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Tell HN: Meetup.com is offering abandoned meetups to anyone willing to pay

317 pointsby prune998over 2 years ago
We moved away from meetup.com thinking our meetups would be destroyed at some point. When we stopped paying, meetup.com actually &quot;offered&quot; our meetups, including subscriber&#x27;s list with full name and email, to anyone willing to pay to keep them alive.<p>We are now out of control with no way to get the userlist cleared. meetup.com support is not responding to support requests.<p>Thinking of any action that we can take against meetup.com ?

44 comments

clmayover 2 years ago
There is actually a way to delete Meetup groups, versus just leaving&#x2F;stepping down from them.<p>The Meetup docs are quite clear about the default behavior if you leave&#x2F;step down: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.meetup.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360002865332-Closing-a-Meetup-group" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.meetup.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360002865332-Closi...</a><p>The answer you needed was just a quick Google search away: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=delete+meetup+group" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=delete+meetup+group</a>, e.g. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.google.com&#x2F;developergroups&#x2F;answer&#x2F;7378020?hl=en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.google.com&#x2F;developergroups&#x2F;answer&#x2F;7378020?hl...</a> and many other results.<p>Could Meetup offer up this distinction more clearly in their user docs? Sure. But like I said, the Meetup docs are pretty clear what happens when you follow their instructions.<p>It&#x27;s hard not to read OP as &quot;we took an action without doing due diligence to fully understand the consequences of doing so.&quot; The point at which you make an assumption like this is the point at which you bear equal responsibility for unfavorable outcomes.<p>Edit—the UI is actually very clear about this, and has been for at least the last couple of years: &quot;Your members will be given the chance to become the organizer and keep the group running without you.&quot;
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cstejereanover 2 years ago
This has been an issue with Meetup for as long as I remember. The problem is there are two distinct scenarios.<p>One is that the organizer has lost interest or is stepping down for some reason. Allowing the community to continue on Meetup in that case makes sense, by having someone step up to continue paying Meetup.<p>The other is that the community as a whole has decided to move to a new platform. In this case keeping the now defunct community around and making it seem viable is bad. The current active members will know where to go, but new potential members or former members that want to re-engage are going to get confused.<p>I got burned by this a couple of times, finding a group on meetup only to discover that it’s a ghost group, to the point where I’m now suspicious of any meetup group I find that hasn’t had an active event in the last couple of months.<p>This is where I think Meetup is shooting themselves in the foot by not having a way to dissolve a group if the group as a whole decides to move.
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mehdimover 2 years ago
I am a multiple meetup organizer and owner on meetup.com and I find it actually great that the meetup can stay alive if the organizer stop to pay. Your communities are not owned by you. Also, they don&#x27;t give subscribers infos but just &quot;an access&quot; to send them email communication to the list, not the &quot;list&quot; with email list etc...
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cableshaftover 2 years ago
Yep. I had a 1200 person geeky event meetup (board game events, geek movies, role playing, escape rooms, renaissance faires, conventions, zombie walks, a bunch of random geeky stuff) that I eventually wanted to stop paying $180&#x2F;year for when the pandemic hit, since I wasn&#x27;t willing to host any in-person events anymore.<p>I stepped down and someone who wasn&#x27;t even a member of the group swooped in to pay for it and has only used it to post speed dating events since (so the past two years).<p>Technically I inherited the group myself, but I was an active member already and the original creator chose to hand it over to me after she moved away from the area, since I said I was willing to pay for it of the people on the leadership team (I was a moderator and posted events already).<p>It&#x27;s one of the things I hate most about Meetup. There can be good things about it, if someone else is willing to carry on the torch like I was, and wants to keep the group going, but letting whoever wants to swoop in and snipe it just to harvest the user list is pretty crappy.<p>It should be something the admin (or at least a moderator, since maybe an admin could just ghost at some point) can choose to hand over, not just be an automatic process up for grabs for anyone.
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revlolzover 2 years ago
Meetup burned the bridge very badly for me. They got super greedy with their monetization and then moved their model to charge based on the number of members yet their site created or tolerated hundreds&#x2F;thousands of fake accounts impossible to curate without detrimental to the group enforcement.when raising the issue their responses were basically &quot;good luck&quot; or &quot;sorry, but were just going to be shit to everyone equally. Also, we&#x27;re increasing prices for the third time.&quot;
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joe_91over 2 years ago
Meetup really could be a 10x better platform. As someone who&#x27;s run a group on it having to pay to then put in the work to run a group on top of that is just crazy.<p>They could have monetised the platform in so many other different ways which could have helped the community instead of just going for the easy pickings of charging the event organisers.<p>Why not charge a percentage on top of any payments take? Create&#x2F;integrate with a room booking system in cities to help organisers book? (and take a fee on this)<p>The only thing Meetup does well is discovery - the domain name is amazing for the type of site it is and it is easy enough to search for groups in your city and find what you want. Everything else is pretty terrible.<p>I don&#x27;t know how you could justify having more than 3 dev&#x27;s working on this site the way it is at the moment. It just screams lazy...
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alphakiloover 2 years ago
Meetup was a great platform but has totally lost it in the user experience. Out of all popular consumer apps, I would argue Meetup has the highest friction for both organizers and participants<p>My problems meeting cyclists in Toronto led me to make a Toronto cycling discord of almost 1000 users<p>I actually took the solution and have just launched an app for many more hobbies and anyplace! <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;radar.ac" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;radar.ac</a><p>We&#x27;lr be adding events&#x2F;plans by end end of Q4. Zero friction to create or join an event!
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dougmwneover 2 years ago
This sounds like mostly an issue of bad user communication and expectations setting. Most meetups are communities, not someone&#x27;s personal fiefdom or mailing list. If the organizer disappears, the community should be empowered to keep the group running. But meetups could have been created for all kinds of reasons and it would be pretty horrifying to be able to purchase Dave&#x27;s family BDSM group.
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cookiengineerover 2 years ago
Some company took over my meetup because I missed a payment. Once, aka for a single month. For a meetup that I ran since around 2013.<p>Now they use the meetup to make advertisements for their own consultation services, and they have the identical talk under a different name for now the 20th+ time, with the same speaker for years.<p>Everybody from the old scene left the meetup and realized that it&#x27;s gone to shit, but they somehow manage to catfish still a lot of people with this strategy.<p>No idea why they keep doing this, and I stopped caring. They do this with all sorts of programming language related meetups, and it&#x27;s always the same talk in one form or the other, and they do this all over Germany. It&#x27;s ridiculous.<p>If you want to google them: &quot;thinktecture meetup&quot; and you&#x27;ll find yourself in groundhog day.
Operylover 2 years ago
This seems like a feature to me. It allows members of the group to keep going if the original admin&#x2F;owner goes away for whatever reason. But I don’t think you get a list of emails, unless that was like one of your screening questions?
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naugturover 2 years ago
On one hand I understand your frustrations, on the other hand, I&#x27;m coordinating a bunch of meetups and one of them lost its crew and was abandoned. Then I got in touch with a guy who bought it and is happily running the meetup now.<p>The actions you can take can be based on owning the trademark or copyright on the logo of the meetup.
gangsteadover 2 years ago
I ran a 1000 person NodeJs group for 4 years. I was aware meetup would offer up the group to anyone if I stepped away.<p>When it started dwindling and the other co-organizers lost interest I made an announcement that we were sunsetting the group at the end of the year. The last meetup was at a brewery instead of an office and we deleted the group right there.<p>It would be nice if there were a way to archive the group, but the only options are abandoning for anyone to grab as a marketing list or complete deletion.
deweyover 2 years ago
&gt; meetup.com thinking our meetups would be destroyed at some point<p>That seems naive, you created a meetup on a free platform that is built to bring users together. You are just the initiator, you don&#x27;t own the community.
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tbassettoover 2 years ago
This is by design and it happened to the HN Paris meetups I co-organized a decade ago. The new owner was a sales person and completely ruined it by spamming the list and creating new events that were just a cover for sponsored talks&#x2F;hackathons :(
mark-ruwtover 2 years ago
They&#x27;ve been doing this since at least 2019. When I shut down my Meetup, they sent a note out to everyone asking them to &quot;Step up to become this Meetup Group&#x27;s Organizer and you can guide its future direction!&quot;. Thankfully, I knew it was coming and messaged everyone beforehand so there wasn&#x27;t any confusion.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ibb.co&#x2F;xDmfSGd" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ibb.co&#x2F;xDmfSGd</a>
O__________Oover 2 years ago
Used to be that it was only possible for this to happen if the organizer failed to pay, then assistant organizers, then members. During the process the group was locked and no new members could join.<p>Curious:<p>- Do you know if the party that took over the group was an member or assistant organizer?<p>- Anyone able to link to a group that’s currently in detail for payment? (Think I saw something like this before, but I was a member of the group.)<p>_____________<p>Edit-001: Yep, here’s the related FAQ for failure to pay and group take overs:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.meetup.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360002883171-What-if-my-organizer-subscription-expires-" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.meetup.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360002883171-What-...</a>
3npover 2 years ago
I&#x27;d start with fine-combing the terms of use and service in place at the time of you agreeing to them (web.archive.org is your friend). Chances are you&#x27;re SoL but always start there.<p>As for actions, consider if maybe taking back some control is better than yielding to someone else for next time if control is what you actually desire? There are various federated and&#x2F;or self-hostable alternatives with way better migration stories.<p>Or maybe offer meetup lots of money for it back. Not much else you can do.
pbreitover 2 years ago
WeWork had purchased and then sold Meetup.com to &quot;AlleyCorp&quot; (whatever that is). Is AlleyCorp still the owner?<p>I was thinking my alma mater, Eventbrite, should have acquired Meetup.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;03&#x2F;30&#x2F;wework-sells-off-social-network-meetup-to-alleycorp-and-other-investors&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;techcrunch.com&#x2F;2020&#x2F;03&#x2F;30&#x2F;wework-sells-off-social-ne...</a>
dalbasalover 2 years ago
So, this in no way justifies what Meetup.com is (allegedly) doing. It sounds like a very bad business decision, besides being morally questionable.<p>However... stuff like this is quite normal a few steps up the big-fish, little-fish food web. Even very restrictive regimes allow data to sell with a company. Since company structure is malleable, a lot of acquisitions can be structured that way.<p>The proverbial meetup organizer organizes her meetups as a company, then sells that company. Such structuring can often be done on the fly, between offer and closing. In non-proverbial land, Meetup.com itself is likely to be the legal owner of the customer relationship. It is meeting organizers&#x27; access to data that is questionable, assuming restrictions exist.<p>The most restrictive examples are usually regulated markets. Casino regulators, for example, mostly issue licenses. The &quot;licensed entity&quot; is not so malleable, because the regulator gets to approve&#x2F;relicense sales. In practice though, having a regulator involved doesn&#x27;t change that much. Online casinos, big and small, get sold and the data follows one way or another.
gwynn_meetupover 2 years ago
Hi, my name is Gwynn from Meetup&#x27;s support team. So sorry to hear you&#x27;ve had a poor experience receiving assistance from the support team. We&#x27;d love to be able to help you out in any way we can. Please shoot me an email at gwynn@meetup.com and I can research your case history.
gargsover 2 years ago
This has always been how abandoned communities are offered a chance to stay alive...at least for the last 15(?) years or so.
nokyaover 2 years ago
Reselling (and sometimes even worse: handing them over for free) abandoned groups has been part of Meetup&#x27;s original business model (or at least for a very long time). I personally avoided this bad situation only by luck, thanks to a friend who had her company group and all members handed over to a competitor.<p>I am really sorry you were tricked by this. It is documented in their terms of use (which nobody reads) so I don&#x27;t think there is much to do but to spread the word and warn other Meetup users around you. Let them know to make sure they get everyone to leave their group before they leave it or abandon it.
jaredsohnover 2 years ago
This behavior of letting anyone take over the meetup makes historical sense to me based on how I remember the earlier days of Meetup. Back in 2004, I think most meetups I attended ended up being ~5 people getting together at a coffeeshop and we&#x27;d just try to come up with things to talk about on the spot. There weren&#x27;t official leaders (remember that being added later) so I imagine at that time some member probably would informally lead but if they just stopped attending, someone else would take that role.
toss1over 2 years ago
Considering the other mentions of a legit use case for continuing the group, and the problem of a random &quot;new owner&quot; swooping in and sniping the group&#x2F;list for their purposes, I wonder if the solution is to intentionally corrupt the list [0]?<p>At least that would prevent the sniping. In your case, do you have any continued access or has control already been sniped?<p>[0] Delete all but a few members, replace all members&#x27;s email addresses with junk&#x2F;temp email addresses, etc.
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guestbestover 2 years ago
They have been doing this since at least 2009, which turned me off on using the site for organizing. My advice is to strip out everything that belongs to you or you paid for if you are uncomfortable with a stranger using your previous efforts without input from you.
bell-cotover 2 years ago
Is &quot;we&quot; anything deeper than &quot;a few folks who do stuff together sometimes&quot;?<p>If you&#x27;re (say) the Cleveland Kiwanis Club, and Meetup tries to keep using that name after you&#x27;ve moved on, then Meetup is probably on the wrong end of a legal and PR situation.
poof_he_is_goneover 2 years ago
I have used this ability to pick up defunct meetups as a business opportunity. We used it to expand the footprint of our group to a much larger user base in some parallel communities. We now cross post our events across multiple groups.
adamredwoodsover 2 years ago
Before leaving a Meetup.com group, change the name to &quot;DEFUNCT&quot; or &quot;CLOSED&quot;. This should signal to people not to join the group.<p>I&#x27;ve always felt Meetup needs a competitor, as the cost is rather high, and the UI is not great.
Lacerda69over 2 years ago
On that note:<p>Anyone know a good platform&#x2F;tool to organize meetups that is not hot garbage? Ideally something that is FOSS&#x2F;self-hostable.<p>Edit: Nevermind, FlyingSnake asked the same below and got some good answers, thanks!
lucb1eover 2 years ago
In April 2020, I emailed them with a question about the privacy policy. Never got a response, though reading it back I could have phrased it better I guess. Anyway, somehow this doesn&#x27;t surprise me. They just don&#x27;t care to operate within privacy ethics&#x2F;laws.<p>---<p>[hello, your privacy policy says:]<p>&gt; In order to provide you with more tailored recommendations, we may obtain information about you from publicly and commercially available sources and other third parties as permitted by law. For more information about the data that we obtain from these providers, please contact us at privacy@meetup.com.<p>I have two questions about this:<p>1. Could you send me the information referred to?<p>2. How is it legal to obtain that data without informing users what kind of data is obtained? Article 14 of the GDPR specifically requires the controller (Meetup) to provide the data subject (users) with &quot;(d) the categories of personal data concerned&quot;.<p>[thank you in advance, kind regards, etc]<p>---
FlyingSnakeover 2 years ago
Is there an open source selfhosted alternative to meetup.com?
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black_puppydogover 2 years ago
Not sure how this can possibly be legal in the framework of GDPR. I&#x27;m not a lawyer of course, but treating data is tied to a purpose, and treating it for some other purpose requires new consent. (IANAL of course)<p>So if someone comes in and runs the same community, that&#x27;s one thing. It at least kind of still does the same thing.<p>Harvesting the user data and then offering speed dating stuff that&#x27;s completely unrelated, as one comment here describes, that&#x27;s just grabbing &quot;random&quot; data off the webs and starting spamming; no relation to the previous purpose of data treatment. And meetup making a profit off of that... I mean, again, I&#x27;m not a lawyer, but that&#x27;s certainly against the spirit of the law.
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mesozoicover 2 years ago
Good way to market I guess take over old groups and send messages, or host events at your own restaurant&#x2F;brewery, or whatever else.
iepathosover 2 years ago
No action you can take against meetup at this point. Meetup owns the subscriber list and account and can do with it what they like.
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JohnHaugelandover 2 years ago
They&#x27;ve been doing this forever, and this is a core concept in meetup<p>It doesn&#x27;t require payment. It&#x27;s free to any of your old members.
k__over 2 years ago
Well, if you already pay, they basically give you all meetups you&#x27;re part of and none other will continue, for free.<p>I have 300 meetups at home.
apgwozover 2 years ago
As someone who spent 2.5 years working at Meetup during the early &#x27;10s (no idea what it&#x27;s like today, mind you)... But:<p>Organizers were never able to see anything but basic information about users. Definitely not email. Mostly historic RSVPs, a userpic, and whatever information provided when you joined a group or RSVPed (organizers could ask questions in both cases).<p>Despite what people seem to believe, the _vast_ majority of Meetups are about topics that aren&#x27;t technical at all. There have always been technical oriented meetups, of course, and that category used to have a lot of user volume for events, but most of the meetups on the site were for hobbies, support groups, hiking, biking, dogs, etc, etc, etc..<p>Let me also say that _most people_, at the time, resisted changes to the site. Redesigns (and there were a few attempts while I was there) would result in crushing amounts of support tickets, and social media campaigns threatening the business. It was wild! During this time:<p>1. Meetup did usability studies (and even paid for them) 2. Ran lots of A&#x2F;B tests, and did so properly (and by this, I mean, we waited until the statistics gave us actual confidence) 3. Were generally very conservative about roll outs or design changes, must to the chagrin of everyone that worked there.<p>Meetup also had (and likely very much still has) a really interesting problem. Most people want to passively join a group and show up to a few meetups when their schedule allows. But! Organizers who don&#x27;t organize meetups, or who aren&#x27;t into it anymore, mean that the group exists but doesn&#x27;t do anything and sits inactive. There&#x27;s no worse feeling in the world than finding a group of potential shared interest holders only to realize that the group doesn&#x27;t actually do anything, and maybe never has.<p>And here&#x27;s the problem. When I was there, we were about 100 employees, and we _all_ were there (not for large sums of money, let me just get that out of the way) because we believed in the mission: &quot;A Meetup everywhere about (al)most anything.&quot; This company was completely mission driven!<p>So! What do you do? You want organizers to have &quot;skin in the game&quot; and be passionate about what they&#x27;re doing so that the rest of the group actually has a good experience. Well, you charge the organizer! When they run out of passion, they stop paying, someone else maybe steps up! It worked so well, soooo many times, and it was a big piece of the &quot;how do we make money?&quot; problem.<p>Meetup was so unique back in those days. There were discussion boards, sure. But, we only ever felt successful when actual people went to actual meetups. It was the best feeling in the world to see thousands and thousands of people getting out in the world and meeting their neighbors to do simple things (and not so simple things, like finding the 5 other people in your state that suffered from the same chronic medical conditions), and if you were ever in the office on Broadway, you couldn&#x27;t forget that feeling, cause you saw the thousands of pictures of happy people meeting up all over.
DIARRHEA_xdover 2 years ago
&gt; meetup.com actually &quot;offered&quot; our meetups<p>Do you have a link or a screenshot you can show us? Might help contextualize.
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zxlk21eover 2 years ago
not to anyone willing to pay then, right? only in cases where the organizer has gone awol
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ataruover 2 years ago
If you don&#x27;t renew a domain name, someone else can buy it. Is this much different?
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Gysover 2 years ago
It used to be possible to delete a group: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.google.com&#x2F;developergroups&#x2F;answer&#x2F;7378020?hl=en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;support.google.com&#x2F;developergroups&#x2F;answer&#x2F;7378020?hl...</a><p>I did it myself a few times. However, maybe that is not possible anymore?
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swyxover 2 years ago
i recently unsubscribed from meetup out of abject disgust.<p>---<p>here is the unsubscribe sequence for meetup Pro:<p>- there is no unsubscribe&#x2F;cancel button in the app<p>- google and find this <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.meetup.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360002862672" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;help.meetup.com&#x2F;hc&#x2F;en-us&#x2F;articles&#x2F;360002862672</a><p>- learn that you have to email pro-billing@meetup.com to cancel<p>- they reply:<p>&gt; Canceling a Pro subscription is something we have to do at the back end. We&#x27;d like to offer you a one-time 50% discount to continue your Meetup Pro subscription. This would automatically apply to your upcoming Pro renewal. &gt; Without a subscription, you will no longer be able to organize your groups. Your groups may be closed or another organizer may take them over. &gt; Please reply to this message to confirm if you’d like to accept the discount and continue your Meetup Pro subscription. &gt; We will not take action on your account until we hear back.<p>- me: no. cancel. come on guys<p>- 1 day later<p>- me: hi Diana, just checking in, can. you please cancel my subscription.<p>&gt; Thanks for confirming that you do not want the 50% discount to stay on Pro and retain your groups. Without a subscription, you will lose access to all Pro features and you will be removed as the organizer for your groups. After thirty days, your groups will either close or someone else may step up as the organizer. Before I proceed, I&#x27;d like to make sure you&#x27;re aware of your options. Please let us know how you’d like to proceed by choosing from one of these options: Continue leading 3 or fewer groups by downgrading to a standard Meetup subscription. Or cancel your subscription entirely, which disables all Pro features and leaves your group vulnerable to closure or takeover. &gt; If you&#x27;ve read through these options and would still like to cancel your subscription, please reply with the words, &quot;Please cancel my Pro subscription.&quot; We&#x27;ll restore your account to its status before you enrolled in Meetup Pro. This means we&#x27;ll remove you as the organizer from any groups you started or took over while you had a Meetup Pro subscription. Let me know how you&#x27;d like to proceed! I&#x27;ll keep an eye out for your reply so I can take action on your account.<p>- me: Please cancel my Pro subscription.<p>&gt; Yvan here from the Community Support team, filling in for Diana. As you requested, I&#x27;ve canceled your Meetup Pro subscription, effective immediately.<p>---<p>i wanted to put them on a shit list so badly. its probably easier to launch nukes than quit meetup.
Kinnardover 2 years ago
DAM.
GoodbyeMrChipsover 2 years ago
WOW!<p>Comments pointing out that this is illegal in the UK and Europe under the GDPR removed! What gives?
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