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Elon Musk on Remote Work

141 pointsby jimmy2020almost 3 years ago

30 comments

axg11almost 3 years ago
Whichever side of the remote vs. in-person debate you fall on, I think this is a net positive for the industry. More companies are starting to become strongly opinionated on the topic and that leads to a wider spectrum of options when searching for a job. There are many people out there who hate fully-remote and are suffering as a result of the isolation. There are also people out there who are thriving due to remote work. Both can co-exist at different companies.<p>Of course, springing this on already remote workers is problematic. Tesla is no stranger to low employee retention. In the short term they will have an exodus but perhaps in the longer term they&#x27;ll have a workforce more aligned to their culture.
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toomuchtodoalmost 3 years ago
Musk is free to make these demands, Tesla employees are free to seek remote work at a more progressive (operating model, not political) org.<p>(personal opinion: remote work is the future except on the factory floor or Dojo datacenter in Tesla&#x27;s case, Elon&#x27;s belief systems are...erratic)
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nickm12almost 3 years ago
This is crazy talk from Elon. Demanding your employees spend 40 hours a week &quot;visibly present&quot; in an office, rather than judging them by the value they have delivered to your business is absurd.<p>I very much enjoy working from an office and have been commuting to my office for the last year for my software job when almost none of my coworkers were. After March I was hoping more people would come back, but its really really low. I&#x27;d estimate about 5% of people are mostly working from the office, and 20% are coming in 1-2 days a week or for team events. These roughly matches what I&#x27;ve seen in polling of tech workers. People are voting with their feet.<p>I wish it were different. I would like to work in the future with a primarily in-office culture, but I don&#x27;t see how that happens. A company that demands 40 hours in-person from people who can work remotely is not going to be able to attract the necessary talent.
baggachipzalmost 3 years ago
Beatings will continue until morale improves!
KhalPandaalmost 3 years ago
Gotta get people back to commuting ASAP, otherwise nobody will need Tesla&#x27;s, right?
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bodge5000almost 3 years ago
He also said in a tweet about it that employees who don&#x27;t like it can &quot;pretend to work somewhere else&quot;. I guess he can pretend he has any senior engineers left as well.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;elonmusk&#x2F;status&#x2F;1531867103854317568" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;elonmusk&#x2F;status&#x2F;1531867103854317568</a><p>That being said, as much as I&#x27;m not a fan of this at all, it is good to see that the execs are included (or at least the email was sent to them, so I&#x27;m giving him the benefit of the doubt). Often the people at the top who are pushing for these policies don&#x27;t apply the same to themselves.
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exabrialalmost 3 years ago
I&#x27;ll be the odd man out and say he&#x27;s right. Communication is hard enough to do effectively, let alone over remote work.<p>The only formula that seems to work: relationships were developed in person then moved to remote. But unfortunately this makes it impossible to onboard anyone. Furthermore getting this to work at scale still seems to be a challenge.<p>His presentation style... definitely cold and brusk. Wouldn&#x27;t be my approach
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nunezalmost 3 years ago
Dang, I guess all of HashiCorp&#x27;s products, or the handfuls of startups that have launched within the last few years, or some of Apple&#x27;s newest features, are &quot;not great&quot; per his definition then?<p>I love my Tesla, and I definitely prefer working from an office, but this feels like borderline 9&#x2F;9&#x2F;6 talk, and I can&#x27;t support that.
yummybearalmost 3 years ago
I used to be a Musk fan. Maybe I didn&#x27;t know enough about working conditions. But with the recent twitter stories, and this horrible bossy statement, I&#x27;m done. He&#x27;s just an asshole.
martindbpalmost 3 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand the outrage. I also like WFH, don&#x27;t want to work more than 40 hrs a week etc, but Tesla is a pressure cooker of a company, aiming for the sky, what do you expect? It&#x27;s not a lifestyle business kind of company. I like Tesla but would never want to work there myself, that&#x27;s for a specific type of extremely ambitious, smart people without many obligations to family etc.
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UnpossibleJimalmost 3 years ago
The messaging is... problematic, which is nothing new to Musk&#x27;s style, or lack there of. But this isn&#x27;t very far fetched from what Nadella was saying in 2020 of Cook has started to say or Google has been saying of late(but with MUCH better messaging). These corporations with huge offices and large management infrastructures mean they have invested large amounts of money in both.<p>To completely retool their management style&#x2F;concept and leave their gaudy, one-off offices half empty would be a huge waste of capital and, more importantly, ego. To begin from a place of &quot;Get your work done and we&#x27;ll review that&quot; instead of &quot;let&#x27;s see how many hours you&#x27;re willing to work to show your dedication&quot; is a giant shift in the relationship dynamic, as well. I understand that this isn&#x27;t all managers and companies, but I think most people can agree that there is a prevalence in the software industry (and others, I assume... I only know a few, so I stick to software, art and cooking but only software seems relevant to this conversation).
jefflombardjralmost 3 years ago
Well hardly surprising that a large manufacturer of &quot;commuting devices&quot; is against remote work.
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eric4smithalmost 3 years ago
Finally someone said it.<p>There was a reason for the office. As an employer I can tell you most (not all) workers are not able to properly contribute remotely.<p>Some jobs further require people to be together to properly collaborate.<p>Communication is already very hard already, and “Out of sight, out of mind” is a real thing.<p>I hope more companies insist workers come back to the office and end the madness of everyone demanding remote work.<p>In principle remote is doable but in practice most humans are easily distracted and we will be distracted.
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chaselyalmost 3 years ago
I wonder how IC employees and middle managers will deal with the mandate.<p>Let&#x27;s assume you manage a team of six engineers and two people decide to just not come into the office but continue working. Will you fire them? It would take 6-9 months to hire, onboard, and get the new engineers to a point comparable to the ones you just fired. Meanwhile I&#x27;m guessing you&#x27;re not going to get much leniency in hitting our KPIs because 33% of your team just left.
kelseyfrogalmost 3 years ago
Elon clearly has a Hobbesian conceptualization of power. Key phrases in his memo precipitate gracefully from the very same naturall power, instrumentall power, relative power, and ceding power that Hobbes lays out in Leviathan. Let me demonstrate.<p>&gt; Tesla has and will create and actually manufacture the most exciting and meaningful products of any company on Earth.<p>Here Elon describes the consequences for working from the office. It is the use of power as the ability to secure well-being or personal advantage &#x27;to obtain some future apparent Good&#x27;. It&#x27;s to affect a change in the world - the ability to manufacture exciting and meaningful products.<p>&gt; If you don&#x27;t show up, we will assume you have resigned.<p>Elon directly connects presence with power in this statement. Resignation is the ultimate absence of the power to affect change within Telsa in the same way that not showing up is. Conversely, Tesla&#x27;s power is the aggregation of the presence of its workforce. Instrumentall power is definitionally the aggregation of power and they buying of compliance. Tesla&#x27;s buying of compliance are the wages paid in exchange for labor.<p>&gt; There are of course companies that don&#x27;t require this, but when was the last time they shipped a great new product? It&#x27;s been a while.<p>In this passage, Elon establishes a conceptualization of relative power. He strikes a comparison between companies that require presence and those that don&#x27;t. Those that do have the power to ship &#x27;great new product&#x27;s, and those that don&#x27;t, don&#x27;t.<p>&gt; The more senior you are, the more visible must be your presence.<p>This equation constructs an equivalence between power and presence. It is under-girded by the assumption that a manager&#x27;s power is the aggregation of power (compliance) ceded by their direct reports. Those with more aggregate power must show more presence. &quot;That&#x27;s why I lived at the factory so much,&quot; is evidence that Elon sees himself as having the most presence and therefore the most power.<p>I&#x27;ve demonstrated how Elon has a Hobbesian account of power directly tied to Hobbes&#x27; ideas of naturall power, instrumentall power, relative power, and ceding power. Elon sees himself as the culmination of this power and consequently he see&#x27;s Tesla as his Leviathan.
pulse7almost 3 years ago
I love working for &quot;companies that don&#x27;t require this&quot; and shipping (in Elon&#x27;s view) non-&quot;great new products&quot;... and being able to spend time with my family every afternoon&#x2F;evening...
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ar_lanalmost 3 years ago
I guess I&#x27;ll be waiting to apply to Twitter until after all this Elon drama is over :)
renewiltordalmost 3 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand why this is a big deal. He wants to run his company like this. You guys don&#x27;t want to work at a company like this. Neither of you wants the other but you&#x27;re upset by this?
jklinger410almost 3 years ago
If the owner of the company I worked for, who invested well over 40 hour weeks so he could become insanely rich, wrote an email that referred to 40 hours <i>minimum</i> in such a flippant way, I would 100% find a new company to work for.<p>This idea that Musk famously risked it all to make Tesla so he could come out as a billionaire does not scale down to an individual level for employees. Musk slept on the floor so he could become insanely wealthy, not to get a $10k&#x2F;year raise.<p>This type of manipulation is constantly abused by rich oligarchs. They start these endeavors usually with huge parachutes, and then expect their hourly employees to risk nearly as much as they did, with no parachutes, and without the world changing profits that come with it. Citing hard work the entire way, knowing full well that it is the hard work of their employees that they depend on to keep the gears moving, but that those hard workers will not become the next Musk or Gates, regardless of how many hours they put in.<p>If I&#x27;m wrong, I want a list of millionaires that Musk has created. Bonus points if they still work at Tesla and didn&#x27;t have to spin their experience off into another project, so the work-to-profit transfer can be 1:1.
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whatever1almost 3 years ago
Work harder slaves! Twitter’s acquisition will not pay itself!
015aalmost 3 years ago
This is probably unpopular, and certainly a personal opinion; but the more time I&#x27;ve put into remote gigs (in-person gig going remote during COVID, then switching to a full-remote company) the more I agree.<p>Everyone has different life contexts, and for some people remote is the best way for them to be productive. It&#x27;s also likely that it&#x27;s generally a better balance between corporate demands and peoples&#x27; lives. For me; its made work worse.<p>The worst part is on-boarding new remote employees; especially those with less seniority in the industry. It SUCKS. It really sucks. Effective onboarding is quite fundamentally predicated on drive-by questions; and remote makes asking any drive-by question ten times less efficient, even in the most well-meaning teams, its typing, its timezones, its meetings scheduled for the next day, its screen sharing at 720p because someone doesn&#x27;t know how to use Zoom, its that gut uncertainty that the &quot;hi do you have ten minutes to meet&quot; message from your manager could mean anything from a catch-up to a you&#x27;re fired because you&#x27;re blind to every nonverbal social cue anyone in-person could pick up on.<p>Then there&#x27;s the separation of work and home. Driving sucks; undoubtably. But put that aside and just look at the space. Everyone&#x27;s home is different, but I&#x27;ll describe the few experiences I&#x27;ve had. At the start: living alone. Going from constant, positive human interaction every day to nothing but pixels on a screen. The people who will clinically admit this negatively affects their mental health are oftentimes the same people pushing for more remote work; like having their cake and eating it too, except &quot;eating it&quot; means &quot;destroying your brain&quot;. Then, living with a SO who was also working remote. I actually have no idea how people manage this without a 3 bedroom house in the suburbs. Most people don&#x27;t have this, and I&#x27;m sure it works for those who do. She&#x27;s on meetings half the day; I&#x27;m in meetings a quarter the day; the cats are zooming around at 10 miles per hour; the dog needs to be walked; we agree &quot;we need a bigger space&quot; and then look at real estate prices and realize that has to mean moving to the middle of nowhere and leaving our entire lives behind (don&#x27;t worry; we can still play games and chat online with our old friends; thus, we&#x27;ve remotified our entire lives, from work to play; the only experience we enjoy in-person anymore is shopping at the suburban walmart in the strip mall. And, of course, each other, and we&#x27;ll keep telling ourselves that&#x27;s enough).<p>I can&#x27;t reconcile the facts that I worked in this industry for five years, in person, and never experienced the burn-out I am now, with the fact that <i>everything</i> should be better. The job is fantastic. Remote coworkers, unbelievably friendly, smart, knowledgable. No commute. Great technology. Pooping on my own toilet every day. Everything is great, most of it sucks.<p>Working for Tesla would suck though. &quot;40 hours a week at least&quot; is insane.
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malwarebytessalmost 3 years ago
So based on this clarification, then, it was targeted to executives. If that is the case I really don&#x27;t see the problem.
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giuliomagnificoalmost 3 years ago
Well, if you are working from home you don’t need to buy a <i>insert Tesla model</i> to go to work, quite simply =]
camjohnson26almost 3 years ago
Tesla seems to get a lot of work out of its employees because of how appealing the company’s mission is, but this seems like a recipe for burnout. Every employee must work 40 hours per week in a main Tesla office, unless Elon Musk himself personally approves the exception. Factory workers apparently have even more required of them.
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newshortsalmost 3 years ago
So I wonder what happens to all those fully remote twitter jobs…
PaulKeeblealmost 3 years ago
Elon Musk a few months from now &quot;There is a labour shortage and nobody wants to work&quot;.
sys_64738almost 3 years ago
He&#x27;s the modern day Howard Hughes.
tamaharboralmost 3 years ago
I am old enough to remember when everyone loved Elon Musk.
T0pH4talmost 3 years ago
He is not exactly wrong... email could be a bit better phrased and mandating X hrs may be a bit extreme. Overall though his main point about a great product not being built over the phone IMO is correct. At the very least you stand a substantially smaller chance of doing so...
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djohnstonalmost 3 years ago
We can criticise the on premise policy but at least Elon walks the walk, I find it inspiring. He lives in the factories!
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