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War of memes: Why Z-war won't end with peace

90 pointsby boffinismabout 3 years ago

10 comments

coolhoodyabout 3 years ago
(I&#x27;m Russian). This war was started by a single madman. If not him, it would never happen. Even his spy chief was fucked up [0] when he realized what&#x27;s going to happen.<p>Yes — at least 70% support whatever he does — and I tried hard to disprove this painful fact to myself. But couldn&#x27;t.<p>The only excuse is the 20 years of hardcore TV brainwashing — but it&#x27;s not too great of an excuse. Better than in nazi Germany, but not enough.<p>All that cultural banter the article mentions never caused any <i>actual</i> sense of war — it was more like a Texan joking about a Canadian.<p>I don&#x27;t know how to live with this shame. Can&#x27;t even post in Russian, at local forums. All those stupid faces in the &#x27;do you support the war&#x27; Youtube steet interviews… Yes, there are others — Navalny was poisoned, and is now behind the bars. Nemtsov was murdered in front of Kremlin long before the war. Kasparov, Nevzorov condemned this crime. Hundreds of thousands of IT left the country — unable to fight unarmed. But still…<p>Trying to drown myself in English, jokes, work to keep the sanity. Doesn&#x27;t work half of the times. Jokes clumsy, work fucked.<p>Ukraine is now a moral leader of Europe. It will be restored — every single broken window. And people will live free and proud. It&#x27;s my only bright cloud now.<p>[0] Fucked up spy chief — <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;ucEs0nBuowE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;ucEs0nBuowE</a>
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eimrineabout 3 years ago
As someone who consumes most information from Russian language I can confirm this is true. Even truer than we Ukrainians learn about us and about Russia on our history lessons in school.
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twoquestionsabout 3 years ago
This guy&#x27;s insight has been enlightening, and highlights how alien Russian Authoritarian thought is compared to Western Individualist thought.<p>One thing that&#x27;s been especially shocking is the relatively low status the military has, which seems insane to us here in the West. Here, it&#x27;s &quot;Thank you for your service!&quot;, there it&#x27;s a very low-status thing. It makes more sense once you realize the military represents a coup risk for a dictator, and has to be kept politically weak to preserve the State. Our military&#x27;s undying loyalty to our civilian governments is something we here in the West take for granted, and is severely underrated.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;threadreaderapp.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;1502673952572854278.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;threadreaderapp.com&#x2F;thread&#x2F;1502673952572854278.html</a>
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simonhabout 3 years ago
Very interesting taken alongside this strategic analysis of Russian thinking by a former Finnish intelligence officer, from 2018. He&#x27;s approaching the topic from a bit of a different angle, but coming to very similar conclusions. There are subtitles in multiple languages.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kF9KretXqJw" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=kF9KretXqJw</a>
bluetomcatabout 3 years ago
It&#x27;s the uniform culture of Eastern Orthodox countries. The state pushes a &quot;one and only&quot; historical narrative in the nation-wide educational system. That narrative is internalised by most of the population as hard objective truths, rather than seen as just a subjective view.<p>The notion that a sub-community may evolve and try to self-identify and govern itself is inconceivable when &quot;history&quot; tells us that they were us, so there must be some decadent external influences affecting them.
pydryabout 3 years ago
It&#x27;s an interesting take but I think it makes a common error of confusing the propaganda used to justify going to war with the actual reasons.<p>This is critical because the propaganda reasons are slaved to the real reasons and wont figure much if at all in peace talks.<p>Caspian report has a good video on the geographical and political imperatives behind the war: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=MkrLUFAcjH0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;m.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=MkrLUFAcjH0</a>
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bayesian_horseabout 3 years ago
Sources inside Russia claim that even the military and intelligence service didn&#x27;t see the war coming, and they certainly performed like it. Maybe a few days before it started, but certainly not for weeks or years.
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he0001about 3 years ago
It may explain why there are some Russians that are expressing such blind hatred towards Ukraine as a state and Ukrainians as a people. Just referring to some of the media personalities that express this frequently.
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baybal2about 3 years ago
I&#x27;m a Russian citizen. My late parents sent me off to Singapore when it became clear that Russia is done for as a country in 2007.<p>What they told me &quot;you can&#x27;t stay human if you will live in Russia.&quot;
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goatsneezabout 3 years ago
I do not find these kind of rants very informative regardless which direction they come from. I can give many such examples featuring similar uprooted emotional selectivists, even hateful stories marginalizing (or extolling) entire cultures&#x2F;nations from nearly any country (most being familiar with Palestine, Israel, Poland, Slovakia, Czech, Germany, Ukraine, Russia, Vietnam, US, and few others). If one wants to cherry-pick on atrocities one-against-the-other for the above examples there are libraries and archives which, I guarantee, will break any sane person&#x27;s heart. Those are real things that happened and they are just as well lessons to us, individually, of what any of us is capable of doing under the &quot;wrong&quot; circumstances. And we have to guard our humanity, individually, against indiscriminate hate -a poison that corrodes the soul - no matter how noble the perceived goal].<p>However, the weight of my comment is to be put somewhere else. I observe that in majority of such opinions (that serve its function as an outlet, but nothing more) there is simply no actual conceptual understanding (at least as reflected in the articles) of culture, society, state in relation to the individual as a process. This lack of concepts just digs a proverbial hole for the speaker&#x2F;persuator from one cannot asses the past-present relation properly from principled laws of organization. Then we have over-emotional individual reactions to propaganda (on either side) which invites to such unstructured one dimensional banal analyses. There is no acknowledgement on limits of knowledge and validity of simply having different opinion on the matter, no distinction of what is personal, what is political, what is bureaucratic, what is a comment, opinion, what is propaganda, instead just thrown everything into one big flux, the antithesis of what intellect needs. No lessons, just brute misplaced hate, almost as if to confirm ones own feelings looking into the mirror; exemplified in the silly conclusion:<p>... that &quot;Russians hate that Ukraine exists&quot; ... (such sounds are produced also by the archetypal propagandists)
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