TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

The end of Insteon and why the smart home keeps faltering

82 pointsby vanburenabout 3 years ago

29 comments

gh02tabout 3 years ago
The reason these companies keep faltering is that they push cloud-based and&#x2F;or locked in product ecosystems. Then they are either forced to a) operate on a pyramid scheme where new customers finance the ongoing costs of existing users or b) a subscription model that gives them a strong incentive to keep customers as locked into their ecosystem as possible. Either of these leave customers high and dry when the house of cards finally collapses, and since the products are cloud based (especially in case B where a lot of companies force you into cloud <i>only</i> access) your devices become bricks.<p>I&#x27;m not sure Matter is going to solve this because it doesn&#x27;t do away with this business model. Zigbee and Zwave have been great options for ages that offer a lot of the same benefits with respect to local control and portability (as does Homekit to an extent), but people continue to buy into closed ecosystems like Insteon and then get burned. Of course companies like Wink and SmartThings have managed to build cloud lock in on top of Zigbee and Zwave, I can see Matter helping with that part of the issue if we can get interoperability at the controller level.
评论 #31123372 未加载
评论 #31123800 未加载
评论 #31124073 未加载
评论 #31126743 未加载
评论 #31127731 未加载
评论 #31123843 未加载
评论 #31128376 未加载
评论 #31123506 未加载
exabrialabout 3 years ago
It&#x27;s a device that doesn&#x27;t need to be cloud connected... that&#x27;s cloud connected.<p>Smart home stuff needs a local network to the home, that&#x27;s it. A server going down in Virginia shouldn&#x27;t mean a person can&#x27;t run their vacuum robot.
评论 #31123452 未加载
评论 #31123344 未加载
评论 #31123368 未加载
评论 #31123269 未加载
评论 #31123183 未加载
aethersonabout 3 years ago
The reason why the smart home keeps faltering is that it provides little value to the customers. It&#x27;s not the cloud, or the monetization schemes, it&#x27;s that it turns out that flipping light switches or pressing a button on the thermostat is not a big pain point for people, and using smart-home technology is as often <i>inferior</i> to old dumb tech as it is superior.
评论 #31125563 未加载
评论 #31126369 未加载
评论 #31126847 未加载
orevabout 3 years ago
The problem with home automation companies is they have a perspective and culture of a hardware manufacturer who never understood software. They want to build a device, wire it up, sell it, then forget about it.<p>For decades they have tried to get around the software part by outsourcing a one-time job to the lowest bidder, and then never want to update them. They’re more like the industrial automation companies (some of whom still have Windows XP machines running their CNCs), or medical device makers who get something certified with an exact version of Windows and never allow it to update.<p>Add to that, the Marketing guys who pitch unrealistic goals that need to be met in order for their plan to become profitable (“we can easily capture 50% of this market in our locked-in, proprietary protocol!”), and you have a train wreck any one can see coming a mile away.<p>These are companies who just don’t understand, and don’t want to understand, that these are long-term commitments that require full time development and operations staff to keep things going.
blamazonabout 3 years ago
The article talks about how Matter will save everything. What the heck? Don&#x27;t we already have zigbee and Z-wave that work fine? Why do we need another communications protocol?
评论 #31123541 未加载
评论 #31125237 未加载
评论 #31123852 未加载
评论 #31123490 未加载
dvhabout 3 years ago
I am a programmer, after a long day of debugging crappy code, I don&#x27;t want to spend my free time debugging someone else&#x27;s crappy code. All my appliances are as dumb as possible. All my light switches are simple mechanical on&#x2F;off switches. The 12:00 on my kitchen stove was blinking for 11 years and I don&#x27;t plan to change it.
adam_arthurabout 3 years ago
They fail because cost to produce&#x2F;operate is higher than value to the consumer.<p>These companies need to either get much leaner, or change strategies.<p>The market for a $200 internet connected door handle is pretty small. I&#x27;m sure a lot of these products could work with a target margin of 5-10%. Who would invest into that idea though? Haha
darksaintsabout 3 years ago
Every &quot;smart home&quot; system out there wants that sweet sweet recurring subscription cash, but the cross section of people who want smart home features and those who are wary of vendor lock-in is pretty damn big.<p>Commoditize your complement. Stop trying to make money on cloud services, and open source your cloud software, or provide it as a service for a nominal break-even fee. Make your money on hardware instead.
tristanperryabout 3 years ago
(Disclosure: I have a smart home blog and YouTube channel)<p>A nice write-up. Insteon have (had?) some great products, so this is a shame. I do think that Matter will improve things a little, but we&#x27;ll see - owning hardware from a bankrupt company naturally isn&#x27;t great if the device breaks down...<p>LIFX (one of the most popular smart lights, aside from Philips Hue) have been having various troubles recently too:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smarthomepoint.com&#x2F;is-lifx-in-business&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.smarthomepoint.com&#x2F;is-lifx-in-business&#x2F;</a><p>They are keen to stress that this is only affecting their owner, but in reality many LIFX customers have recently had issues with support tickets and warranty claims going unanswered.<p>The only good news is that LIFX support local control, meaning that HomeAssistant and Hubitat can still control them even if LIFX&#x27;s cloud servers get switched off.<p>Nonetheless, reports of LIFX and Insteon struggling&#x2F;disappearing is never encouraging. Especially when combined with recent (negative) subscription changes by Wyze and Wink.
bradgesslerabout 3 years ago
After setting up over 100 IoT devices in my home, I’m convinced this industry needs to be regulated if it wants any shot at succeeding.<p>Here’s what needs to be required:<p>1. An IoT device should be capable of functioning without any sort of “smart” features. For example, a remote controlled lamp should have a physical switch on it that allows it to operate like a dumb lamp.<p>2. A device should be capable of integrating with the rest of the home network without depending on the public internet or external services. This means said lamp can be turned on and off by a smart switch or phone that’s in the same LAN.<p>3. Smart devices must be accessible without registering an account with the device manufacturer. This is one of the most egregious parts about IoT today—most vendors require an email and password to login and setup or control the device, which is absurd on so many levels with respect to privacy and when the company goes bust like Insteon.<p>These 3 things would put an end to most of the IoT shenanigans we see happening today.
______-_-______about 3 years ago
Let&#x27;s say I want to dip my toe into smart homes, maybe get a smart light switch or two. I care about:<p>- privacy<p>- staying out of the cloud (so things like TFA don&#x27;t affect me)<p>- an open protocol interoperable between vendors<p>Can anyone recommend a good &quot;for dummies&quot; guide written from that angle? I know that software-wise Home Assistant is generally recommended, but how do you decide what hardware to get?
评论 #31123397 未加载
评论 #31124664 未加载
评论 #31123543 未加载
评论 #31123380 未加载
评论 #31129068 未加载
评论 #31123860 未加载
评论 #31125131 未加载
评论 #31124819 未加载
评论 #31123540 未加载
评论 #31129091 未加载
评论 #31124668 未加载
cptskippyabout 3 years ago
The really unfortunate thing is that Insteon predated internet based smart home infrastructure. The protocol was completely local and almost all devices work offline.<p>Insteon could have been an example of how to fail gracefully by updating their hubs with mDNS support and updating their Apps to use local discovery and the already existing local API that all Hubs support. They could have sent a farewell email to customers and given them a solution that would have worked for a few years at least.<p>Instead they squandered whatever limited resources they had left and then shuttered their service abruptly and went into hiding leaving everyone in a lurch. They couldn&#x27;t have even bothered with an email notice a month ahead of their shutdown.
etchalonabout 3 years ago
This is why, for all the shit it gets, Apple&#x27;s HomeKit was always the sole ecosystem I would&#x2F;will buy into.<p>But it&#x27;s also why it&#x27;s the least popular one for manufacturers.<p>HomeKit accessories can keep working, even if the manufacture disappears.
WheelsAtLargeabout 3 years ago
Home automation needs a standard all companies can get behind. Right now, there are multiple standards so it&#x27;s hard for customers to decide which to choose. We need companies to adopt one that will be the standard so consumers can feel comfortable with the one that&#x27;s chosen without having to think about what standard to choose and whether it will be supported in the future. Wifi is a very good example of what is possible. Home automation companies should follow that example.<p>If that&#x27;s not possible then a large tech company should dominate the industry. It should not be Google since they have a bad reputation of taking on projects and dumping them once they feel that their are no near term profits. Microsoft is more focused on business products so they will have a hard time moving forward with the project.<p>It needs to be Apple. They have the customers that are willing to adopt the product just because it&#x27;s an Apple product. They can charge a premium and make the product the best it can be. And since home automation fits well with their other products they can be patient while people adopt it. Also, you can&#x27;t dismiss the products design. Right now most home automation products need to be hidden from view since they aren&#x27;t very stylish. Apple would change that.<p>I think Apple should focus on home automation as their next hardware product category. Forget the car, they have a huge opportunity in putting order into the home automation industry.
gxtabout 3 years ago
Domotics should be mandated to always work offline, and all deathly hazards should be denied any network io. I don&#x27;t want to discover my oven has a 0day by finding my home on fire.
xyzzy21about 3 years ago
The value-proposition of &quot;smart home&quot; has NEVER been convincingly constructed. This goes back to the days of X10 remote control systems, while at the same time never has the cost been reasonable. I&#x27;ve followed this stuff since the 1970s and honestly it&#x27;s never been worth it as a consumer.<p>Anything with &quot;Cloud&quot; or &quot;Account&quot; to simply use it an automatic 100% no-go for me. I was looking for a new weather station recently - the &quot;nicest&quot; and most elegant one required both an internet account and cloud connection plus all the data had to be uploaded to the cloud even to just access it in my house. It allowed a BLE access if and only if you were in range but that was unusable based on other BLE range limits I&#x27;ve had.<p>So because of that barrier to entry I noped out completely. If it&#x27;s cloud, I don&#x27;t buy!<p>What I actually wanted: a remote weather station with a local internet server capability that could stay off the cloud and operate if (actually WHEN) the internet goes down - we have only 2-9&#x27;s on power reliability in the boonies - i.e. we lose power for about 3-4 days a year, every year.<p>Instead I&#x27;m now looking at &quot;separate components&quot; and &quot;homebrew&quot; instead as well as looking at &quot;professional grade&quot; stuff.
twblalockabout 3 years ago
The bottom line is that a lot of these smart devices put more burden on the customer than traditional devices — not less.<p>I don’t remember the last time I had to fix or upgrade a malfunctioning traditional light switch or doorknob. I just never think about them.<p>On the other hand, every smart device I’ve bought has bugged me multiple times a year because of wifi or other network drops, or battery changes, or needing to log back in to my accounts.
评论 #31123549 未加载
bombcarabout 3 years ago
The smart home is still running into the &quot;it&#x27;s not simple&#x2F;easy enough&quot;. Apple HomeKit <i>almost</i> gets there, sometimes, but the wireless connections still are flakey, one bulb comes on at a slightly different time than another, etc.<p>It works <i>well enough</i> with someone technical in the house to diagnose, but it is nowhere NEAR reliable enough for people without that.
jvolkmanabout 3 years ago
This is why I use z-wave and Home Assistant.
oxfordmaleabout 3 years ago
My house was built in the 1980s and other than upgrades and repairs pretty much works as is. I don&#x27;t have to pay a monthly subscription to switch on&#x2F;off my lights. Other than repairs, the house will likely work for another 50 years without major upgrades, although the electricity network may have to be updated to accommodate charging electric cars. I haven&#x27;t seen a a single smart home system that is going to last longer than a decade while remaining secure at the same time.<p>I am sure home will get smarter over time, however, it will be in areas where internet connectivity actually pays off, not fads like a internet connected fridge that messages you when it is empty.
specialistabout 3 years ago
Back when I created stuff for hospitals (et al), we had to put our source code in escrow and had dedicated money (an account) to keep misc services running. It seems like these kinds of guarantees should also apply to certain B2C markets too.
t_mannabout 3 years ago
I totally wouldn&#x27;t mind some hardware that lets me flip, turn, push or pull the flips, knobs, buttons, shades,... that I already have in my home in some programmable way that I can control.<p>No way am I going to replace my perfectly functional hardware with some device that relays my data to a cloud service and maybe even ends up bricked if they discontinue support. I&#x27;m actually happy to see this business model is not playing out.
post_breakabout 3 years ago
I just hope Kasa doesn&#x27;t do the same thing. They run my living room lights so perfectly. And I have some random no name garage door opener that works 1000% better than the big name brands, all it does is short two wires, but it&#x27;s wifi and works over google and pings me if the door goes up, closes, or stays open too long. Such peace of mind knowing the door is closed.
kwhitefootabout 3 years ago
What is the smart home supposed to do for me anyway? That&#x27;s the thing that seems to me to be the reason for the failure of many of these companies: they are selling something that most people don&#x27;t need so they rely on people who buy them on a whim.
评论 #31127455 未加载
AlexDragusinabout 3 years ago
The smart home concept can likely become viable once and if we get to have AGI, until then, all this is just scams, pyramid schemes disguised as smart $thing. Oh, look at the sign of that variable, speaks for itself, money it is!
zzzeekabout 3 years ago
I have some insteon crap here that I dont use anymore, but nice of them to not even send out emails that I can now officially throw it all in the garbage...
blable2about 3 years ago
My four full-size ceiling led lights (think old school Florissant size in a square configuration) are independent and triggered by motion with self timed off. Perfect. My front porch lights are similar but just dusk to dawn automatic. Perfect. Oh, the garage door opener is Siri controlled but I can take it off with a bluetooth tag I&#x27;ve been to lazy to setup. Near perfect. Only Google Home is used for IOT to lazily control the temp. I really like my smooth home automation thus far.
jl6about 3 years ago
So do all their products now become e-waste or is there some salvageable value?
评论 #31123286 未加载
评论 #31123335 未加载
评论 #31123773 未加载
kkfxabout 3 years ago
The smart home does not much keeps faltering, it simply does not exits because &quot;smart&quot; IoT devices are essentially crap. That&#x27;s not only smart homes, it&#x27;s also keyboards, phones, TVs, ... to change we need products designed by techies who use them themselves not by some manager with crappy and childish ideas.<p>If you like reading my journe, I have a kind of &quot;smart&quot; home since it&#x27;s a modern one with a small p.v. plant, VMC, big hot water reservoir with heat pump + classic resistance kind-of integrated with the p.v:<p>- very first thing I want is knowing the state of my p.v. NOT needing a third party server on the other side of the planet just to see what my inverters do a meter away from my desktop and even more seen delayed and pruned data because the remote server can&#x27;t handle the number of connected clients. I finally choose Victron and Fronius inverters since the first is nearly open platform (a rebranded Debian) with MQTT and ModBus services by default, the latter have an almost public API, ModBus only but at least a well known open protocol and the hw characteristics I was looking for. Even if both are not exactly cheap devices they look like crappy prototypes in software terms, at least they work.<p>- secondly since I have invested in a hot water system to consume less electricity from the grid I want to integrate it. It was 2017 so before the supply chain&#x2F;China&#x2F;covid&#x2F;war&#x2F;semi&#x2F;* crisis, it was (still is) a Daikin gear not an unknown brand by some obscure seller. &quot;yes, the system can talk ModBus RTU but you need a card, not in stock in 3-4 months you can have it for 350€&quot; (oh, cheap since it&#x27;s just an adapter between a serial proprietary protocol and ModBus but anyway)... Docs are incomplete of course, but in the end it work. However the p.v. integration is limited I can only command &quot;go full power heat pump + resistance&quot; (~3.6kW) or &quot;go only heat pump&quot; (~0.9kW) not for instance &quot;go only resistance since it&#x27;s -10℃ outside and I can barely spare 3kW now&quot;, at least I can programmatically see water temp so decide if it&#x27;s better heat it a bit or not.<p>- third thing the VMC with built-in heat-pump, it talk ModBus natively, only I need a third party ModBus&#x2F;TCP adapter to reach my homeserver, I found one, who curiously need to be configured on the same network card it will work with or it refuse to work (MAC address check, for unknown reasons apparently), again docs are not only bad but also false, some registers does not exists, some others discovered myself are not documented, some range and bitfields are wrong etc, again I manage to get them work but was not that immediate.<p>- forth, by electrical norms I need to measure and show consumed energy by at least heating, hot-water, etc so I need a smart meters. There are many on sale, nearly no one connectable via MQTT&#x2F;ModBus or anything else standard beside passing through some third party server except, one is the new Shelly 4PM witch unfortunately it&#x27;s 16A only, too little for local norms, so I go for another Carlo Giavazzi ET112 (I cite names just because nothing else exists AFAIK on sale) witch works well, but to have more than one one the same serial you need to change device ID by a 40+Mb windows only 32bit GUI crapware and a usb serial adapter that their software like, even if formally is a thing I can do with kermit&#x2F;minicom&#x2F;gtkterm IF someone just document the damns interface.<p>- fifth, since I have done that on a home server (Home Assistant, not something I really like but at least I can deploy via Pip NOT with pre-made out-of-date docker images or entire distro for raspi and co just for a damn small thing I would like thermometers, hygrometers, anemometers etc I can only found very few and very crappy. I would like to integrate portal&#x2F;entryphone, the only usable option found is a hyper-expensive VoIP entryphone system since all the rest works only with some third party &quot;clouds&quot; or can&#x27;t talk to anything else than their own display, proprietary&#x2F;undocumented protocols. Not better for switches etc that are almost all wireless only, unreliable as hell.<p>Long story short: for too many there is no real purpose for a smart home because they do not have real automation use cases, so the really interested market is damn small so far. Those who are really interested can only find crap so most of them avoid going smart as much as possible. OEMs <i>must</i> agree on one&#x2F;few open, common standards (we have some already like the decades old ModBus, slow but simple and the modern, simple and less cheap in electronics terms fast and rich MQTT) and learn to implement good interfaces with good docs and reliable devices instead of pushing Android on hyper-expensive SoC in a fridge. Then smart homes will take off.<p>Unfortunately we do not have vertical knowledge we have OEMs who buy something pre-made by someone else, bolt it in their product hope it will help sales but without even the knowledge needed to understand what they are doing.