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Giving a shit as a service

603 pointsby pimterryalmost 3 years ago

41 comments

seanhunteralmost 3 years ago
One of the interesting aspects of giving a shit is that it will lead sometimes to you doing things which are not in your short-term selfish narrowly-defined &quot;best interest&quot; but because you give a shit you&#x27;ll do it anyway. Some of these lead to long-term value that is very significant but you can&#x27;t know at the time.<p>I was once asked by a client (bank) to take a call with one of _their_ clients (a pretty important hedge fund). I did this as a courtesy even though I thought our product wasn&#x27;t appropriate for the hedge fund. Anyhow I get on the call and it&#x27;s the COO, the Chief Investment Officer, the CTO and a couple of other _very_ important people at this big fund. (ie a much more senior call than I really expected). Anyway, because I give a shit, I told them our product wouldn&#x27;t really be right for them and explained why. They thanked me and I heard nothing more of it.<p>Until a couple of years later where I offered a job out of the blue because one of the people on the call had been impressed by how I had dealt with it, and by pure coincidence his partner was a recruiter who was tasked with headhunting for a CTO role and he said &quot;hey you should check this guy out&quot;.
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msencenbalmost 3 years ago
Everyone saying it doesn&#x27;t scale is missing the point.<p>Scaling is a winner-take-all, venture capital mindset. The article is about service businesses, which do not need to hit web scale! We are talking about services here not your web startup.<p>Even beyond services, giving a shit and building saas is not impossible. In fact, I wish more tech companies started small and stayed small. I absolutely want to run a digital small business and I want to give a shit, it makes the building feel purposeful instead of this product-led growth at all costs bullshit.<p>I hope we see a software middle class grow in the next decade. Middle class tech companies are going to be coming from the bootstrapper + founder focused funds (TinySeed &#x2F; Calm) and they are going to have a distinct advantage if they understand their strategy&#x2F;context in their chosen verticals.
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fleddralmost 3 years ago
Giving a shit has many personal benefits that go beyond the question of financial sustainability.<p>Career-wise, if you give a shit about your work and your colleagues this does add up to a reputation. When you do things &quot;right&quot;, don&#x27;t gossip or backstab, act with integrity and honesty, people notice. You&#x27;ll be seen as trustworthy, a pillar to fall back on.<p>The thing is though, the person screwing everybody over and job hopping before the damage becomes visible may actually get more out of their career, financially. It&#x27;s a rather philosophical question as to which character type you want to be.<p>Another reward of giving a shit is the gratitude people show, because it has become a rare behavior it seems.<p>For example, I&#x27;m running a web community (photography), non-profit, as a hobby. One particular user, an old Australian guy, is very much not tech savvy and recently I spent two nights in a row to get him onboarded again. He struggles with the simplest things but it&#x27;s all good now.<p>To a calculating mind, this is a ridiculous investment of scarce free time with virtually no gain. The last part is where that mind couldn&#x27;t be more wrong.<p>The man was almost in tears from gratitude. He&#x27;s alone, struggles and nobody bothers to explain him anything, not even his family, most of which live far away. He got helped, by somebody he never met, for no particular reason but giving a shit.<p>I will remember that gratitude a decade from now. By comparison, a stranger could now send me 10K and it would mean absolutely nothing to me. I don&#x27;t need it, I have my stuff. You can&#x27;t buy deep and memorable human connections and moments, they are by definition a result of giving a shit.<p>Look at how little it takes and how giant the impact is. A company put genuine effort into a customer&#x27;s table needs, and here we are.
jfengelalmost 3 years ago
Are you saying I can outsource my shit-giving activities?<p>Sign me up. I&#x27;ve been unable to give a shit for quite some time. I wish I could give a shit, but the world has become a pretty ugly place, in large part because of deliberate attempts to demoralize those who give a shit.<p>You see it all over the place on social media. People do a weak-ass form of shit-giving in the form of &quot;raising awareness&quot;, the least conceivable level of effort for something you wish you could give a shit about, but don&#x27;t actually give a shit.<p>Of course even if somebody tried to GaSaaS, the space would promptly fill with people giving as few shits as possible for as much money as possible. Too many major charities do that: they&#x27;ll take your money and spend it mostly on advertising for other people to give their money, too, and very little on the things you&#x27;d expect if they actually gave a shit.<p>I know TFA is more about the business sense of giving a shit, but I&#x27;d love to see somebody able to give a shit in a larger sense. Unfortunately, I can&#x27;t give a shit because it seems nobody gives a shit any more -- except the people who are passionately devoted to making sure other people feel miserable instead.
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giarcalmost 3 years ago
When selling my last house, I invited 3-4 local realtors for appointments. 3 showed up with some printed comps and gave me a general idea of list price right then. The last showed up, walked through the house, asked about upgrades I had made etc etc then said &quot;Let&#x27;s meet again in a few days when I&#x27;ve had a chance to accurately price your place.&quot; He got the sale.
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duxupalmost 3 years ago
I remember my first &quot;real&quot; job was at a company in a niche market who had a couple competitors.<p>We were told often by sales and the executives that they were often told that despite our product being more expensive they bought our equipment because:<p>&quot;When we call your tech support guys you answer, and your support team seems to actually care about fixing the problem in a way that it doesn&#x27;t happen again.&quot;<p>That tech support team would stay together as a team through a couple acquisitions (and being acquired) for nearly 20 years (of my time at least) supporting new products and so on, until finally as always happens with tech support they were eventually devalued by the company enough that one final sale of the company happened and everyone was laid off.<p>Years later I met up with some of the product engineers (who survived the last acquisition) told me &quot;We still talk about how that team did it the right way. The team we have now is three times as big and handles fewer tickets and is horrible at their job.&quot;<p>I always thought that team should have been sold as a group to someone who cared but really nobody values good tech support teams ... not for long.<p>Now I work at a small software shop where we just keep picking up customers based on word of mouth ... because someone told them &quot;these guys can deliver and care&quot;.
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bob1029almost 3 years ago
So far the consensus seems to be that GaSaaS doesn&#x27;t scale.<p>I would like to protest this sentiment.<p>With technology, you can empower non-wizards to give substantially more of a shit than they otherwise would be able to.<p>The danger lies in the specific nature of those technological implementations and the engagement models applied to their usage. Today, our models look something like &quot;fuck your dopamine loop as hard and fast as possible without any subsequent regard for anything at all&quot;
10x-devalmost 3 years ago
This is my biggest issue with working at FAANG (been at 2). Lots of people just don&#x27;t give a shit. To paraphrase the Silicon Valley show: &quot;you got your RSUs now fuck off for 4 years&quot;. I can&#x27;t fault people for making the best financial decision for them, but for crying out loud, give a shit about the code. Write the unit test. Write the docs to explain the architecture. Refactor the code while you&#x27;re editing that file. Think about class and method names. Give a shit.
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teucrisalmost 3 years ago
You pay premium to get the GaS package. Most people think that’s because you’re paying them to care, but that’s not it at all. You cannot pay someone to care.<p>You’re paying for the rare access to people who get genuine satisfaction of doing something well. The fact that it is a precious commodity saddens me. I think a lack of decent financial security keeps people from G’ing an S.
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tobinharrisalmost 3 years ago
I run a mobile app agency like you and we do pretty well selling GaSaaS.<p>I&#x27;m a developer but have studied sales quite a lot over the last 10 years. The most important thing I learned is to find clients that fit you really well when it comes to skills, culture and budget.<p>To do this you have to give a shit and not be afraid to ask potentially off-putting questions. Stuff like:<p>&quot;Are you sure you want to build this app, your business case doesn&#x27;t add up so why bother?&quot;<p>&quot;Can you demonstrate you&#x27;re in this for the long haul? There&#x27;s no joy in building an app that fails, which is what happens if you don&#x27;t budget to iterate your app.&quot;<p>&quot;How come you don&#x27;t hire freelancers or contractors, it will cost you less?&quot;<p>Obviously I ask nicer questions too, but these are good &quot;give a shit enough to risk losing the sale&quot; kind of questions.
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dmjealmost 3 years ago
Why I work with museums. I&#x27;ll never be rich but they&#x27;re full of amazing people who truly give a shit about what they do. The WankerCoefficient is very low - 12 years in and the number of tosser clients I&#x27;ve had to deal with can be counted on one hand.<p>As a consequence of this, we deliver good work - highly focused on client needs, bespoke, and at high quality. We&#x27;ve got a name for it and have never done anything apart from rely on word of mouth for new work.<p>It&#x27;s good work and I love it :-)
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yborisalmost 3 years ago
Reminds me of <i>Shop Class as Soulcraft: An Inquiry into the Value of Work</i> - where the author repairs broken motorcycles, and sometimes ends up spending more time than expected (without charging extra to the client) because he cared. A lovely book that is worth a read.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0143117467" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Shop-Class-Soulcraft-Inquiry-Value&#x2F;dp...</a>
nonrandomstringalmost 3 years ago
Some fancy words, for where &quot;shitgiving&quot; doesn&#x27;t quite fit:<p>Meta-cognition. Mentalisation. Intersubjectivity.<p>When a sentient being picks up the (apparent) communications of another being, instead of taking these &#x27;noises&#x27; on face value as signals requiring action&#x2F;process, they perceive <i>another</i>. Another being, like them, with thoughts and feelings, that they &quot;hold in mind&quot;. These are first steps towards empathy&#x2F;sympathy.<p>The distancing function of technology is very efficient at suppressing this. What we do in a purely protocol&#x2F;process based world made only of responses, targets, KPIs is forget meta-cognition. It&#x27;s not that people are being &quot;evil&quot; [1] but that quality frameworks based only on measuring things don&#x27;t accommodate it.<p>[1] Cold Evil: Technology and Modern Ethics - Andrew Kimbrell
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prependalmost 3 years ago
I now think all conference room tables should be superellipses. It’s much more usable space.
josefrescoalmost 3 years ago
Sometimes &quot;giving a shit&quot; can talk you right out of a job.<p>You: I&#x27;d love to work with you but I need to know X,Y,Z and we need a couple more meetings. I want to fully understand your project and your goals before committing to price.<p>Someone else: I can do it for $<p>Some people pick (thoughtful &amp; detailed) you, and some will pick (easy and vague) someone else - it really depends on their personality.<p>Some business owners simply want to write a check. Others want to be intimately involved - the skill is determining which is sitting in front of you.
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megrafalmost 3 years ago
It&#x27;s a real great message, yes, they gave a shit. They gave a shit because the author likely paid &gt;10,000 CAD. Yes, ten thousand Canadian dollars. Or $7692 USD. This is significant to me because I feel like for a table (conference room or not!) anyone asking for that type of price point _should_ give a shit. I&#x27;m all for nice furniture (in fact, I&#x27;ve built some) – but I&#x27;d say some of the cape-wearing folks who really care are often doing so behind the scenes, or, if you&#x27;re lucky: in a position at a company (or their own company) who really has pride in what they&#x27;re doing.<p>I think the author found a company who gives a shit, but I&#x27;d also like to point to other makers who give a shit without the five-figure price point.<p>Here&#x27;s a small list: - <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;woodgears.ca" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;woodgears.ca</a> (you will be making these items yourself! Plans are ~15 USD) - Dave Moore (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;user&#x2F;dpmbn8" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;user&#x2F;dpmbn8</a>) – That one support agent who didn&#x27;t give up :)
walrus01almost 3 years ago
The difference in quality and customer service of a <i>small</i> local&#x2F;regional ISP that truly does give a shit vs a giant nationwide-scale ISP can be amazing.<p><i>If</i> the small ISP has a sufficient amount of network engineering knowledge and acumen to build small-scale things at very high quality.<p>More along the lines of the custom wood business referenced in the original post, I am familiar with a few small welding&#x2F;steel fabrication and custom carbon fiber CNC cutting shops in the metro Vancouver area that also <i>give a shit</i>.<p>They aren&#x27;t trying to scale up to some huge size or go for economies of scale, they are perfectly content to serve a mid sized local market with not cheap, high quality products.
jrd259almost 3 years ago
This is precisely why Amazon emphasizes Customer Obsession (giving a shit about customers) and Ownership (giving shit about your problems other people in the org have). I don&#x27;t love <i>everything</i> about Amazon, I sure do like these two.
gumbyalmost 3 years ago
We don&#x27;t put our values on our web site but we do talk about them internally a lot and I have them listed on a small piece of paper glued to my laptop next to the trackpad. #1 is &quot;Integrity&quot;. You cannot convince anyone you have integrity by telling them anything, they can only come to believe it by seeing how you act <i>over time</i>.<p>And if we don&#x27;t have integrity what does it matter what the other values are?
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c0l0almost 3 years ago
This - the people involved actually giving a shit - is exactly why FOSS projects&#x27; volunteer support (on IRC, for example) regularly trumps the crud experience you get from huge, established, and deep-pocketed vendors of alternative products that are astonishingly expensive. Ironically, often the most extreme in the &quot;support&quot; contract department.
openfuturealmost 3 years ago
I am doing the somewhat opposite, I am starting a company where I will take shit as a service (and compost it).
unbalancedevhalmost 3 years ago
This concept is also relevant when applying for a job. At one of my previous jobs, I asked my boss what about the interview convinced him to give me an offer. He said it was because I asked so many questions, and he hardly had a chance to ask any that he&#x27;d prepared.
mikkergpalmost 3 years ago
It makes me think about the research[1] that suggests people pick their doctors based on empathy over competence, but it&#x27;s really hard to evaluate competence if you don&#x27;t think the person is listening to you. Maybe you can see by some objective measure if they rate highly, but if the communication is bad, how can you be sure if what you are buying is what they are selling, even if what they&#x27;re selling is the best ev4r.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;greatergood.berkeley.edu&#x2F;article&#x2F;item&#x2F;are_empathic_doctors_seen_as_more_competent" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;greatergood.berkeley.edu&#x2F;article&#x2F;item&#x2F;are_empathic_d...</a>
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CoolGuyStevealmost 3 years ago
While it&#x27;s important to give a shit when dealing with customers, I wonder how useful &quot;giving a shit&quot; is when it comes to things like picking a conference table.<p>Was that really the best use of this CEOs time? Is the company that much better off because of their fancy table?<p>This adventure seems incredibly decadent and pointless to me. It&#x27;s just a fucking table, focus on what matters.
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IIAOPSWalmost 3 years ago
I read the headline and was ready to hand over cash, because I&#x27;ve been running out of my own shits to give lately.
corrralalmost 3 years ago
Tangential, but IMO the super-power rich people have at achieving personal goals (this principle also applies to business goals, but let&#x27;s set that aside) is largely due to being able to pay (to them) pocket change to make others do their giving-a-shit for them.<p>How many shits do you have to give to stay fit as a poor person? Lots. Many shits must be given. You must be a shit-giving machine. 100% of shits given toward your goal must come from you.<p>How many shits do you have to give to stay fit as a rich person? Let&#x27;s see... you&#x27;re paying an amount of money that&#x27;s meaningless to you to have someone else give a shit about your meals, both making sure that your diet is healthy and balanced <i>and</i> that it&#x27;s tasty and appealing to minimize the shit-giving you need to stick with it... and someone else give a shit about your work-outs... and someone else to give a shit about your schedule to make sure that stuff fits in... gee, look at that, you hardly have to give any shits at all, personally!
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ChrisMarshallNYalmost 3 years ago
<i>&gt; So, I suppose the moral of the story is: find yourself work you can give a shit about. And work with people who give a shit. It’ll make shit a lot more pleasant – I guarantee it.</i><p>I&#x27;m doing this now. No one believes that it&#x27;s worth paying for, which is a bit sad, but I&#x27;m OK with that.
m_stalmost 3 years ago
Great post. It could be &#x27;care&#x27;, I call that &#x27;Berufsstolz&#x27; in German. Like professional pride. Not everyone has it, but those that do, they sure are more successful inside and outside the company and are (in general) a pleasure to work with.
iandanforthalmost 3 years ago
I would also have accepted &#x27;craftsmanship&#x27; or &#x27;professionalism&#x27;.
btbuildemalmost 3 years ago
Giving a shit doesn&#x27;t scale. In a society obsessed with growth, it&#x27;s not a sustainable thing.<p>Draw what conclusions you will. I would gladly give up this incessant &quot;growth&quot; for quality.
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shadycuzalmost 3 years ago
If you use Jenkins... I give a shit.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;DontShaveTheYak&#x2F;jenkins-std-lib" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;DontShaveTheYak&#x2F;jenkins-std-lib</a><p>Hit me up. I will help with your pipelines.
gala8yalmost 3 years ago
Interestingly enough, psychotherapy can be looked at as a &#x27;giving a s** as a service&#x27;, where no one else gives a s**. Which is somehow sad state of affairs.
sheepyblokealmost 3 years ago
People are arguing that GaS doesn&#x27;t scale, but for larger companies, you have to GaS. Take Amazon&#x27;s easy and quick return policy. They GaS for this interaction, making it a huge reason why you&#x27;d want to buy from Amazon. On the other hand, take Google&#x27;s different services. Because they didn&#x27;t GaS about the longevity of their services, they now have a graveyard of different services they killed and a lot of people who won&#x27;t invest in the Google ecosystem because of it. Other examples of not GaS: Shopify support, Google support, Amazon and warehouse workers.<p>TLDR: You have to GaS as you scale because otherwise people will start discounting you or your product as not trustworthy or worth the frustration.
Kuinoxalmost 3 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand,what offer your service that Facebook don&#x27;t already offer for free?
HeavyStormalmost 3 years ago
That&#x27;s called Therapy. You pay someone so he&#x2F;she cares about you.
drduncealmost 3 years ago
I wish there was a job board that showed only jobs worthy of giving a shit
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t_mannalmost 3 years ago
Just wondering - I guess &quot;giving shit&quot; should be sufficiently well defined that we could create a training set for a GPT-3-like pre-trained language model.
s1k3salmost 3 years ago
Nice anecdote. Never applies in practice, but it&#x27;s good to dream about it.
civilizedalmost 3 years ago
Providing a service that&#x27;s actually a service... as a service.
jsiaajdsdaaalmost 3 years ago
My newest startup idea is to devise a continuous series of tests meant to gauge how much of a shit interview candidates <i>and</i> companies give a shit.<p>It is like leetcode meets tinder meets GaSaaS.
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NoGravitasalmost 3 years ago
Ah, but you see, giving a shit doesn&#x27;t scale. It&#x27;s certainly not web-scale, anyway.