stand ready to make slippery slope arguments, but an inducement at the end of a live TV broadcast for the user to continue watching the same series by other means does not strike me as either novel or objectionable. <i>All</i> streaming services will prompt you to continue watching the next installment of serialized content at the end. How is this actually different from that?
Not as bad but still upsetting is the Google TV experience. I got a "top of the line Sony 65 A90J" a few months ago. It has Google TV. Turn it on and the screen is covered with ads for movies and TB shows. There's no way to turn them off except to pick "Basic Mode". If you pick "Basic Mode" then you are not allowed to use the Play Store and further, the "home" screen is just a large ad for "Google TV, ... sign in with Google to get apps etc...."<p>You can still slide load but they clearly want to be able to spy on you and shovel ads in your face. This for a $3k TV I paid for. It's as bad as Windows 11.<p>Further, Sony also wants to spy on you via some service who's name I forgot. AFAIK you can opt out (well, they ask you to agree with a bunch of stuff when you first turn on the TV and I didn't)<p>It's infuriating but I don't know where you can get any TV with high end features that doesn't have all the smart TV crap. You can get industrial displays but they aren't top end panels.
Am I the only one who read the article?<p>First: It's from April 1.<p>Second: What's described is not Vizio inserting their own ads wherever they feel like. It's a way for the <i>network</i> to show interactive ads in <i>their</i> ad breaks, instead of the usual "dead video".<p>So, assuming this is not an April Fools thing, the viewer doesn't get more ads, the ads they get are sometimes interactive.
This is why my TV’s don’t connect to the internet, period. Have bought 2 Samsung TVs over last 12 months and neither has ever been connected to the internet. The menu regularly complains about it but I’ve learned to ignore that because my TV does one thing, go to source my receiver is plugged into and let the receiver do the rest.
See also:<p>Root My TV: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29938520" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=29938520</a><p>PiHole:
<a href="https://pi-hole.net/" rel="nofollow">https://pi-hole.net/</a>
Haven’t there been banner ads at the bottom of shows for over a decade now or more?<p>Usually not from the tv maker, but still a big banner at the bottom with a cheesy animation of the sitcom star or whatever?
Does this mean it can identify the content being delivered over HDMI ? Not sure if the live TV example here is through their own internal tuner or using a cable box
This is one of the reasons why I always advocate never using the vendor software on a device and always replacing it with a new OS of your own choosing.<p>Note of course that even common Linux distributions have privacy issues, here are the ones that we knows about for Debian:<p><a href="https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues" rel="nofollow">https://wiki.debian.org/PrivacyIssues</a>
No tv of mine is ever connecting to the internet. I have a roku which is connected to a network level block list. The microwave/oven did a silent update and now my oven refuses to turn off and ignores the smart keypress.<p>No more hidden updates for me or my family. Fight and complain to the dealer. Returned tvs is how we get these marketing morons and douche nozzles to shutup
That sounds completely unacceptable plus like an easy way to just have all customers disconnect their TVs and just use a third party device like chromecast for watching anything.<p>Samsung does this nowadays too but at least they show ads in g their own content (they broadcast some TV channels) which I think is fine. I can choose to just not watch their content.
This is little misleading ,it is not a banner ad. You can think like notification, where you are prompted for opening the app , based on end credits on actual video which is used as an ad.<p>This is nothing new , second screen technology is now 10 years old. There are multiple ways<p>1. Gen 1 ,was more like Use audio cues from TV with phone or remote mic picking up for showing relevant ads
2. Gen 2 ,Use ACR (automatic content recognition ) to identify what you are watching and do ad analytics or present ads/ notification to devices using same wifi/login etc. It can even present with a add to shopping cart button on tv or phone , while an ad is playing.<p>To escape from any of these , you need to disable ACR and smart recommendations in Roku, LG, Samsung , Vizio, Fire tv etc.. or buy a dumb Tv.<p>Almost all smart tv have one or more ACRs. They do a screengrab or audio grab every few seconds and send to check fingerprint to identify what’s watched. Also almost every video you watch on TV has tracking Id inside from Nielsen Gracenote or something similar and reports back the data as you watch them along with information of which devices it’s being watched on.<p>So technically they have the capability to identify your video that’s being played on tv - is from any pirated website or torrent. HDMI CEC also can coordinate to recognize if it was played from a real Blu-ray or not. Might be able escape if you go HDMI without CEC on smart tv, or go to same argument buy Dumb TV.<p>Put it this way , As long as you are using internet connected devices/TV , you are not escaping being tracked of what you are watching.
So let me get this straight.<p>We now have TVs that have cameras built in.<p>We now have TVs that display ads without our consent.<p>When do we get the TVs that cannot be turned off?<p>Big Brother awaits.
I predict all the usual network TV overlay ads will eventually turn into this. Why put a fixed banner saying "don't forget to catch a new episode of The Voice at 9pm!" during a show when you can make it interactive/clickable and tailor it to specific demographics based on the TV watching patterns?
Not mine. I have a "dumb" 1080p Vizio TV. It was quite budget at the time I bought it, 5 or so years ago. But it does everything I need it for quite well, no problems.<p>I'd like to upgrade to a TV with 4K and HDR eventually but guessing it won't be that easy unless I use a monitor instead.
IMO automatic content recognition, and indeed any attempt by a TV to recognize or react to content or anything a user says or does, without GDPR-style genuine consent, should be outright illegal. Possibly even a felony. (Wiretapping, anyone?)<p>Fine print should not be able to excuse this.
This remind me of this framework's blog post: <a href="https://frame.work/blog/in-defense-of-dumb-tvs" rel="nofollow">https://frame.work/blog/in-defense-of-dumb-tvs</a><p>I wish they made themselves dumb tvs, it seems to be a good fit for their business.
IANAL but in the USA this might be worth pursuing restitution for the cost of the TV in a small claims court and publicizing it. If a few hundred or few thousand people all did this in a coordinated fashion (via a discord or subreddit) that might be enough to have an effect.
Maybe this will get better if you get "Right to Modify" under copyleft GPLv2: <a href="https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html" rel="nofollow">https://sfconservancy.org/copyleft-compliance/vizio.html</a>
The display of the banner ads is more visible, but the privacy implications are a bigger issue, since the ads seem to be tailored to the content you're watching.<p>If they do this in countries covered with reasonable privacy laws (e.g. the EU), go directly to regulators.
Seems like nobody is talking about the unbearable quality of Vizio TVs.<p>I got one for free, and I regret it.<p>Navigating the menus is painfully slow. After a few weeks, it started losing about 1-3 scan lines per week. It's unusable at this point, only about 18 months old.
Isn’t this illegal in some way. If I’m buying the product as advertised and suddenly it does something that I don’t want it to—something that I could not have know at the time of purchase—it is then no longer the product I paid for?
Run a pihole on your network, block updates and block ads while still enjoying your apps. Adam Bergman, Vizio Ad peddler, is easily reachable on the internet if you want to tell him how you feel about smart tv's and ads.
I own two Vizio TVs, they should be <i>never</i> connected to the net. Their antennas should be castrated. Vizio is famous for spying on users and making 1/2 of their revenue from data and ads.
In the last 6 months Vizio's stock price has fallen from ~$20 a share to Friday's close of $9.06. They'll get more from progressively fewer until they have nothing at all.
The best way to avoid this:<p>Nvidia Shield + "Console Gaming Monitor" (from e.g. Gigabyte, LG, etc)<p>Yes it's more expensive, but that's how much they'd make from you with ads.
Moved on from my Vizio to an LG recently. The Vizio software seemed to have so many issues - and you never knew when they'd push an update that breaks stuff.
They're referring to these ads as "features that benefit viewers"?<p>Oh hell no. I will never, ever, ever buy any product from any company who does this kind of bullshit. Are you listening, Vizio? I mean forever. I'd rather go buy a 40-year-old tube TV than deal with this.
I always wonder about these things; at least dozens – if not hundreds – of people were involved developing this: managers, designers, programmers, marketing, that sales guy with his ridiculous "features that benefit viewers" piece of spin, etc.<p>And no one seemed to have thought "wait, I'm being a complete cunt here – every user who will have this 'feature' inflicted upon will hate it!"<p>Sorry-but-not-sorry for the strong language, but I've taken to hold people individually responsible for this kind of stuff. Excepting people in social/financial circumstances where they don't <i>really</i> have a choice, if you're doing this kind of stuff then you're just being a gigantic twat. These people are all fairly well paid, so none of this "just doing muh job" nonsense.<p>I just don't understand how people can do this kind of thing – I'm not <i>surprised</i> because I've seen it many times before, I just don't understand it.
Consumers tolerating this and just trying to block the ads locally in their house — this is like ignoring the fact that the manufacturer has stuck a huge sex toy in the center of your TV, and wrapping it with a napkin to continue watching.