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Occupy George

153 pointsby mccooscoosover 13 years ago

13 comments

muonover 13 years ago
"Votes for Women" movement in 1903 used to deface the penny to spread the word.<p>Suffragette-defaced penny : <a href="http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/iVUVhaKVREWjsHrr9IoOOA" rel="nofollow">http://www.bbc.co.uk/ahistoryoftheworld/objects/iVUVhaKVREWj...</a>
Shenglongover 13 years ago
Can someone brief me on what Occupy Wall Street is trying to do? I can't quite figure it out.<p>If they're mad about being unemployed, marching sure isn't going to fix their situation. If they're mad about government corruption, what exactly would they like done? If they're mad about the economy in general, isn't Wall Street the worst place to be protesting? I feel like the traders on Wall Street would be the first people to want an economic bounce back. Do they just hate rich people? Hmm.<p>I've held back on criticizing this movement, but after all this time, I still can't figure out exactly what they want. It's seeming more and more to me, as just a way to waste peoples' times, and our tax dollars.
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hkmurakamiover 13 years ago
This is alarming to me, because this particular act is appears to be pure sensationalism to me. It also takes the numbers grossly out of context.<p>When I saw the "Richest 400 vs Bottom 150,000,000" 50/50 split on one of the bills, my immediate thought was the following:<p>__Do these people consider how many jobs these top 400 people created over the last decades, and how much better off the world is because they existed?__<p>Yes, the US tax structure is flawed. Yes, there are some truly corrupt things going on. But depicting the situation as a "me vs you" situation rather than presenting the situation as a structural issue seems very alarming to me. I know I'm sounding like a lot of random Republican talking heads when criticizing the "class divide" issue of this movement, but why on earth would you classify a man like Bill Gates, who created tens of thousands of jobs for this economy and continues to do great deeds for humanity through his foundation, along with the truly corrupt?<p>Generalizations are dangerous, and I'm concerned.
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scottjadover 13 years ago
"The richest 1% of Americans control over 1/3 of the wealth, leaving the bottom 80% with less than 1/5."<p>This suffers from the pie fallacy covered in <a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/wealth.html</a><p>Also if you look at <a href="http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html" rel="nofollow">http://sociology.ucsc.edu/whorulesamerica/power/wealth.html</a> table 3 you'll see that the distribution of wealth between 1% and 99% in 2007 (which I assume is pretty much the same today) was essentially identical to that of 2001, 1989, 1965, 1939 and 1922.
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iwwrover 13 years ago
The 1% are hardly representative of the true 'ruling elite'. This group is probably around a few hundred people, no more than a few thousand. Wall Street is also not the center of power, but rather Washington DC and the Federal Reserve.
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c4urselfover 13 years ago
Very innovative idea. There is probably a law against writing/printing on money in the U.S., though.
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marcamillionover 13 years ago
The design of the site is awesome...but seriously, this anti-capitalism/populist nonsense is getting ridiculous.
thevinnieover 13 years ago
When I tried to access the site at work (we use Postini for our web filtering), I got the message below. What I found most interesting was the category the site was blocked under.<p>Access Denied The web resource <a href="http://occupygeorge.com/" rel="nofollow">http://occupygeorge.com/</a> has been deemed by your administrator to be unsafe or unsuitable for you to access. The resource has been blocked. No further action is required. Reason: The category of Hate Speech has been blocked by your System Administrator
ppereiraover 13 years ago
There is a lot of interesting research on wealth inequality in the US and around the world. For those interested in looking at data, I suggest the following as a starting point:<p>A historical database of top incomes in several countries: <a href="http://184.168.89.58/sketch/" rel="nofollow">http://184.168.89.58/sketch/</a><p>A nice theoretical starting point on taxation and inequality: <a href="http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0002374" rel="nofollow">http://arxiv.org/pdf/cond-mat/0002374</a> Note that the term used to express trade in the first section of the paper could also be used to model progressive/negative tax rates.<p>Plots of the income going to the top 0.1% above a plot of the US top marginal tax rate (a proxy for the progressivity of the tax scheme): <a href="http://visualecon.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads/percent_income_top_0_1.gif" rel="nofollow">http://visualecon.wpengine.netdna-cdn.com/wp-content/uploads...</a><p>The top 5-10% of incomes tend to follow a pareto distribution which has a very fat tail. If the share owned by the top 0.01% increases, so will the share of the top 0.1% and the top 1%. Conversely, the share of the bottom 90% will decrease. In comparison to the 1970s, the take home pay of the bottom 90% is probably 30% lower just because of these distributional effects, while the relative income of the top 0.1% has increased 5 or 6 times. The next time you see an exorbitantly high CEO salary, it might be worth wondering how it affects you. Likely, many readers here are in the top 95-99% for whom the effect is somewhat neutral.<p>Some argue that inequality is good for growth, and that a rising tide raises all boats, etc. But the literature regarding the correlation between GINI coefficients and long-term growth is weak and not conclusive. When I looked at the data from the income database cited above, I could see little correlation for developed and undeveloped countries. I seem to remember reading an MIT thesis to the same effect.<p>Perfect redistribution and equality would obviously eliminate economic incentives for growth. Near-perfect inequality, might have the same result. The very small fraction of the population in which wealth has condensed would be economically motivated, but the rest of the population that is living on the welfare state (e.g. welfare, minimum wage + EITC) would have a reduced incentive to earn more. A detailed analysis of the EITC is interesting, but peripheral to my point.<p>Furthermore, when inequality varies like a power law, it is easy to see that a rising tide with reduced Pareto coefficient (increased inequality) could lead to a worse outcome for the majority.<p>The obvious way to address inequality is through progressive or redistributive taxation. The theoretical paper linked above shows how increasing progressivity reduces inequality, but this result is also intuitive. With a 100% redistributive tax, one would have perfect equality.<p>Increasing income tax progressivity alters financial incentives and creates incentives for small business and corporations that target the (more affluent) majority. By contrast, flat or regressive taxes alter the economics to favour larger customers. There is a related but much more complex story for international taxation. When corporations accumulate their income in corporate tax havens and then repatriate that income during a "tax holiday", the result is a highly regressive tax system.<p>Many argue about addressing inequality through "job creation" and "big government projects". I don't have a story related to this, but the Canadian data I have looked at makes me a little suspicious. I guess when you inject funds at a single point in the economy (e.g. corporation) and then allow it to trickle down to employees, portions of those funds would be funnelled off at every level of the corporation and the net result may be an increase in inequality. However, if that corporation is performing a valuable social service to the public, then that may mitigate the inequality.<p>I guess my main point is that the story of income inequality is a complex one that is closely related to taxation. As such, it is a policy choice of the government and the people who elect them. If the "99%" feel that they are not satisfied with the deal that has been struck, then they can voice their opinion in the hope that the government will alter that deal.
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LetBindingover 13 years ago
They are protesting the casino economy.
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acosterover 13 years ago
This is more an annoyance to the 99% that gets such bills (many places don't accept defaced banknotes).
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dizidoroover 13 years ago
the problem is mainstream-corporate media is not showing the demands, for those who say the movement has no clear demands, i recommend watching Young Turks : <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCiAG7LF7Q4" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCiAG7LF7Q4</a> and Democracy now! :<a href="http://www.democracynow.org/" rel="nofollow">http://www.democracynow.org/</a>
forensicover 13 years ago
Great hack