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Kevin Rose: We Made Lots of Hiring Mistakes at Digg

61 pointsby flardinoisover 13 years ago

22 comments

VonLipwigover 13 years ago
Bit of a non-article really. One paragraph on bad hires. It doesn't say why PHP stopped being the problem. It doesn't really say why existing programmers couldn't transition to another language. It doesn't say what Rose would do differently a second time around.<p>On the surface it looks like a lack of strategy lead to the company hiring too many PHP developers. Of course, it could also be the developers were CHEAP and couldn't transition to another language. It could also be a lack of leadership didn't realise programmers could transition between languages or individuals were not reassigned to focus on another language so little got done.<p>With so little content all you have is speculation so who knows what was going on.
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mgkimsalover 13 years ago
"According to Rose, “there is a temptation that you want to throw as many developers as possible at a problem.” As Digg was built on top of PHP, the company would hire too many developers that specialized in this language. Then, however, Rose noted, “you end up with lots of PHP developers, but at some point, PHP isn’t a problem anymore and you are stuck with all of those developers.” At that point, said Rose, you end up having to hire a lot of developers that can do other things and don’t know what to do with the old developers." -------------------------------<p>OK - so don't <i>hire employees</i>, but contract with contractors. Seems a pretty simple problem, yet few companies I talk to want to go down that route.<p>"We're looking for someone who's in it for the long haul" or "we value loyalty" are some reasons I've heard from companies that won't consider contractors.<p>In some situations, that's probably fine. In many other cases - fast tech-driven startup-type stuff - contracting probably makes more sense for precisely this reason. The company's needs can change quickly, and having a lot of staff that don't know X but only Y is a competitive problem.<p>"But smart people can learn X too!" Well, yes, to a point, but probably not as well as the people at your competition may already know it. And who says all those smart people really <i>want</i> to learn X? If you're really switching from Y to X, some Y devs may resent that, because Y can handle the workload too. They may not put all the effort in to learning X, because they see it as a fad, or a dangerous pivot that is doomed to failure, etc.<p>"Smart people can learn new tech X too!" is condescendingly treating devs as interchangeable parts while damning with some praise ("but they're smart!")<p>"If your developers are either incapable of pivoting to a new language or flat out refuse to, then they are terrible developers."<p>You've just done 3 years of Rails development, fighting all those version bugs, pulling all the late nighters, getting every rock solid and scaling out to the moon. Yay! Launched, everything's great, and you're rocking it. Then your board of directors signs a deal with MS for Bing tie-in, and MS invests some money in your company, but you have to pivot to ASP.NET/C#. In 3 months.<p>Do you refuse? YOU TERRIBLE DEVELOPER!<p>What's that? You'd rather keep doing Rails, so much so that you'll quit your job and move somewhere else to get a chance to keep working on Rails projects? That describes <i>most</i> of the Rails devs I know, and I wouldn't say they're "terribly developers" at all. Well, a couple aren't great... :)
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ojbyrneover 13 years ago
The sheer arrogance is amazing.<p>So since leaving digg I've heard the following phrase from many competent software dev managers - any good software engineer can learn a new language - but to Kevin - those same software engineers can't learn anything new, while he, of course, can easily learn from his mistakes.<p>Just to be clear - those engineers, dismissed as "PHP devs" have numerous degrees, decades of experience, and at least one published book. Kevin dropped out of a PC repair school that he likes to refer to as a "CS program."<p>Anyway he seems to be doing his best to expose his lack of competence.
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willvarfarover 13 years ago
To count programmers by their sole programming language proficiency suggests he was paying bottom dollar, rather than hiring hackers.
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rickmbover 13 years ago
Short version: Rose, like so many non-technical founders, had no idea what developers actually do and how to hire and manage them.<p>It's not exactly a unique story, in fact it's not limited to start-ups, it's pretty endemic in the whole IT-business.
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LinaLauneBaerover 13 years ago
I think if you hire a smart person that knows PHP inside out and your requirements change, then you should not have a problem - in theory. Every good developer/hacker should be able to learn something new in a short amount of time. So it really seems that they hired not so smart people or they simply fired them too fast.
snorkelover 13 years ago
Makes no mention of how the quality of Digg's content fell head-first down a staircase. All the rock star developers in the world can't fix bad editorial decisions.
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joshkleinover 13 years ago
The two things he mentions as his biggest mistakes are both symptoms of the same thing: hiring outside your comparative advantage. He hired too many developers for a product that's comparative advantage is in what content is (and is not) shown, and what people say about the content, instead of hiring enough community managers (hence the unruly community problem). Digg and HN aren't differentiated by the features of the website, they're differentiated by the content and community.<p>Hire inside your comparative advantage. Contract/vendor everything else.
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iwwrover 13 years ago
How would you explain reddit's success, compared to digg? Reddit was basically developed by 2 people and has never had more than 3 devs behind it.
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ebbvover 13 years ago
If your developers are either incapable of pivoting to a new language or flat out refuse to, then they are terrible developers.<p>Regardless, Digg v4 was clearly the problem. I still haven't seen him outright admit that the fact that at launch Digg v4 was basically a blowjob to Mashable, Wired, and other "content" sites and a big middle finger to the average user.<p>If he could honestly own up to the fact it would demonstrate a real understanding of what caused everyone to flee.
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formerdiggerover 13 years ago
Kevin wasn't around enough to know what was going on with the company. We probably saw him 1-2 days a month at the office and that was because he needed a place to park his Porsche 911.
smspenceover 13 years ago
When people talk about hiring web developers, it always seems like there is such a strong emphasis on them knowing one and only one language. Like Kevin Rose said: "you end up with lots of PHP developers, but at some point, PHP isn’t a problem anymore and you are stuck with all of those developers."<p>Was PHP the only language these people knew? And they were incapable of learning anything else? I don't get it. I don't call myself a "C++ developer" even though I use C++ every day at work. I know several languages, and I am confident that if I wanted to start learning a new language tomorrow, I could get up to speed on it and its relevant libraries fairly quickly.<p>Were these so-called "PHP developers" completely incapable of learning Python or Ruby or some other language? I don't understand how you can be a software developer and only ever use one language in your life. But for some reason this seems to be common when I read articles about web development.
relediover 13 years ago
Every few months a story like this from Kevin Rose pops up where he tries to explain what went wrong. Nothing's changed, he's still blaming the hiring process and the developers.<p>On the other hand, I would love to hear the story of why Digg failed from one of these developers.
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yourdpover 13 years ago
Grass is green, sky is blue. Rose was a kid - we all enjoy seeing entrepreneurial success and hopefully he finds that with Milk. Though it again sounds like he's merely surrounded by a bunch of developers and little creative...
knodiover 13 years ago
Thats the problem with someone that has not done development/engineering leading and development/engineering team they have a simplistic view of the problem or only understand it superficially.
Hominemover 13 years ago
He couldn't fire them?<p>I've always thought his blaming the digg developers was pretty classless. He was in a leadership position, he needed to lead.
richardzover 13 years ago
His biggest mistake is doesn't understand what is a developer. I have never seen a developer ONLY do PHP.
jcslzrover 13 years ago
my problem with digg didnt have to do with technology, it had to do with my perception of rating links as fake
maeon3over 13 years ago
Funny how the developers get blamed for when the company fails, but never credited for companywide success. Frankly, im sick and tired of it and im going to do absolutely nothing about it.
wavephormover 13 years ago
I just love how he's blaming web developers for managerial mistakes.
hasturover 13 years ago
OLD NEWS<p>(if you watched any interviews with KR, you knew this years ago)
dbboover 13 years ago
Don't hire 20 developers of a single language. Got it.