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American Airlines agrees to purchase Boom Supersonic Overture aircraft

403 pointsby spatulonalmost 3 years ago

40 comments

galgotalmost 3 years ago
So they went from scaled down Concorde configuration :<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.airway.com.br&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2020&#x2F;10&#x2F;Boom_Overure.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.airway.com.br&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;2020&#x2F;10&#x2F;Boom_Ov...</a><p>to a very scaled down Boeing 2707-300 configuration :<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Boeing_2707" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Boeing_2707</a><p>(that tiny fin tho...). While reducing cruise speed to 1.7 mach. I see no visible changes to deal with the sonic booms problem. So operation would be like Concorde I suppose, subsonic (or hi-subsonic) over land and Supersonic over ocean only. Unless the super-rich manage the regulation to change.<p>EDIT : ah yes :) &quot;2x FASTER OVER WATER&quot; and &quot;20% FASTER OVER LAND&quot;...<p>Also : Maybe good to remember that 18 airlines had once placed orders for Concorde, with only the 2 national carriers flying it in service eventually. And that The Boeing 2707 was ordered by 27 airlines before the program being canceled…
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alphabettingalmost 3 years ago
<i>Overture is being designed to carry 65 to 80 passengers at Mach 1.7 over water — or twice the speed of today’s fastest commercial aircraft — with a range of 4,250 nautical miles. Optimized for speed, safety and sustainability, Overture is also being designed to fly more than 600 routes around the world in as little as half the time. Flying from Miami to London in just under five hours and Los Angeles to Honolulu in three hours are among the many possibilities.</i><p>Probably will be very expensive but it&#x27;s exciting for future possibilities
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JCM9almost 3 years ago
Strong FOMO settling in. Premium transatlantic routes routes like NYC-LHR are super important to the bottom line of the big legacy carriers. If one airline has supersonic and others don’t that could be a huge blow to the others.<p>Of course things didn’t work out that way with Concorde, which was not commercially successful and more of a spectacle than something founded in business fundamentals. But if Boom can make supersonic passenger travel economics work out it would certainly be hugely disruptive.
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bragralmost 3 years ago
&gt;American has paid a non-refundable deposit on the initial 20 aircraft.<p>I guess that&#x27;s not nothing given how these sorts of contracts usually give the big name brand company lots of outs if the speculative company goes bust, but by bragging about it without specifying the amount, I&#x27;m guessing it&#x27;s a low amount.
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flerchinalmost 3 years ago
Not a lot to go on here. Boom projects first flight in 2026 for the Overture. They seem to be fairly close to first flight with their XB-1, but it has not flown yet. I congratulate them on getting funding, but all the hard parts are ahead.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Boom_XB-1" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Boom_XB-1</a>
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plegreslalmost 3 years ago
Lots of airlines also preordered Concorde: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Concorde#Sales_efforts" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Concorde#Sales_efforts</a>
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danvoellalmost 3 years ago
Thought it was an acquisition. Maybe change headline to “purchase aircraft from”
namirezalmost 3 years ago
I was speaking with one the top managers of Airbus and asked him about Boom Supersonic and the Overture. He was skeptical of the idea mostly because of fuel consumption. He said based on their research, the future of flight is slower not faster. Open fan, hydrogen, and electrical planes all point to a slower and more efficient aviation.
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panick21_almost 3 years ago
Mhh, whenever I heard about them, I looking at their current successes. Did they not promise to launch a sub-scale supersonic plane to test out everything? It has still not flown unless I have missed something.<p>So why should I trust that their main airliner is anywhere even close to on-time.
sktrdiealmost 3 years ago
Do we really need to go somewhere so quickly? There needs to be a line somewhere where &quot;getting to the other side of the planet in less than 12 hours is unsustainable and environmentally horrible&quot;.<p>I&#x27;ve learned to appreciate slow-travel using trains and have been a supporter of electric planes for reaching further places.
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HPsquaredalmost 3 years ago
How is the fuel efficiency of these? They go faster, but I assume they would also fly higher where the air is thinner. Does it cancel out?
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paxysalmost 3 years ago
They agreed to purchase 20 aircraft, not the company itself. The title is a bit ambiguous.
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dsalmost 3 years ago
Meaningless PR bullshit without knowing how much the down payment was.<p>Wouldnt be surprised if American put less than 1m down, which makes this nothing more than a slightly expensive PR campaign.
pinewurstalmost 3 years ago
I&#x27;m reminded of all the airline announcements at the end of the 60s announcing agreed purchases of Concorde and Boeing 2707.
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starwindalmost 3 years ago
From SNL: Start-up airline Boom Supersonic has announced it is going to fly passengers anywhere in the world in four hours or less for just a hundred dollars. So get ready to fly fast and cheap on the only airline named after the sound of an explosion.<p>On a personal note, this company is based out of Centennial Airport (KAPA) which is in my neighborhood
janef0421almost 3 years ago
These planes are utterly pointless. The cost and experience will never be competitive with an overnight flight in business class, and the combination of the ongoing environmental crisis and the low efficiency make fuelling it practically impossible. Functionally equivalent to a Ponzi scheme.
pdx_flyeralmost 3 years ago
Let us not forget that American is $36B in debt after a huge amount of borrowing to get it through COVID.
skelleraalmost 3 years ago
If Boom is able to come out with a new supersonic aircraft, is it possible for a startup to compete with Boeing or Airbus in subsonic aircraft? Either coming up with a new design or another innovation that can compete. Or, are those companies pretty much set with impassable moats?
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uchaalmost 3 years ago
To everyone saying this will not work because it&#x27;s more expensive... jets were more expensive than turboprops. And even though the former use more fuel, we prefer them.<p>The costs of flying an airplane isn&#x27;t proportional to its fuel usage. The faster an aircraft is, the more flights it can perform per day.<p>The carbon emissions impact of flying a gas-guzzling supersonic aircraft aren&#x27;t evident either. Of course, more gas is used per trip but fewer planes need to be manufactured. Since there is no supersonic business jet, it could also make sense for some people who used to fly private for the speed and convenience to reconsider as they may get faster to their destination by flying supersonic.
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bell-cotalmost 3 years ago
From Boom&#x27;s Wikipedia page, they seem to have built <i>zero</i> airplanes which even attempted to take off. That includes their 1&#x2F;3 scale &quot;technology demonstrator&quot; test plane - which was supposed to fly back in 2017.<p>I&#x27;ll guess that American&#x27;s &quot;non-refundable deposit&quot; for the first 20 Boom aircraft was pretty small, and came out of American&#x27;s marketing budget. Or was a negotiating tactic, to help American get a better price from some real aircraft manufacturer.
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nwatsonalmost 3 years ago
This is good news for Greensboro, NC and the NC Triad region. The Boom manufacturing&#x2F;assembly will be done there (at least partially). HondaJet already manufactures there, and there are a number of other aerospace manufacturers in the area. (A lot of embedded and mixed-signal too.)<p>I live in a neighboring town not far from the boutique Triad Semiconductor, which designs digital&#x2F;analog chips and components for many applications, including space.
ChicagoBoy11almost 3 years ago
I&#x27;m surprised by this... I&#x27;d imagine that all of the BS we&#x27;ve added to airport procedures (under the guises of &quot;security&quot;, mostly), would sort of help negate the typical &quot;Concorde&quot; case. In a universe where you still need to show up umpteen hours early for check-in, baggage, security, does having a plane that may cut a fraction of the time of the trip really seem compelling?
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mertnesvatalmost 3 years ago
I wonder what Elon thinks about this. There was one demo from SpaceX about using their rockets for Trips where they can lower down transatlantic flights to 20 30 mins (if you have strong sto-mach) Or Boring Company focused to hyperloops.<p>My humble opinion is that it&#x27;s aviation company without huge innovation or disruption of the industry. More like a fast horse rather than car.
gbronneralmost 3 years ago
Curious how the combination of remote work, videoconferencing, and the really luxurious business class &#x2F; first class on sub-mach aircraft will compare to this.<p>This is slower and smaller than concorde, so we&#x27;ll see if the market really values speed over convenience &#x2F; luxury. Boeing made the opposite decision 20 years ago when they cancelled the sonic cruiser.
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pinky1417almost 3 years ago
As someone who has actually flown on the Concorde, I can say that I&#x27;d gladly endure its tight seats again and empty my wallet in exchange for a shorter flight. Heck, if I had the option between spending $20,000 for a NY-London roundtrip on an Overture (the same price for that route on the Concorde, inflation-adjusted) versus spending $20,000 to charter a long-range private jet (likely a significant underestimate), I&#x27;d go for the Overture in most cases.<p>However, although I&#x27;m rooting for any company that&#x27;s making a sincere (as opposed to fraudulent) attempt at bringing back supersonic travel, the hardest challenges may still be ahead for Boom. The biggest one is the need to find or build a new engine. They&#x27;ve recently redesigned the Overture to use four engines instead of two, which should ease required engine specs, but there&#x27;s no engine that would meet the reliability, noise, fuel consumption, and dimension requirements for a supersonic passenger aircraft.<p>Related to the engines: money. It sounds impressive that boom raised at least $150 million, including $60 million from the US Air Force (which has the added advantage of creating a new customer segment in the military)... until you learn engine development alone would require in the ballpark of $6 BILLION of capital. Aviation history is rife with examples of amazing, innovative aircraft designs that failed because no suitable engine was available.<p>Also, Boom leadership has set some ambitious goals, which makes me a bit skeptical. They plan on using sustainable aviation fuel (SAF). Great! But now they not only need to create a new engine, they need to create a new engine that runs off of a new fuel. Additionally, they&#x27;ve set a goal price of $5,000 for a New York to London roundtrip whereas Concorde would&#x27;ve cost $20,000 for the same route. Heck, I once paid $8,000 for a Boston to Tokyo roundtrip business class flight. Nothing wrong with setting such a goal (and Boom isn&#x27;t even the party that sets route prices) and it&#x27;s OK for marketing claims to be a tad optimistic, but this tests the limits of credibility.<p>Lastly, there&#x27;s the issue of possible routes, which is primarily limited by noise constraints. Unlike the Concorde, which needed afterburners to produce sufficient thrust for takeoff, Boom is going for a no-afterburner design. While this should expand the number of airports the Overture can use since afterburners won’t be blasting the neighborhood, you’re still not going to be able to fly over land. Boom suggest 500 routes are supersonically viable[1], which I’d assume means “pairs of international airports separated mostly by water”. We might be talking about something like 50 actual airports. only a fraction of those routes are not just supersonically viable, but <i>economically</i> viable. Of course, commercial aircraft are designed for particular types of routes. An Embraer ERJ-145 regional jet and the Boeing 787 long-range wide-body jet fly different routes. I’m not expert on this though; maybe 500 routes is plenty for a “total addressable market” in the aviation industry,<p>To bring it all together: my big issues with Boom are, one, engine development and, two, the choice of “hard problems” they decided to take on (specifically, SAF &amp; cheap tickets). My hopes are that the engines are in development, using SAF instead of conventional fuel isn’t a big deal if you design for from the start, and the $5,000 thing is more about saying how low, hypothetically, an airline could price tickets while making money. I’d also like to know what the current status of the state-of-the-art is in quiet supersonic flight. NASA’s quiet supersonic demonstrator, the Lockheed Martin X-59 QuSST, combined with regulators’ desire to decide on supersonic overland travel in 2028, would open up new routes like JFK-LAX for planes meeting noise requirements, should regulators decide to allow it.<p>My hypothesis on Boom’s design choices? Quiet supersonic cruise is still technically challenging and has an uncertain regulatory future, and the political tide may be turning towards greater regulation on fossil fuels. So, by using SAF, Boom ensures that their plan will at least fly in an uncertain regulatory future, even if there’s no overland flight. And, using what they learned developing the Overture, they’ll be in a position to develop a quiet supersonic transport should regulators give the green light.<p>[1] I’d interpret routes to be something like airport-pairs, as in Laguardia-Heathrow would be one route. If you Boom could fly from three airports in the US to or from three airports in Europe, you’d have nine routes (3*3). This article talks a bit about the lack of clarity with Boom’s “route” number: &lt;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;leehamnews.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;04&#x2F;hotr-500-destinations-for-boom-goes-bust&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;leehamnews.com&#x2F;2021&#x2F;06&#x2F;04&#x2F;hotr-500-destinations-for-...</a>&gt;
choletententalmost 3 years ago
To the marketers at Boom, what a terrible name choice for an air plane company fellows.
makzalmost 3 years ago
And how does it align with agenda 2030 and the goal to reduce carbon emissions?
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ZeroGravitasalmost 3 years ago
I wonder if a transatlantic hop on this, with electric flight on either end can work to replace direct transatlantic flights while being faster and greener? Probably all depends on the switchovers.
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HPsquaredalmost 3 years ago
Boom is quite the name for such a speculative business. What&#x27;s next, Bubble Airships Inc? (Luxury cruises, the slow route). They could also have a side business in submarine expeditions.
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Bubble_Pop_22almost 3 years ago
If TSA is abolished or scaled down significantly then this plane is dead on arrival.<p>7hrs London to NYC are more than acceptable, too bad it ends up being 10hrs
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MR4Dalmost 3 years ago
Just in time for the newest wave of de-globalization. I’m betting against this , even if it’s sound on other fronts.
leecarraheralmost 3 years ago
is the contract public? i would like to see what contingency is in place if Boom fails to deliver. Or more to the point, is this more PR to make AA appear to be forward looking, and bolster Boom&#x27;s reputation with a deal that will never come to fruition. It&#x27;s a win-win for investors
TheDudeManalmost 3 years ago
&quot;agreement to purchase up to 20&quot;<p>So, possibly zero. OK, thanks for the update.
malkiaalmost 3 years ago
Recently I&#x27;ve read an article about plane leasing, and it left me realizing that air-companies lease planes from such companies (one of biggest ones are Ireland) rather than buying them.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;03&#x2F;28&#x2F;irish-lessors-have-terminated-all-russian-airline-leases-says-ali.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cnbc.com&#x2F;2022&#x2F;03&#x2F;28&#x2F;irish-lessors-have-terminate...</a><p>&quot;Aircraft Leasing Ireland (ALI), members of which include SMBC Aviation Capital, Avolon, Aircastle and AerCap Holdings, which is the world’s biggest aircraft leasing company, said that all of its members have complied fully with the sanctions.&quot;
onychomysalmost 3 years ago
&gt; American has paid a non-refundable deposit on the initial 20 aircraft.<p>Pretty glad I don&#x27;t own American stock right now, because they&#x27;re apparently led by madmen.
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pdx_flyeralmost 3 years ago
I can&#x27;t roll my eyes enough.
mbg721almost 3 years ago
&quot;We are beginning our ascent, and thank you for flying BOOM!,&quot;
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simonebrunozzialmost 3 years ago
IMHO a better title would have been:<p>&quot;American Airlines to buy 20 Overture aircraft from Boom Supersonic&quot;<p>When reading the original title, I had the impression that the company was going to be acquired by AA.<p>Instead, it&#x27;s &quot;just&quot; an order of 20 aircrafts.<p>Note that this is not a new move by Boom, they played this card when raising money when they pitched at YC demo day, and they&#x27;re doing it again. The problem I have with this is the following:<p>&gt; agreement to purchase up to 20 Overture aircraft, with an option for an additional 40. American has paid a non-refundable deposit on the initial 20 aircraft<p>It&#x27;s &quot;up to 20&quot;, and not &quot;20&quot;, and there is a non-disclosed non-refundable deposit. If it&#x27;s a, say, $10,000 per aircraft, total of $200,000 (ouch, should I say... up to $200,000?), it&#x27;s a just a cheaper ad for AA, and ammo for the CEO when the board asks &quot;where are you innovating?&quot;.<p>Good luck to Boom, but I am unconvinced this is a viable company and a viable business.
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testing654321almost 3 years ago
this is wild
mmaunderalmost 3 years ago
Burning more Jet-A to get less people around the world faster has got to be the most tone deaf idea this decade. I&#x27;m a pilot, I just attended Airventure, and I love the history around SR-71, Concorde and the other incredible high speed planes we&#x27;ve built. But this is an idea that had its time and aviation has moved on to high bypass turbofan engines, reliability, safety, fuel efficiency and reducing our environmental impact.<p>There is so much opportunity for innovation in areas of aviation where we desperately need to innovate: Getting rid leaded avgas, moving away from fossil fuels altogether which includes fields like energy storage and electric propulsion, developing an efficient trainer to replace the piston lead-gasoline burning C172 that is so ubiquitous and makes up much of the 1500 required hours for an ATP license. So many opportunities.<p>Aviation is ripe for innovation. This ain&#x27;t it.
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