TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Tell HN: The 10-bit timers are about to overflow on September 17th

400 pointsby modinfoover 2 years ago
Due to the overflow of the 10-bit counter, some devices will &quot;go back in time&quot; by 1024 weeks (almost 20 years). This will occur on the night of September 17-18. The problem will affect - and this is now a sure thing - Microsemi&#x27;s (AKA Symmetricom) SyncServer (100, 200 and 300 series), TimeProvider 1000, parts of TimeProvider 5000 and Timesource TS3x00 (and a few others), which are popular in industrial networks.<p>Loss of historical data and event logs, logging and security problems, loss of process visualization - these are some of the surprises that can happen when, having received the wrong date, other devices also decide to &quot;time travel.&quot;<p>What to do?<p>If your network is running one of the aforementioned devices, it&#x27;s best to disconnect it in advance. Unfortunately, most of them are no longer supported by the manufacturer and no patches are expected. So it looks like they will become quite useless after September 17.<p>This leaves very little time, therefore, to replace them with new solutions. If you are not sure whether the problem also affects your device, you can unplug it on September seventeenth, and if it shows the correct date the next day, plug it in again. Of course, such a maneuver is possible only in those networks that can operate without time synchronization according to GPS for several&#x2F;some hours.

11 comments

fanf2over 2 years ago
This is not <i>the</i> GPS week counter rollover <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GPS_week_number_rollover" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GPS_week_number_rollover</a><p>But instead it is a device-specific rollover. It’s relatively common for GPS receivers to handle the limited week counter by having a baked-in epoch that is more recent than the latest rollover, which gives them a nearly 20 year lifetime after that epoch instead of failing at the GPS rollover.
评论 #32701514 未加载
defrostover 2 years ago
Counters roll over, this is not new.<p>What matters is how rollover is dealt with.<p>For interest, we (mostly) all use GPS .. and the &#x27;onboard&#x27; broadcast 10 bit GPS week counter has already rolled over twice:<p>* midnight (UTC) August 21 to 22, 1999<p>* midnight (UTC) April 6 to 7, 2019<p>The GPS &quot;seconds since midnight last Sunday&quot; timer resets to zero every week.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GPS_week_number_rollover" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;GPS_week_number_rollover</a><p>[2] Satellite Geodesy Günter Seeber <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.geokniga.org&#x2F;bookfiles&#x2F;geokniga-seeber-g-satellite-geodesy-2003.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.geokniga.org&#x2F;bookfiles&#x2F;geokniga-seeber-g-satelli...</a>
评论 #32700475 未加载
snickerbockersover 2 years ago
Im confused...were 10-bit timers being used in recent history? Also they&#x27;re using weeks as their atomic unit?<p>This seems like something that never should have existed.
评论 #32700462 未加载
评论 #32704157 未加载
评论 #32702257 未加载
评论 #32701412 未加载
MegaDeKayover 2 years ago
Here are a few links. This is the key one. The units with this problem are obsolete and Microsemi has done very little to publicize this. This means you have a ticking time bomb if you thought everything was good because you got through the 2019 rollover. There are a few select models where a return-to-factory firmware update can help you dodge the problem, but it is probably too late to get something turned around now if this is the first you have heard of it. If all you need is a 10 MHz or 1PPS reference, those bits will continue to function. If you need it for NTP, you&#x27;ve got a problem.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sync.empowerednetworks.com&#x2F;keep-your-ntp-server-current&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sync.empowerednetworks.com&#x2F;keep-your-ntp-server-curr...</a><p>Another link stating &quot;But other GPS receiver manufacturers set a delayed date for the rollover date to occur on – September 18th, 2022&quot;. &quot;Other&quot; in this case = Symmetricom &#x2F; Microsemi.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.orolia.com&#x2F;will-your-network-time-servers-be-affected-by-the-september-2022-delayed-gps-rollover&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.orolia.com&#x2F;will-your-network-time-servers-be-aff...</a>
noisy_boyover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m flying on 17th September. Looking forward to it now.
评论 #32700469 未加载
m3047over 2 years ago
It&#x27;s called &quot;Global Positioning System&quot; not &quot;Global Time System&quot;.<p>Granted, it&#x27;s a pretty accurate time system in the sense that it needs to know the time to an accuracy determined by the speed of light crossing the globe: that&#x27;s how it knows where you are, that&#x27;s its job.<p>Day, weeks, months, years... feh! In 7 minutes the Earth transits its own [edit] diameter; in 4 hours, the distance to the moon; in a year it&#x27;s (roughly) back where it started.<p>Great hack, but maybe you ought to know what year it is if it matters to you. No way to figure that out? No clock available which is accurate enough?
评论 #32709591 未加载
mklover 2 years ago
People designed new devices with just a 10-bit time counter <i>after Y2K?!</i>
评论 #32705293 未加载
评论 #32701096 未加载
评论 #32704206 未加载
评论 #32711097 未加载
leshenkaover 2 years ago
This is maybe a very dumb question but was it so expensive to add several bits (and extend its lifespan exponentially) to what is basically a counter?
评论 #32700482 未加载
评论 #32701090 未加载
评论 #32700377 未加载
评论 #32700385 未加载
bostickover 2 years ago
Are there any references for this? What is the &quot;epoch&quot; here?<p>1024 weeks before Sept 17 is February 1, 2003. What is significant about that date?<p>References welcome.
评论 #32703745 未加载
tyingqover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m wondering how comprehensive the research is that says it&#x27;s just those 3 vendors and ~7 devices. Given that it&#x27;s more than one vendor, it feels like a pattern that&#x27;s a common mistake or design compromise. I wouldn&#x27;t be surprised if the impact is broader than expected.
评论 #32704006 未加载
评论 #32703691 未加载
calebpetersonover 2 years ago
What kind of industrial applications? Are we talking about manufacturing or grid&#x2F;infrastructure?
评论 #32701596 未加载