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Bitcoin is the only coin the SEC Chair will call a commodity

159 pointsby el_sinchialmost 3 years ago

20 comments

smohnotalmost 3 years ago
He said BTC was the only cryptocurrency he was comfortable saying was a commodity, while many were securities<p>it didn&#x27;t address explicitly what all others were<p>“That’s the only one I’m going to say because I’m not going to talk about any one of these tokens”<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;SBF_FTX&#x2F;status&#x2F;1541565079992369155?s=20&amp;t=CvDEh4HgUtfKZIgX9fM6PA" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;SBF_FTX&#x2F;status&#x2F;1541565079992369155?s=20&amp;...</a>
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uncomputationalmost 3 years ago
Bitcoin has less foundation- or team-based leadership that have plagued other crypto projects. This leadership (eg Ethereum foundation) gives crypto projects the air of legitimacy, but also the impression, as Hinman put it, that some managerial work and direction is expected, tipping the scale towards security. If the network becomes decentralized to the point where no one party has sway over its direction (even a good one eg the move to proof of stake), only then can you consider it a commodity, at least in Hinman’s view.<p>Not only does this make sense but it also further speaks to the strength of the bitcoin project, specifically Satoshi’s decision to not be a public figure&#x2F;BDFL. I doubt this security-commodity issue factored in specifically, but it was really a brilliant and largely unprecedented move that aligns with bitcoin’s political philosophy as well: no leaders.
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wolframhempelalmost 3 years ago
The SEC and Wallstreet have been locked in an eternal cat and mouse game for decades. And given that Wallstreet has the money and hence the talent and options it tends to be a step ahead of the SEC.<p>I expect this will be even more true for crypto. While I believe that some regulation might be a good thing as it makes crypto safer for the wider public I am genuinely doubtful that the SEC has the capabilities or the right incentives to be that regulator.
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nootropicatalmost 3 years ago
Way too many people hold various crypto for any action now. Sec can barely deal with Ripple and that&#x27;s one of the easiest ones.
pazimzadehalmost 3 years ago
From the original Ethereum pre-sale blog post: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.ethereum.org&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;22&#x2F;launching-the-ether-sale&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.ethereum.org&#x2F;2014&#x2F;07&#x2F;22&#x2F;launching-the-ether-sal...</a><p>&gt; Ether is a product, NOT a security or investment offering. Ether is simply a token useful for paying transaction fees or building or purchasing decentralized application services on the Ethereum platform; it does not give you voting rights over anything, and we make no guarantees of its future value.
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gjsman-1000almost 3 years ago
The SEC can threaten, but they may have blown up their opportunity to regulate cryptocurrency. If they lose the <i>Ripple vs SEC</i> lawsuit (and, according to observers, it&#x27;s not been going as well for the SEC as they would wish), they could permanently lose almost all ability to regulate cryptocurrency by their lack of timely action and because of <i>one</i> speech by an SEC official four years ago.<p>The SEC is basically trying to argue that the speech was personal opinion (and the speech said that ETH <i>was not a security</i>), but Ripple alleges that the speech, though perhaps not an official statement, was much more than a personal opinion. We now know the SEC lawyers were involved in writing the speech, which is making life difficult for the SEC. This is also why the SEC is being far more careful now and is saying only BTC is not a security, but that ship may have sailed.<p>It&#x27;s being called the Crypto Trial of the Century. A win for Ripple on the SEC&#x27;s slip-up could mean the SEC is powerless to intervene in most crypto markets. A win for the SEC would result in mass regulation.
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12amxn12almost 3 years ago
Bitcoin is a tool first, and a commodity second. I never &quot;hold&quot; bitcoin, or if I do is for an extremely short while. I&#x27;ve used it plenty of times for almost a decade in this fashion:<p>1. Get paid in BTC for a service or a product (or buy BTC with offshore money) 2. Sell to someone for an agreed on price 3. Get cash&#x2F;local currency&#x2F;supplies&#x2F;whatever<p>Two thoughts:<p>- Lower hype on bitcoin is a good thing for me, as it will bring less attention to it from goverments. I just need a critical mass of people there are enough buyers&#x2F;sellers&#x2F;miners.<p>- The two things that worry me are: governance of the project, and the fact that bitcoin mining traffic can be detected (somewhat like torrents). So, if govts want, they could force the ISPs to check for traffic that may indicate mining, raid, and eventually kill all mining operations (China probably will). Most likely, some countries will be more lax on that.
riskneutralalmost 3 years ago
Way to fuel the Bitcoin maximalist, Gensler. Totally arbitrary.
CynicusRexalmost 3 years ago
That&#x27;s like saying the Christian god is the true god, whereas in fact they&#x27;re all equal nonsense.
smabiealmost 3 years ago
Feels like if BTC is a commodity, then BCH and LTC clearly are as well, no?
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vmoorealmost 3 years ago
Finance newbie here, but what is a &#x27;security&#x27;? I looked it up, but can&#x27;t grok it despite people&#x27;s best attempt to describe it. All the articles can&#x27;t sum it up in an ELI5 way. What&#x27;s the TL;DR way of describing a security, and how does BTC fare in this? Is BTC a security?
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Cobragrialmost 3 years ago
Commodities have no capped supply and fungible. GRIN resembles to commodity with its emmission model and fungibility feature as well.
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hajilealmost 3 years ago
It&#x27;s always nice to know that such important things are never left in the hands of the ignorant masses and are instead left to the rich aristocracy who know what is best for lesser men.
knicholesalmost 3 years ago
Does anyone know how this affects taxes?
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nathiasalmost 3 years ago
Pretty idiotic that they can&#x27;t make new categories for new tech and have to shoehorn it into the old.
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Havocalmost 3 years ago
That seems quite arbitrary
colesantiagoalmost 3 years ago
SEC Chair != SEC<p>This is just equivalent to &#x27;employers opinions does not reflect my own&#x27;
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daniel-cussenalmost 3 years ago
I agree with this. I have said it&#x27;s the only crypto worth participating in because it&#x27;s the only crypto that originated for idealistic reasons.<p>In that capacity it is similar to gold, which in the Golden Age (something everybody talked about in Antiquity and I decided to believe, but I&#x27;ve never encountered anybody else believing in) was openly swapped around as little inventions (you can make all kinds of shit with gold, it&#x27;s a miracle material, lubricant, any precision, single isotope, list goes on endlessly) and gifts, but then some assholes decided to start hoarding it and enslaving people to mine it, charging interest using it, weigh one gold gift against another saying they balance out, use it to pay for wars to amass more gold. And it became something we just hoard underground. In other cultures it&#x27;s this stuff, like Kechwa (Inca) it was about worshipping the sun and sure enough it basically is the sweat from the sun because it only is created by stars in supernovas. Idealistic in its origin.<p>Except in satellites, in satellites it&#x27;s used for all kinds of shit, the foil for reentry (silver and gold, but only the gold resisted reentry), as lubricant, for welding (4:1 gold to tin), for the electronics of course, as a conductor in some cases so wire, heat foil. And medicine, so dentistry a huge amount but also implants, gold-titanium alloys. And injections for rheumatism in a chemical composition. And anything that must not rust, the go-to is gold.<p>So all the other coins? They&#x27;re shitcoins. There is only Bitcoin, everyone else just wanted to get rich quick. Satoshi never cashed out, I divine he committed suicide in 2015 embarrassed not by its success but in how much he owned by being the first to mine it. It was the only crypto that didn&#x27;t get pre-mined, but he didn&#x27;t get other people on board fast enough to avoid owning tons of it. So Lycurgus, too, he made the laws of Sparta so they would never be slaves in response to the end of the Golden Age and the constant threat of conquest--basically successful--but was embarrassed of benefitting by then becoming king, so he said &quot;don&#x27;t change the laws til I return&quot; and left, and starved himself to die. And many say he never existed. Just like many say Satoshi never existed.
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jeffbeealmost 3 years ago
This interpretation seems to require a willful misrepresentation of what the man said. He said it <i>is</i> a speculative asset, is has the basic properties of a security, and people other than himself have labeled it a commodity.
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TimPCalmost 3 years ago
This is huge. Essentially if they find anyone sold crypto to unaccredited investors they would be engaging in illegal sales of a security. This may lead to lawsuits where crypto sellers find they are on the hook for the losses of people they illegally sold to. It may also lead to jail time for a substantial portion of the crypto community.
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