TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Two decades of Alzheimer’s research was based on deliberate fraud

257 pointsby manesiozalmost 3 years ago

17 comments

macintuxalmost 3 years ago
Two days ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32183302" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32183302</a><p>A month ago: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31828509" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31828509</a>
评论 #32213973 未加载
atombenderalmost 3 years ago
I recommend reading the comments on AlzForum [1]. From the discussions, it sounds like this fraud is significant in terms of Dr. Sylvain Lesné&#x27;s work, but that the news has been vastly blown out of proportion.<p>These comments are written by real Alzheimer&#x27;s researchers. They all disagree with the notion that Lesné&#x27;s papers have been important to the field, and therefore undermine the idea that this has any bearing on &quot;two decades of Alzheimer&#x27;s research&quot;. (Karen Ashe, co-author of the main paper referenced here, also stops by the thread.)<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alzforum.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;community-news&#x2F;sylvain-lesne-who-found-av56-accused-image-manipulation" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.alzforum.org&#x2F;news&#x2F;community-news&#x2F;sylvain-lesne-w...</a>
评论 #32213631 未加载
评论 #32214417 未加载
评论 #32213576 未加载
评论 #32213511 未加载
atombenderalmost 3 years ago
Can we replace the link with the original Daily Kos article [1] that this is a copy-paste of? I have no idea what wallstreetpro.com is, but it looks like blog spam.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailykos.com&#x2F;stories&#x2F;2022&#x2F;7&#x2F;22&#x2F;2111914&#x2F;-Two-decades-of-Alzheimer-s-research-may-be-based-on-deliberate-fraud-that-has-cost-millions-of-lives" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.dailykos.com&#x2F;stories&#x2F;2022&#x2F;7&#x2F;22&#x2F;2111914&#x2F;-Two-deca...</a>
评论 #32213972 未加载
pigtailgirlalmost 3 years ago
-- the article in science a couple of days ago is a bit more comprehensive however the submission is easier for quick digesting --<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;potential-fabricatio...</a>
评论 #32213262 未加载
评论 #32213206 未加载
formerly_provenalmost 3 years ago
The bit at the end about the NIH continuing to allocate funds to the exposed researchers... with the program director being one of the authors of the exposed paper - that stings. But it also shows how deep corruption and &quot;networking&quot; runs in places like this.
nonrandomstringalmost 3 years ago
This is a tragedy.<p>Academia and research needs a new broom. Presently incentives are peverse. Impact factors, publisher corruption, grant applications and funding are a blight on science.
评论 #32213305 未加载
评论 #32213368 未加载
photochemsynalmost 3 years ago
This is very similar to another scientific fraud case from two decades ago, involving Bell Labs and Jan Hendrik Schön, and a series of major papers published in Nature and Science from 1998-2002, and described in an excellent book, Plastic Fantastic: How the Biggest Fraud in Physics Shook the Scientific World by Eugenie Samuel Reich.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;physicstoday.scitation.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;full&#x2F;10.1063&#x2F;1.3248480" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;physicstoday.scitation.org&#x2F;doi&#x2F;full&#x2F;10.1063&#x2F;1.324848...</a><p>A key point, from the above review, that I think explains a lot of this behavior:<p>&gt; &quot;Reich points out that fraudsters like Schön could get credit for “first discovery” if, before they are caught, their false claims are confirmed by others on the basis of genuine data.&quot;<p>It did shake up the field of organic semiconductor device research in physics by increasing scrutiny and changing some requirements (for example, electron microscope imagery of claimed devices is now a requirement for publication). However, as the top post at present notes, the incentives are backwards in academic science these days, and the role of funding organizations and high-profile journals is as problematic as that of the originating fraudsters.<p>Maybe this instance of fraud will do the same for the biomedical field, by forcing researchers to release their raw data and full-resolution images as a condition of publication, although that would require a major shift in behavior in today&#x27;s patent-driven startup-centered heavily-corporatized biomedical research world.<p>Personally, I&#x27;ll note that during the years I worked in academia, of the three PIs I worked with, I discovered two engaging in fraudulent research to greater or lesser extent. The main differences between them and the one who wasn&#x27;t were (1) lab notebook discipline and recording and storing data securely, (2) in-house replication was required, (3) no toleration for BS and shady behavior. The others broke all those rules. (Unfortunately I picked the wrong PI to work with, and ended up leaving academia in a fit of contemptuous disgust.)<p>A good rule of thumb: If some research claim hasn&#x27;t been replicated, and if the data and methods aren&#x27;t transparently available, then it&#x27;s as likely to be fraudulent garbage as not, and it&#x27;s not worthy of further examination.
评论 #32213593 未加载
chkialmost 3 years ago
If what is presented in this article is actually true that would be a systemic failure of epic proportions, right? Not just in this concrete case but don&#x27;t these fundamental papers get reproduced before everybody takes them for granted and pours in enormous amounts of research grants believing in them? Is this article an exaggeration?
评论 #32213512 未加载
bencollier49almost 3 years ago
I&#x27;d like to know whether the police have ever been brought in for a scenario like this. It may not seem as clear cut as regular financial fraud, but the end goal is to further one&#x27;s career, which results in monetary gain. As such, this does seem to fall within most countries&#x27; definition of fraud. For example, from the UK:<p>Fraud by false representation<p>(1) A person is in breach of this section if he—<p>(a) dishonestly makes a false representation, and<p>(b) intends, by making the representation—<p>(i) to make a gain for himself or another
kyouensalmost 3 years ago
In this conversation, it’s important to distinguish <i>science itself</i> (which, along with facts, are already under attack in our politics) from failings of the <i>research industry</i>.
verisimialmost 3 years ago
Most interesting to me, is how if you get the model wrong, thousands of scientists will use it anyway, billions will be spent, but no one challenges it! Amazing.<p>It really lays open how easy it is to mislead everyone. All these siloed scientists won&#x27;t have a clue anything is wrong. This is how conspiracies would work... if there is advantage to someone somewhere and they have the means to alter the model in their favour, why wouldn&#x27;t they?
onionisafruitalmost 3 years ago
The linked article is sensationalized an disingenuously mixes the author&#x27;s opinion with straight reporting on the <i>Science</i> article[0] previously discussed here[1]. <i>Science</i> never suggests that anybody other than Lesné was involved in falsifying results, and even then it is careful to not accuse him of deliberate fraud. Neither article suggests who the second scientist referenced in the headline may be.<p>I suspect there was deliberate fraud, but this article doesn&#x27;t provide any more evidence of that than previous articles.<p>&gt; Since that 2006 publication, the presence or absence of this specific amyloid has often been treated as diagnostic of Alzheimer’s. Meaning that patients who did die from Alzheimer’s may have been misdiagnosed as having something else. Those whose dementia came from other causes may have falsely been dragged under the Alzheimer’s umbrella.<p>I think the author is confused about the controversy he is reporting on. Nobody is suggesting that there aren&#x27;t elevated levels of Aβ in Alzheimer&#x27;s brains. The controversy is only about the presence of Aβ<i>56, and as far as I know Aβ</i>56 was never used to diagnose Alzheimer&#x27;s disease. It should also be noted that this is only relevant to postmortem diagnosis, so even if they were testing for Aβ*56 it wouldn&#x27;t have affected the diagnosis of living patients.<p>At the bottom of the article is a note, &quot;Article written by Mark Sumner via Daily Kos&quot;. This explains a lot. Daily Kos is a site that got its start with sensationalized political articles. Now they&#x27;ve apparently expanded to subjects where they can do more damage.<p>---<p>As I post the comment, the title of the linked article is: &quot;Two decades of Alzheimer’s research was based on deliberate fraud by 2 scientists that has cost billions of dollars and millions of lives&quot;<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;potential-fabrication-research-images-threatens-key-theory-alzheimers-disease" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.science.org&#x2F;content&#x2F;article&#x2F;potential-fabricatio...</a> [1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32183302" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32183302</a>
apialmost 3 years ago
The most likely motive for this kind of fraud at this level is that the researchers “know” their hypothesis is correct and are just fixing some “mistakes” in the data.<p>People do this all the time. In fact I’d say it’s the usual reaction when confronted with data contradicting one’s beliefs.<p>Scientists are supposed to learn to go past that but I wonder how many actually do, especially when there is both social and economic pressure to conform to a school of thought.
评论 #32213201 未加载
throwaway6734almost 3 years ago
This should result in a very long jail sentence and complete banishment from society
ncmncmalmost 3 years ago
By far the most effective preventer of dementia appears to be vaccinations, with 40% effect size. It doesn&#x27;t seem to matter what against. Second might be antivirals against herpes.<p>These people need to be formally immediately banned from any NIH activity, and criminally charged. We have known for years that their crap work was useless.
评论 #32214091 未加载
w-malmost 3 years ago
This Twitter thread highlights that this is a hyperbole&#x2F;misinformation: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;samuel_marsh&#x2F;status&#x2F;1550883405105168386" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;twitter.com&#x2F;samuel_marsh&#x2F;status&#x2F;1550883405105168386</a><p>„I sincerely doubt that the absence of this particular paper and AB*56 from historical scientific record would have significantly changed the last 20 years of AD drug development. That is because there is strong genetic and other evidence for the role of amyloid in disease.“
评论 #32213245 未加载
lettergramalmost 3 years ago
Welcome to science folks. Having worked a decade around a campus regularly sitting in on presentations (and being in research myself) I can say I believe 80% of science wrong AND not reproducible, 10% being an outright fraud (10% being legit).<p>Highly recommend this book to discuss why: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Rigor-Mortis-Science-Worthless-Billions&#x2F;dp&#x2F;0465097901" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.amazon.com&#x2F;Rigor-Mortis-Science-Worthless-Billio...</a><p>It all comes down to incentives.<p>(1) As a researcher you lose funding m if you don’t produce<p>(2) funds aren’t allocated to reproduce<p>(3) Researchers who publish will block research that disagrees with their work (as they’re also reviewers) (will lose future funding &#x2F; have more competition)<p>(4) Researchers wont rescind their work if later findings warrant it (no incentive to)<p>(5) N numbers are way too low (higher N is more money)
评论 #32213498 未加载
评论 #32213325 未加载
评论 #32213600 未加载
评论 #32213628 未加载
评论 #32213711 未加载
评论 #32213354 未加载
评论 #32213151 未加载
评论 #32213474 未加载
评论 #32213595 未加载
评论 #32213575 未加载
评论 #32213362 未加载
评论 #32213409 未加载
评论 #32213279 未加载
评论 #32213531 未加载
评论 #32213208 未加载
评论 #32213850 未加载
评论 #32213255 未加载
评论 #32213525 未加载
评论 #32213604 未加载
评论 #32213678 未加载
评论 #32213837 未加载
评论 #32213301 未加载
评论 #32213594 未加载