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No Damned Computer Is Going to Tell Me What to Do – Story of Naval Data System

174 pointsby bullaabout 3 years ago

16 comments

joelbermanabout 3 years ago
I was one of the first sailors to go through DS A school at Mare Island. Previously the DS went through ET school first. We learned the purpose of every gate in the UDT a 15-bit computer with 512 words of memory before stepping up to the 642A and 642B computers. This was in 1967 when it was still possible to know how every bit of hardware and software worked.
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aeortakertjabout 3 years ago
Oh yeah. My dad was an Air Force officer for twenty years. He spent most of that time loudly, proudly refusing to learn how to use computers. Throughout the 70s he got shipped around to ever-smaller facilities with the oldest-available technology. He finally got fired in the 80s when there was nowhere left to send him to. He still tells the story frequently and doesn&#x27;t understand why no one recognizes what a genius he is.<p>If you really want to see some shit, look up the story of the Permissive Action Link and how the USAF intentionally bypassed the system and lied to Congress about it for decades.
gumbyabout 3 years ago
I am surprised there was opposition given the by then decades of deployment of targeting computers for the canon.<p>OTOH there was a lot of resistance to radio connection, as many captains felt it diminished their autonomy.<p>What’s fascinating about the latter that appears right now is that the US military did retain autonomy in the ranks while deploying radio communication. By contrast the USSR used it to reinforce top-down decision making. We can see the contrast in Ukraine today.
klochabout 3 years ago
Reminds me of this scene from War Games <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;iRsycWRQrc8?t=66" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;iRsycWRQrc8?t=66</a>
caycepabout 3 years ago
I&#x27;m kind of wondering - at the beginning of the war, the IJN seemed to be on the upper hand with technical innovations, at least at the tactical level, and training. Why did it not keep pace with the tech development vs. the allies? Surely there were no shortage of talented individual intellectuals (Jiro Horikoshi, etc). Is this primarily a case study in management styles? i.e. the IJN had too many of those &quot;No Damned Computer is going to tell me what to do&quot; officers that shot down ideas like fighter director officers or NTDS systems?
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wazooxabout 3 years ago
I&#x27;ve read the whole book (probably from HN recommendation) and it&#x27;s awesome what they achieved back in the 50s. Networking huge computers at sea for C&amp;C and targeting back in the 50s and 60s. The writing may not be great, but the whole thing is incredibly interesting!
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dangabout 3 years ago
Related - one past thread with one comment:<p><i>No Damned Computer Is Going to Tell Me What to Do</i> - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23580701" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=23580701</a> - June 2020 (1 comment)
ncmncmabout 3 years ago
This series is outstanding!<p>Be warned, it is five long chapters, and will take hours to read. But it is well worth the time. I learned more computer history from this one book than everything I had picked up in decades before.
birdman3131about 3 years ago
This feels like a real interesting article that was chopped up and mixed. They will mention something interesting for a paragraph or two and then go on to something completely different. Its difficult to read for me.
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rocquaabout 3 years ago
This is an amazing read, but damn is it long.<p>I was happy to reach the end of the page, only to see &quot;for chapter 2 click here&quot;. Guess I am going home late today.
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openasocketabout 3 years ago
I&#x27;d love to see a deep dive like this into how the modern Aegis system works from a programming and architectural standpoint
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sandworm101about 3 years ago
The Sum of All Fears. The scene where Russian BACKFIREs attack a US Carrier with AS-4 missiles. <i>That</i> is why you have to let the computers make many decisions. Humans are just too slow.
hbarkaabout 3 years ago
You know you need a break from the interwebs when your brain sees Naval and thinks it’s about Ravikant. And I’ve lived on naval bases.
webmobdevabout 3 years ago
I guess it&#x27;s a cultural thing - as a nation of immigrants with low population, once scientific knowledge grew, slavery started to become unpopular and communist &#x2F; socialist ideas started becoming popular with the labour class, Americans increasingly turned to technology to try and replace them or make their work redundant. Thus, the powers to be in the US have an affinity to trusting technology.<p>Most of Europe and Asia especially does not share this enthusiasm and have policies that dictate that humans should be able to override the &quot;machine&quot; at any point.
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nonrandomstringabout 3 years ago
You know, if Luke Skywalker hadn&#x27;t listened to Obi Wan and switched off his targeting computer that Death-star would still be out there menacing peaceful planets.<p>Good job the Rebels didn&#x27;t disable manual over-ride.
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imwillofficialabout 3 years ago
If they didn’t use the system “they would probably be instantly removed from their commands and maybe court martialed” Dumbest shit I’ve read all day. That’s not how the Navy works.<p>A captain is given wide latitude in how to run His ship.
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