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The State Of Railway e-Ticketing In India

70 pointsby mindprinceover 13 years ago

21 comments

todsulover 13 years ago
I just spent 6 months in India, which included a 12,000km circumnavigation of the country by rail. A team of 20 of us, half rail enthusiasts, half travellers and entrepreneurs, spent 2 weeks on Indian trains venturing to the country's most Western, Northern, Eastern and Southern points (in that order). We travelled a little in unreserved and Sleeper class, but mostly 3AC and 2AC. It was by far my favourite travel experience ever (after travelling extensively across 6 continents).<p>The Indian rail and ticketing systems are chaos personified. As a traveller post-India, I love the adventure of just trying to buy a ticket from a station. (Quick tip: stand wide, shoulders broad, with ticket form in hand blocking access to the hole in the ticketing window so others can't push through.) But, thinking back as an Indian-rail newbie, my goodness!<p>As an entrepreneur on a trip like this (full of industry experts), I couldn't help but see business opportunities. When I say experts, I mean guys that can recite the Indian rail timetable (approx. the size of the Yellow Pages) without missing a beat. They're also the guys that dominate the popular India rail forum called IndiaMike.com. The depth of their knowledge was staggering. When someone like me meets people like them, we can't help but plot and conspire.<p>From a business perspective, the problem with building an Indian Rail startup was getting access to the rail information. We had grand plans and certainly the expertise, but then came the stories of bureaucracy. Forget publicly accessible APIs, the IRCTC would apparently only give access through bribes. A couple of people I spoke with talked of requests for US$40k. (Dinner and expensive champagne is one thing, but $40k is on another planet.)<p>So why compete with Cleartrip, et al? Well, they're just not intuitive or efficient. They're actually a pain in the ass. We envisaged something like Hipmunk for Indian train travel. But rather than being satisfied with just better design, we saw an opportunity to bring Indian rail travel to the average foreign traveller. Of course, the last thing the Indian rail system needs is more passengers, but it felt such a shame that most people would never experience India the way we did.<p>In the end there were just too many hurdles. For starters, you can't book foreign tourist allocated seats over the internet (despite bribes and access to APIs). You can't even book them at most stations. Then there are issues with IndRail passes and availability. You can book tickets 90 days out, but the volume of ticket sales in India is mind-blowing. If someone wants to travel cross-country next month, sometimes they'll buy 5 different days and just cancel the 4 extra as they get closer to the day. The cancellation fee is so low that it makes sense. So in a country with 1.1 billion people, imagine people booking multiple tickets to provide flexibility. This is why there's such an insane last minute frenzy.<p>I still think there's an opportunity here, but the data needs to be made accessible. In my opinion, this kind of openness requires structural and cultural change in government. I hate to say it, but don't hold your breath.<p>All of that said, I highly recommend travel by Indian rail to anyone. We were a mixed group of Brits, Americans, Canadians, Australians, etc and were treated more warmly than anywhere on the planet. Of course there were a couple of "incidents" (e.g. breast groping), but hanging out the door a speeding Indian locomotive in the middle of nowhere is something everyone should experience.<p>If you're a foreigner wanting to book Indian train tickets with minimum fuss, I've written a detailed guide here: <a href="http://globetrooper.com/notes/plan-book-train-trip-india/" rel="nofollow">http://globetrooper.com/notes/plan-book-train-trip-india/</a>
statictypeover 13 years ago
No rant on the Indian Railway system is complete without mentioning the disaster that is the 'Thatkal' quota booking at 8 in the morning.<p>Years ago when I was one of the few people among friends and family that had good internet and a credit card, I used to book a lot of tickets for others. Out of frustration, I wrote a simple python script that automated the process of booking tickets at 8 in the morning.<p>It would log you in, fill in the passenger details, payment mode etc.. and boot you into a browser for the final bank transaction screen. It was fast because it wouldn't actually wait to download the html screens before submitting the data. It would scrape the main page's date and sync itself with it to submit the booking exactly at 8am. I was able to finish a booking in less than 30sec.<p>After spending a few days prodding their system to make this hack work, I learned just what a mess their backend was.<p>They have a form variable called 'clickCount' which they increment and pass around on every page. This is how they 'detect' that you clicked a link twice and helpfully log you out.<p>Their validation and actual processing of passenger genders is case-insensitive - they accept either 'M' or 'm'. However the final ticket printout you get will show all passengers as female unless the gender you sent in was in upper case (curiously though the actual official print out pasted on the train when travelling contains correct genders - I have no idea why).<p>I presume many people had similar scripts to what I had and so eventually in an attempt to circumvent it, they introduced captchas. Turns out the captchas didn't actually work.<p>I know this because my script continued to work for a long time and only a few months after they introduced captchas (when I visited the website the normal way to make a booking) did I even know they introduced it. I can only presume that if you didn't actually submit the 'captcha' form variable then they didn't bother to validate it. So the irony was that the people booking tickets the normal way suffered while the rest of us working around the system were rewarded.<p>Finally they realized this at some point and threw in the towel and just banned quick booking altogether from 8-9 because they couldn't figure out any other way to actually solve this problem. So yeah, I'm probably part of the reason that happened (though by no means the only one who did this type of hackery,I'm sure).
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harichinnanover 13 years ago
The whole point of having such a weird system is to make it "difficult" for you to book a ticket. Think about the "common man" standing in a queue for 4-8 hrs trying to book that ticket when you could ideally book using your coolest newest gadget in seconds. Now that would cause a riot at the railway station booth. In Indian you never have enough resources available for the 1.3 billion people. So everything is rationed, including the online train tickets. It's like the IIT's or IIM's conducting the world's toughest entrance examinations only to select a statistically insignificant 1% of the applicants. Great Indian politics demands badly run government services. Private services are still banned in a number of areas including private universities, public transportation, power, Aeronautics ....
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eliover 13 years ago
<i>Every day from 23:30 to 0:30 the server is down for maintenance. Seriously, every day? Their server needs maintenance every fucking day? Which technology are they using?</i><p>A mainframe that does batch processing at night.
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Indyanover 13 years ago
The IRCTC website was frequently cited as an example of "what not to do" during the training phase in my company.<p>Cleartrip on the other hand is a shining example of stuff done right. It's one of the friendliest websites I have ever used. Don't have an account? No problem. You can still go ahead and book a ticket, Cleartrip will drop a gentle reminder to set your password to create an account, <i>after</i> you have booked your ticket. Forgot your password? Again, no problem. Cleartrip will allow you to go ahead with the booking, and send the link to reset your password to your email.
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sidjhaover 13 years ago
I like how @dcurtis approached a similar problem with his open letter containing a redesign of the horrific aa.com website:<p><a href="http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.dustincurtis.com/dear_american_airlines.html</a><p>I'm not sure how effective such an approach would be considering it's much harder to get Indian organizations (especially a Government one, oh boy) to respond to feedback of the people, but it's definitely worth a try.<p>As some of us know, Anna Hazare and his stellar campaign against corrupt politicians in India is an inspiration to get Governments to act.
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yaacovtpover 13 years ago
I survived backpacking in India using <a href="http://www.cleartrip.com/trains" rel="nofollow">http://www.cleartrip.com/trains</a> for all train reservations.
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dsrikanthover 13 years ago
Oh boy that reminds me of all my similar experience with IRCTC. If I need to book a ticket for a busy weekend, I get my friends at various other locations to try and book the same. We all stay on conference call and when one person books it, others stop trying. Usually tickets open for booking at 8:00 am and the server is literally dead for the next 1 hour.
random99over 13 years ago
Well, let's just hope that they don't do it like they did in Finland. Good luck! 1. <a href="http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/domestic-news/general/16782-part-of-finnish-railways-ticketing-system-tested-in-india-paper-.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/domestic-news/general/167...</a> 2. <a href="http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?17,2578324" rel="nofollow">http://www.trainorders.com/discussion/read.php?17,2578324</a>
jrockwayover 13 years ago
Clearly the solution is to offshore the job to the US.
hsshahover 13 years ago
The reason is; people who can influence a change (bureaucrats, politicians, businessmen etc) use intermediaries (agents) to get things done. They never experience the pain of the "common" people. All government services are like this.
rajeshsundaramover 13 years ago
It is so funny, that I've been unlucky with 90% of my cleartrip train ticket bookings. No I did not mean, failure to book. But it is that, I end up cancelling those tickets! LOL.<p>IMO, IRCTC UI with its "just-ok"user experience, has almost all the options readily available. Whereas, Cleartrip does not. Cleartrip tries to keep things simple here, but I guess it does not work good for certain areas like Cancelling the ticket, or filing for TDR etc. Often it takes extra clicks to refine my train searches.
swapsmagicover 13 years ago
It's the same experience most of the indian railway travelers have faced (including me) and so i have put my 2 cent by creating this website which helps travelers to track their ticket status on mobile/email. site: <a href="http://www.railpnrstatus.com" rel="nofollow">http://www.railpnrstatus.com</a><p>I think as a HN reader you should also think in those line and give ur 2 cents by improving the system.
nakkali_kuereover 13 years ago
This is the state of the English language edition, forget about the it in local language with translator's laziness there actually no word of the local language used instead the English is just transliterated in the local script. It might be possible to learn English the same day and read it rather than trying to read in the local language.
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mmahemoffover 13 years ago
I think Transport For London used to be more protective of its data, but ironically budget cuts meant govt departments like TFL realised they can get much better leverage by opening up to third-party apps. The creative power of constraints.
chrisbennetover 13 years ago
I believe it is interesting and relevant but I'd be more sympathetic to the author if he hadn't disabled the ability to go back to HN after I read it. WTF?
foobarkidover 13 years ago
Why cant they hire ONE decent programmer who can come up with a good design !!
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fungiover 13 years ago
sounds like you could hack around much of that with a firefox / chrome extension.
pitdesiover 13 years ago
The more interesting and useful thing about this rant is that companies have come in and done something about this problem and started making money doing so. Historically you could avoid the lines at Indian railways by using offline travel agents who charged their commission. A few venture-backed* companies have brought that model into the 21st century - IRCTC sucks, so they put a pretty interface on it that doesn't suck and charge 10-20 rupees (25-50 US cents!) extra per booking:<p><a href="http://www.cleartrip.com/trains" rel="nofollow">http://www.cleartrip.com/trains</a>, <a href="http://www.makemytrip.com/railways" rel="nofollow">http://www.makemytrip.com/railways</a>, <a href="http://www.yatra.com/trains.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.yatra.com/trains.html</a><p>Solve a problem like the Indian Government (IRCTC is a government undertaking) like this and you'll have lots of takers for 10-20 rupees. They offer a better user interface, saved payment details, a consolidated place for air &#38; rail bookings and better customer support.<p>*Cleartrip is funded by Kleiner Perkins, Ram Sriram, and Concur. MakeMyTrip by several top asian funds, and Yatra by Norwest Venture Partners and Intel Capital
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geekinover 13 years ago
Frankly, I am shocked to see why this story is trending on HN. A college student ranting about the biggest railways booking system ? really ?
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rottenapple87over 13 years ago
This post imho is attracting way too much attention than it actually deserves. Well IRCTC is the least of the worries about Indian Railways. Well, the technology they seem to be using is not the best around, but considering their financial and time limitations, they are trying to put out the best they can.<p>Best service certainly comes at a greater cost(yes, monetarily) which the govt is in no luxury to afford and IMHO, they certainly are trying to put out the best they can. (Just look at the figures the internet majors spend on scaling up and you'd understand.)<p>Convenience charges : You sir have to realize that because of IRCTC you need not waste fuel, stand in huge queues etc. and thus you have to appreciate that part and pay up the nominal amount. I think they should charge the convenience charges at least for the next few years, may be because the employees still have to be paid and can not be asked to quit their jobs even if you do not go to the reservation counter.<p>I do accept that Indian Railways being a govt. organization as expected is corrupt and is not efficient etc, but well its not all that bad.
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