Ask HN: Say 'no' to a person who wants you to build their bad startup idea?

"That sounds pretty cool. I'm not really looking for new projects right now because I want to spend my time on the ones I've got going already, but if you want, I can send you a list of programming resources* you might find useful."<p>If they respond with "But don't you like my idea?" or "You mean you don't want to help me?" respond with something like "I haven't done enough research to know if the idea is good or not, and it's really hard to predict how the market is going to go, especially in technology. I think it'd be awesome if you built this thing... I just can't offer much more than moral support, high-fives, and maybe a little bit of advice. If you really want someone to build this, try hiring a freelancer on ODesk... I just can't make the time right now."<p>Don't worry about whether the idea sucks; very few ideas survive through the full development of the product, and very few of these people will follow-through.<p>If they keep pushing, end the conversation with "Look, you're my friend, but I'd much rather we stay friends than become business partners." or "Look: I'm choosing to spend my time on my projects. This doesn't mean I don't like you, or that I dislike the idea; it just means that I'm not the guy to build it for you. I'll gladly point you to resources, or show you where to go to hire a programmer, but this is your project, and you should be the one to build it."<p>*Obviously, you'd have to compile a list like this, but that should be relatively easy to do.

Once they tell you their idea quote them a price to build it. They may try and convince you that they'll cut you in or take care of you when it's a big success, tell them you aren't in a position right now to be able to do that. Finding out they don't get free labor should end the conversation pretty quick and you don't have to burst their bubble.

The problem is the news is riddles with simple idea apps that where developed in a week or two and where parleyed into a success. The problem is those are the fringe cases, it's like winning the lottery for most other apps it is a huge amount of work to get it right and not just be shoveling more junkware onto the market.<p>That being said, and given the fact that I restore vehicles as a hobby, I generally approach it from a car analogy because it seems that everyone understand a computer to car analogy. I simply tell them, do you realize that your idea will entail more work than a frame-off restoration of a car back to original mint condition. That literally in less time, I could totally disassemble a car, it's motor and body, remove all of it's rust, weld what needs to be welded, sand it all, paint it, rebuild the axles, the transmission, the engine install them, install all the wring and electronics and reupholster the interior etc. etc.<p>I then go on to explain that if they have not done any planning other than an idea, it is like doing all that without having a manual that tells me what the head bolts should be torqued to, what the original color code of the body paint was, etc. I do this in a polite way, but they end up getting the gravity of the situation.<p>Then I will tell them I love to restore cars, if you go out and buy a really exotic car, I would love to come over at night and give you a hand on it, because it would be interesting to me. Applications are like that. I have to be really excited about the idea to want to put that much free time into a project. If we are around it, I usually point to my 69 Bronco and say I have over 1000 hours in that truck. It is my pride and joy, I was really excited about that project. The magnitude of what they asks sets in at that point.<p>Most importantly though, I try to do so from a perspective of educating them and not berating them. I think this whole problem arises from a lack of understanding of what or better put how much they are asking for. I think it stems from the fact that software, in their experience, makes doing things easier and faster, but making software has little to do with the experience of using software, it is actually inverse the more automated and helpful a piece of software is the more work that went into making it seem like it almost reads your mind.

If these are people you genuinely care about, it is worth the time investment to educate them why the idea isn't practical or useful. Keep in mind that they often do not have nearly the same insight into what it takes to really build a product or a business.<p>For a lot of other people (where you dont want to invest the time debating/educating them), you can offer to let them retain equity and work on it at contract rates. If you have the spare time and use for the cash, you can give them a slight discount (vs. market) and everyone wins.

Personally, I think you should tell anyone with a bad idea that asks you to build their product that their idea isn't good. As a teenager who struggled for the first eight to nine months to find a worthy problem to solve after deciding to dabble in entrepreneurship, I think your friends or referrals will benefit from blunt advice. Also, if someone comes to you without willing to pay money for development or contract work, then I have a feeling they aren't too serious about the project, or haven't done any validation of the market.

There really are two things you are mentioning here, so I'll treat them separately (even if most of the times, both are relevant).<p>1) I think the idea sucks:<p>Stay honest, but polite. I try to explain why I believe the idea is not, in its current form, good enough. I stay as scientific as possible in this explanation, by giving concrete examples, scenarios and cases where it wouldn't work. At the same time, I provide some advice in terms of what I think there are opportunities for the idea (if any) and almost always finish with a motivational message about not giving up. After all, it's not because I think it's not a good idea that it is not... and who am I to crush people's dreams.<p>2) You're not interested in the idea:<p>A lot of us have busy lives, and that's a fact. There are many things you would like to do, try, and experience but at some point there are choices to be made and priorities to establish. When I'm not interested I explain that there's a lot on my plate already, and that I wouldn't be able to keep up with it. So instead of saying yes, out of excitement, and disappointing later, I'd rather politely decline upfront for everyone's best interest :)<p>--<p>Bottom line, there is no need to lie or invent excuses, but 'explain' it in a way people understand, and they shouldn't get hurt.

One approach I use is to say that although the 'idea' is good/interesting/brilliant I am not passionate enough about the project to be able to give it my all.<p>On a related note, I think of the worthiness of ideas based on whether they are interesting enough to get me to work on them in my spare time even if it were for free.

It's even worse if you actually work on these ideas. I've done it before and I won't ever do it again.<p>What ends up happening is that you start working on it and the "ideas person" doesn't have any time invested in it and gets bored when it's not finished within a short amount of time. If they do decide to move on, you can't do anything with it unless you want to either give them a percentage or go through a lawsuit.<p>I worked on a project for 6 months only to have the ideas guy tell me that he would rather focus on things that are making him money now, like computer tech support (this was back in 2003). His business went under a year or so later.<p>I get approached a couple of times a month like this and I usually end up telling them that I am working on my own projects and I don't want to lose focus. It's never been a problem.

Instead of saying "no" to their idea, try to say "yes" to something else. Ask yourself, what could they do that would prove it's a good idea? For example, maybe they could line up a customer who would pay for it, or an investors would would pay to have it developed. Then you can suggest they take this additional action.