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Life is not short

820 pointsby dbreretonalmost 3 years ago

60 comments

throwaway23234almost 3 years ago
At 35 I decided to fuck the &quot;normal life&quot; and just go RVing with my wife. We saw the country (US). Fast forward 7 years and we are now building our own house paycheck to paycheck. It&#x27;s a beautiful property. I know there are people on here that have much, much more and could afford to buy an already existing house. But my dreams are to have a different kind of life, so in that sense I am definitely living that. Yes there are mornings I wish I can wake up and NOT want to install my own well pump, install mini splits in 105 degree weather, install siding, dig foundations, run 40 80-pound bags of cement in a mixer, 2 at a time. etc etc etc...<p>But my alternative life would have been spending the last 7 years playing new versions of Call of Duty and kinda pissing time away.
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sh4rksalmost 3 years ago
&gt; You should organize each day as if it were your last<p>I never understood this. If you live every day as your last, surely you would only engage in short term pleasures instead of pursuing longer term hobbies&#x2F;goals?
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bwest87almost 3 years ago
&gt; You should organize each day as if it were your last, so that you neither need to long for nor fear the next day.<p>I&#x27;ve come to find this &quot;live each day like it&#x27;s your last&quot; advice to be pretty unhelpful. My favorite quote about it is, &quot;all that goes to show you is some people would spend their last day giving you stupid advice&quot;.<p>The problem is that if it actually was your last day, most people would give the finger to all of their responsibilities and go party, eat cake, see friends, familiy, lovers, etc. Which is simply not an actual way to <i>live</i> your life. It&#x27;s a way to exit your life.<p>An alternative framing that I&#x27;ve come to find more helpful is to take your life expectancy, and cut it by 2&#x2F;3. Now what do you do? For example, if you&#x27;re 20 years old and your life expectancy is 80 (ie. 60 more years), pretend that you only have 20 more, so you&#x27;ll only live until you&#x27;re 40. It&#x27;s nice cause it naturally adjusts as you get older. You&#x27;ll have smaller windows to work with.<p>This approach strikes a nice balance. It gives you enough time to be able to really do something and change directions if you want. But not so much time that you can really waste any. It forces you to ask the hard questions about whether your day to day is truly connecting with your dreams, and whether you&#x27;re on a path to get there.<p>Of course, Seneca didn&#x27;t have life expectancy tables to work with. But I think he would have approved. :)
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nlhalmost 3 years ago
Here&#x27;s a mundane (but I hope helpful) take on a portion of this:<p>&gt; The most surprising thing is that you wouldn’t let anyone steal your property, but you consistently let people steal your time<p>This line struck the strongest nerve with me. I&#x27;ve started to REALLY pay attention to this and fight back, where I can.<p>Example: I subscribe to a meal prep service. They recently stopped sending out the weekly reminder email to choose your meals, and I chatted with CS to figure out the issue. They said &quot;we suggest you put a reminder on your calendar so you don&#x27;t forget to order from us in case our email doesn&#x27;t go out&quot;.<p>I explained to them: &quot;Sorry guys, I am paying you to save time. You do not get to add an item to my to-do list&quot; and cancelled my account.<p>This kind of thing happens SO often with businesses. &quot;To fix your problem with us, please go through these series of steps&quot;. It&#x27;s maddening.<p>There are only 4 entities that get to forcibly add items to my to-do list: Me, my wife, my CEO, and the US government ;)
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ryandrakealmost 3 years ago
&gt; It’s even worse when people come up with deferred life plans. They’ll say something like “When I’m forty, I’m going to retire and write a book” or “I’ll do this thing I hate right now so I can make money, then in ten years I’ll do what I really love”. Seriously? You think that the universe is going to let your life proceed the way you want it to? What guarantee do you have of making it to that age?<p>This is often used as a reason not to save when you&#x27;re young, and to generally dunk on the the traditional idea of retirement. Believe this and in a few decades we&#x27;re going to have a large number of people aged 80-120 seriously struggling. Apart from a recent dip, average life expectancy in the US has been going up pretty much forever. Life is not necessarily long, but it can be. Yes, you might drop dead of a heart attack the day before you retire, so all that saving was a waste. You also might make it past 100. Who among us has enough savings to last until they are 100? You won&#x27;t if you&#x27;re spending every penny you have when you&#x27;re young.<p>Thanks to compounding interest, the best time to save and invest is when you are young. A dollar earned and invested when you&#x27;re 20 is many times more valuable than that dollar earned when you&#x27;re 60.
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chapsalmost 3 years ago
Hm. I dunno about others, but whenever I hear someone say that, what I hear is that <i>sections</i> of our life are short. Childhood is short, teenage years are short, early twenties are short, etc etc. Cumulatively it&#x27;s &quot;long&quot;, but that misses a lot of the core point.
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woopwoopalmost 3 years ago
I like this quote from an otherwise terrible Chris rock movie:<p>&quot;Some people say life is short and that you could get hit by a bus at any moment and that you have to live each day like it&#x27;s your last. Bullshit. Life is long. You&#x27;re probably not gonna get hit by a bus. And you&#x27;re gonna have to live with the choices you make for the next fifty years.&quot;
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giantg2almost 3 years ago
Yeah, there&#x27;s not a lot of <i>real</i> choices in life once you hit a certain age&#x2F;condition.<p>Once you get married and have a family, it&#x27;s basically just grinding away at work, with chores, etc. Stuff that just has to get done, or the consequences are catastrophic (divorce, medical bill bankruptcy, losing the house, etc).
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ChrisMarshallNYalmost 3 years ago
I have found that I sometimes need &quot;down time.&quot; This may involve sitting in a recliner, reading junk fiction, or watching vapid TV shows.<p>When I am &quot;on,&quot; I am <i>really</i> &quot;on.&quot; I like to be constantly &quot;producing&quot; stuff. I tend to not do much &quot;farting around.&quot; All my work needs to have some deliverable goal.<p>It&#x27;s not necessarily for the best. I probably miss out on a lot of creative exploration. I&#x27;m very empirical. I think that abstract thinkers may come up with some really cool stuff, and they may do that, while sitting in a coffee shop, staring vacantly out the window.
isollialmost 3 years ago
Related: it strikes me as a paradox that we are envious of people in their 20s because they have their whole life ahead of them, and feel sorry for people in their 80s who have their life behind them. Does it mean we value the potential more than the realized? Is a potential life worth more, perhaps because it still contains all the promises of potential futures, while a life lived has been whittled down to a single path, with all the mistakes and regrets that it entails?
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Al-Khwarizmialmost 3 years ago
<i>&quot;No one is willing to hand out their money randomly, but that’s exactly what you do with your time. You’re very frugal with your physical possessions, but when it comes to your time, you’re wasteful of the only thing in the world that you should actually be frugal with.&quot;</i><p>This is something where I frequently have arguments with my wife (mild and civilized, not that it&#x27;s a real problem or anything). For example, suppose that we buy something online that is, say, $20, and it isn&#x27;t up to our (or her) expectations. She will want to return it, and ask for my help. But my position is: returning it takes time (going to the website and finding out how to make a return, preparing the package, possibly waiting in a line in the post office), and for me that time is worth more than $20, so I&#x27;d rather lose the $20 and not do it (time has grown increasingly valuable in the last few years because we have a kid, so while we have decent savings, our amount of free time for ourselves -not kid-related- is close to zero).<p>I&#x27;m pretty sure my position makes sense, but it&#x27;s difficult to convey it in a way that doesn&#x27;t seem like I&#x27;m just &quot;not caring&quot; (I think part of the issue might be that for me, devoting time to things like doing a return, taking more time for a purchase to find a discount, etc. is just a chore, and she somewhat likes it) so we end up in a middle ground where each gives in a little.<p>PS: I am fully conscious that I&#x27;m writing this from a privileged position as there are people for whom those $20 would be a godsend, and it does make me feel somewhat guilty to take positions like this sometimes, but it&#x27;s inevitable that one judges with respect to the scarcity of each resource in their own circumstances... and in my case it&#x27;s free time which I consider to be very, very scarce. The fact that the $20 could be highly valuable to other people doesn&#x27;t make it more senseful for me to spend some of my scarce free time on them if I need the time more.
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waingakealmost 3 years ago
Read Martin Hagland for a much more applicable take on this. The primary way we waste time is via waged employment. For this reason most people have very little control over how they are spending their limited time alive <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;20&#x2F;if-god-is-dead-your-time-is-everything" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.newyorker.com&#x2F;magazine&#x2F;2019&#x2F;05&#x2F;20&#x2F;if-god-is-dead...</a>
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adamnemecekalmost 3 years ago
Life is short because society takes so much of it. School wastes so much of your time, employment likewise. Some sort of drastic change is needed.oog
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zandjageralmost 3 years ago
This is giving me a bit of a Zizek-ian &quot;wisdom&quot; feeling. E.g. in &quot;Putting things off for the future is the biggest waste of a life. You deny yourself the present by promising the future.&quot; one can make the counter-argument of the entire marshmallow experiment with children where the whole point is to actually put things off for the future!
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th2398423984almost 3 years ago
Any advice for someone who has not done anything other than work in the last 15 years (weekends and vacations spent home indoors etc.)? I spend my free time obsessing how I&#x27;m pissing away my time on this planet and at the same time terrified of doing something else.
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Trasmattaalmost 3 years ago
Anyone else been increasingly dissatisfied by Stoicism lately? It&#x27;s been super in vogue for about a decade now in tech for some reason. I&#x27;ve read several books on it, and apply some of the practices, but there&#x27;s something that doesn&#x27;t sit quite right that I haven&#x27;t fully been able to put my finger on it yet.
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aaraujo002almost 3 years ago
Life is short in a sense that I know I won’t have time to learn about everything there is to learn. I won’t have time to study and understand the proof of Fermat Last Theorem, the latest breakthroughs of physics. I won’t be able learn piano like a professional or violin. I know that I won’t have time to read many classic of literature, etc. I can choose to do certain things but now I have to choose where to focus my time.
yieldcrvalmost 3 years ago
&gt; Everyone complains about how short life is, but that perspective is broken. Life is not short. The real issue is that we waste so much of it.<p>&gt; Life is long enough for you to achieve your wildest dreams. You’re just so busy wasting it that you get to the end without living much of it.<p>Hey guys, what kind of fallacy is this? This observation presented is saying its not <i>too</i> short to live your wildest dreams, but isn&#x27;t refuting the idea that it is short, which is a common view of relative time that is shared amongst people.<p>My observation is that we can spend too much of it chasing our wildest dreams, while their observation is that people spent too much time wasting it (as if that is exclusive from not chasing their wildest dreams).<p>Kind of all points to the idea that it is short, and doesn&#x27;t bother refuting the supposition.
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dangusalmost 3 years ago
The article is extremely dismissive toward the real reason most people waste time. The vast majority of the world is working for basic subsistence.<p>60% of the world&#x27;s population does not have a flushing toilet at home. Hopefully the author&#x27;s magic wand is a hella good one.
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rgiffordalmost 3 years ago
Don&#x27;t like most &quot;progress people,&quot; don&#x27;t like most philosophy, don&#x27;t like most self help.<p>If you have &quot;it&quot; figured out, why is that not enough? All I can see are ulterior motives: a desperate need to feel seen or remembered or virtuous or important, something to sell, an attempt to elevate one&#x27;s status, etc.
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mrkrameralmost 3 years ago
I agree with this; I wasted so much time in my childhood and teenage years doing nothing and feeling bored. Eventually years later I realized how much destructive it was for me both mentally and physically. Children and young people need to be guided in the early stages of their life because they will be disoriented just like me.
mib32almost 3 years ago
Hey, but what I should do, if, say, I don’t have my own house and I really need to buy one? How can I just stop doing what I don’t love in that situation?<p>Also, what about the situation when one day you really love your work and find it very interesting and fulfilling, but the other day it’s just the opposite?
himalayan_yakalmost 3 years ago
Different take - it is pointless to think life as short or long. Life just is. You ARE in this moment of conscious time (to borrow Descartes). Anything else is either memory (history) or future yet to be.<p>You, your &#x27;self&#x27; are defined by your memory that is the consequences of the paths you took and not the ones you could have, and just like that your future will be the paths you take in this moment. Some try to make effort to be the best version of themselves, some try to live in this moment and many are in between. I do not think there&#x27;s anything wrong with either extremes as long as you consciously and willingly do it, and sign up for the consequences. But.. idk.. I find this &#x27;life is long vs short&#x27; debate a bit besides the point. I mean we do everything to fit the curve of 100 years of life - first quarter: education, second quarter: career, start family etc. May be its a perception thing - you&#x27;re 40 and suddenly you realize you didn&#x27;t become the astronaut you thought you&#x27;d be when you&#x27;re grow up: how quickly life has passed by. To me personally, framing life as short vs long doesn&#x27;t provide much solace in this situation but rather the one with culmination of past choices does.
charlie0almost 3 years ago
Lots of comments here about tradeoffs between having fun and working hard. I&#x27;d say work hard, but take a year off every decade or so and just enjoy it.<p>Personally, I find it hard to get away from work, because getting away means changing mindsets and changing mindset takes longer than 48 hours or even a week of vacation. If you&#x27;ve ever quit your job voluntarily and lived in another country for a bit, you&#x27;ll know what I&#x27;m talking about.
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lemursagealmost 3 years ago
`Life is not short if you&#x27;re lucky?*` I think that&#x27;s what Seneca would have said back in the day. Nowadays, at least for the developed countries we could state `Life is not short if you&#x27;re not unlucky`.<p>That said, many good things in life require time, work and careful planning (for somebody this could be building a house, finishing uni, perhaps raising a kid, tons of examples apply). Those that really bring fulfilment and satisfaction, where you can look back at this and say &quot;I did that myself&quot;. Moment and day-like successes feel often like a serotonin hit, but do not persist long. So, I may say that I disagree with the premise of the article. What is often perceived as wasting time aka &quot;watching Netflix&quot;, &quot;playing games&quot;, &quot;drinking with friends&quot;, turns out to be indispensable for us when we need to chew through mundane chores to reach the long-term goal we really strive for. But, if we&#x27;re unlucky, we don&#x27;t get to see the final result. A middle ground would be to start enjoying the small milestones?
YoniMessing88almost 3 years ago
You could live your entire life right. Save money, build a family, find the love of your life, and have it all come crashing down in a single instant for any number of reasons. That terrifies me for some reason.
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nnoitraalmost 3 years ago
Yes it is despite what seneca says.<p>People obsessed about not wasting their lives are actually the ones that waste it.
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uvdn7almost 3 years ago
In this sense, TV and smart phone waste people much of their lives. And it’s only going to get worse for the coming generations.
claylimoalmost 3 years ago
I talked with a financial advisor. He said for some of his higher end clients who have 25 million dollars that are simply sitting around in investments. The money is doing nothing for them except accumulate. He advises them to at least spend some of it.
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jdthedisciplealmost 3 years ago
This is making me want to quit my CS program: I asked about that here recently... <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31284802" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31284802</a><p>&gt; It’s even worse when people come up with deferred life plans. They’ll say something like “When I’m forty, I’m going to retire and write a book” or “I’ll do this thing I hate right now so I can make money, then in ten years I’ll do what I really love”. Seriously? You think that the universe is going to let your life proceed the way you want it to? What guarantee do you have of making it to that age?<p>This makes me want to quit University RIGHT NOW...
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hydrok9almost 3 years ago
My opinion as a long time gaming &quot;connoisseur:&quot; there are many games that can engage with your sense of empathy, wonder, reconsider your and society&#x27;s ethics, and build your creative and logical problem-solving skills. All good things, but there comes a time when you are just trying to get blood from a stone. When you feel like you aren&#x27;t getting as much out of gaming as you used to, retire. There&#x27;s so much more to life than gaming.
HL33tibCe7almost 3 years ago
Life is infinitesimally short regardless of what anyone says
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netr0utealmost 3 years ago
I like the article&#x27;s perspective, but there&#x27;s a rub. The Juanes song &quot;La Vida Es Un Ratico&quot; seems to say that despite the best efforts to not waste time, life is still short (the &quot;ratico&quot; part). And that was in 2007!<p>Unfortunately, I don&#x27;t think there&#x27;s much overlap between those on HN and those listening to Colombian rock.
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Mortifferalmost 3 years ago
I think it&#x27;s worth talking to a few people who have master or phds in Philosophie. From my sample the general rule is that staying philosophy results in your have a huge set of new questions but no answers. So i am very skeptical of spending time on reading more philosophy than i have.<p>Just a comment on that second to last paragraph. Rest is good imo
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nlstitchalmost 3 years ago
This person obviously has never had life catching up to him. My wife&#x27;s parents where both diagnosed and died of cancer over an 8 year period. First my father in law had a brain tumor, went through extensive radiation an chemo therapy and when he was dying my mother in law was diagnosed with colon cancer. She also underwent extensive chemotherapy. Both were depressed during their sickness, never wanted to leave the house but where dependant on others to take care of them. Me and my wife were caretakers and simply did not have a choice to leave for the white sandy beaches whenever we wanted; thus this author&#x27;s argument of &quot;it&#x27;s a choice&quot; clearly does NOT apply.
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verisimialmost 3 years ago
I personally like the idea that, when this life ends we judge ourselves.<p>Of course, I have no idea whether this is the reality. :)<p>Regardless, it is a idea that I find motivates me in the here and now. I don&#x27;t want to act badly, have regrets, do the right thing, etc.
stevenallyalmost 3 years ago
Stoicism is a dour, striver philosophy….<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Epicureanism" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Epicureanism</a>
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tourist_on_roadalmost 3 years ago
Looks like the site went down due. you can access the article here -- <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;QQ5iV" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;QQ5iV</a>
mjreacheralmost 3 years ago
I would like to add a comment for a perspective that&#x27;s a little different to some of the others here. I&#x27;m sure many of you here are familiar with John von Neumann. He died in 1957 at the age of 53. Throughout his life he was a busy man, and many times he deferred doing things saying that he would do them at some later unspecified date. For example he once said he would write a big treatise on von Neumann algebras, a technical mathematical subject of his own creation. However once WW2 started his interests changed and he became very involved not just in applied mathematics related to the war, but in consulting and advising too. By the 1950s the majority of his time was not spent on academic work, but rather on this latter subject, advising big important agencies of the US military on various matters.<p>Some of his colleagues at the Institute of Advanced Study and in other places resented this. They said he was wasting his time, wasting his talent, on this work that could be done by other people, while his mathematical brain could be doing academic research that others could not do. Just shortly after being appointed commissioner of the US Atomic Energy Commission (AEC), the pinnacle of his non-academic career, he was diagnosed with cancer. Within 2 years he would be dead. At the time of his first diagnosis the main academic subject he was dealing with was his theory of automata, however at first he was optimistic about his cancer and continued working heavily on things to do with the AEC. After some time the doctors made it clear to him that he was going to die soon, and he should wrap up any affairs that he wanted to complete quickly before he died.<p>Now he panicked, after living his life and having so many incomplete things he wanted to do he was going to die and he was running out of the one thing he could not escape from - time. He tried to finish the topic he was currently working on, the theory of automata, however cancer affected him quicker and quicker and he could not. He wouldn&#x27;t even finish a lecture he was asked to give - Yale&#x27;s Silliman lecture, although the lecture he didn&#x27;t finish would be cobbled together and published as a book, The Computer and the Brain, as would his work on automata, which was edited by Arthur Burks. He had grand aspirations for his theory of automata, it would be his greatest work, something he created entirely on his own, combining mathematical logic, information theory and biology. However, he put other things first, and he never got to finish it, indeed it seemed like he wanted to write far more, the book edited by Burks covered only 2 or 3 of the planned set of 5 lectures, and this was only the first set of five.<p>After he died several of his colleagues again made comments when interviewed that they felt that his talents were wasted. Considering his working life was only about 30 years they felt much of the last 10 years of his life, primarily spent consulting and working with the government, would be better spent on things that only von Neumann could do, his treatise on von Neumann algebras, his work on automata (incidentally, his theory of automata hasn&#x27;t really made much progress since he died, especially in comparison to other fields), many other things that he worked on for a bit, got interested in other things, and said he would come back to later.<p>I am not sure what conclusion I should make of this, but I hope this little story is interesting to others too.
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markus_zhangalmost 3 years ago
It is uncertainty that makes us waste so much time. If you can focus early in your life, consider yourself lucky instead of being superior to your peels.
throwawayarntyalmost 3 years ago
The days are long but the years are short.<p>It’s all about time scales.
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marbanalmost 3 years ago
<i>Death is very likely the single best invention of Life. It is Life&#x27;s change agent</i><p>— SJ
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globilealmost 3 years ago
Was waiting for someone to post PaulG&#x27;s take on this. So here goes:<p><a href="http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;vb.html" rel="nofollow">http:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.paulgraham.com&#x2F;vb.html</a>
spongechameleonalmost 3 years ago
Journey &gt; endpoints<p>&quot;Live each day like its your last&quot; is just as bad as &quot;sacrifice everything so that when you turn 65 you can retire and finally be happy&quot;
icod1almost 3 years ago
The troll clickbait titles always get the most comments
mouzogualmost 3 years ago
Was gonna write my disagreements with this article, but i think this quote sums it up:<p>&quot;There’s no better way to spend your time than studying philosophy.&quot;
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mcm1053_almost 3 years ago
These are truly my favorite types of articles on HN.
renoncealmost 3 years ago
This article just stole 10 minutes of my precious time. But I would not know if it was wasted or worth it until the time is actually spent.
dinobonesalmost 3 years ago
The good health&#x2F;good energy&#x2F;good looking period of life is like 30 years maximum. I would consider that pretty short.
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cosmiccatnapalmost 3 years ago
With all due respect, that is total bullshit.
mvkelalmost 3 years ago
To me, the stoics come across as privileged dudes who have the resources to while away their time at the top of Maslow&#x27;s Hierarchy, trying to self-actualize their way into a sense of purpose.<p>Whenever I hear the Tim Ferriss&#x27; of the world using a stoic as a motivational lever, all I can hear is &quot;just lift yourself up by your bootstraps.&quot;
ulisesrmzrochealmost 3 years ago
Ugh Seneca. No gracias. Hard pass.
groffeealmost 3 years ago
692,040 hours. That&#x27;s short.
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jcimsalmost 3 years ago
Most of us would be lucky to have 500,000 hours of conscious thought.
xchipalmost 3 years ago
Seneca already said all this 2070 years ago<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;De_Brevitate_Vitae_(Seneca)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;De_Brevitate_Vitae_(Seneca)</a>
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alexalx666almost 3 years ago
DKB.show must go on!
meta-levelalmost 3 years ago
sorry, what does &#x27;dkb&#x27; stand for?
xxxtentacijsalmost 3 years ago
AMAZING
beebmamalmost 3 years ago
Fundamentally I think you missed the point of Ecclesiastes. It is: anything you do is meaningless compared to God, and you should fear him and therefore do what He has commanded of you.<p>Excuse my French, but this God is a real asshole, and I think it&#x27;s best that people ignored these threats.
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almokhtaralmost 3 years ago
الوقت كالسيف إن لم تقطعه قطعك
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