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65k fake students enrolled in the California junior college system

174 pointsby SQL2219about 3 years ago

30 comments

adam_arthurabout 3 years ago
A bunch of The Bachelor contestants were also caught taking borderline fraudulent PPP loans.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pagesix.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;28&#x2F;tayshia-adams-and-more-bachelor-alums-got-20k-ppp-loans&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pagesix.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;28&#x2F;tayshia-adams-and-more-bachel...</a><p>These covid programs were certainly a massive handout to the unscrupulous. I feel sorry for those who worked hard and lived frugally, just to get steamrolled by the government money printer.<p>And look how reluctant the Fed and Fiscal were to reign in any of the madness. 0 moves until 8% CPI. Can&#x27;t have housing appreciate at 10% instead of 20%, or stocks at 10 instead of 30 now, can we?<p>Never seen a class of people so eager to take wealth&#x2F;future prosperity from their children
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wildrhythmsabout 3 years ago
Can someone please explain in detail how the fraud works? The article doesn&#x27;t fully explain how the is money distributed to the fraudsters.<p>With FAFSA, the assistance is all encapsulated away from the student- you apply for an assistance loan (requires SSN), an account is created for you, the college is hooked up directly to that account, so you never actually handle the cash. How does this specific fraud actually work?
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shrubbleabout 3 years ago
This reminds me of Roman times, when generals would inflate the number of soldiers under them, get paid then pocket the difference.<p>Or a more recent example, Afghanistan: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-asia-59230564" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.bbc.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;world-asia-59230564</a>
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phkahlerabout 3 years ago
&gt;&gt; But Rich believes that these colleges do fear enrollment drops if they remove the fake accounts.<p>And then more quotes back that up.<p>Just make people register on site. Still via computer but in person. Problem solved. This is community college where everyone is local.
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PragmaticPulpabout 3 years ago
Whenever the topics of benefits fraud or means testing come up, there’s always a lot of commentary from people who say it’s more important to deliver aid freely and quickly than to ensure that it’s going to the right people.<p>Yet this is a perfect example of why that doesn’t work in practice. Fraudsters are drawn to systems without sufficient controls and they will exploit them mercilessly as long as they think they can get away with it.<p>Worse, aid is infinite and resources are limited. These fake students are blocking actual students from registering for classes and draining away the time of educators and administrators who should be busy running the school, not trying to separate out real and fake students.<p>Means testing is a dumb idea if we’re administering, for example, a $100 drug test before giving someone $100 in food stamps. However, when we’re handing out $5,000 or more then investing $100-$200 into means testing or manual verification should have been an obvious requirement.<p>EDIT: People seem to be misinterpreting this article. The aid in question came from the COVID-19 related HEERF funds and CARES act and <i>was distributed directly to applicants</i>. It did not count towards nor subtract from normal financial aid (FAFSA, etc.) meant to pay for the education. It was supposed to be money meant to help students survive <i>outside of education</i> in a faltering COVID economy. Financial aid for actual education would have gone straight to the school and therefore there&#x27;s no reason for fraudsters to register to consume it.<p>This is money distributed to students (or fraudsters) via direct deposit. It&#x27;s different than the aid you&#x27;re familiar with from past college application experience.
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ryantgtgabout 3 years ago
LA Times has been covering this story, as well (featuring the same instructor sleuth): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;california&#x2F;story&#x2F;2021-12-17&#x2F;fake-student-bots-enrolled-in-community-colleges-one-professor-has-become-a-bot-sleuthing-continues-to-fight-them" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;california&#x2F;story&#x2F;2021-12-17&#x2F;fake-stu...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;california&#x2F;story&#x2F;2022-03-22&#x2F;some-community-colleges-havent-shared-application-fraud-data-months-since-rise-in-bot-enrollment" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.latimes.com&#x2F;california&#x2F;story&#x2F;2022-03-22&#x2F;some-com...</a>
alloaiabout 3 years ago
I personally came across some of these situations, they sell unlimited onedrive storage or google drive storage , which comes from EDU domains.
reboot81about 3 years ago
In Sweden any financial aid to students are revoked if you dont get a grade. If you apply a second time, after failing classes you simply dont get aid until your grades improve. Aid is only paid out a month at a time. Also, you have to apply using digital-ID (BankID) for both classes and aid, theres no way to cheat. This way, fraud is unheard of. Educational aid, if paid out erroneously is collected more aggressively than taxes.
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grumpleabout 3 years ago
This is such an easy problem to solve. There are simple technical tools to prevent bots from enrolling. More advanced detection methods will catch basically all of the rest. And then you can and should be contacting prospective students via phone or otherwise to verify enrollment. And require physical presence and ID (as my university did) before distributing aid.<p>Just an example of truly inept leadership in multiple departments and at the top.
spicyusernameabout 3 years ago
Seems like a perfect storm of harmful incentives, no oversight, and weak political leadership. It&#x27;s a great demonstration of how legislators (and the public) need to remember that policies have to work in the real world with real world constraints and not just on paper.<p>It&#x27;s good that some measures are planned to help prevent the fraud, but it&#x27;s frustrating how slow they are to get implemented.
chernevikabout 3 years ago
Call me when some bureaucrat loses their job, and the overseeing legislators are turned out of office.<p>This happens because our political systems have no incentives to prevent it from happening.
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mistrial9about 3 years ago
Here in California, I believe I have seen administrators cover up enrollment irregularity (direct fraud?), even before covid-19, in the Hayward Adult School -- English as a Second Language (ESL) program, in the late 1990s and early 2000s. The administrators are cool like lawyers, but now reading this, it all fits.
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gumbyabout 3 years ago
Murphy’s law says whoever ends up trying to screen these out will not have read <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2010&#x2F;06&#x2F;17&#x2F;falsehoods-programmers-believe-about-names&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.kalzumeus.com&#x2F;2010&#x2F;06&#x2F;17&#x2F;falsehoods-programmers-...</a> and thus will unwittingly screen out plenty of legitimate students as well.<p>From the cases described in the article: Some people actually do have a given name as their family name and some even have the same name for both (I know a Peter Peter). Also some people only have a single name (consider the famous IBM Fellow Mohan, who types “C Mohan” when some system can’t deal with that case.<p>Straightening this out will be tedious and costly. I feel bad for the actual students who were unable to register.
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perihelionsabout 3 years ago
- <i>&quot;Rich said administrators have focused more on ensuring that real students don’t get accidentally dropped from classes.&quot;</i><p>- <i>&quot;“The school is leaving the fake students in,” she said. “The school is afraid if they admit the fraud, they’re on the hook for allowing the fraud and having to pay it back.”&quot;</i><p>It&#x27;s also possible administrators are the ones putting the fake students in. They&#x27;re the ones in the easiest position to do this fraud.<p>Like in the Yale story from last month:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30849862" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=30849862</a>
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newbambooabout 3 years ago
“The financial aid administrators at Pierce College say it’s not their job”<p>Make them legally accountable.<p>Banks can’t assist fraudsters and then say “not my job.” The administrators should be jailed or lending to colleges with this problem should stop.
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lettergramabout 3 years ago
This is called fraud and administrators should be being investigated for it. They get kickbacks for the government.
orwareabout 3 years ago
It’s interesting to see this thread crop up here, as I’ve only recently left CCC system for a job in tech after being in IT within the system for about 14 years.<p>This particular issue over the last year or so has gotten worse, with more eyeballs on it, once actual money became involved (before it was still an issue but on a smaller scale mostly for the free edu emails we tend to issue, along with other freebies that can help enable, such as free credits for Azure or other services).<p>Even in the previous cases, I was annoyed&#x2F;upset because in my mind the first line of defense the colleges have is preventing these fake users from being able to submit an application successfully in the first place, since the OpenCCCApply application (which I believe is used by all ~115 CCCs) was allowing the submissions in the first place…and since we mostly bring that application data into the individual colleges, not many triggered a “hold” on our end.<p>Yes, CCCTechCenter (which helps manage the team which maintains the OpenCCCApply system) have done a few things over this past year that are mentioned in the article already (but based on the article I can’t tell 100% if it is really indicating the issue is still rampant in the more recent semesters…one of the changes was adding usage of an IP reputation checker in for example, but there are likely ways around that too for these folks who actually don’t seem to actually use bots…maybe they use actual people instead based on what I’ve seen, such as the YouTube video shared in the article).<p>What I found really annoying by it all is that while the problem originated from the systems being provided to the colleges from the state level (OpenCCCApply mainly), the individual colleges are now on the hook to gather a bunch of mostly useless data, and go on silly adventures such as investigating IP address info within our other systems (like Canvas) to help find or report the fraudulent activity.<p>I think I saw FAFSA mentioned a few times but I don’t think there is a ton of fraud coming from the FAFSA application too directly…but in this past year many of the colleges have been putting COVID relief funds they’ve received (to help get students&#x2F;staff back on campus) and using those to pay for fees or provide an extra amount for books, etc. which isn’t something that will continue forever (in fact, I think for this summer this will already have ended, or it will be the last semester where it will be offered).<p>In most cases, once the incentive is taken away, or the bar to get it is made higher, these folks creating the fraudulent accounts will generally move on (or target schools that don’t implement some of the 2nd layer fixes at the college level…unfortunately while the CCCTechCenter tries its best, it doesn’t typically fully acknowledge its role in creating some of these situations, and I almost lol’ed when I saw towards the end of the article I saw they are looking to get more funding to “modernize” it, yet again, considering a lot of effort &#x2F; time &#x2F; money already has gone into creating the current OpenCCCApply system not that long ago from the previous system, which was pretty bad in comparison).<p>Overall though this particular situation is at the same both more complex and simpler than folks may think, once you have some more details (more complex because there is a lot about what’s going on in the CCCs the HN community isn’t aware of, along with super strict regulations that have to be followed within the individual Financial Aid departments at each school, otherwise they win not be able to provide federal aid monies to students if they weren’t doing so, making that avenue for fraud a lot more less likely than the scenario I shared above on how the COVID relief monies have been being used instead to provide an incentive to get students back in the classroom…along with the solution being simpler since we already have a central application process that should be the system that keeps these applications from ever reaching the individual colleges, but it fails in that regard…that along with removing the financial incentive currently present, should reduce the fraud levels considerably…although there are likely a few more complexities even I am unaware of…I would just appreciate it if the search for fraud wouldn’t get pushed onto the individual colleges in these situations where a system wide protection should have prevented the situations in the first place, mainly because it causes a ton on unneeded busy work at the colleges keeping IT System Analysts and other technical folks from focusing on other, probably more important, internal projects).<p>Excuse any typos…I wrote this small novel on my phone.
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lifeplusplusabout 3 years ago
If I remember filling out FAFSA it required SSN didn&#x27;t it?
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ineedasernameabout 3 years ago
Federal aid requires attendance verification for each course a student takes. In my state, state-level aid adopted the same requirement. Why the heck does the California system do this too?<p>Not to mention that even getting the aid in the first place requires filling out a FAFSA form-- difficult to provide fake tax returns-- and about 10% are randomly selected for verification as well.
bushbabaabout 3 years ago
Don’t you need a SSN or Tax I’d to get the financial aid.<p>At least I remember needing that info to register for university in another state.
yawaraminabout 3 years ago
&gt; He shows the bot automatically filling out a Contra Costa College application with fake personal information, and within seven minutes, he has enrolled at Contra Costa College as Ivan N. Atkinson for the fall 2020 term.<p>A honeypot or a captcha would probably reduce the scale of the fraudulent sign-ups quite a lot.
gcanyonabout 3 years ago
How is this even remotely difficult to reduce? I say reduce instead of illuminate because there will always be some form of fraud. But at least make a real live person show up for class in order to get the money ¯\_(ツ)_&#x2F;¯
_fat_santaabout 3 years ago
Aren&#x27;t there extra steps required for actually getting the aid dollars where they confirm you are a real person? All this seems to do is get you a .EDU email address (which is useful on its own for getting discounts and such)
fareeshabout 3 years ago
There are also services that sell .edu domains to avail discounts on various web products.
AvocadoPanicabout 3 years ago
California (insert project &#x2F; program) leads to massive fraud isn&#x27;t a new headline.<p>Where&#x27;s the vendor Xap in this?<p>Were they not obligated to deliver a application system resistant to obvious forms of fraud and abuse? I know they&#x27;re primarily an Education software vendor but this seems especially poor.
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tamaharborabout 3 years ago
But absolutely no cheating in the 2020 elections. Go figure.
gjsman-1000about 3 years ago
Maybe a quick temporary fix would be to add a reCAPTCHA, and a better fix would be to mandate appearing on campus and verifying your identity before any accounts or financial aid is made available?
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donthellbanmeabout 3 years ago
Depends on the school, but some will prosecute.<p>My local community college woke up their sleepy 15 unit cop squad, and worked with financial aid, in order to prosecute a few people doing it. (A sleepy community college with 15 cops&#x2F;detectives. There&#x27;s a state law requiring cops per student ratio regardless of crime which is basically zero. They don&#x27;t do anything besides ticket cars.)<p>This is what we pay our police to investigate.<p>The couple in Marin County signed up for classes, and got federal aid. They told their friends and it was a popular way to make a few grand, but their public outing stopped the scam. They always showed up to the first class though.<p>Poor people will do sketch chit in order to get ahead. Rich people cheat better, in greater numbers, but don&#x27;t get caught. (According to professor Cartman. &quot;You know how white people get ahead? They cheat, but they call it, I miss interpreted the ruuules. I&#x27;m looking at you Covid business fraudsters, or moral fraudsters.)
CryptoPunkabout 3 years ago
And the Democratic Party claims voters should not be required to show photo ID to vote.
rob_cabout 3 years ago
&quot;screenshots&quot; of printouts... sounds like a typical academic institutional farce. Sounds like it impacted other states too, but I&#x27;m willing to bet certain states reduced the barrier to exploitation to zero and they wonder why it was an attractive target?<p>reaping and sowing springs to mind