Impressions from a first-time Mac user

360 pointsby loganmarchioneabout 3 years ago

138 comments

Despite the warning, I didn't find it nearly as "ranty" as the author cautioned, and instead seemed like a fairly comprehensive and fair take on his experience.Having gone through the same thing myself several years ago, the UI aspect of it is something that I'd be curious to see how it develops for the author. I think it is not uncommon for Windows folk to find the windowing experience on macs rather painful, at least at first. However, after a while, it sort of "made sense" to me, if that makes any sense at all. There are some clear UX philosophies that are very different, and the initial transition can only be pretty jarring, but I'm curious what the author would say about it after a month or two.Also, fwiw, I think most power Mac users also marshal the use of some other programs to help along with some of that (or at least to tailor it more closely to what they want the experience to be). Rectangle is one of the first installs on any Mac I put my hands on... makes window management so much more pleasant!

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geoffmanningabout 3 years ago

As a lifetime windows user that just recently joined a macBook company, i have to say i am indifferent overall, but there have been many alternating moments of delightful surprises and annoyances of unmet expectations in my journey to learn the MacOS UX.I'm a month in now and i have to say that attitude is everything when it comes to learning something new, and, especially when you know something "kind of like this", you have to be very careful not to let your unmet expectations of something similar sour the experience.When i started with Windows as a kid i didn't have a "choice" in the matter, it's just what we had, and i had to learn all those tricks and tips along the way to improve my user experience. If i used that to temper the curve of getting a good user experience from my Mac i'd have to say that Mac got it closer to the target by a magnitude.So, when you don't get the experience you need, instead of defaulting to "this is dumb", ask yourself why they did it this way, and why you expect it that way, and then if you still want it that way after considering a new perspective, chances are there's an app for that.Stay curious, my friends.

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ysleepyabout 3 years ago

My recommendations for Mac Users:* Put the Dock left or right, vertical space is precious (trust me, do it for a week and then decide)* Setup Hot-Corners (Settings -> Mission Control -> Hot Corners)<pre><code> - Upper-Right Corner as Mission Control (Must be upper right so spaces are immediately shown) - Lower-Left Corner as Application Windows - just fling your mouse curser into the corner (use std. gestures on the trackpad) </code></pre> This makes window management a lot better.* Maximise Windows by double clicking the Window title bar.* Disable auto-{correction, capitalize, etc}, smart-quotes under Keyboard settings (if you want)* Learn about the screenshot shortcuts CMD+shift+{3,4}, 3: full screen, 4: select area or switch to window select with hitting space bar once.* Learn about CMD+space for launching apps* Set Key-Repeat to fast and shorten the delay* Disable spotlight for everything except what you want to use it for.* Enable File-Vault* Disable "Wake for Network Access" under Energy* Enable the ssh server under Sharing "Remote Login" (If you want)* Disable the visual/audible bell in the Terminal profile.* Install MacPorts/HomebewAnd one thing to internalize is that Apple is a little authoritarian about some UX aspects.For example the snapping and window thing... Apple has a thing with continuos freedom opposed to the discretisation one is used to. I've come around to that view as well actually, free your mind, nature is not a stepped slider.Cool Utilities:MenuMeters with a CPU usage graph. this allows you to see if something is killing your battery.MonitorControl (on github) to set brightness of external monitors.LittleSnitch ($$) for fellow paranoid control freaksIINA (github) best video playerUTM for VMs (free on github) paid options are good tooMacPass for KeePass databasesHope it helps.

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teiloabout 3 years ago

Someone needs to tell him about option-click on the maximize button.Most of these "rants" really just amount to: "this different OS doesn't work exactly the same way as the OS I am used to." That's why 3rd party utilities exist to give you the functionality you wish to have. That formula cuts both ways.

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traceroute66about 3 years ago

The author makes a big deal of lack of snapping. Frankly I've never seen the utility of it on OSs that do have it, infact I've always felt it more of a hinderance than a help (gets in the way, tries to snap when you don't want it to).The author makes a big deal that you have to do Command+Tab to switch applications, and then Command+` to cycle between windows in that application. Well, frankly I think thats the better way, I'll give you an example:Let's say (as you do) you have a dozen browser windows open (maybe in more than one browser) ... do you REALLY want to sit there hitting Command+Tab dozens of times ? No. Its quicker to switch to the desired app and then cycle within the app. That way you don't cycle through the browser when you don't need to.Finally there are some, frankly bizarre, comments in the blog post, such as:> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook.Well, yeah, its not Apple's problem if you choose to use a PC keyboard with your Mac. Most people would either use the built-in Mac keyboard or buy an external one (third-party Mac keyboards are available from the usual suspects if you don't fancy an Apple one).I gave up reading the blog post around that point ("The Undecided" header to be precise).

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etempletonabout 3 years ago

As a longtime user of Macs this is dead on. Mac OS UX feels cumbersome today in a way it never used to feel. A lot of that is by comparison to Windows 10/11 and Linux, rather than actual regression, but it doesn’t change the fact that it feels bad. I remember first using OSX and it feeling like a revelation compared to Windows. Honestly it wouldn’t take much to fix this. If they implement drag windows snapping; rethink full screen mode; and improve the intelligence of dock autohiding, I think it would do a lot, but as is I feel like I am fighting the software to do basic window navigation.At the same time, I think Apple is currently doing some of their best most sensible hardware design and their quality control has only gotten better.Despite my misgivings about Mac OS I still choose a Mac for work because I need a laptop and I want a quality machine, but I really hope Apple take a long hard look at MacOS and devotes some resources to pushing desktop operating systems forward again.

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mastaziabout 3 years ago

I think this is a pretty fair article. I'll add one more:in MacOS there is no unified way to get to the beginning or end of a line. In Linux and Windows this is done with the Home and End keys. In Mac, there are some shortcuts but they are not universal, what works in terminal may not work in a browser textarea and so on. Some programs interpret the same shortcut as "go to the very end of the text (as in a PgDown key) but that same shortcut, in another program, might go to the end of the line (like the End key).Please let me know if I'm missing something! Every time I make a web search about this topic, I end up in various pages like this one[1] with shortcuts that don't work for me for the reasons explained above.EDIT: I found out that there are some Mac keyboards with the Home and End keys. So it seems that this is not an OS issue but, I guess, a MacBook issue (I've only ever used MacBooks and always without external keyboard).[1] <a href="https://djst.org/topic/what-is-the-end-key-on-a-mac/" rel="nofollow">https://djst.org/topic/what-is-the-end-key-on-a-mac/</a>

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pschastainabout 3 years ago

Funny. Coming from macOS to Linux Mint, I find I can make many of the same or similar arguments but against Linux.The UI is inconsistent, esp. wrt the menu bar. Keyboard shortcuts are inconsistent across different apps. macOS remembers window positions, GNOME doesn't. macOS can use different backgrounds for different monitors, GNOME can't. The GNOME Panel is a poor substitute for the macOS Dock (which itself is severely limited) i.e. doesn't offer any visual cue that an app is launching. I could go on.OSes are a tool. Use what works best for you.

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dfxm12about 3 years ago

As someone who switches around between primarily Windows and secondarily OSX, and GDM3, I find OSX to have the most intuitive window manager. I don't like apps being maximized, and I feel like I can always intuitively find the window I'm looking for in OSX, just under the active window. I find myself arranging windows in Windows like OSX might arrange them. Maybe Apple is just using a different metaphor. I understand this is very subjective though.Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators.Is this still really the case? Most of what I hear nowadays is Apple's reputation is that their products are luxury status symbols rather than a tool for creative types, outside of maybe the camera on the iPhone. 10 years ago, you might have seen the coffee shop filled with macbooks, but that's not the case today. What artist is going to afford a $1900 monitor that can only be height adjusted with a $400 upgrade?

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uuyiabout 3 years ago

This is a story as old as time.When you’re used to something else the change hurts. I have found it far better to not bring your mental baggage with you and meet the new platform as its level rather than try and make it the same as the old one.I have gone MOS > RiscOS > WinNT -> Solaris -> Linux -> Win7 -> macOS and it hurt every time.

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kemayoabout 3 years ago

I actually like the command+tab behavior, and miss it when I use Windows.I'll explain: if you have a lot of windows open, I think it's nice to silo them. When I have ten Firefox windows and six Sublime windows and three iTerm windows, and a few other random applications, it's generally easier to go first to the app I want and then find the window inside it, rather than always having to shuffle through 19 different windows at the top-level.This is probably a matter of personal preference and habit, and you can make a good case for either behavior. I just don't think macOS' behavior is obviously worse... only different.

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macraelabout 3 years ago

I have never spent much time on Windows machines but I _love_ cmd-` on the Mac. I mean, I have a whole rant about how its ordering behavior changed on Lion for the worse but I love having windows grouped by application and picking the app I care about before picking the window I care about. I have never understood why so many people use a single chrome window for all of their tabs but I think it comes from not being experienced with cmd-`. For me, I group tabs in my browser by subject, most commonly, by google search query, and then I can close them all at once when I'm done with them.I've actually started braking more websites out into their own fluid.app so that I can cmd-tab to them specifically. Jira, Github, Gmail (well, when I used gmail) all get their own app so I don't have to go hunting for that single tab in my browser, making my browser window management that much easier.If you're interested in that, I pair fluid.app with choosy so that links open in the correct fluid browser.

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moonchromeabout 3 years ago

I've had a long background of Windows and Linux usage but I've used MacOS a significant time as well - I'm daily driving a 2018 MacBook Pro 15 and use a Windows Desktop for WFH because it's much more powerful an silent. And I'm also developing on .NET core right now which is a Microsoft tech.With that said I would say MacOS grows on you. On my 34 inch screen using snapping is just not practical - I just move windows around and have plenty of visual space and can quickly move my head to move attention to a different window, find other windows through overlaps - I prefer this to tabbing - and this is when working on my Windows desktop.Returning to Windows after not regularly using it for last 3 years it's sad to see that the UI has regressed with Windows 11. For example windows had system calendar app that would connect to the system calendar in the bottom right and show event previews for the day and you could click on the day and get day summaries, sort of like Itsycal but built in. They removed this in Windows 11.I think MacOS is strictly better for most of my use cases :- The new right click UI is clunky and obviously touch optimized, most of the OS is going this way and it's shit for desktop usability- Dark mode support is hit-and-miss, much better in MacOS- PowerToys Run doesn't work reliably at all compared to Mac CMD + Space which works without a hiccup- chocolatey is garbage compared to homebrewWhere Windows beats MacOS for me :- Docker performance is much much better- WSL/linux integration is fairly nice (using OpenSuSe rolling release to get relevant software, Ubuntu LTS they provide is ancient)

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nerdjonabout 3 years ago

I always find this interesting, my primary computing device that I do actual work on is Mac (technically I guess my primary is my iPhone or iPad if I go by time but I am not counting that). But I have a Windows computer for gaming and a few Linux machines lingering around.I constantly find myself frustrated by Windows because I am just used to how Mac operates. I have been using it as my primary compute device since Lion.However one of the things that I find interesting from the Window management point that I don't see mentioned, touchpad gestures. I cannot use Mac without gestures, even when I am using my laptop as a desktop I use the Magic Trackpad. The few times I have tried to use a mouse... it just feels wrong. I would highly recommend taking a look at this and looking at the window management from this prospective. Because of these gestures I never think I need to snap things because switching windows is a quick swipe and and a click. Then all the other gestures, hot corners, etc.That being said, I find the same issue with my partner. He has never used a Mac (has an iPhone though) but sometimes he needs to do something quick so grabs my laptop. It is fascinating watching him struggle with the trackpad and other basics that to me I don't even think about anymore.

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CSMastermindabout 3 years ago

There's a lot of people in comments defending macOS saying that the difference in switching between operating systems will lead to a bad experience no matter what and people just need to power through and learn the new system.I'll say that I've used Windows and macOS both personally and professionally for two decades now (longer for Windows). I'd consider myself a power user in both OSes, I know the keyboard shortcuts, I know the OS settings somewhat in depth, and I've used a lot of the common tools to extend each OS.My experience is that Windows has far better UX for pretty most end users.I have 4 monitors connected to my Windows computer. I just plugged them in and it worked. I've burned hours fighting with external monitors on macOS. Is it even possible to have 4 external monitors? Actually you can extend this to all sorts of peripherals.Windows explorer feels way more productive than finder. It still bothers me that I can't cut and paste folders by default.I revert to the command line way more on macOS than I do on Windows. That's a skill that your average user isn't going to have.I found my old Oregon Trail 3 CD two months ago and decided to play it. I had to navigate a few context menus but this 1997 game booted right up on Windows, how many hoops do you think I'd have to jump through to run a Mac OS 8 application on my MacBook Pro?And there's a bunch of other examples I could give. There's a lot of reasons people like Apple products and if the interface works for you, great! But I don't think it's fair to dismiss critiques as ignorance of lack of ability.

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lbritoabout 3 years ago

>you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything. Apple products are supposed to be revered the world over as the pinnacle of design, used by artists, engineers, professionals, and creators. Why do I feel like there are training wheels on a machine I use for productivity?Gosh, this is exactly how I felt in a similar situation. Really hit the nail on the head.I've used Linux for a long time, and for a while I was kindly forced to use a Mac (got a Linux laptop last week). It was a painful experience that took a heavy toll on my productivity.My impression is that Mac has so many idiossincrasies that fans just assume are "intuitive" while they're really not - they've just been used to it for a long time. Personally I hated, hated the usability. Can't stress it enough, it absolutely sucked. Never again!Also the benefits compared to non-Macs are diminishing over time. You can get great hardware and battery life with system76 for instance.

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xisthesqrtof9about 3 years ago

3 of the 4 items that the author mentioned can be solved with using NixOS inside a VM on your mac :)Inspired by Mitchell Hashimoto's VMWare setup[0]. I setup my own computer in such a way, I now have the best of both worlds. Developing on a linux machine, where I can control everything if I wanted (down to the OS) and the ease of Notes/iMessages whenever I need it.Window management is a pita because of internal APIs and the fact that Apple doesn't cater to people that actually care about these tools. Check out Yabai[1] which btw requires you to disable SIP (System Integrity Protection) if you want to use its full potential.Instead you can run NixOS and choose your favourite window/tiling manager (i3).Package manager: I still run Nix but I am not that happy with it. Either I need to spend some more time or look for an alternative. One of the problems is the ability to easily pin older versions.[0] - <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDMLoWz76U&t=359s&ab_channel=MitchellHashimoto" rel="nofollow">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ubDMLoWz76U&t=359s&ab_channe...</a> [1] - <a href="https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/koekeishiya/yabai</a>

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Xeviabout 3 years ago

RantI switched to a Mac Mini M1 in December and it has been a complete pain in the ass. First of all, to even be able to use it I had to switch out my monitor, mouse, keyboard and speakers because Apple didn't like them. And then I had to buy an extra dock to get more ports. On top of that I've also had to install a bunch of third party software to get basic functionality like window snapping (Moom), and a functioning scroll wheel and the ability to turn off mouse acceleration (SteerMouse). And don't get me started on the absolute bonkers ways you toggle between applications, or the fact that you need to click TWICE on a window when switching between windows, if you want to type something in it. My desk is absolutely cluttered with application windows, because minimizing them apparently makes Mac treat them as if you never want to see them again, which messes with my voice control software. Oh, and why is there no delete button? And why do I need to be so precise when clicking on desktop icons, instead of just having a bounding box around them? Who thought that was a good idea? And while we're on desktop icons, why on earth aren't they sorted and fixed to a grid by default? Does anyone like unorganized items in folders?? Another thing that annoys me is pop-up windows with no freaking option to close them other than clicking "done" or whatever. What if I don't want to apply any of the changes I've made? Why can't I just cancel?? I could go on and on about UI inconsistencies and various bugs I've encountered. Needless to say I'm switching back to Windows (which isn't without its own problems) next time I'm buying a computer.This mac has made my RSI go haywire. I've tried to do everything the "Apple way", but it's just always so clunky and slow compared to Windows.

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joeman1000about 3 years ago

Nice article. Coincidentally we have the same computers, even the same specs. I’ve been on macOS for 11 years now, so I’m biased.On window snapping: why on earth would you want to obscure your desktop with two huge panes? I usually have ‘small’ applications on my desktop ‘workspace’ (terminal, reminders, messages, finder). I always see ex-windows users cluttering their desktop workspace and not utilising more workspaces. It’s more efficient (in my opinion) to have multiple workspaces and avoid the tedious game of minimising and maximising dozens of windows on the desktop. I get that it’s what you’re used to, since this behaviour is enforced on windows, but do give the macOS way a shot. Whenever I’m on windows I feel hampered by the lack of virtual workspaces.I think some of the idiosyncrasies are worth bearing with in macOS. It’s worth it even for the consistency of the design across the OS. It seems trite, but I like that everything speaks the same design language. It feels coherent. I’m never jarred as I am on windows 10, when I open the advance control panel and find that it’s from 1999.

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spicyusernameabout 3 years ago

> Package managementThis always floors me when I have to use a non-Linux computer. The difference between package management on Linux and other OSes is shocking. Dnf, Yum, Pacman are all so convenient and straightforward.I can't understand why Windows and MacOS don't have anything official that fills this gap.

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rcontiabout 3 years ago

IMO, command-tab and command-tilde are vastly superior to the Windows method. It's less relevant these days due to applications running their own tabs inside of the app. I fought this for years but eventually gave up because you really have to use tabs these days. Many applications have wasted space for a tab bar even if you refuse to use tabs. But I liked being able to switch through windows in a given application vs switching applications entirely.I still feel that tabs-everywhere is making up for a broken window manager. Why should we offload this to each application?

forbiddenvoidabout 3 years ago

I am overwhelmed with how many of the comments in these discussions are of the form: 'this thing is super hard to do on a Mac' responded to by, 'actually it's super easy; all you have to do is cast this magic spell.'

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jmullabout 3 years ago

I think it’s more what you’re used to.I use Windows and macos daily and I sorta prefer the mac’s window management, but they both work fine once you know what you’re doing. In some cases macos just has different keystrokes that the author doesn’t know yet, and in others you just manage windows a little differently (or use an app if you don’t want to adjust).

cudgyabout 3 years ago

> The entire design of macOS feels like the Gnome desktop: you use what they give you, how they give it to you, using their workflows, barely customizing anything.The user just started to use the OS: of course they have little knowledge of customization plus they are using a computer subject to corporate policies. Not a fair criticism.However, the critique of the window snapping mechanics is correct. Very frustrating to have the window go full screen when removing one half of the previously split screen.

kpsabout 3 years ago

> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook.It does; they're just labelled ‘Alt’ and ‘Windows’.

digisignabout 3 years ago

No one mentioned the home/end keys so I will. ;-) I am a big user of these, use them a hundred times a day to go to front/back of line. Mac doesn't do that, goes to front/back of doc, which I do very rarely. But if I do, just click with the mouse or hold down PgUp/Dn. More common operations should get the default hotkeys imho.I managed to change this, but DBeaver finds a way to screw it up occasionally.

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noway421about 3 years ago

You don't need an app for window splitting. If you hold Option ⌥ key and hover over the green circle, there will be "Move Window to Left side of the screen" and "Move Window to Right side of the screen" options presented instead of "Tile Window to Left of Screen" and "Tile Window to Right of Screen" options. Those don't create a new virtual desktop.

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rogualabout 3 years ago

MacOS's quirks don't really bother me much, except one:<pre><code> 1. Open a terminal on screen 1. 2. Open a terminal and a browser on screen 2. 3. Be using the terminal on screen 1. 4. Cmd-Tab to the browser. 5. Cmd-Tab to "go back" </code></pre> MacOS will switch to the terminal... on screen 2.Drives me nuts.

systematicalabout 3 years ago

I've had to use Mac at my last two jobs, before that was Linux for 8 years. I use Linux at home. I just do enough to get by and get my job done in Mac. I know its a bad mentality and I should work to improve my Mac experience, but I just don't enjoy working in that O.S.Even if I spent the time honing in the UI and terminal. Home Brew is just terrible compared to Apt. That's really the game for me. Maybe my next gig will let me use Linux, but Mac seems to be becoming the only show in town for nix-based development teams and its just sad.

simonbarker87about 3 years ago

Pretty reasonable write up to be honest. I think the window management thing is reasonable when you come from a background where that’s a given. There are some great third party window managers available, I use one of them and very happy with it. It’s called Magnet for those who are interested.

tetsusaigaabout 3 years ago

> give anything to replace macOS with Linux (or even Windows)I agree that this was a fair, measured post, but I find it bizarre that a Linux enthusiast would ever want to replace their Mac OS with Windows when the biggest complaint is... window management? I feel like they left something out here.

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selimnairbabout 3 years ago

I’ve been using DOS, Windows, Mac OS, Linux, and now macOS over the past 30 years. macOS is still the least shitty OS out there from a user point of view, in my opinion. Window snapping on Windows and various Linux environments makes my blood boil, so I have never missed that in macOS. Also, it’s hard for me to accept that Windows has better UX than anything. There are at least two different UI frameworks at play in Windows, the new Windows 8-derived stuff, and the classic Windows 2000/XP Win32 UI, with abrupt transitions between the two. I don’t know how this ships. Microsoft certainly has the resources to fix this, but chooses not to. They just don’t care. So I suppose Steve Jobs was right, they have no taste. In a strictly utilitarian sense, none of this matters, but if the user-facing side is this bad, what are they allowing to slide under the covers. In addition to the vastly different UI idioms in Windows, there is a lack of organization and level of convolution that makes relatively simple things hard (finding how much RAM a system has), and somewhat more technical tasks maddening (e.g., changing the MTU on a network interface). I’ve used Windows 3.1, 95/98, NT 3.51, NT4, 2000, XP, 7, and 10 over the years, and it just keeps getting worse. Maybe I will try ReactOS one of these days.

Karupanabout 3 years ago

My wife just switched from being a life-long Windows user to a Mac last week. The two biggest frustrations according to her are: Cmd+O to open a file and window management. And as a long time Mac user myself, I completely agree.

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etchalonabout 3 years ago

"In summary, macOS does not behave like Windows or Linux."

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mch82about 3 years ago

This review is misses for me due to these two quotes:> I’m using this Macbook almost exclusively with the lid closed, with a USB-C adapter to connect my keyboard/mouse/monitor.> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook.The reviewer isn’t using the built in webcam, Touch ID, trackpad, or the Mac keyboard layout! Why even have a Mac with that setup?Opening the lid solves the webcam issues. Using the trackpad gestures solves the desktop switching issues. Using the Mac keyboard solves the keyboard command issues. And, yeah, get a USB-C dock for those ports (or the latest laptop that added them back).

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wwalexanderabout 3 years ago

> macOS has a weird snapping implementation where you need to click and hold the green “zoom” button, then choose to “tile” left or right. But, once you pick another window to fill the other half, both of those windows (together as one) move to their own virtual desktop. I want them split on my current desktop, not on a separate desktop.This functionality is actually built into macOS by default, though it’s not very discoverable. The Tile Window to Left/Right of Screen options (which can also be found in the Window menu in the menu bar) change to Move Window to Left/Right of Screen when you are holding ⌥, which will move and resize the windows as desired without entering full screen. (For windows whose minimum width exceeds half the screen width, the left edge will be aligned properly while the right edge will overflow into the other half of the screen or off the edge of the screen respectively).> Also, unlike Windows or Linux, you can’t “maximize” a window using the green “zoom” button, it will only make the current window fullscreen (and again, on its own desktop). Confusingly, you need to again click and hold the green “zoom” button, then choose “Zoom”. Apple calls the green button “zoom” in their documentation, but its default function is fullscreen, not zoom.…For all the Apple fanboys screaming “There’s an app for that!”, I hear you, but remember, this is a work machine and I need to get everything I install blessed by IT security.While it is unfortunate that Apple doesn’t provide any shortcuts for these features, you can set them up yourself without any extra software via  > System Preferences > Keyboard > Shortcuts > App Shortcuts. I have the following “missing” shortcuts set up, kind of like the tiling shortcuts on Windows but with more modifier keys.Move Window to Left of Screen: ⌃⌥⌘←Move Window to Right of Screen: ⌃⌥⌘→Zoom: ⌃⌥⌘↑Tile Window to Left of Screen: ⌃⌘←Tile Window to Right of Screen: ⌃⌘→Enter Full Screen: ⌃⌘↑

_ZeD_about 3 years ago

I just (couple of weeks ago) received my First Mac, a 2019 MacBook Pro to work with... and I really don't get the "HW good" meme...The MacBook Pro HW is mediocre, at best.The body is heavy. Boy, have anyone used and LG gram? But even my other work laptop (a Lenovo) wheight less and feel more balanced.My model has only the usbc ports.. I don't even have an HDMI one.My model has the infamous touchbar, and it sucks. A lot. But even the keys... They seems empty, I don't have feedback from them...And for the ginormous touchpad... I ended using a mouse because that "thing" it's awful to use. I don't give a dime to the gestures... The problem is the lack of feedback! Not a click, a way to understand if you "did" something or not. It was so absurd that I though it was damaged.I really don't get the "Mac HW is stellar" meme

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mushyhammerabout 3 years ago

I was expecting a rant about the Finder, found one on window management (which has infinite solutions).Other than the spacebar and column view, the Finder is a toy compared to File Explorer.exe and I’ll never forgive Apple for it. 20 years of staleness.

pojzonabout 3 years ago

Ive been working on windows OSes for few years before my employer finally let me use macbook.It was the best switch I could make. I had fully working linux distribution together with superb UX of MacOS.Recently switched jobs and again back to Windows. Now I see how many things that simply work out of the box on MacOS you have to hack-in on Windows to be even able to work as a software developer.WSL2 is also such a pain to work with. Quality of Microsoft apps on Windows is also worse than Microsoft apps on MacOS. For example -> MS Teams on Windows constantly hangs up or freezes. Never had such issues on MacOS. Beside OS nothing changed in my home office.

linsomniacabout 3 years ago

I also recently got a MBP and it's the first time I've used a Mac since the '80s, mostly using Linux for work and a Chromebook for home.I agree with what this article has to say. Great hardware. For my primary reason for spending the money on it, it runs rings around anything else out there (video editing).The OS I find mostly ok, but a few things feel pretty rough:Updates. My terminal blocks updates from happening when I'm not using it. Updates take an amazingly long time where you can't use the system. I'm talking like the majority of an hour. It makes Windows updates look speedy, and I hate how long Windows updates take. Linux and ChromeOS do this right: You can use the system while it is doing updates, then it's just a reboot into the updatesThe app finder (3 finger pinch), I sure wish it was a little smarter. In Firefox if I go to the URL bar and type "n" it knows I probably want "news.ycombinator.com". Every time I 3 finger pinch and type "b" it's like a babe in the woods, never having met me before. Now, every time I type "blue", MacOS thinks I want "bluetooth" until I add the "j" and it can figure out that, like every time I've done this, I want the BlueJeans app because it's meeting time...I still haven't gotten used to clicking the yellow window button and the app "hides", the only thing on my screen is firefox or whatever, but when I start typing it's still going to that hidden app.That said, it's still a great box. Mostly I use it as a web browser and a SSH terminal to my work machine. But, it has absolutely solved an infrequent pain point for me: Editing videos of my kids. Last fall I edited a concert video, the hour long concert took me ~40 hours to do because my wife's laptop, reasonably powerful but not the highest end GPU, required so much time generating optimized media and churning, and even then everything I did was slow as molasses.The Mac has handled all video editing tasks without breaking a sweat. I feel like an idiot for spending the money for an infrequent task, but it is a 100% solved problem now.

ctimeabout 3 years ago

Re: SnappingI recall visiting a Apple store around 2006 and playing with a store model iMac. I asked why I couldn’t easily maximize windows and manage them. The Apple genius just replied “why would you ever want to do it that way!”Well, idk? because it is intuitive and works? Sometimes I wish the Apple-heads would get their head out of their asses.I still bought a Mac Mini and by all accounts I am deeply invested in Apple products.These days, whenever working on a new Mac system, my first install is usually to install Amethest (<a href="https://ianyh.com/amethyst/" rel="nofollow">https://ianyh.com/amethyst/</a>)

rewgsabout 3 years ago

All the classic complaints that show this person hasn’t really given it a chance.Window snapping and maximize are the only two things I agree with here, but they are easily fixed by many third party apps. To those that say that’s “cheating” or something like that: the amount of third-party software required to give me a usable Windows system far outweighs what I install on a Mac. Yes macOS’s window snapping/maximization are non-existent/weird, but BetterSnapTool is one of the few “first installs” I feel I MUST make on a Mac. Contrast that with OneCommander, Everything Search, 7-Zip, etc that I absolutely require on a Windows machine. And even then the experience is…crusty. And of course you can’t even talk about Linux here — the whole thing is third party software, that’s the point.Cmd+tab is simple: it is for apps. Cmd+~ is for windows within apps. This is, I think, a very fair way to approach a system wherein “having all windows closed” != “the app is closed;” a design decision that I think is far, far more useful than Windows/most Linux DEs (it also arises out of the fundamental difference of “being in app (Finder) when you’re not in any other apps” — again, a better overall UX decision, I think.The comments from supposed “power users” claiming that you can’t cut/paste within Finder clearly aren’t power users.Etc.As usual, these rants and arguments come down to little more than familiarity. I have met very, very few people with a truly objective and measured take on desktop OS UX and are power users.

oneplaneabout 3 years ago

Lots of "I don't like how it tastes/feels, therefore it must be bad" packaged in a rant, as usual. Essentially only useful information if you are a clone of the author, in all other cases your milage will vary... drastically.There isn't much of a point in attacking or defending taste in such a way, but neither is trying to objectively score something because it's not the objective score that matters, it's how it feels to the user, and users aren't all identical.

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sofixaabout 3 years ago

I'm in the same boat, recently starting a job which provides an MBP. I've last used macOS in school, a few years ago.It's mostly meh. I don't care for the OS conventions ( like the cmd stuff) and I'm not going to force myself out of years of muscle memory for one of my machines, but i can mostly tune that ( with third party tools, but still). Cmd remapped to ctrl, cmd+tab remapped to ctrl+tab. The only issues is Ctrl+C doesn't work in iTerm, I've yet to fix that.However the UX is like something for children - what's with drag and drop for installing a program?? The included tools range from meh to garbage - Pages mangling .docx and saving them in its proprietary format is inexcusable. And for some reason i can't get the MBP to sleep when it's charging and an external screen is connected - clicking sleep through the menu makes it sleep for a second and then it wakes up. Oh, and it's extremely annoying that the scroll button on a mouse and trackpad have to share the same scrolling direction.Honestly i find that macOS is OK. Slightly better than Windows, but with annoying differences and stubborn "this is how things are, the old way no longer works, you're holding it wrong" attitude. Linux is best in terms of flexibility but has some other downsides.

shp0ngleabout 3 years ago

The funny thing is - many years ago, MacOS was ahead of Windows in window management for a long time.Sure, that maximize button doing a weird thing was still there - my "favourite" app was iTunes, which randomly switched it to a different mode - but otherwise, Expose was something amazing that other systems later copied, as well as the Dock system.However, it kind of stalled recently, and the "tile window to the left" is laughably bad; as if coming from iPadOS.

zamalekabout 3 years ago

> Homebrew is a lifesaver on macOS and is the only thing not making me pull my hair out.All credit due, Homebrew is amazing given that it doesn't have the same opportunities for deep integration that Linux package managers do. It certainly made MacOS bearable for me. But, it's only good in a walled vacuum. There's almost nothing else on the platform to compare it to. I have been using nix-darwin, but packages routinely break on darwin (not that I blame them for it).Windows might have never had a package manager, but there are decades of workflows build up around not having one. Downloading an .exe/.msi and installing is sub-optimal, dangerous, and barbaric, but it does work. Linux has pacman, RPM, deb, nix, ostree, flatpak, and more, which (from personal experience) are all amazing. The Mac package workflow has been built up around a second-class citizen: Homebrew. And the fact that Homebrew is a second-class citizen shows. If you've used almost any other package manager as a daily driver you get an idea just how wanting the whole MacOS ecosystem is. There are a few ones worse than your options with Apple (cough Snap cough), but not many.I wonder how many Apple power users understand just how bad they have it with Apple.

bjoliabout 3 years ago

I have started noticing regression after regression in almost all devices I use, mostly due to all the "reinvention" going on.In Monterey they made it easier to use multiple audio outputs. The new UI removes scrolling over the speaker icon to change volume.After updating to Monterey some of my keyboards don't have a command key. They worked until I updated. Now I get weird issues. But only on the non-US-ansi layouts (I'm Swedish).Similar things:Firefox on android started opening things from the most visited list in new tabs. I press the address bar and press one of my 8 most visited sites (which account for 95% of my sites) and they open in a new tab. This changed from one version to another, and now I regularly have 40 tabs, some I want to keep.Google decided that the volume up button on 3.5mm headphones should start the assistant. So suddenly none of my headphones work as they should.I notice things like this all the time. Especially the last one kills me. Who, who?!!, thought this was a good idea. Every update on os X and my smartphone brings something that makes me feel like I am fed a turd. I don't use Windows, but I suspect it is the same thing there.

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gigel82about 3 years ago

We're doing cross-plat work and I have a macBook that I sometimes need to use to compile and debug stuff.Even after a couple of years, I dread having to work on the mac. Could be me being used to Windows since the DOS / Win3.1 days, but I feel right at home on Windows - know most nooks and crannies; macOS feels like a kid's toy by comparison (an ATM or kiosk terminal) - it literally feels like being asked to do work with my right hand tied behind my back. I actually enjoy working on Linux desktops more than on macOS.For the past year I have a home setup with a Windows laptop and a macBook side-by-side hooked up to 2 external monitors and Barrier software KVM; the idea was to use Windows for work and mac for personal. But I never venture outside the browser on the mac - a chromebook would work just as well.I actually wanted to install an USB network adapter because the machine felt so laggy and I blamed wifi; a thing that on Windows for the past 20 years has literally been plug&play needed futzing around with driver packages, an hour of searching for workarounds and at least 2 reboots.I honestly don't know why so many developers prefer working on mac.

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js2about 3 years ago

> On the other hand, macOS has a weird snapping implementation where you need to click and hold the green “zoom” button, then choose to “tile” left or right. But, once you pick another window to fill the other half, both of those windows (together as one) move to their own virtual desktop. I want them split on my current desktop, not on a separate desktop.> Also, unlike Windows or Linux, you can’t “maximize” a window using the green “zoom” button, it will only make the current window fullscreen (and again, on its own desktop). Confusingly, you need to again click and hold the green “zoom” button, then choose “Zoom”. Apple calls the green button “zoom” in their documentation, but its default function is fullscreen, not zoom.Apple keeps changing the green button, but with Monterey, if you hold down Option then hover over the green its menu options become:- Zoom- Move Window to Left Side of Screen- Move Window to Right Side of ScreenWhich I think effect the behavior the author wants. In general, the Option key is the gateway to additional behaviors in the macOS GUI. I can't find a way to make this the default behavior of the green button, but what you can do is add keyboard shortcuts for them.System Preferences... > Keyboard > Shortcuts > +<pre><code> Application: All Applications Menu Title: Move Window to Left Side of Screen Keyboard Shortcut: something unique such as control-command-left-arrow. </code></pre> Repeat for "Move Window to Right Side of Screen" and "Zoom".The title bar can also be double-clicked to zoom (default is to minimize, but there's a preference under System Preferences... > Dock & Menu Bar to set it to zoom).

ayrobluabout 3 years ago

The author's conslusion isn't well supported by the evidence they provide. They assert they would never buy a personal Mac, but their primary criticisms are solved by downloading a few apps. It's surprising that they can use Homebrew but not Rectangle etc given their work policy, but these restrictions don't apply for personal computers anyways?

FpUserabout 3 years ago

>"Why even have a Mac with that setup?"It was given by employer. People get used to particular keyboard, mouse, big monitor, etc. etc.I had to write and debug some docker scripts on Mac. Since I was in no mood to buy one just for that I asked my client to supply me one. They gave me Mac laptop and I used it in exactly the same configuration with the lid closed.

thaway2839about 3 years ago

I think at this point Apple does not see macOS (from the user perspective) like a traditional GUI OS.It used to be that OSes provided window management, file management, some basic file handling, and APIs and framework to build and connect apps.Apple, instead, sees the OS as an app launcher that provides a framework to build isolated apps.IOW, it's reduced macOS to the Dock.

landaabout 3 years ago

"Also, unlike Windows or Linux, you can’t “maximize” a window using the green “zoom” button, it will only make the current window fullscreen (and again, on its own desktop)."Just hold option when you click on the "zoom" button.Your other complaint, about Alt-Tab, is just a preference. I actually prefer this behavior over Windows.

pombrandabout 3 years ago

Apple believes they always have the best way, and rarely gives you options to do things in other ways..sometimes they're right, but not always.I switched from Windows last month, after installing rectangle, bettertouchtools and speeding up all animations possible, I'm left with the following gripes.1. No magnetic windows the way windows does unless in the clunky fullscreen mode.2. No way to turn off animations for maximising windows.3. No way to let mouseover select window an action is taken in (i keep closing the wrong chrome window using mouse gestures)4. Finder still sucks (so does no cutting and pasting files)5. All apps cost money, e.g. ScreenX for windows is free and better than all paid macos options for screenshots.6. Chrome window resizing seems artificially slow.Overall windows still feels more productive, but also sucks more in many other ways, such as preinstalling candy crush or its opaque update system.

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barbsabout 3 years ago

I've been using macOS professionally for years, but I still find the application/window management system really strange and clumsy. Quite often, closing the last window of an application doesn't entirely quit the application itself. This is particularly annoying when using chrome or firefox, since I'd expect the last tabs I had open to be there when I next open the application, but if I haven't entirely quit the application it just launches a blank new window. I've gotten used to right clicking the icon in the dock and quitting it that way, but it's cumbersome and inconsistent with how it works on other OSes. You also can't quit Finder entirely this way either for some reason.I'm sure there's some technical explanation that makes sense, but it feels wrong.

miklabout 3 years ago

We’ve seen quite a few of these “I tried a Mac” articles on here, and this is the usual for these posts: The UI conventions of macOS are quite different from Windows (and thus also from the mainstream Linux desktop environments, which mostly ape Windows).The author thinks the macOS way is weird/annoying/wrong, without realising that this is just an emotional judgment caused by his own (in)experience rather than a problem with macOS.The differences do chafe until your mental model adapts itself. The inverse is also true. When I happen to use Windows, I hate how I can’t drag a window anywhere near the edges without the snapping behaviour kicking in. I hate having to use Ctrl-C for copying, since that means something quite different in Unix, etc.

csomarabout 3 years ago

The OP probably didn't spend much time with macOS. Here is a more serious rant with macOS:1. The Spotlight program will randomly consume 100% of your CPU while you are doing actual work.2. The iCloud integration will decide to disappear your desktop/document folders when you most need them, and nobody understand how that thing works.3. macOS safety features not allowing you to install some software. Worse, it doesn't give you a hint that it is the responsible party.4. macOS parental control blocks randomly your localhost, failing some requests. Spend 6-10 hours investigating to find out the real culprit. Good luck deactivating that.And these are just on the top of my head and I hadn't used macOS in the last two years. I can't imagine what a cluster-fff it must be right now with all the crap they have been adding.

gotrythisabout 3 years ago

I came from Windows about four years ago.The two top bad points in the article can be fixed with addons: - Moom (<a href="https://manytricks.com/moom/" rel="nofollow">https://manytricks.com/moom/</a>) to snap windows, - Contexts (<a href="https://contexts.co/" rel="nofollow">https://contexts.co/</a>) to switch between apps.Yes, it would be better if this functionality was included, but it's an easy fix.The thing that was a dealbreaker for me with Windows is that it would reboot to upgrade without my permission and I would lose work. Mac doesn't do that. It may reboot to upgrade when I"m not looking, but you would never know as it puts you exactly back where you were before the reboot.That one thing will keep me loyal to Mac.

m0shenabout 3 years ago

Since the author appears pretty savvy, I recommend trying out <a href="https://www.hammerspoon.org/" rel="nofollow">https://www.hammerspoon.org/</a> and writing a little bit of lua to customize his mac experience. Can even install it as a Homebrew cask

ambyraabout 3 years ago

I always found windows (not the os) to be pretty annoying. Having a full screen app, or two full screen apps side by side is way more usable than a window on top of another that keeps getting lost, or you have to move it around all the time to see what’s underneath.

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major505about 3 years ago

I`m in a similar situation working as a android developer the company sended me a macpro 2021 with the infamous touch bar.Diferent from the author I had some previous experience with macbooks, since I did had a Macbook white many years ago, and have some vintage apple computers like a clamshell laptop and a G4 (I just think they are neat).While I`m in no way as productive with it as I`m with my thinkpad runing Fedora there`s some mitigation I was able to do.The main wone with the window manager. While I do think Apple full screen works well when working exclusive with the mac screen, when connected to multiple screens is a pain in the ass.In this case Magnet solved my problems since it looks a lot with the Windows / Gnome way of dividing the screen with multiple applications.

legitsterabout 3 years ago

THANK YOU!I was recently forced to switch to a Mac for work. After 6+ months I am still relatively unimpressed.I feel like such a big baby, and I know it's because I am familiar with something else, but I cannot express enough how much I hate Mac's window management. I constantly have to split up my work between multiple Chrome windows and I am now resigned to losing track of everything all the time.(Hardware wise - I might actually disagree. The device feels nice, but I've found it to be fairly fragile and delicate. Whereas you can drop a Thinkpad down a flight of stairs into a pool of ice cream, a 6-inch fall onto a hard surface might total the screen on the MacBook. But special shoutout to the speakers which still impress me.)

lfrigodesouzaabout 3 years ago

I've had the same experience. Always used Windows for work machines and Linux for my personal laptop, and now it's the first time that I'm working on a company that only use macbooks, and, oh boy, what a pain!The hardware is truly amazing, no arguing with that, but the OS overall experience have not been very good for me. I knew that there would be needed some time to adapt, but there are some things that are simply counter-intuitive. I'm even having trouble putting this to sleep. I've lost count of how many times I had chosen the "Sleep" option on the menu only to the macbook not go into sleep, and drain my battery overnight...

maviliabout 3 years ago

By software you only mean window management and switching really, then. When you witness a lot less of app crashes on macOS you will appreciate the software better.Window management used to be a pain for me too on a mac until I found Spectacle. With a few keyboard shortcuts that you set yourself, you won't miss snapping windows by mouse drags. Everything happens with your fingers on the keyboard.Alt+Tab with multi-window apps is still a pain for me I admit. So I'm with you there.Overall the stability of a mac (both software and hardware), usability and the productivity you get with the trackpad gestures will make you not want to go back to anything after you've used them for a few weeks.

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coutegoabout 3 years ago

Having bought my first Mac some months ago, I fully share the conclusions. Being able to install Linux in this hardware (assuming everything worked as well, including sleep/wakeup) would be ideal.I have one very big item to put on the 'Bad' list not mentioned in the article: key shortcuts, especially those for text manipulation. I'm reading and writing emails and documents all day long. I need CTRL-LEFT (ok, SUPER-LEFT) to do the right thing and move one word at a time. Having to switch to ALT-LEFT for that is killing my productivity in MacOS /and/ in Linux and Windows (because my muscle memory is gone). It's extremely frustrating.

thomblesabout 3 years ago

The Alt-Tab image is amusing but I will point out that Windows is doing its own innovations here - by default it now cycles through the 5 most recently used Edge tabs alongside your actual windows. On the bright side it can be turned off.

poinkabout 3 years ago

This is fair. Most of the bad mentioned can be worked around trivially, and even turned into a strength with third party apps (a lot of the window management stuff, especially, has more/better third party options than Windows), but Macs are total garbage as corpo machines. Pegging yourself to anything less than the latest version of anything (as businesses managing a fleet of machines are wont to do) is Russian roulette. It’ll work for a while then break with zero warning. You’ll put in a paid issue with Apple support and they’ll just throw their hands up and tell you they can’t help you unless you’re on the latest version.

domeproabout 3 years ago

I would just like to add that this thread is an absolute gold mine of information. I haven't been full time on a mac since the corona-induced WFH where I just picked stuff up on my desktop, but recently I've picked up an M1 Air to work on and separate "home" from "work" and a lot of the suggestions here provide incredible insight into slight annoyances that I find within Mac OS. Not that I care that much since like 99% of my time is spent in tmux and I try to avoid the touchpad/mouse like the plague as much as possible, but it's nice to read the insight people provide here.

sylensabout 3 years ago

Window management is still my number one complaint with macOS. Windows has only gotten better with it since Windows 7 introduced Aero Snap, and on Linux I can do whatever my heart desires, including using a proper tiling environment.

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sircastorabout 3 years ago

I’m always amused when people bring up package managers as a complaint about macOS. I like them, and use them of course, apt on linux machines, homebrew on Macs. It’s great, super useful for what I do.However I feel like pointing out that no one who uses a computer for mundane tasks like surfing, writing email, watching videos, posting pictures, etc. cares remotely what a package manager is, or how well it works.Package managers feel like they live exclusively in the realm of developers and Linux aficionados. And I see people complain about it as though they just bought a house to discover it doesn’t have toilets.

bodge5000about 3 years ago

Not being a mac user myself, the ubinquity of homebrew made me think it was native for many years, to the point that I'd been tempted several times to make the switch (not because having a package manager is that fantastic, but it signals a lot about the intended use of the OS). I always thought MacOS was more stable than Linux, but more open to devs than Windows, but now I'm not so sure about that second point.I doubt I'd get a mac anyway because there aren't many games I could play on it, but I have been previously tempted over the past year or so.

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jonnycomputerabout 3 years ago

All OS's should come standard with sophisticated windows management. I use BetterSnapTool on my Mac, have done so for close to 10 years now. I honestly don't know what I'd do without it--and I'm not doing too much fancy. But keyboard shortcutting to maximize, minimize, or tile (left right/corners/thirds) elimintes 90% of the fiddly annoying this about dealing with the too many windows I have open. But even this basic level of control that the app affords doesn't seem to be important enough for any of the major OSes to make standard.

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itslennysfaultabout 3 years ago

Honestly, for something with a disclaimer about it being a rant, this read pretty positive to me. Pretty sure this guy will be in love with Apple by the end of the year and will start weeing the shortcomings in windows/linux. (at least that was my journey anyways)For the cmd+tab thing I think it's a matter of taste and/or something that the author will get used to. I think I found it odd at first too, but now I get mad at Windows for not doing it that way. I love being able to switch between windows of the same program only.

sandwichinvestabout 3 years ago

Devoted fan of A tries B, is displeased.

makecheckabout 3 years ago

He makes a good point that work computers especially benefit from sane defaults so anything the OS doesn’t do well out of the box (even if fixable 3rd party) is no-go for many users.

bourgeoismediaabout 3 years ago

Some corporate IT security policies just don't make sense. Why is he allowed to install random software from homebrew but not signed apps from a developer who has a contractual relationship with Apple? Even the economics are broken - hackers are going to refine and commercialize security exploits against widely used apps like Slack because of its large and ubiquitous deployment. They are not likely to spend resources targeting power user Mac apps that change the appearance of the alt-tab menu.

960designabout 3 years ago

I am a fan boy and did not find any of it offensive. Great write up, actually. Windows simply does a better job at window management. I use full screen and three finger swipe between 5 separate desktops for work to overcome this weakness. The flash drive did make me giggle... oh you poor windows laden idiot. Flash drives... like from 1999? Most of your issues are just growing pains. I did it when I migrated about 10 years ago from my LeapFrog: no carry handle, screen too bright, no built in songs, ect.

rubyist5evaabout 3 years ago

SkyMarshalabout 3 years ago

>Apple M1 Pro (8 performance cores and 2 efficiency cores)Fwiw I'm not sure anyone really thinks of the M1 in terms of performance vs efficiency cores, but rather in terms CPU and GPU cores (and maybe Neural cores if they're doing AI). For example, "8 CPU Cores and 16 GPU Cores", or "10 CPU Cores and 24 GPU Cores", or the like. But not even Apple's own store really makes an upfront differential between performance and efficiency cores.

spurguabout 3 years ago

> There is no other way to say this: window management is painful on macOS.Out-of-the-box yes.> If you open two of the same window (e.g., two Chrome windows), they appear as one in the dock. However, when you press Command (⌘)+Tab, this will only show one entry for Chrome, even though you have two windows of Chrome open.For app switching I've set the "Move focus to next window" keyboard shortcut to Option+Tab (don't remember what the default is). This works like Cmd+Tab, except it cycles between windows of the active application (i.e. Chrome windows in the above example). It's really quick and smooth since you just move your thumb between Cmd and Option.There is a slight difference between using Cmd+Tab though - you don't get a preview of the window you're about to switch to, so it's sometimes a bit clumsy if you have many windows open. To solve this I have three-finger swipe down set to display all windows of the focused app (called App Exposé). Don't remember whether this is default behavior. But with this you actually see all windows, which makes it even better than Cmd+Tab in this regard (which only shows icons).The above two in combination work very well for me and window management is a breeze.For window snapping I use BetterTouchTool[0] (paid app), but agree that if you need to get corporate IT's blessing to install apps then it's a hassle. Another app I couldn't live without: Alfred[1]. Just its clipboard history management and snippets make it awesome, but it can do so much more, like Workflows which I use a lot for various things). And iTerm2[2] is great.So in conclusion I agree with OP - if I was forced to use a vanilla installation then I'd prefer most Linux DE's, but being able to install a couple of apps I simply love MacOS and would have a really tough time transitioning back to Linux (been a MacOS user now for almost 7 years, before that 10 years of Linux).[0] <a href="https://folivora.ai/" rel="nofollow">https://folivora.ai/</a>[1] <a href="https://www.alfredapp.com/" rel="nofollow">https://www.alfredapp.com/</a>[2] <a href="https://iterm2.com/" rel="nofollow">https://iterm2.com/</a>

paxysabout 3 years ago

File management is another one I'd like to add to the list of macOS screwups. How can viewing lists of files and moving them over from one place to another be so complicated?

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hprotagonistabout 3 years ago

i used to be totally fine with the macOS desktop manager experience.then i went in hard on i3.now, macOS feels ungainly.

gen220about 3 years ago

Re: cmd+tab issues, consider trying cmd+space+(first letter or two of the app), followed by cmd+`.Especially for touch typists, I think it's faster than cmd+tab: doesn't require you to use your mental "app icon classifier", and it's impossible to over/under-shoot the target.Scales O(N), where N is the number of windows open in the app you're switching to, whereas cmd+tab + cmd+` is O(N) + O(M), where M is the number of apps you have running.

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Sharlinabout 3 years ago

> Apple decided to grace the 2021 Macbook Pro with ports that any PC laptop user has had for years (HDMI?! SD card reader?! gasp!).To be fair, MBPs also had those for years, until Apple in its wisdom decided to ditch them in 2016, along with making other questionable interface decisions that they've been gradually reverting since then. I still use a 2015 MBP partially for that reason. Now it's probably become a time to upgrade to a M1 model.

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bastardoperatorabout 3 years ago

Not sure I'm buying the "I need to get everything I install blessed by IT security" and "Homebrew is a lifesaver on macOS" story...

vbezhenarabout 3 years ago

For me many macos things are weird.One of the latest ones: to create new window for safari you have to press Cmnd+N. But if safari is maximized, you have to press Cmnd+Alt+N. Why? No idea.And the fact that I have to manually adjust safari window width to make it full screen without hiding other interface elements is even more weird. Some apps support alt+maximize, some do not. Safari is latter. Definitely no technical reason.

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notshuttingdownabout 3 years ago

Something OP didn't mention, but miffs me about macOS is the way it handles full screen apps.macOS takes the entire app full screen in a separate desktop and doesn't allow other windows to overlap.Cmd + Tab during full screen triggers a 1 sec animation as it switches workspaces... so if someone texts you on your iPhone during a video, you can't just peek at the Messages app with the video in the background :'(

urbandw311erabout 3 years ago

My favourite tool to modify most aspects of the OS is BetterTouchTool.I have it set to move the window under the mouse cursor when I hold down Fn — and if I also hold down shift then it resizes the window under the mouse cursor until I release ShiftIt must have saved me, in aggregate, hundreds of hours as I no longer have to care about finding the top or edge of a window to move/resize.Try it! An absolute game changer for productivity.

jihadjihadabout 3 years ago

I totally get the window switching thing, especially if one of the windows is minimized. In that case, hovering over the window using Cmd + Tab will not open the window. You have to press Option while simultaneously letting go of the Cmd key.The only other major thing is how terrible Finder is out of the box. There are ways to make it less terrible, but it's still far less than ideal in usability.

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merdaverseabout 3 years ago

Completely agree withe window management part. I find it easy to work on Win/Ubuntu with multiple desktops and Alt+Tab, but the overly complicated flow of Command+Tab makes this impossible on Mac.So I just end up with most of the stuff on one desktop and using spotlight with the trackpad to switch. But props to Apple for having the smoothest spotlight implementation of the three.

tethikabout 3 years ago

I had to use a Mac for my last job and it was awful. Coming from a customized tiling window-manager setup on Linux that I've slowly tinkered with over the years, everything UX-wise was such a slog for me.I'm not recommending linux for everyone. Far from it. But if you want the best experience and don't mind tinkering, I think it's the best you can get currently.

freyrabout 3 years ago

To be fair, my first time returning to a Linux desktop after 10+ years of MacOS was marked by feelings of contempt and disgust.Not to say MacOS is objectively better or that it gets everything right. But any time you’re thrust into an unfamiliar workflow, it’s frustrating. You want things to work the way you’re used to. Eventually you learn to appreciate what works, and work around what doesn’t.

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hn_99about 3 years ago

I moved from windows to Mac when I switched jobs a few months ago. The biggest thing I miss is the ability to have a separate Taskbar entry for each window of a program. I have many windows of the same IDE open at once and I'd like to be able to switch between them quickly. Is something like this possible in Mac, maybe through a FOSS app?

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mr_o47about 3 years ago

I would agree on macOS window management it can be pretty painful especially if you are coming from Linux i3 background

godelskiabout 3 years ago

I also really dislike that you can literally push a window off screen. It is weird to me that you can push a window 99.99% off screen.That said, I prefer Mac over windows. It is close enough to linux and has crazy good battery life. Now that I'm not using C++ anymore and mostly python the differences aren't too big.

Hnrobert42about 3 years ago

I wonder if any of the UI sugar the author misses is not there because of patents. Like, does MS have a patent on window snapping who won’t license to Apple, but let’s small companies slide? I think the GPL is why Apple ships with such outdated BASH and switched to ZSH for the default shell.

MrManabout 3 years ago

I go between ubuntu, Mac, and increasingly rarely windows which for many years was my daily. I am not fully at home in any of them but they are all good enough now that it doesn't matter. most of my time is ubuntu machines through jump desktop

tnsengimanaabout 3 years ago

I think the author is being overly pessimistic about Mac software. I did not find anything utterly "eye-rolling" from his article, besides a few nitpicks that are reasonable from someone accustomed to linux/window.

dddddavidddddabout 3 years ago

I've been using macOS since version 8.5, and lots of things have stayed the same since then and are familiar today. However, there's a lot that's unintuitive for a new user that's maybe there just because of inertia.

kaetemiabout 3 years ago

Huh. People actually use window snapping? Interesting. Never seen anyone use it myself.

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nurgasemeteyabout 3 years ago

I had also same complaints as author in <a href="https://www.nurgasemetey.com/what-i-lack-in-osx-after-linux/" rel="nofollow">https://www.nurgasemetey.com/what-i-lack-in-osx-after-linux/</a>

petesergeantabout 3 years ago

> Homebrew ... is the only thing not making me pull my hair outoh you just wait, sweet summer child

SPBSabout 3 years ago

What a coincidence, everything that the author is complaining about I have an third party application to make up for- Window management (Magnet)- Command-tab (Contexts)I guess this means corporate-enforced macOS (no downloading of unapproved apps) would be a nightmare for users.

rrdharanabout 3 years ago

I’m amused that the author is allowed to install Logi Options (a massive electron bundling steaming pile of … from a company with a dodgy track record) and not Rectangle or AltTab.Also no mention made of the Cmd-~ vs Cmd-Tab distinction.

geephrohabout 3 years ago

That's just like, your opinion, man.But, seriously, I've become so accustomed to the many shortcomings of macOS UX that using anything else would be like living in a house without loose doorknobs and sloping floors. Embrace the suck.

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ppeetteerrabout 3 years ago

The only negative is around window management and you can install helpers for this.

gueloabout 3 years ago

Yep, as a user of both the window manager is the main area where mac loses. Also keyboard shortcuts are more comprehensive and available on Windows. But that's about it, MacOS is superior on most other things.

iamcreasyabout 3 years ago

I have similar issues like the author but the comments in this thread have solved some of those problem.I also moved from Windows to MacOS. What was the purpose behind introducing ctrl, opt and cmd button? What do they stand for?

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aeturnumabout 3 years ago

I think Moom is one of the best reccs for OSX in general: <a href="https://manytricks.com/moom/" rel="nofollow">https://manytricks.com/moom/</a>Will let you snap windows the way you expect.

markdownabout 3 years ago

> On the other hand, macOS has a weird snapping implementation where you need to click and hold the green “zoom” button, then choose to “tile” left or rightTIL, and I've been using MacOS and OS X for almost 15 years.

als0about 3 years ago

> While macOS isn’t POSIX-certified, it is Single Unix Specification UNIX 03 registered and compliant.This sounds wrong. Isn’t POSIX a mandatory subset of the Single Unix Specification? Hence it is inherently certified.

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datavirtueabout 3 years ago

I know die hard old devs that are Mac fanboys and the first thing they do is turn off "natural" scrolling. I know because I had to ask them if I was holding it wrong. Couldn't believe it.

ghostpepperabout 3 years ago

The window management grips are fair, although I don't find Cmd + ` to be particularly burdensome - it's right above tab on the keyboard, and my KDE Plasma desktop behaves the exact same way.

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ImaCakeabout 3 years ago

Did not know about alttab.app for macOS. That really was the last gripe I had about macOS. alttab + rectangle gets you back to Windows/Linux style window management anyway.

throwmeariver1about 3 years ago

ITT: Let me tell you why you should take my anecdotal evidence and subjective preferences serious while I also dismiss your anecdotal evidence and subjective preferences.

danielyaa5about 3 years ago

I think it’s unfair to compare OS X to both Linux and windows. You’re basically double teaming. Also comes off as bias to have only cons for the software.

Sporktacularabout 3 years ago

There seem to be utilities to address/work around a lot of this stuff. Wonder how much his experience would have improved if he had admin rights.

can16358pabout 3 years ago

I get if someone wants to move to Linux from macOS, but Windows?Every time I need to work with Windows, I think switching from Windows to Mac was one of the greatest decisions of my life.And I'm saying this as a person who still have used Windows more than Mac in his life, time-wise. That whole OS is a mess.I think the author will get used to macOS by time. I complained about similar stuff initially, but then got used to everything pretty quickly and those are just very minor issues that definitely do not outweigh the benefits.

jack_ppabout 3 years ago

I tried the m1 mini when it came out because I was hyped by all the m1 HN talk. This was my first time using macOS and besides the window management what I loathed was having to re-learn all the shortcuts I've been using for 20+ years, how no one mentions this is baffling to me. I tried to make it work more like "normal" windows / linux but I didn't find any good options and I always felt like I was running with my shoelaces untied.I'll stick with my linux i3 env for the foreseeable future

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cutlerabout 3 years ago

Homebrew isn't the only game in town. I've been using MacPorts without issue since I bought my first Mac in late 2003.

badrabbitabout 3 years ago

A very fair assessment by OP. Mac window management isn't great but I personallu got around to getting used to it.

hexteriaabout 3 years ago

Discovering Rectangle and AltTab were the keys to overcoming my productivity issues with macOS. So much better now

imwillofficialabout 3 years ago

As a decades long Mac user, all these points are fair and worth reading. Apple, hope you’re paying attention.

woahabout 3 years ago

The only actual criticism was that it doesn't do window tiling the same as Linux

abledonabout 3 years ago

there is a hidden feature buried deep inside mac accesibility options whic let you do a double finger 'dobule click' with only one touch.IT IS THE KILLER APP for macOS. If I hadn't discovered it years ago I'd be so distraught

jaunkstabout 3 years ago

So the UX is worse than Linux, and Windows? I don't believe that for one second.

johmueabout 3 years ago

yeah, hardly a rant. Hardly any serious problems. Homebrew IS the package manager for apple, get a window-snapping tool and/or learn to use alt-click on the green "maximise window button". Keep enjoying. Done.

2143about 3 years ago

The only real deal breaker for me is the package management system on Mac.

shahbabyabout 3 years ago

Windows comes with more than you need.MacOS comes doesn't come with enough.

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dsegoabout 3 years ago

Waiting for the reverse culture shock in a few years.

amits1995about 3 years ago

as an Ubuntu user, I also got a new Mac in my new place. I survived a day before switching back to XPS+Ubuntu. I have a list of things that were horrible but I'd like to add one in particular which is that dock auto-hide is a complete mess, so not intuitive and when you want it to show it doesn't show and vice versa.

h3cateabout 3 years ago

spectacle will solve your snapping problems. gives windows / Linux snapping.

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simonsgabout 3 years ago

Just means u r not adoptable

bedersabout 3 years ago

command+backtick is the key he was looking for :)

agentdrekabout 3 years ago

I miss IRIX.

teekertabout 3 years ago

I recently got my first iPhone, and I just couldn't get past how annoying some things were. But now, after about 1 year I don't feel like that at all anymore, perhaps I'll feel them now when I go back... This is what I wrote down at the time:* Tried installing Signal 4 times, it failed on the apple account generation and no further clues that it didn't or did install signal (it didn't).* You can't just put icons on the bottom of screen, where your thumb is... need to fill the top with other icons first to get important stuff on the bottom. (The start screen fills from the top, so to say, very annoying).* Love the privacy notice that say they won't share anything that is not needed for functioning, feels good.* App store does not start with search.. so I feel a bit lost at first.* Confirm app installs with side button twice, bit weird. Especially when you have the phone in your left hand.* Absolutely maddening that it keeps correcting my .nl email adres to .nul (android leaves non text field alone as far as I'm aware).* Nextcloud picture not available to Signal? I Synced some folder of nice pics for profile pics. Where are they?* No intro at all into UI... After a week or so, I got a sort of set if intro cards which were quite helpful.* Almost all of my selfhosted apps are represented, very nice (NextCloud, Home Assistant, WireGuard)* Top suggestion in app store is never what you are looking for or searched for. Pretty strange. Can we change that? Ah I learned later that the first one is an ad, you can see it because there dark blue around it (???)..* Many controls are at the top when I can't reach them. In Android I feel that that is much more avoided.* Video pauses when taking a quick look at notification tray, I don't like that.* Notification tray is on the left side, the settings on the right. But not on the lock screen, then it's a swipe up... (I got used to this after some time)* Can't drag to folder onto lower bar/icon area (maybe fixed in iOS 15)* Pull down in middle of screen brings up Siri, not notifications, I'd swap that, now notifications really require a stretch of your hand, or that awkward small swipe down at the bottom. I turned Siri of when she started interrupting my meetings.* I set Firefox as the standard browser yet both telegram and Signal (so far) always open Safari.* Photos contains every image, not just photos, it's more like a gallery.* Why is it not grouping notifications? Notifications were quite confusing at first, but I got used to it. Especially the difference in notifications and bars (stroken in dutch).* Auto correct does not uncorrect on backspace. Language switching does seem to go very well. It ofter autocorrects my last work AFTER I press send. Absolutely maddening.* Swipe to type only seems available for English (fixed in iOS 15)* Notification dots sometimes stuck on Nextcloud or other apps, I turned them off on some apps.* Swiping in photos app is un-intuitive... but once used to it it works well and is consistent, ie it also work in chat apps like signal, close picture, swipe down. Details, swipe up.* Printing worked without an app, but unable to change size or anything. Everything is printed at 25%? Samsung/HP print apps are absolute crap.* Red dots are not synced with open notifications, when I dismiss a notification I want the red dot gone. hotspot keeps shutting down after some time, annoying.* I had 652 mb is data on iCloud no idea what it was, I didn't think about it and now stuffis in the cloud.* In the android notification tray curation can happen, on iOS it feels like a mess (not anymore after a year)* Alarm is confusing, not the same sound for the health alarm as the other and weird to change an alarm. Also weird to turn the alarm off* Replying to an email and adding a couple of consecutive pictures is a very difficult.* Widgets feel connected, updating the calendar and closing it makes it swoop back into the widget and the widget has the changes I made. On android I was used to it being normal that widget would still need some time to update, later on, to represent my changes.* One gets a report screen use report about next week, tap it, it takes you to the current week :s

nativeitabout 3 years ago

I am an I.T. consultant and use Windows machines daily for work. I used DOS as a kid in the 1980's, and Windows from v3.1 through to 10/11 today. About five years ago I chose to turn all my home PC's into Linux machines while I worked through a Linux Sysadmin bootcamp curricula that used to be popular on Reddit, and became fluent with Debian and CentOS before moving back to Windows almost entirely because I never found a decent alternative to Photoshop (GIMP has always been painful to use for me, but I think that's just my own muscle memory having used Corel and Adobe products since the mid-1990's). I rather enjoyed my time with Linux, and the skills I learned along the way have never stopped contributing to my life in positive ways both personally and professionally.18-months ago it was time to upgrade my primary desktop, and I decided to completely change my personal computing platform once again after reading about the performance of the M1 chipset. With my curiosity piqued, I looked and found that new M1 Mac Minis were comparatively very affordable (under $1k), so figured I'd take the plunge. Maybe it's because I'm something of a masochist and rather enjoy the experience of exploring new systems and UI paradigms, but even using a Windows-style keyboard and mouse, I thought MacOS was an enjoyable and intuitive (if somewhat rigid) experience.What surprised me most, and I'm kind of perplexed that it hasn't been mentioned elsewhere in this comment section, was how powerful the built-in tools for customization and automation were. Applescript and Automator are kind of like having a natively integrated AutoIT scripting engine. I don't miss WSL since I have ZSH (or BASH) readily available out of the box, and Macports and Homebrew do a reasonably good job of package management (they have their strengths and weaknesses when compared to APT, but I have not had to spend nearly as much time chasing down missing packages as I did when I was running Debian and CentOS).The other pleasant surprise was the unparalleled quality of most of the software available, particularly with Apple's mobile OS when compared to Android. Anyone who uses a mobile device to write/record/produce/perform music is seriously missing out if they aren't using an iPad, and Logic Pro on MacOS is easily one of the best DAW's I've ever used at a fraction of the price of others (I will grant that DAW's are even more highly influenced by personal factors than even OSes are, so I won't go so far as to assert it's "better" than any others). Yes, Apple's software development ecosystem is more closed and restrictive, for everything in their AppStore especially, but that comes with increased security, privacy, and stability. The other upside, and the reason iOS/iPad OS apps are frequently so much nicer, is that developers can generally spend less time/effort worrying about all of the wildly variable hardware platforms and custom launchers their apps must support--with any possible slip up resulting in a potentially ruinous slew of negative reviews.For all the dozens of people complaining about window switching--if you're on a Macbook, the three-finger swipe to move between desktops/full-screen apps is frankly a joy when working between two applications. For everything else, I use a 21:9 widescreen monitor that makes side-by-side windows a natural experience.It did take a lot of getting used to some of the differences, but honestly, I embrace the somewhat creative mental burst I get by leaving my comfort zone, and if you come at these different approaches with an open mind, a little patience, and a willingness to adapt when needed or to find workarounds otherwise--MacOS has a lot of great features for anyone who works with creative workloads or software development, and the integration with desktop and mobile devices is unbelievably good compared to anything else. But I honestly have never really understood the tribalism that exists with tech brands and Mac/PC or Android/iPhone squabbles. I have found ways of enjoying all of them for what they are good at, and screaming at them for what they aren't.

borlandabout 3 years ago

This is full of stuff that isn't actually a problem, he just hasn't learnt how to use macOS yet.> SnappingYes, macOS does suck in this regard. I can only hope they address it in the future.> unlike Windows or Linux, you can’t “maximize” a window using the green “zoom” buttonHold down option when you click the green button. Annoying that Apple made this undiscoverable, but nevertheless it works and is built-in> Command+TabmacOS does this differently than windows or linux. I prefer the macOS way. Shrug? This is not a problem in macOS though. Your cheese got moved, deal with it :-)> However, that keyboard doesn’t have the Option (⌥) or Command (⌘) keys like on my Macbook. This makes using keyboard shortcuts difficult due to the keys being switched, but I don’t blame Apple for this. I tried changing the modifier keys in System Preferences–>Keyboard, but that broke other keyboard shortcuts.I'm not sure what he did here, but I've been using system preferences to swap the Windows and Alt keys so they match Option and Cmd, for over a decade and it works flawlessly. I can only assume he's misunderstanding something?> However, plugging in a mouse with a scroll wheel means the scroll wheel is “backward”. Thankfully, I was able to download Logitech’s Options software to reverse this.There's a checkbox in system prefs for that, you don't need any crazy logitech junk!

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