TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Mental illness, mass shootings, and the politics of American firearms (2015)

280 pointsby LoveGracePeacealmost 3 years ago

55 comments

librishalmost 3 years ago
It&#x27;s time we start legislating based on empirical evidence instead of lofty ideals. Yes, if everyone was responsible perhaps it would be OK for all of us to own firearms. But so many people are utterly irresponsible, and guns make that irresponsibility lethal.<p>People should safely store their fire-arms, but they don&#x27;t and guns get stolen and sold illegally, or used by their teenage child.<p>People shouldn&#x27;t point a gun at someone unless their life is in danger and they&#x27;re prepared to take a life, but they do and people get shot by accident, or road rage turns deadly.<p>Not to mention the suicides. If you own a gun ideation can turn into action in less than 30 seconds and it can seem like a painless, easy way to go.<p>And when everyone is armed everyone wants to be armed. Cops pull their guns quickly out of fear of armed criminals. Regular people want to own a gun because they feel like everyone else does, and they&#x27;re now less safe unless they also get one.<p>Growing up outside the US I never saw any guns. I don&#x27;t know of anyone who had a gun. I don&#x27;t know of anyone who knew anyone who had a gun. I remember seeing military members in parades carrying guns because it was one of the few times I&#x27;d actually seen one. Cops didn&#x27;t walk around armed. There are other ways to kill people but guns are an especially effective, intuitive, and easy way to do so.
评论 #31517434 未加载
评论 #31513529 未加载
评论 #31517342 未加载
评论 #31514719 未加载
评论 #31517647 未加载
评论 #31526019 未加载
评论 #31574893 未加载
评论 #31533506 未加载
评论 #31558580 未加载
评论 #31515137 未加载
评论 #31517228 未加载
评论 #31516603 未加载
评论 #31515056 未加载
评论 #31515362 未加载
评论 #31517417 未加载
jonp888almost 3 years ago
As a foreigner, I do not see it as productive to seek any explanation or expect any reaction when yet another news story like this comes along.<p>It&#x27;s clear that this is the way Americans wish to live, and it is their perogative to do so.
评论 #31514262 未加载
评论 #31512652 未加载
评论 #31511773 未加载
评论 #31515042 未加载
评论 #31521113 未加载
评论 #31513703 未加载
BobbyJoalmost 3 years ago
I think a good first step everyone can agree on to stop gun violence is: stop it&#x27;s gamification.<p>Almost every mass shooting in the last decade was someone looking for media attention and high score. And yet, every shooting is followed by detailed biography and a tally of bodies.<p>Something as simple as a one month moratorium on information for anyone outside the community would probably work wonders, as the public eye will have moved on by then.
评论 #31517799 未加载
评论 #31521034 未加载
评论 #31517699 未加载
评论 #31517694 未加载
评论 #31517827 未加载
评论 #31518027 未加载
评论 #31517953 未加载
评论 #31517850 未加载
twaytalmost 3 years ago
How about having a mandatory committee that seriously investigates {physical, social, cyber, etc.}-bullying more instead of just ignoring it? We can both work on stringent gun laws and take the mental health of children&#x2F;teenagers more seriously. There is a clear pattern of which demographic of people consistently commit such crimes. Using this subset of gun owners to dictate gun ownership policies is going to be a hotly contested political issue and it is going to take a while to make progress on that. I personally would hope for a future where gun ownership is very very strictly controlled. However, to claim that gun ownership is the root cause of such incidents occurring doesn&#x27;t sit right with me. Sure it amplifies the amount of damage that can be done but I don&#x27;t think that most of these individuals randomly woke up and decided to cause mayhem.
评论 #31517437 未加载
评论 #31521451 未加载
评论 #31517261 未加载
评论 #31516242 未加载
评论 #31515261 未加载
Thorentisalmost 3 years ago
I honestly think precedent and copy-cat syndrome are hugely to blame. &quot;Shooting up a school&quot; has just become synonymous with going on a shooting rampage. How do we go back from this? Even if we ban guns, how do we stop the determined from getting their hands on a gun so that they can shot up a school? It think it&#x27;s incredibly tragic that we have gotten to the point where killing multiple primsry school aged children is the go to outlet for mentally ill people who want to go on a killing spree in the United States.
评论 #31513791 未加载
评论 #31517890 未加载
评论 #31514563 未加载
评论 #31517421 未加载
评论 #31519931 未加载
评论 #31517810 未加载
UnpossibleJimalmost 3 years ago
OK, I&#x27;m hoping for a nuanced and civil discussion, but here goes... America (where I live and was raised) does not like to parse numbers, when it comes to these things. Both &quot;mass shootings&quot; and &quot;mental illness&quot; are dividable into smaller chunks than their current definitions and need to be handled in different ways than a &quot;winner take all&quot; approach.<p>&quot;Mental Illness&quot; is a broad spectrum and cannot be lumped into a giant bin, and should in no way be discussed a such. Of course there are mentally ill people who should not be near guns. I don&#x27;t think that&#x27;s a question... well, to most. Anyone who says different is using them as a lever to get things pushed through or has no experience. This, however is not all mentally ill people. The definition is so vague as to be almost meaningless, at times. Oh, do you have a sexual deviancy like being choked?... You might, technically, have a mental illness, but since it isn&#x27;t <i>very</i> detrimental to your well being, so long as you set boundaries, you&#x27;re probably OK. Probably.<p>&quot;Mass shootings&quot; are defined by any shooting that has 4 or more victims. This does get divided, once you dig down a little further in the database, but it&#x27;s all lumped under the &quot;Mass shooting&quot; header. This is driveby&#x27;s (sp?), party shootings, drug buys, etc... not that that is better, or should be taken with a cavalier attitude. Far from it. But, if you are looking at it from a preventative stand point, it&#x27;s a completely different equation. These aren&#x27;t going to be legally obtained, randomized violence, caused by mental illness. These are generally crimes of poverty, means and lack of opportunity. Gun laws and access to mental health facilities aren&#x27;t going to stop these, but job programs, education, birth control, manufacturing facilities, infrastructure and treatment services might.
评论 #31517835 未加载
评论 #31515496 未加载
condercetalmost 3 years ago
It is not fair to place the blame for this epidemic of violence squarely on those suffering from mental health issues.<p>Mental health issues are distributed globally, but the gun violence problem is not.<p>People who suffer from mental health issues are tremendously more likely to be victims of violence, rather than the perpetrators. These individuals already suffer from tremendous discrimination and hardships in their lives.<p>Those who would place the blame in this direction while deflecting from the ease of access to firearms are acting disingenuously.<p>We continue to do nothing, and I wish I could say that nothing continues to happen - but Americans continue to die from this senseless violence with shocking regularity.
评论 #31513907 未加载
评论 #31511798 未加载
评论 #31518527 未加载
andyjohnson0almost 3 years ago
As a non-American I found Heather Cox-Richardson&#x27;s recent substack newsletter post [1] to be useful in understanding how the US has got to this point. She&#x27;s a history professor at Boston College and she does a good job of describing how gun ownership and control came to be (intentionally) politicised, and how the NRA&#x27;s role has changed over time.<p>Honestly, I don&#x27;t see how the US is ever going to dig itself out of this hole. The reward system that leads to the perpetuating the culture war that lies behind this problem (among many others) just seems too strong. It&#x27;s deeply structural and embedded in US culture, and there doesn&#x27;t seem to be a way to change it. I wish there was.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;heathercoxrichardson.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;may-24-2022" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;heathercoxrichardson.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;may-24-2022</a>
评论 #31516504 未加载
评论 #31517366 未加载
elforce002almost 3 years ago
As a foreigner I find this subject very complex since the right to bear arms in on the US constitution.<p>To change or &quot;rewrite&quot; the constitution trying to deal with this subject could dissolve the US.<p>Banning guns altogether (rather improbable) will only leave law abiding citizens at the mercy of criminals.<p>More protection in schools could be a starting point to address these awful events.<p>I&#x27;m still in favor of law abiding citizens having a way to defend themselves. My Dad and Mom were almost killed by a burglar with an illegal gun while they were at home!. A burglar got inside my house while my pregnant wife and me were sleeping. If she were to go to the bathroom or anything else, I couldn&#x27;t possibly imagine what would happen.<p>For context, it&#x27;s practically impossible to buy a gun in my country. I wouldn&#x27;t recommend anyone to vote for laws restricting any law abiding citizen to defend themselves and their loved ones.
评论 #31514204 未加载
评论 #31514542 未加载
评论 #31514772 未加载
评论 #31514755 未加载
评论 #31516278 未加载
评论 #31513615 未加载
krnlpncalmost 3 years ago
What if guns were treated similarly to cars? Mandatory training, License w&#x2F; renewals, registration w&#x2F; renewals, insurance mandatory, yearly inspection mandatory, etc.<p>Personally I feel people should be able to defend themselves while at the same time deterred from stockpiling and accessing mass casualty capable arms.
评论 #31514546 未加载
评论 #31513746 未加载
评论 #31518001 未加载
评论 #31514270 未加载
评论 #31513498 未加载
评论 #31516956 未加载
评论 #31514583 未加载
评论 #31511847 未加载
评论 #31514476 未加载
axilmaralmost 3 years ago
One side of the issue is gun availability.<p>The other side is that the American culture has a toxic side which can drive lonely young men to perform despicable acts.<p>Imagine being a lonely young boy, growing up getting bullied all the time, being told you amount to nothing, and it&#x27;s your fault, and at the same time, while everyone around you is deep into corruption and sin, they preach to you that you should be sinless and pure!<p>I am not American, but I can sense the contradiction from miles away. And if it goes on for too long, especially when one is young, it can turn a person into a mass murderer.<p>Sadly, mental health issues stemming from society&#x27;s ills is not really discussed anywhere and in depth. The focus is only on gun laws, gun ownership and gun availability. I am not saying that it is not an important aspect of the problem, but it cannot really be solved by just stricter gun control...even if guns were not really available, the people with mental health issues would use bombs or use other means to kill. But then the focus would be on terrorism, and the mental health problem will still not be discussed, because it&#x27;s such a difficult topic...
评论 #31518137 未加载
评论 #31518519 未加载
jasonhanselalmost 3 years ago
For context: Texas Gov. Greg Abbott recently attributed <i>all</i> gun crime to mental illness, saying at a press conference that &quot;anybody who shoots somebody else has a mental health problem, period.&quot;
评论 #31511487 未加载
评论 #31511629 未加载
评论 #31513360 未加载
belochalmost 3 years ago
Canada is the U.S.&#x27;s neighbour and is probably closer, culturally, than any other nation. Gun ownership is also high in Canada. In terms of guns per capita, the U.S. is #1 by a long shot, but Canada is #7 [1]. In Canada, guns owned per capita is one third of what it is in the U.S..<p>Canada also has mass shootings. The annual deaths from mass shootings per capita in Canada is 0.032, which is about one third that of the U.S. (0.089) [2].<p>As a Canadian, it&#x27;s actually shocking to see that Canada&#x27;s rate of mass shootings correspond well to the U.S.&#x27;s if you simply control for population and the number of guns owned by that population. I&#x27;d have expected us to be doing better. Where gun ownership laws vary wildly in different U.S. states, Canada&#x27;s laws are under federal control and are, hence, consistent. Where some U.S. states have virtually no requirements of testing or training to own guns, Canada requires gun owners to have mental health checks and complete firearm safety training courses. Gun owners undergo regular background checks and will have their guns confiscated in short order if they ever commit a criminal offence. Where many U.S. states permit concealed carry of handguns, handguns are virtually illegal to carry in Canada. Transporting them from your home to the range is legal, but they must be unloaded, locked, and permits are required for the transport.<p>With all of these additional precautions, Canada really <i>should</i> be doing better. The harsh reality may be that the number of guns per capita floating around really is an important factor.<p>[1]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...</a> [2]<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;mass-shootings-by-country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;mass-shoo...</a>
评论 #31514422 未加载
评论 #31514337 未加载
评论 #31514239 未加载
评论 #31515370 未加载
评论 #31516400 未加载
评论 #31514094 未加载
评论 #31516584 未加载
评论 #31514668 未加载
评论 #31514089 未加载
评论 #31517967 未加载
评论 #31515361 未加载
评论 #31515111 未加载
评论 #31515401 未加载
评论 #31514821 未加载
评论 #31516582 未加载
评论 #31513992 未加载
评论 #31521993 未加载
评论 #31515075 未加载
评论 #31513599 未加载
doctoroctogonalmost 3 years ago
Question for the pro-gun folks: where is the limit on what a civilian needs to defend themselves? Assuming you agree civilians shouldn’t have nukes. How about fighter jets. What about tanks. What about bazookas. How do you make that call. If, for example, greater than 5 round magazines isn’t the limit, where is the limit and why?
评论 #31517603 未加载
评论 #31516903 未加载
评论 #31518224 未加载
评论 #31519718 未加载
评论 #31517950 未加载
mikewarotalmost 3 years ago
1. My ratio in this manner is awful... I need to do better How often do you:<p>a) discuss issues with someone from the other side of the political aisle in a calm and rational manner?<p>b) give in to the emotional urge to scream at <i>those people</i>?<p>2. Money is at the root of this, in so many ways<p>a) Lobbyists have captured the Federal Government, degrading our faith in Government, as they have stopped representing us, and allowed increasingly dangerous failures of society to occur. This degrades trust in society.<p>b) Advertising driven mass media, and social media, both maximize &quot;engagement&quot;, which for the most part happens to be gut level emotional response.<p>c) The political parties use wedge issues and false choice to divide up the voters, and suppress actual reform, especially rational voices calling for reasonable compromises. They do this to remain in power, and keep getting that sweet sweet stream of money from their donors.<p>3) I think we have to start on a personal level to fix this.<p>None of the larger system issues can be fixed before we fix the base issue, broken trust. We need to call each other out when we notice our friends talking about &quot;those people&quot;. We need to try to agree on reasonable compromises, instead of fear of slippery slopes forcing us to say insane things to defend our &quot;position&quot;
评论 #31513752 未加载
评论 #31511925 未加载
freediveralmost 3 years ago
I sincerely hope this does not descend into a flamewar.<p>We can&#x27;t have discussion about this in an intellectually stimulating way in congress, we can&#x27;t have this discussion in the media, we obviously can&#x27;t have this discussion on social media so HN is the last bastion of hope.<p>It is a multi-faceted problem with a lot of complexity. The fact stands that USA has a school shooting problem [1] unlike any other country in the world. My main question is how did we get here? There must be an inflection point in the past - any historians out there who can tell us when did this began to be a thing and what was the root cause?<p>Also any argument like &quot;mental illness&quot; or &quot;ease of access to firearms&quot; needs to explain why the same does not apply to the rest of the world. There are mentally ill people everywhere and many countries have easily accessible weapons, yet no school shootings at this scale.<p>Can we investigate all the contributing factors? What can we do as individuals and as a society to move forward on this issue?<p>(parent of three elementary school kids here)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;school-shootings-by-country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;school-sh...</a><p>edit:<p>I see many comments already default to &quot;guns are the problem&quot;. I was hoping for a more nuanced discussion.<p>Let&#x27;s look at data. While US has most guns per capita, other countries are close, in the same order of magnitude [2].<p>For example Serbia has 40 civilian firearms per 100 people (!) and zero school shootings in its entire history. United States had 288 just this year. Why is that? Where does the urge to kill innocent children come from?<p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Estimated_number_of_civilian_guns_per_capita_by_country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Estimated_number_of_civilian_g...</a>
评论 #31511728 未加载
评论 #31513448 未加载
评论 #31513778 未加载
评论 #31512444 未加载
评论 #31512163 未加载
评论 #31513460 未加载
评论 #31513817 未加载
评论 #31511593 未加载
评论 #31513877 未加载
评论 #31513437 未加载
评论 #31513443 未加载
评论 #31514041 未加载
评论 #31513668 未加载
评论 #31511686 未加载
评论 #31513604 未加载
评论 #31513985 未加载
评论 #31514628 未加载
评论 #31511642 未加载
评论 #31514346 未加载
评论 #31514157 未加载
评论 #31513968 未加载
评论 #31511617 未加载
评论 #31513551 未加载
评论 #31511630 未加载
评论 #31513640 未加载
评论 #31514086 未加载
评论 #31511520 未加载
评论 #31511493 未加载
评论 #31514210 未加载
评论 #31513993 未加载
评论 #31512202 未加载
评论 #31514211 未加载
评论 #31511648 未加载
评论 #31513555 未加载
chmod600almost 3 years ago
An otherwise informative article, but using the term &quot;military-grade&quot; seems out of place.<p>The term has little meaning. You could call socks &quot;military-grade&quot; as well, and the only meaning that it really conveys is that it was cheap and barely functional enough to win a contract.<p>And AR15s are cheap. A lot of plastic and aluminum. You could say that&#x27;s a problem, if you want. But that line of argument doesn&#x27;t seem to lead anywhere.<p>In any case, &quot;military-grade&quot; seems like a talking point and nothing more. If anything, it gives the rifle more protection under the second amendment, which specifically references the militia.
评论 #31514589 未加载
评论 #31514374 未加载
评论 #31518600 未加载
whatshisfacealmost 3 years ago
Although this article is full of false dichotomies (&quot;far from posing threats to others, people diagnosed with schizophrenia have victimization rates 65% to 130% higher than those of the general public.&quot;), the message that we should not allow the damage done by mass shooters to extend to making us treat mentally ill people even more poorly than we already do is an important one and worth sharing.<p>The way fear makes us do things that increase the damage done to society by a violent attack is an old phenomenon that shows up again and again in our history. We should be careful to avoid it.
second--shiftalmost 3 years ago
My hot take on the issue: Don&#x27;t regulate the guns per-se; regulate the bullets. An adult (only adults should be shopping for ammunition?) must take end-to-end responsibility and ownership of each bullet the purchase, and subsequently fire. You own the bullet from the time you take it home to the store to the time it comes to rest after firing out of a gun.<p>The guns, other than as a mechanism for firing bullets, are not particularly harmful; certainly not more harmful than a baseball bat or a car. It&#x27;s really the bullets coming out of the gun(s) we as a society are worried about.<p>If your bullet (out of your gun, or any other even) harms property, you as the bullet&#x2F;gun owner have financial responsibility of that damage. Your bullet harms a person, intentionally or not, you are responsible. Doesn&#x27;t matter if your kid took it to school, or someone stole your gun &amp; bullets; you are responsible. Many these firearm &quot;accidents&quot; and negligent discharges, kids getting into the guns, etc would go away if the customer at the gun store was made very aware of exactly what liability they were taking on, complete with stories and anecdotes about how irresponsible gun owners have been (financially, or otherwise) ruined by their carelessness.<p>If we held gun owners to the responsibility they are supposedly taking on simplicity when choosing to own a firearm, this conversation would be much easier. Why are we not crucifying the parent(s) of this most recent shooter, who were the owner(s) of the gun and bullets used in the school in Texas?
评论 #31519107 未加载
评论 #31520546 未加载
评论 #31519081 未加载
bastardoperatoralmost 3 years ago
More guns equate to more deaths... it&#x27;s pretty simple to understand. As a veteran not that it matters, most people I&#x27;ve interacted with in terms of guns see them as toys and they really like their toys. If you were to make people do a week of range training like the military, well, I don&#x27;t think most people would be gun owners.
评论 #31521088 未加载
dt3ftalmost 3 years ago
In other words: ‘No Way To Prevent This,’ Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens
slothtropalmost 3 years ago
Leaving aside the gun logistics, there is a cultural baggage at work that seems to exacerbate cases of anti-social loner teenagers intent on punishing their world. Perhaps of grit, hostility to communal aid or social services, on the conceit that it exudes strength. Access to mental health services is nice but in and of itself may not even capture all the societal symptoms where it&#x27;s needed. Ground-up grass-roots effort to change culture itself may be required. There is a generational cycle of negative experience and neglect among some youth. Existing structures are not enough. That may not be a satisfying, clear-cut avenue to explore but there is clearly room for improvement and it could garner bipartisan effort.<p>The alternative is to restrict access to concealable firearms, and going anywhere near this is politically unviable. Gun policy is used as a political football (so it doesn&#x27;t even matter if more than 50% of Republican voters support better regulation), it leads us back here. That being said, as far as school shootings by teenagers are concerned, restriction of concealed arms probably works: it matters not that criminals don&#x27;t acquire their guns legally, teenage shooters aren&#x27;t career criminals, they just use their dad&#x27;s gun, or in this case, buy it legally. And unless gun control translates to &quot;asshole dad doesn&#x27;t have a handgun&quot;, it won&#x27;t mean anything. Gun advocates are leery that concessions would lead the conversation next to bans, probably correctly.<p>If you want change as soon as possible, take the first path. Otherwise, change the fabric of politics in America. Get rid of the PACs and SuperPACs.
politicianalmost 3 years ago
When I was in high school, two classmates committed suicide through overdose and one shot themselves.<p>When are we going to address the elephant in the room: that the public school system systematically creates hopelessness in children by stripping them of their agency and reducing them into cattle to be managed by an authoritarian hierarchy in overcrowded conditions.<p>There are so many more people that died or have been psychologically maimed by their public school experience than have shot up schools.
mafroalmost 3 years ago
People are always saying things like &quot;the second amendment protects my right to bear arms&quot;.<p>So can we have another &quot;amendment&quot; that removes this right?
评论 #31514914 未加载
评论 #31515033 未加载
评论 #31530958 未加载
评论 #31514912 未加载
settransalmost 3 years ago
Let&#x27;s see what happens when you apply critical analysis and derive conclusions from data instead of rhetoric:<p>Real Talk about School Shootings – where show how school shooting numbers are a terrible thing around which to craft policy. &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hwfo.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;real-talk-about-school-shootings" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hwfo.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;real-talk-about-school-shootings</a>&gt;<p>The Gun Solution - where we fix the entire gun problem. &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hwfo.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-gun-solution" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hwfo.substack.com&#x2F;p&#x2F;the-gun-solution</a>&gt;
评论 #31512065 未加载
评论 #31514160 未加载
评论 #31513620 未加载
评论 #31512021 未加载
devmunchiesalmost 3 years ago
no mention of fatherhood or role models.
评论 #31511632 未加载
greatwhitenorthalmost 3 years ago
India has 4 times the population of US and I&#x27;ve never heard or read about a school shooting or a mass shooting. There is way worse poverty, mental illness, lawlessness, corruption at every level in India. The only difference is easy access to guns. Not sure why it&#x27;s so difficult for gun worshippers in US to understand this.
评论 #31512417 未加载
评论 #31513719 未加载
评论 #31530890 未加载
评论 #31513464 未加载
评论 #31513660 未加载
ausbahalmost 3 years ago
the problem is easy access to guns. sure you can dance around the issue with mental health and gun ownership, but simply the high volume of guns means getting one is pretty damn easy for most people even without a license
评论 #31515682 未加载
tjr225almost 3 years ago
This has literally nothing to do with hackers, computers, or engineering.
jonathanfosteralmost 3 years ago
For those interested in learning more about this topic, I recommend checking out the Violence Project by Jillian Peterson and James Densley [1]. This book opened my eyes to how complicated and multivariate this problem really is. It&#x27;s much more complicated than simply guns and mental illness.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;56969516-the-violence-project" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.goodreads.com&#x2F;book&#x2F;show&#x2F;56969516-the-violence-pr...</a>
评论 #31514074 未加载
pombrandalmost 3 years ago
Not a problem unique to America.<p>Average (Mean) Annual Death Rate per Million People from Mass Public Shootings (U.S., Canada, and Europe, 2009-2015):<p>Norway — 1.888<p>Serbia — 0.381<p>France — 0.347<p>Macedonia — 0.337<p>Albania — 0.206<p>Slovakia — 0.185<p>Switzerland — 0.142<p>Finland — 0.132<p>Belgium — 0.128<p>Czech Republic — 0.123<p>United States — 0.089<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;mass-shootings-by-country" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;worldpopulationreview.com&#x2F;country-rankings&#x2F;mass-shoo...</a>
评论 #31528260 未加载
noirchenalmost 3 years ago
From the viewpoint of people outside the US, Americans probably believe that gun violence is just a mild condition, and decide to live with it. Just like the covid, sure it kills some people, like 10 in 100000, but for the rest 99990, at least half of them do not think something should be done.
evo_9almost 3 years ago
Repeal this law the politicians all know how to fix this: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_in_Arms_Act" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Protection_of_Lawful_Commerce_...</a>
NovemberWhiskeyalmost 3 years ago
Step 1: repeal the Second Amendment.<p>There&#x27;s never going to be useful progress here until America unsticks from the idea that the right to arm yourself belongs in the same category as the right to free speech or due process.
评论 #31517983 未加载
评论 #31518102 未加载
评论 #31517958 未加载
评论 #31518812 未加载
评论 #31518063 未加载
评论 #31517833 未加载
评论 #31520869 未加载
评论 #31517807 未加载
bjt2n3904almost 3 years ago
Sigh.<p>What is a &quot;mass shooting&quot;, and how do we fix it?<p>Four people getting shot? That seems to be an arbitrarily picked number. If two gangs are in a fight, and four people are shot, does that count? Because most people wouldn&#x27;t consider that a &quot;mass shooting&quot;.<p>Shooting spree? Spree killings? Those terms have concrete meaning, and can&#x27;t be pushed around by disingenuous people who want to inflate statistics.<p>Until we can define the problem, we have no hope for a solution.
JofArnoldalmost 3 years ago
What are guns bringing to the table that makes them so precious? At the very least they don&#x27;t seem to be capable of feeding people nor preventing attempted insurrections nor preventing innocent people being killed by the authorities. In the situations they are used for self-preservation they are only done so because the adversary has&#x2F;may themselves have a gun. It defies logic; unless I&#x27;m missing something crucial is it purely a cultural thing?
评论 #31517323 未加载
评论 #31517537 未加载
iamgopalalmost 3 years ago
Guns should be removed in its totality. After that if anybody wants they should allow to hold data based intellectual discussion about meaning of the constitution etc. If while we discuss all constitutional rights that were designed almost half millennia ago, people are getting killed, than drastic measures even if temporarily, are necessary.
评论 #31514315 未加载
renewiltordalmost 3 years ago
Interesting. So you can&#x27;t reasonably turn mental health diagnosticians into detectives. Fair enough.<p>I buy it. The range of normal childhood behavior is quite wide and often only seems damning post-hoc.<p>When I was young, I made a CS map of my school (not very accurate) with one bomb site in the headmaster&#x27;s office. Clearly mentally ill. Or maybe just having some fun.
azlevalmost 3 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ojp.gov&#x2F;ncjrs&#x2F;virtual-library&#x2F;abstracts&#x2F;access-denied-how-gun-lobby-depriving-police-policy-makers-and" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ojp.gov&#x2F;ncjrs&#x2F;virtual-library&#x2F;abstracts&#x2F;access-d...</a><p>We do lack trustful information.
NoImmatureAdHomalmost 3 years ago
Gun violence in the U.S. is a hobby interest of mine as a researcher. Skimming the discussion here, there are several things it would be good to keep in mind:<p>0) Gun murders in the U.S. are a very low percentage of deaths (0.39%) and preventable deaths (~1.1%, there&#x27;s some disagreement about what&#x27;s &quot;preventable&quot;). That&#x27;s 0.0036% of the population per year gun-murdered. That this statistic is 3x some other country&#x27;s is irrelevant because 3x a small number is still a small number. If your goal is to prevent untimely deaths, focus on boring things like falls, car accidents, and diabetes.<p>1) &quot;Mass&quot; shootings are a tiny fraction of all shootings. In the U.S., by firearm murders, it&#x27;s about 3.5%. And that&#x27;s using an extremely permissive definition of &quot;mass shooting&quot;. Usually 3+ or 4+ people <i>shot</i>, not <i>dead</i>. When most people think about a mass shooting, a gangland shootout doesn&#x27;t come to mind. The people coming up with these numbers do this on purpose (&quot;advocacy numbers&quot;), and you should be on guard. The distribution over # shot or # dead is telling.<p>2) Your kids are really safe, and worrying about a child getting shot, training for it, etc. does much more harm than good. We&#x27;ve managed to get child mortality from all causes to be very, very low. Worry about whether your kid is happy, has friends, is fat, has good mentors. This is pretty much <i>exactly</i> like &quot;stranger danger&quot; from the 1980s in the U.S. in a statistical sense, and I would say that contributed to the current regrettable situation where kids aren&#x27;t allowed to roam free at all.<p>3) Stuff like the recent mass shootings in Buffalo and Texas makes it in to your minds because it&#x27;s <i>profitable</i> for news media. Not because it&#x27;s something you should actually think about or worry about, not because it&#x27;s a real threat to you or anyone you know, but because it <i>sells advertisements</i>. Real risks to you as an adult reading this in the U.S.A. are traffic accidents, falls, and being too fat.<p>4) Ppl be like &quot;We banned guns in Scotland and we haven&#x27;t had a mass shooting since!&quot;. Great, but it&#x27;s like saying I can&#x27;t drown if I don&#x27;t get in to the pool. Mostly true, but missing the point. The real number we&#x27;re concerned with here is premature deaths, or perhaps an overall murder rate. Banning guns might result in a lower murder rate, but there&#x27;s going to be some substitution (e.g. knives for guns, Glasgow being the &quot;stab capital of Europe&quot;...). Scotland is a very fat, very drunk country. Much more good would have been done for public health by banning Irn Bru and alcohol, but you haven&#x27;t chosen to do that because people find them rewarding. People find owning guns rewarding too, it&#x27;s just that the costs end up on the front page of the newspaper (mass shooting) rather than ignored because they&#x27;re so quotidian (millions of years of life lost due to being comically unhealthy).<p>5) Don&#x27;t focus on the type of gun. The fact that AR-15s are used in a lot of &quot;mass&quot; shootings reflects the fact that they&#x27;re the Toyota Camry of guns. Good value for money, reliable, etc. If you saw a lot of a specific kind of traffic accident, and Toyota Camrys were frequently involved, would you start to scream &quot;Ban the Camrys!&quot;? It doesn&#x27;t make any sense. The vast majority of gun murders in the U.S. are committed with cheap pistols. &lt;2% are committed with &quot;long arms&quot; of any kind, including AR-15s.
GrumpyNlalmost 3 years ago
No gun === Not able to shoot people.
jwmozalmost 3 years ago
The problem is obvious and the solution is simple.<p>Merica has had nearly 30 years to study Dunblane, England, the action and the statistics after.
gusbremmalmost 3 years ago
The boy was a perfectly good citizen for his entire life until the last millisecond before pulling the trigger.
swayvilalmost 3 years ago
the title is designed to incite flamewar. it&#x27;s clickbait.
kulikalovalmost 3 years ago
A genuine question: isn&#x27;t armed population one of the main obstacles of autocratic regimes?<p>If it is, then mass shootings is the lesser evil compared to, say, Russia, where a handful of armed psychopaths can commit war crimes on a global scale and quickly take down any internal opposition.
a_square_pegalmost 3 years ago
Maybe slightly off-topic, but I think this is a part of a larger trend of a declining empire - its inability to solve problems that have already become non-issues in other societies. From big issues like healthcare to small stuff like getting rid of pennies, I&#x27;m amazed at how the US is beholden to special interest groups under the guise of democracy and freedom, as well as its exceptionalism.<p>One can see this in dysfunctional companies, from its inability to acknowledge the root of the problem (e.g. trying to solve product problems with re-branding), bloated bureaucracy and rent-seeking behavours (e.g. we&#x27;ll just raise the price!).<p>I really do hope things get better because the outcome is very scary but I also don&#x27;t have much hope.
评论 #31513974 未加载
评论 #31514037 未加载
评论 #31513876 未加载
评论 #31514208 未加载
评论 #31514117 未加载
评论 #31513963 未加载
评论 #31514173 未加载
whatever1almost 3 years ago
We need gory pictures from the executed kids everywhere.<p>Until we understand the magnitude of the horror.<p>I look at my FB and see proud gun owners cracking jokes and I really cannot comprehend how it is possible.
评论 #31514894 未加载
评论 #31513231 未加载
评论 #31513452 未加载
评论 #31511643 未加载
评论 #31511886 未加载
my69thaccountalmost 3 years ago
Now that is a domain name with hair on its chest
nulluintalmost 3 years ago
This is a great time to make “Minority Report” a real thing with precogs catching criminals before they can act.
评论 #31514479 未加载
DeathArrowalmost 3 years ago
In some countries in Europe is legal to own guns, but still, the number of shootings per capita doesn&#x27;t equal that in US.<p>So, arguing that people die by being shot is because people can own guns is the same to arguing that people die in car accidents because people are allowed to won cars.
评论 #31515423 未加载
评论 #31515425 未加载
评论 #31515432 未加载
krnlpncalmost 3 years ago
I wish it were possible to use git with government policy. I want to diff the gun laws and health service offerings between a countries a with low gun violence and the usa to look for commonality.<p>This is an American problem and I find it strange how closed off many Americans are to adopting “best practices” from other countries who have this issue solved.
DeathArrowalmost 3 years ago
People say that gun owning should be restricted. But are the mass shootings done by people who have a gun permit and legally bought the guns?<p>Also, forbidding guns, doesn&#x27;t change people minds. If someone has a psychiatric condition he can drive a large truck into the crowd, light up a crowded building or event try to poison a water reservoir, destroy a dam, derail a train, make a bomb using gasoline, fertilizer and sugar.<p>I wonder how well the number of untreated mental health issues in US corelates with mass shootings and other mass killings.<p>Maybe the biggest factor of people dying in mass murders is not gun control, but the fact that there are some people who reach that deranged state of mind in which they think it&#x27;s ok to kill others.
评论 #31515381 未加载
评论 #31515378 未加载
评论 #31515428 未加载
评论 #31515512 未加载
jiggawattsalmost 3 years ago
Round and round we go...<p>As a foreigner, it&#x27;s appalling to see every <i>excuse</i> imaginable trotted out every time this happens.<p>Don&#x27;t think you&#x27;re fooling anyone. You&#x27;re just making things up on the spot for the sake of pretending to have a rational argument, like an intelligent adult would in your place.<p>But I will eat my shorts if you <i>personally</i> have spent even an hour doing the research before making statements about &quot;what this would do&quot;, or &quot;that wouldn&#x27;t work&quot;, or whatever. I don&#x27;t mean clicking &quot;like&quot; on a Facebook post by a fellow NRA member. Mean literally reading through scientific publications, or looking at statistics published by third parties that are unaffiliated with <i>any</i> United States organisation.<p>Or just Googling to see what the other 96% of the human race does with guns and laws.<p>&quot;&quot;No Way to Prevent This&quot;, Says Only Nation Where This Regularly Happens&quot;: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_Says_Only_Nation_Where_This_Regularly_Happens" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;%22No_Way_to_Prevent_This%22,_...</a><p>Jim Jefferies (an Australian comedian living in the States) on gun control:<p>Part #1: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=0rR9IaXH1M0</a><p>Part #2: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=a9UFyNy-rw4</a><p>Can you counter <i>every single one of his points</i>? Really? With <i>facts</i>? That you can link to in a scientific paper that wasn&#x27;t paid for by a gun lobby in the states?<p>19 children just died. Please take this a <i>tiny bit</i> seriously and don&#x27;t just click the reply link to blurt out something in a public forum that can be trivially shown to be false...
rswailalmost 3 years ago
Until Americans realize that owning a gun is a dangerous thing, there will be no change.<p>Guns are a force multiplier, they allow someone that is armed to have much greater lethality than someone that is not.<p>No, I don&#x27;t care if you go hunting or target shoot for &quot;sport&quot;. Tough. Live with it. The world won&#x27;t be worse off if you don&#x27;t shoot deer or rabbits or ducks.<p>Weapons have specific uses in agriculture (removing pests, humane disposal of injured livestock), they have specific use in law enforcement, and they have obvious use in military activities.<p>All other uses are nonsense in 2022. There are occasional times where someone armed has been able to use those arms in self-defense, but the use of <i>deadly</i> weapons as opposed to self-defense or incapacitating weapons is not an adequate reason to outweigh the disadvantages of these weapons being generally available.
评论 #31516295 未加载
rajin444almost 3 years ago
US Population growth of around 100-120 mil from the 60s&#x2F;70s onward due to primarily immigration has never been done before. No ruler who cares about their people would attempt such a thing - cultures must be joined slowly and carefully.<p>American culture started dying right around then. Shootings like this are a side effect. Maybe things will get better, but current trends appear to signal the opposite. I’m genuinely curious if a new “global” culture will come out of all this turmoil or the US will end up like Brazil.
评论 #31516555 未加载