"75% of the time we spend with our kids in our lifetime will be spent by age 12"<p>I was one of those ppl that made the decision of not having kids. I am a 40 yr old man now. This was the single worst decision I've ever made in my whole life. My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less.<p>My life is now dominated by regret every day. I just can't get over that feeling. I've tried many things like therapy, counseling ect. It only helps for a little bit but I am still doing therapy. Some nights I wake up with panic and stay up all night with shallow breathing and high heart rate.<p>I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and do bare minimum to not get fired. I 've gotten few promotions here and there but nowhere near my potential of where my career could've been. Everything is just secondary, nothing is interesting.<p>I am constantly triggered by families and young kids. Even reading that post sent my heart rate soaring (apple watch) with anxiety . I just don't know what to do, its too unbearable. I fantasize about things like getting cancer and that seems to calm me down a little bit. Sometimes I fantasize about leaving my spouse, who I love to death, find someone who I can have a child with.
A few posts here are suggesting that it's not too late. Perhaps so, but the way are describing yourself is worrisome, in a way that I think if you <i>attempted</i> to have kids (either biologically or through adoption), your stress levels would reach new heights that are unsustainable.<p>You are depressed, anxious, and have lost sight of what you want out of life. I don't know if kids are the bandage here. At the least, you need to figure out yourself before, or at least in parallel, to working on introducing young children into your family.<p>It's hard to offer specific advice on such a broad topic to a stranger. You've taken the right steps (therapy, counseling), but you have yet to find your inner peace. What do your social connections look like? Genuine social connection is usually highly correlated with happiness. Those connections can give you a sense of purpose (which is part of having kids) and a "place" in this growingly isolated world.<p>I'd start there, if you have not. Investing in people and in the relationships you have is absolutely critical to ones happiness. I'd be curious to hear more about how you see this part of your life.
Taking aside all of your emotional concerns, you should know right away that women absolutely can have healthy biological children at or past the age of 39. Obviously I can't speak for your wife and her specific health or reproductive situation but in general, the idea that "the window has closed" is more often than not totally false. Look into this in more detail with real medical professionals. One interesting observation comes from the article I link to below, which points out that many of the supposed female fertility window statistics are actually based on extremely old information from pre-modern times. Worth reading for a bit of optimism and perspective.<p><a href="https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-long-can-you-wait-to-have-a-baby/309374/" rel="nofollow">https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2013/07/how-lon...</a><p>noteworthy quote from the article:<p>"The widely cited statistic that one in three women ages 35 to 39 will not be pregnant after a year of trying, for instance, is based on an article published in 2004 in the journal Human Reproduction. Rarely mentioned is the source of the data: French birth records from 1670 to 1830. The chance of remaining childless—30 percent—was also calculated based on historical populations.<p>In other words, millions of women are being told when to get pregnant based on statistics from a time before electricity, antibiotics, or fertility treatment."
You're not gonna read all these comments, are you?<p>Hope you will still have luck, but in the meantime - sorry if it sounds harsh but seems like quickest way to communicate it - if you are not ok with yourself and with your life, I don't think you want to have kids.<p>It's like a polish proverb regarding relationships: don't try to find a girl who will make you happy, find the happiness within yourself and then some girl will find that.<p>If you cannot make it ok with yourself without kids I don't think it's a situation which you want to put them into. Seriously, there are many things that you cannot change about the world and about your kids. Being able to accept reality seems useful.<p>Also I've talked with quite a few people whose parents were all about kids - that was all they wanted from life. And these people as kids (as adults too) were kind of lost. Because if my parents only care about their children, what is there to care about in life? Should I also make kids ASAP and care about them? I mean, it is our biology but it's also a vicious circle.<p>Other than that you have some options, adoption, some other woman can carry it for both of you etc.<p>I wish you all the best.
New(ish) parent here. Two things:<p>First, the bad news: lots of comments saying stuff like "Don't have kids to fill a perceived hole in your life". In general, the advice "Don't do ____ to fill a hole in your life" is good for frivolous things, but I don't think this applies to being a parent. Parenting is a biological and psychological life milestone. To me it's felt more like leveling up my maturity than buying or achieving something. An analogy is something like going from relying on my parents to moving out and being independent. I realize this step isn't for everyone, but am skeptical about 95% of ppl so confident they don't want to take a step their linage has done for thousands of years.<p>Second, the good news: my experiences (and accounts of friends as well) suggests that attachment to a child is less biological and more developed than you'd expect. When my daughter was born she felt like a stranger; I didn't know her. The more time I spend with her, the more she learns and depends on me, and the more I grow emotionally attached to her. This suggests you'd get 98% of the parenting experience through adoption vs being a biological parent. You'd miss out on stuff like "o wow her eyes look like mine", but at least in my experience, this has been less important than I would've thought. The big stuff like seeing them learn, their innocent joy, and you 'paying it forward' in the circle of life would be the same. (NOTE: these are my 2 cents as a biological parent. It'd be worth reading some adoptive parent accounts as well). Also, if adoption is not for you, I'd still recommend getting involved in helping kids in some way (education, financial, etc.); again, what are we here for if not to help the next generation?
You're 40.<p>It's not too late.<p>You have discovered it is the most important thing to you.<p><i>So do it</i>. Do it.<p>Take the actions needed to do what you want to do. And if you choose not to take those actions, or if you find it too hard to take the needed actions within the needed timeframe, then be content with not having kids.<p>To be brutally frank, it's likely that one day you will part with your current wife, and then you will have neither child nor wife. Take action to have a child - explain to your wife how you feel - if she wants to take that journey with you, great, if she doesn't then you both know that things have changed.<p>But act quick, because time is against you. You will be physically capable of having kids for many years to come, but every year past 40 it make less sense for a variety of reasons.<p>I only had one child, for which I am eternally grateful. I deeply wish I had more than one, for which I am eternally regretful. I left it too late to have more.<p>Kids are the best thing in the universe, and indeed for me personally, the very reason for living. I wish I had known that sooner in life.<p>And when you go onto the dating websites, be right up front about your situation. "I'm 40, I'm looking for a woman to have kids with fairly soon." Choose a good and kind trustworthy woman who you think would be a good mother. Make sure you bring the same things to the party. You don't need a perfect relationship. There are many women out there in exactly the same boat as you. Don't spend years not finding the perfect person. Find a good person on the same wavelength, get on the job.<p>Be open to the idea of having kids with someone simply on the basis that you both want kids - start out separated and then do a great job of co-parenting as a mum and dad who were never "together" in the first place.<p>Post again on HN in two years and tell us the name of your baby, if you are so blessed.
Don't have kids to fill a perceived hole in your life.<p>I absolutely understand the vicious and cyclical nature of what I'm saying, but half the time people feel like you go on to have kids and then discover that feeling of emptiness was just them all along. Having children can just as much separate and ostracise you from your existing life and social circles, and make things worse. So if you do have kids and it turns out you have a deeper depression, it's not the best environment to introduce somebody who needs all your attention, every day for a few years. It's not fair to the children.<p>You're 40 and you're not enjoying your work. Fix that first. It's a struggle many have, even parents. Honestly, life as a whole makes a lot more sense when you enjoy what you do every day, when you feel appreciated and see value in your work product.<p>Once you're grounded, you can look at options. Surrogacy might be an option for a biological or semi-biological match. Consider your partner's feelings in this too. Fostering might be the best on-ramp, but you're not going to be handed a kid to care for unless <i>you're</i> in top condition.<p>If you're setting that as a goal, make sure you consider that <i>becoming happy with life</i> might take a while, and it might take so long children stop being an option altogether. Make sure you don't tie yourself to a post if you're unsure which way the tide's going. If it doesn't happen, it doesn't happen. Don't let it get in the way of your enjoyment of life.<p>Best of luck.
When I read that you fantasize both about getting a deadly illness like cancer and uprooting your life by leaving your spouse, I think those are warning signs for a depression. It's some very heavy things to be carrying around with you and it sounds really painful. I'm sorry that you're having to deal with such unpleasant thoughts and feelings<p>I'm not a doctor or psychiatrist, plus this is only a single post on a web forum, so I can't say for certain whether that's the case<p>I think you need to address the pattern of thought you're describing and that it would be helpful for you to talk to a mental health professional to see if they can provide some relief to you<p>A first step could be to simply tell your spouse "I think I have a depression and I would like to get better. Would you be okay helping me with that?". Make yourself accountable to the people you love and care about to take the actions needed to get better<p>Depression is treatable and you can start feeling happy about your life again, I promise you!<p>I hope you find a way to get through this difficult place that it seems you're finding yourself in
Sorry if you find this question offensive. Not my intention whatsoever.<p>You have been in the two extremes of parenting. From deciding not to have kids to miserably missing the kids you didn't have.<p>So, my question is: Is this really about having/not having kids, or is it some kind of existential crisis projected in the absence of kids in your life?
Sounds like you're projecting something on not being a parent. Try the "what for" game. What do I want kids for? To extend my legacy. What do I want to extend my legacy for? To feel connected to the world. What do I want to feel connected to the world for? Just keep going recursively until you deconstruct it to a point where you see that it's not as bad as all that.<p>I don't know why, but your story made me think of volunteering. Have you considered it? Might give you a sense of motivation and meaning.<p>Also, since you seem to be in a fragile state right now, <i>very</i> regular outdoors or not-at-home exercise might be a good way to get mental balance.
If it's any consolation, I'm in my 40s and I have 3 kids and I honestly have days where my burnout and anxiety is as bad as you describe. I don't think it's not having kids that is your problem, I think you're probably predisposed to having an anxiety disorder and you're going through your mid-life crisis.<p>Note that I'm not downplaying the seriousness of your situation by calling it a mid-life crisis - the mid-life crisis is real as fuck and it's a force to be reckoned with. I think the trick of it is to redirect that angst and energy into something useful. Rather than wreck your marriage and run off with 27 year old, maybe you should try an entirely new career, or get into volunteer work, or take a 6 month sabbatical. Who knows? In any case, be very careful of what bridges you burn. I'll let you know if I figure it out...
You can 100% have kids.<p>Not only biologically but also There are thousands of younger 30ish women who'd see 0 problem have a kid with a mature 40 y.o. (rather than a 30 y.o. whos head is not there yet)<p>Of course you probably wont have the same relationship with your wife but thats your life, not hers. And if you wake up with panic attacks over kids you HAVE to do it or youll never forgive yourself in 10 / 20 years.<p>And if you feel guilty about reversing your decision to be childless, think that same way that you can give and take back consent any time, you have the right to change your mind anytime.
You talk about "not having children" as a decision that you alone made, not a joint decision with your wife. (I'm assuming from the mention of a biological window that your spouse is a woman). I don't know if this is just the way you worded it but the first thing you should do if you haven't already is discuss this with her. Does she want children now?<p>Others have pointed out that it's not necessarily too late biologically for a woman at 39 and I'd add my own experience to that - my wife had our children at 38 and 41, and we had no issues with either conception or pregnancy. So don't assume it's impossible.<p>If you are in a place where she doesn't want children now and you do though then that puts your relationship in a very difficult place and perhaps you should try couples counseling if you haven't already. If she's open to looking after children but doesn't want to (or can't) go through a pregnancy then there are other options like surrogacy or adoption which might be open to you. A good couples counselor should be able to help you discuss this in a way which is safe both of you.
With modern medicine, people are having children much older now. My mom was 38 when she got pregnant with me, and I have close friends who are 40 and 43 with newborns. So, the window has not closed.<p>As far as other people saying that children won't fill that void in your life - they could be wrong. I felt similar to what you describe, albeit much younger than the average new parent, and having a child <i>did</i> fill that need. That said, it brought up a new feeling of regret of having a child too young.<p>If you don't have children, it's not the end of the world. A child is fun, and I have had many giggles with mine, but I also have missed out on a lot of opportunity for pursuing and exploring passions that could also fill that hole. Given the added stress of and time consumed with children, I don't think I will have another. My husband and I have collectively agreed about the things that are important to us in life, and they are infinitely harder with a child.<p>All that to say, you know what choice is right for yourself and you still have time to make that choice.
The biggest thing missing in the post is <i>why</i>.<p>Why do you have anxiety? Why do you want kids? Why would you rather get cancer than not have a kid? Without some answer or investigation of these, we probably can't give you good advice. And these questions should be something your therapist is helping you explore already.<p>"I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and do bare minimum to not get fired. I 've gotten few promotions here and there but nowhere near my potential of where my career could've been. Everything is just secondary, nothing is interesting."<p>This can happen to people because they had kids too.
Are you sure? Women can have kids after 39. Maybe not easily, but should be <i>possible</i> until like 45. Definitely with medical assistance.<p>Is she on board though? If not, you don't need to stay with her. Your goals in life are worth more, and you don't want to resent her for the rest of your life "you're the reason I don't have kids and I regret it always"
I got married at 45, I now have 6 children. But children , just like having a spouse - as wonderful as they are -don’t make a life.
Others have pointed out trying to have children, or adopting, fostering - but you can also invest time in mentoring and supporting. Lots of busy families would love to have a couple give them a date night. Lots of kids would love to have a mentor - really high quality time without a lot of the hardship of responsibility. I know people who are unable to have children who have invested in others and have very rich relationships. It is not the same as having your own, but it can be amazing and deeply fulfilling
Get counseling. If writing this thread was enough to accelerate your pulse you are having anxiety and it will only get worse until it destroys your health.
Like a friend of mine once said approximately: Having a family or a wife is not the only goal in life one can have.<p>Some people are made for different purposes than the biological default activity. People can live great lives and never be in an (exclusive) relationship with any partner. People can do great work and advance humanity a little bit. They can be experts in their area of expertise and that can be already more valuable to society than another child.<p>Of course there are many sources of pressure or stereotypes all around us, suggesting to us, that a family is the ultimate thing to achieve and that we will all be perfectly happy if only we start a family.<p>A good friend of mine started a family and his stress levels are through the roof. Barely has time in his day to take care of anything else than children and work. So basically work^2.<p>Many people will also tout, that making a family was the best thing they ever did. However, studies show, that people are not necessarily happier after having kids and one explanation for this is, that it is not socially accceptable usually, to say things like: "Ah getting children was a mistake, I wish I had not done that.". People will paint you as asocial or worse, if you say those things. Also people need to justify their own past decisions to themselves and might really believe, that it was the best decision they made.<p>Aside from all that, adoption is still an option one can try. There are so many children in this world, who would benefit from being adopted, possibly becoming bright members of society. If you think you can love children, even if they are not of your own seed, then do consider adoption. I have a hunch, that it is not the making of a child, but its upbringing and the work invested in that, that makes parents love their children. It might also skip some of the most stressful times children go through. Of course adoption is not a thing done in a day. There are requirements.
If your spouse of the same opinion, that she wants kids than there are many options. If she doesn't want kids than this is a tougher problem to solve and I won't be able to advise on it. But let's assume she does.<p>1. Talk to a doctor and see if your wife would be able to bear a child. If doctor approves and your wife is ok with it, give it a shot. If you wife is not ok with having to go through a pregnancy in that age (which is totally understandable), then try #2.<p>2. If you are stuck on an idea of biological children you could try finding a surrogate mother who will bear your child for you. As far as I understand it is your sperm and your spouse's eggs are used, so the child will have your genes. This might be expensive, but is a good solution. Again, talk to a doctor about this possibility. Perhaps during the same visit as #1.<p>3. If for whatever reason, #2 is not an option, there is another option, which I honestly think should go as #2. Adoption. There are a lot of kids that have been abandoned by there parents. It is always heartbreaking to think about their lives. There are of course a lot of things to consider, but in the end I think it will be a win-win situation for all parties involved.<p>I'm sure there are more options that I didn't think about, so don't think that life is over. Kids or no kids, you will find a way to add meaning to your life. There is no need to leave your wife or get bad diseases, regardless of the outcome.<p>Just remember that everything will be fine.
Dude if you have anxiety and panic about not having kids, wait until you do have one. It’s never ending worry and anxiousness. If that’s your reason for it - don’t do it.
Does you spouse feel the same way? If yes, then you have still a chance. If I was you I wouldn't waste time and go to the next IVF clinic and get started. It's not cheap (~10k in total) but your spouse could literally get started with a weeks notice, and with a bit of luck you guys will have several eggs of hers retrieved, then fertilised on the same day with your sperm and hopefully a few embryos growing. By day 5 you'll end up with a hopefully a few mature eggs of which probably 2 (because of your spouse's age) will be put back into her. The whole procedure is super straight-forward and pain free. If you guys don't have any fertility issues apart from general risk of age then your chances are very good that at least one of the two eggs if not both will develop into a beautiful little baby. If you get started today then you can literally have a child 10 months later.<p>Source: my wife worked on the fertility clinic of an NHS hospital during her training and was fascinated by how easily this whole thing works and how far we've come to help struggling couples to get children.<p>EDIT:<p>Sorry I wanted to add one more thing. There are some quick suggestions floating around here that you could just find a new partner. I don't think that is as easy as people say. It takes time to build an emotional connection with someone strong enough for both people wanting to create kids together. You might waste another 2 years of your life to just find that person if not longer.<p>Also... unless your spouse is dead against children it's just plain disrespectful to her. She is also a human being who deserves happiness and you guys have found each other and if you love her and she is also open to having kids now then you should definitely try to have kids with her. Imagine you have a daughter one day who is 40 years old with a partner that wants kids. You wouldn't want that guy to treat your daughter the way others suggest here. Also, fathering children is a process, we don't like talking about it but there are many things which can go wrong. If I was you I wouldn't want to go through any painful issues with someone who I just met recently. If you and your spouse love each other you can support each other through whatever happens. That is important as well.
On hard constraints: You can have kids at 40 if your partner agrees. If your partner does not agree you need to figure out which one is more important to you, kids or your current relationship.<p>That said, are you sure you are otherwise ok? What you write sounds like you may be dissatisfied of your current life in other dimensions as well as not just "having kids". Please don't get kids just as a bandaid, if the motivation is that your life sucks and you imagine getting kids will make your life better - because it likely wont.<p>Speaking from experience - especially dreaming of an easy way out (I wish I had cancer) sounds like you may have mental health issues. When I was into clinical depression I used to dream of getting a disease and dying out. I really suggest you talk to a professional about these feelings.
Like other posters, I think there are other things going on here. Good on you for doing the work in therapy. Fix (or make serious progress on) those things before bringing a child into this world.<p>It isn't too late, biologically speaking, and wont be for a few years yet. In VHCOL coastal cities it is not unusual at all for couples to have first children at your age or a little later. But if you're burnt out at your job and having panic attacks walking by playgrounds you aint ready.
My sister had children at 39yo and 42yo (her husband older than that). It was all fine and pretty safe. With good medical support, it is not a problem for most women. Also, adoption is a pretty nice thing to do.
Here's a hot take: Having children just might turn out to be the worst thing that ever happened to you. What if your child turns out to have a rare and horrible disease, characterized by constant pain and suffering and where you spend all of your time and resources caring for them? What if your child has a mental illness and is constantly unhappy and hates you until the day you die? What if you and your partner split up and your partner makes it their full time job to poison your child's mind against you? What if it turns out that you actually hate having children and they make you crazy? Regret can go the other way as well.
Right now, more and more people in Gen-X and beyond are hitting their 40-50s having not had children and it will likely hit pretty hard. I think the best that we can/should do is maybe pass/share the relatable pieces on to the up and coming generations. It also doesn't help that there has been so much environmental poison and dietary trends that have deeply effected fertility, particularly in men.<p>At 47yo, I can relate... I have been married a couple times, and do have step-children. I sometimes grieve that I didn't get the chance to go through the earlier years with someone. At this point, I'm definitely not in a position to deal with very young children. I think it would have been nice to put more efforts into this while I was younger.<p>I would suggest finding a good place to do some volunteer work, which can help with getting past the funk and bringing some fulfillment into your life. Maybe seek counselling regarding any particular depression.
My wife and I missed out on having kids. We wanted kids but it "didn't happen". Yes, I used to also lie awake at night. My wife went through the demanding IVF schedule a couple of times. I admire her for that.<p>How do we cope?<p>I was a school teacher and now being a tutor has given me some interaction with teens. I am grateful for this.<p>My wife loves animals. I think our pets have given her something to cuddle and care for.<p>I think the only bonus to not having had kids is that we have missed out on the pain that friends have gone through when their child has died through an accident or health problem.
I'm getting some Handmaid's Tale vibes from some of the answers here.<p>Either adopt or figure out what do you expect from life, deep down. Then think about what you will expect at different stages as you age. Remember that you have changed expectations radically at least once. Self-change is a good thing, forget about integrity and focus on your desires.<p>You will die alone, most likely. Virtually all old people in retirement homes are disappointed by the lack of visits from their offspring.<p>We all mourn our lost childhood when we lose curiosity and playtime as we age. Having kids is one way to partially relive your childhood, and on the other side you get to be a mentor to someone who will actually listen to you, most of the time. These two things for example can also be fulfilled in different ways than having kids.
A lot of comments here dismissing OP but I’ll say this.
1) it’s really not too late. You’re older than most that have kids but it’s really not impossible. You can have a surrogate or adopt or still try natural and screen for abnormalities.
2) I think it’s quite rude and destructive to dismiss someone who is obviously depressed because they regret an irreversible life choice they made by saying they need to find inner peace. By far one of the most crushing situations in life is the sheer reality that no matter what you do you cannot turn back the hand of time. Telling OP he nees to find inner peace and needs to learn about himself before he can even think of having kids isn’t very helpful. It sounds like he has learned about himself and it sounds like he realized he’s made a decision he deeply regrets and is faced by thag every day. Of course he won’t have inner peace why should he? I think in the long arc of a life yes he’ll need to readjust his internal narrative and come to terms with his life but if he’s depressed because he dodsn’t have children in his life I’m inclined to believe him and the logical conclusion is that having kids can help. It’s not too late and OP should explore all the options out there if he is serious about this.
My wife and I cant have kids. Cancer medicine, they wouldn't give it to her at such a young age unless one of us was sterile. Mine was far easier.<p>I wrestle with this as well sometimes. I see myself turning into a Picard type, focusing on my work, my mentoring, my stoic demeanor, and being a secret, blubbering mess once a year when I see a Christmas tree in the neighbor's window. Then I'll tuck my shirt down, tell myself there's no time for such nonsense, and carry on.<p>A trick I use to fall asleep, when it's really getting to me, is to consider that there's a very good chance my hypothetical kid would be a jerk that doesn't like me.
It sounds like you have a lot more going on than just regret over not having children. I would wager that introducing kids to your life right now wouldn't magically fix everything else, either.<p>To be honest, this sounds like a mid-life crisis. Which is just another way of saying FOMO. We cannot do everything we dream of doing, we will not achieve every measure of success, there are absolutely going to be things you could have done but did not (for perfectly valid reasons!). Some of them you can do later, some you have to just accept are gone forever.
0. Don't beat yourself up. Mens' bilogical clocks tick later than womens'. If your wife wasn't excited about it then it makes sense you would just go along without children until you are 40. Also don't let anyone tell you that kids are just a "want" or something, if children are right for you, they're more than a "want".<p>1. Get some feedback from professionals about whether you are mentally healthy enough to make important decisions. If not, try to get healthy before proceeding. But the default will be for them to tell you to wait and see, which closes options for you and your wife. If you get the feeling they don't really care about you and they are just giving the easy answer ("another decade of therapy at $100/hr, then ask me again"), seek another opinion or try to assess the situation yourself. Everyone has some mental issues and sometimes you need to move on with your life.<p>2. If you believe children are right for you, talk to your wife and bring her for counseling. If she's not on board and doesn't get there quickly, consider whether you are really right for each other. You have 40 more years together. Divorces are easier without kids, and if she doesn't want kids, then she hasn't "wasted" her child-bearing years on you, so there will be less pain.<p>3. If she's on board, go to a fertility doctor without delay, even while still trying naturally.<p>4. If it doesn't work, then you have to consider what to do next. Sometimes, trying and failing gives you a new outlook, and you'll value the relationship you have with your wife more, and move on with other meaningful pursuits. But also perhaps not, and you may still need to consider starting over with someone else. But there's a risk you will end up alone or with a bad marriage, which is pretty common.<p>5. Consider religion in your life regardless of what happens.
@OP : Sorry to hear that you are suffering.
To give you a bit of perspective - I think couples who have kids will regret some bit of it. There are things that are inconvenient , there will be missed opportunities either way. So don't think that the feelings you have of regret will go away if you have kids.<p>It's a conscious choice: You can use IVF / adoption other means to have kid(s) but be aware that once you take the decision of having kid(s), you can't really go back even if you feel helpless,anxious etc:)<p>Signed,
Dad of two kids
Since this is Hacker News: Stallman's take on in this:<p>Why it is important not to have children.
<a href="https://stallman.org/articles/children.html" rel="nofollow">https://stallman.org/articles/children.html</a>
At the risk of being overly simplistic, why not go have kids then? If your partner is unable, you can adopts or have a surrogate. If your partner is uninterested, you can find a new partner.<p>I don’t have kids and don’t plan to. I know my partner is more interested, but not interested enough to actually have kids. I know we love each other deeply, but if they wanted a family and I absolutely didn’t, then love would be to help then find that, even if it wasn’t with me. For however incredibly painful that would be, I just can’t imagine preventing someone I love from something so foundational.<p>And ya know, it’s the 21st century so monogamy is not the only socially acceptable available arrangement for people who love each other.<p>You really need to start talking to your partner about this. It’s dishonest to withhold it.
There are so many horrible takes in this thread.<p>Quit complaining and focusing on the past get to work trying to have fucking kids! Stop wasting time on HN and go start spending that energy to try and get your partner pregnant.<p>Plenty of women have kids up into their late 40s. This woman had 3 after 40.<p><a href="https://www.todaysparent.com/pregnancy/pregnancy-health/i-had-three-kids-after-40/" rel="nofollow">https://www.todaysparent.com/pregnancy/pregnancy-health/i-ha...</a><p>You need someone to kick you in the ass to get your mind in the right place. I know plenty of women who have had healthy children at 45. Get off your computer and go get laid.
1. Not too late to have kids these days. Lower chances for sure, but not improbable.<p>2. Adoption is always an option.<p>3. Become a "big brother" or do some other kind of youth mentoring or teaching.<p>If your wife is not interested in kids of any kind, then #3 is your only option if you're going to stick together, and maybe mentoring and/or teaching is what you really want to do.
The solution for this is simple; have kids if you want to. There are woman of the same feeling, so you can have a baby in 1 year or like including preps, pregnancy and birth. If you feel like it is too late, 40 yo is never too old for having kids.<p>Alternatively, you can consider adopting a kid which will give you the exact same dad feelings.<p>Nothing to regret yet, just do it!
You can try adopting or sponsoring kids. There are literally millions of kids in poor countries who could use some help. Wanting to have your own kids is in some ways a biological instinct. A lot of childless women also feel it very strongly. So it's very natural to have such strong feelings. Therapy can also help in dealing with it.
> This was the single worst decision I've ever made in my whole life.<p>Trust me, you don't have any idea. You can't tell that until both you and your kids are dead.<p>Starting from the moment when your wife gets pregnant, when something strange shows up during the examination, through the trauma of birth, then colics, the first major illness when you have to spend nights with your kid in a hospital. If you are lucky, you never have to deal with anything more grave. But this is a random game. There is no guarantee your kid won't become the cause of your biggest worries in your life.
As others have said, if you're in reasonably good health, IVF is definitely an option for having kids. It could be good excuse to get that big enterprise job, as I know SalesForce offers IVF insurance as part of its comp.<p>Barring that, fostering is a possibility, but the requirements to do so and the ease of it vary on where you are. Fostering is not something to enter into lightly, but it seems to be highly rewarding. I have a friend adopting the child she fostered, it wasn't always easy, but she's very happy.
Huh?! These days you are perfectly capable of having kids at your age. In fact, it's not just these days, my grandfather and grandmother were in their mid-40s when they had my aunt. If you really don't believe me then I would recommend having a conversation with a doctor.
Here's an angle to try on - if you hate it, ignore it: Consider the selfishness of your desire. Going by how you mention families with young kids, it seems what you want to do is call a person into existence solely for your amusement and pleasure. To cause someone to be subjected to life with all its struggles (such as you are experiencing now), for 80 years or so, because you want to have fun playing with them while they are a kid and experience the ego-fulfilment of having a kid be amused by you. It can go further: Since you don't consider adoption it seems like you're invested in specifically creating somebody to be an extension of yourself, maybe so that you sort of 'live forever'. If someone brought me into the world specifically by that hubris, saddling me with a life that I have to work to maintain so that I don't experience huge suffering, then I would probably hate them.
1. It is absolutely not too late, very slightly higher risk for autism and a higher risk for your wife, but very possible.<p>2. There is adoption and fostering, it’s seriously important<p>3. I’d unpack this with your wife and a therapist and not HN. Kids don’t fix what is broken, they amplify it. Further, if things aren't right, you’re not only screwed up but you can screw them up. ‘Expectation’ is kind of a dirty word for marriages and families, if you’ve made choices and expected things to be different you have to be open to the idea that your expectations weren’t yours to have, there are other people involved and you love them and want them to be what they are and not your idea or fantasy of what they should be. If the idea of it having kids was to live a certain way (travel, have money, etc..) Understand that kids are a never ending life of service, but it feels good.
I suggest removing the heart-rate functionality from your watch. It appears to be crystallizing your perception of your anxiety.<p>It sounds like a classic midlife crisis. The good news is, we don't have to do all those things our families and cultures conditioned us to strive for. We can be happy without all of that.
I have a bit to say about this.<p>First, having kids is THE BEST thing I ever did with my life. Your mileage could/may vary.<p>Assuming you can get your spouse on-board:<p>1) YOU ARE NOT PAST THE WINDOW! My wife was 40 when we had our first kid. 41 for the second. Many other parents at our kids' school are similar. Some used IVF, others did not. IVF, while unpleasant, is covered by many insurance plans.<p>2) As others have said, you can foster, adopt or use a surrogate.<p>If you cannot get your spouse on-board for trying something, then you might consider leaving them. My ex-wife and I had been trying (then 30M, 28F) without success. Our inability to conceive was one of the reasons that I left her. She now has kids with another man and I now have kids with another woman, so it all worked out. I know this is rough, but it is also a possible solution.<p>Good luck and I'm sorry that you are suffering.
I've got kids.<p>I had my first kid at 37, so it isn't too late for you.<p>Having kids DEFINITELY isn't rosey. Easily, the most challenging thing I've ever faced. What you write about anxiety, panic attacks, etc. I've had all those things and attribute them directly to the life choices I've had to make since having kids. Having kids means you are subject to scrutiny as a parent like nothing you have ever experienced as a software developer, especially from people close to you, your spouse, her/his parents, extended family.<p>I would say: get a life coach. You could have kids if you wanted to, but are probably blocked from it beyond just the circumstances. If you go down that path, you'll figure that why, and even if you don't have kids, you'll find why you do or don't want to be happy.
Was in a similar situation re: biological age, just some anec-data for you:<p>1) You and your spouse most likely can still have children assuming you two are in reasonable health with no serious fertility issues; age is less of an issue with today's medical tech. My spouse and I had our first child at a simlar age to you two.<p>2) Sounds like you have burnout/depression/something-else. Consider getting help from a professional (therapist)?<p>3) For me, parenthood is cool, tiring, and rewarding, but definitely not an endpoint of personal fulfillment. With all the socio-cultural changes of our times, our sense of self, identity, and value should enrich our families, and not be predicated upon society's value towards being a giving/sacrificing parent unit.
OP, my mum was 44 and my dad 49 when I was born - they were great parents and they both admit having me kept them young. I lost my mum this year due to vascular dementia but my dad is still going strong at 89 and in better health than many 20 years younger.
if you think your life is shit now, wait till you have an unpaid second job as a babysitter.<p>Seriously, whatever you think of kids, one thing is absolutely true: it's hard, it's very hard. Not in a poetic sense, but simply in terms of man-hours you will have to come up with.<p>Unless you live in a traditional patriarchal society, but if this were the case, you would probably have had several kids by now
> <i>My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less.</i><p>Not necessarily. My wife was in her late 30s when we had our (and her, and my) first kid, and just shy of 40 when we had our second. Yes, older mothers are at somewhat-greater risk of things like Down's Syndrome, but both our kids are now in their early 30s, quite-normal adults with S.O.s of their own.<p>So talk to your wife — and (as Dear Abby always says) also talk to a licensed mental health professional as well: As others have noted, you might well have something else going on <i>that you're interpreting as</i> regret over childlessness.
I know a man who never had kids but wanted them. He runs a martial arts school. He gets to mentor a lot of kids. It’s like he didn’t get to be a dad, but he got to have more grandkids than anyone I know.<p>There are many ways to “have kids.” But know this: no one outside of you can fix what’s happening inside of you. The feeling of loss and envy you are experiencing may not be what it appears. Often times our brains disguise painful thoughts we are unwilling to experience as something else. This might be a good time to talk things through with a therapist or a best friend or at least someone with whom you can open up.
You can still have children, in a polygamous arrangement. It can be done if you are willing to pay and perhaps travel. Your spouse will hopefully understand. The window hasn't closed, that is an incorrect assumption.
<i>> My life is now dominated by regret every day.</i><p>I am sorry to hear that. 40/39 isn't actually too late, but risks are higher. Adoption is a big deal, and I know many "late bloomers" that have gotten married in their 30s and 40s (sometimes, for the second or third time), and adopted, or had kids.<p>I never had any biological children, but I married a woman with a daughter, so I have a stepdaughter.<p>Regrets? A bit, but not that much. It's a long story, but I have extracurricular interests that probably exercise some of the emotions and drives that parents of biological children have.
Some people think you should be grateful that you didn't make the "mistake" of having kids and that it's not worth it. It's the biggest taboo in our society but a lot of parents regret it. For some reason you decided not to have one in the first place and that same reason is probably still true. It feels like you've fallen into "the grass is always greener" trap and only sees the upsides because you think it's too late, completely forgetting why you didn't want a kid to begin with.
Tech job conditions are the problem, not having kids.<p>Do you want good reasons to not have kids?<p>- The future for them does not look promising at all<p>- Enjoy your life and travel anywhere, change job anytime, change location any moment<p>- Sleep whenever you want<p>- Use any drugs you want (even just weed is an issue with kids under 18)<p>- Start any hobby or job any time you want<p>- Buy an house without be worried to be homeless<p>- No guilt for be responsible of their life, of any problem they face, any transmitted genetic issue you may find later on<p>- If you have no family or relatives or friends to make your kids know, share and play with, it's pretty much like not having kids at all
What's your wife opinion on it ? If she wants them too, then it's not too late to try. Yes, there are more risks but the window is not totally closed. If you can't or won't conceive, then adoption is always a possibility no matter your age.<p>If your wife doesn't want kids, I'm afraid that you will have to make a difficult decision either way. But, you can still become the cool uncle if there are kids in your family: take them to trips, attraction parks, movies,... and offer the parents a deserved break.
Maybe another perspective on your circumstance might help? You talk about your regret as though, had you made the decision, a child would have been a given. That may not have been the case. For many people this is what they have come to terms with.<p>I don't know if this is a possibility for you and your partner, but if you want children in your life, maybe they are there already and would appreciate you being a bigger part of their lives? Uncles, aunts, nieces, and nephews are amazing. Often times very close.
What do prefer?<p>Giving up on having kids and staying with your partner, trying to cope with regret.
I bet the regret alreay takes a toll on the relationship and the probability is high that the relationship ends in a divorce either way. (Divorce statistics in your region?)<p>Divorce and find a younger and religious woman ready to have many kids.
You might lose some friends and people might turn away considering your behavior selfish. But you would gain a family and that would be your world.<p>It is not too late to correct a mistake.
This was one of the issues that brought my last relationship to an end (being 39y now).<p>I used to downplay it and together with my partner tried to find a way.<p>Anyway, this sounds like a relationship issue. If your partner does not want kids it's possible that some kind of decision is needed (that's what our couples therapist said which turned out to be real good advice in my case).<p>If she can't have kids - there are other ways like adoption,...<p>If this is impacting you as much as it sounds - find a way to get yourself a child!
Have kids, would recommend :-) As far as I can tell, adoptive parents are just as happy as biological ones. And as a guy, you can easily have biological children through IVF and surrogacy. If it's important for your wife to carry the baby and/or have it be biologically related to her, there are medical options for that as well.<p>Now in terms of broader happiness, you got to realize that it's mostly a physical condition and you can't talk yourself into it through therapy. Having kids is also not a one in all solution. You got to do regular physical workouts, be in nature frequently and maintain social connections beyond your immediate family. All of these things are also important for good parenting.<p>Do not assume that you have to spend all your time coding just because you used to, you probably know enough that the challenge is gone. Find some other hobby, ideally with your spouse so that you can reestablish your connection and discuss these kind of concerns with her rather than random geeks on hacker news.<p>Also get a dog, but a calm kind that you would not be scared to have around eventual baby. All in one exercise, nature exposure, hobby, bonding with spouse and a taste of greater responsibility so you can decide if you are up for even more. Take heart, it does get better!
My uncle had a child later in life, such that I have a cousin who's younger than my youngest, so, to repeat what a lot of others are saying: it's not too late.<p>My sister had a child in her late 30's (maybe 37 or 38), and before she got pregnant was actually spiralling into depression because she was having trouble getting pregnant. And whilst this kid is a bundle of potential ADD energy, he's also very bright and intelligent. Again, it's not too late.<p>However, fantasising about fatal illnesses doesn't point to a stable mental state, and raising a child, properly at least, requires almost inhuman mental and emotional stability (although plenty of people raise kids with wildly volatile emotional and mental states).<p>It also sounds as if you're fantasising about a 'solution' to your life, and have fixated upon having children as this solution. It sounds to me (and I've been known to be wrong on every level possible) as if you need to rediscover the joy of living and the uniqueness and diversity of the world / universe by experiencing more of it.<p>Being able to find enjoyment in life will also make you a better parent by way of example.
This is sad to read. I am almost as old as you - 41, and I had a kid when 40, and my wife 36. The kid has been the greatest thing to have happened to me on a personal level, after we got married 8 years ago. We struggled a little but persisted and eventually got there.<p>I remember a conversation with the doctor who helped us - when you want to bring a kid into this world, especially when you're having trouble doing so, you have to want to do it 120% - you should never be short on will.<p>If you are regretting your earlier decision to not have kids, recognize that you have changed, and make the subtle shift in your mind to want to have a child. Dream about the boy/girl and what kind of life you'll build around him/her, and what you and your partner will do for them and with them. The dreams will spur you to action and the action will shape your dream into reality. Good luck.
A lot of people are saying "you sound depressed, fix that before you have kids", but to me, it sounds like you're depressed--like you say--because you think you missed your opportunity to have kids.<p>This isn't abnormal, some people I know quite well had intense anxiety at the prospect of being infertile, and I know a few others who have struggled with depression when that turned out to be fact. It's a big loss to grieve, so I think your feelings here are valid.<p>I also agree with the commenters here who say you should check with your partner, and if they're game go see a fertility specialist. Being on the same page here is important: at her age she'll be high-risk, and the possibility of pregnancy/delivery being harder increases substantially, as well as the possibility of birth defects, etc. It sounds abstract, but what this translates into is intense pain for months, and abortions if things go wrong. The stakes are pretty high.<p>But that said, I wish you the best of luck! The door may not be closed to you two and it's worth checking into.
I sympathise. I left it too late as well. I have some regrets from not being a Dad.<p>But I also find it freeing: my life is about me. The pressure to breed, to achieve, to do what others expect recedes. Nothing matters. I am not going to pass on my genes, or leave a legacy, or even any footprints. I'm atheist so I don't even believe in any afterlife. When I die, that's it, everything is over and there's nothing left behind. It's very freeing. All I have left is what I want to do in my life, for me. I'd like to build my own house, marry my girl, travel to every continent on the planet, build a successful business. But if I don't, it doesn't matter too much. My purpose in life now is to enjoy it.<p>I suspect your really strong reaction to this is a symptom of something else going on. I've lost 10 years of my life to depression, so I know something about this. But not enough to do anything but recommend you continue seeking help. And reassure you that this is only temporary (like everything in life) and it will pass.<p>Good luck with it.
If therapy only helps for a little bit go to a different therapist!<p>Try six or a dozen, try "weird" ones, just keep going to different therapists until you find one who works for you. Give each one time, a month or two max, but if they haven't been able to help you within a handful of weeks, move on to the next one.<p>There's a huge variety of kinds of therapy and therapists vary wildly.
You know if your wife doesn’t want kids and that’s now a dealbreaker to you, you have every right to leave. She’s 39, she’ll get over it and young kids aren’t there who will be adversely affected. Yes you’ll go through pain, but <unpopular opinion trigger> having kids is one of those biological processes that is deeply ingrained in our being as you now rightly realize. </><p>You can still find someone who wants to have kids. You might go through a bit of heartache with your current spouse unless she comes around. But you’ll get over it and you will have more than enough time to raise a family. And it is your right to do so if you want to.<p>All the best.
Perhaps it’s a personal thing, but I clearly remember that after we had our first child I realized that I would have loved an adopted child just the same. I wasn’t of that opinion before that, but an honest word if my wife would tell me now that the kid is not mine, I’d probably show her the door, but would make every effort to keep my children ;)
The best time for women to have children is (for most women) probably in their 20s. The best time to become a father is (for most men) probably in their 40s. This is an extremely unpopular opinion, although that doesn't make it incorrect. Instead we have millions choosing what amounts to genetic suicide. Of course this is also their prerogative.
We are all different.<p>I decided to not have children and it was the absolute best decision of my life. I would just have hated to have had children. For many reasons, not just one.<p>I've known it from a very young age, about 13 or 14 years old, and I've never had any regrets whatsoever. Maybe the slightest pang every 2 or 3 years, for about 10 minutes. Then it goes away fast and I don't think about it for another few years.<p>Best single decision of my life.<p>Also, the worst thing that a person can do in terms of climate change, by far the worst thing, is to have a child. Far worse than having a car that burns 8 miles to the gallon or basically anything.<p>But as others have said, this sounds more like a mental health/mental illness situation. You 100% should see a therapist. for sure.
FWIW, I married into a prefab family and raised step children until they graduated high-school when I was about 39. I was "not sure" I wanted kids of my own, to be honest I was somewhat intimidated by small children, so this worked out fine.<p>It was then my wife, who was then 44 and I had our first together, and it was and is wonderful. The way you mention age implies something that may or may not be true in your specific situation - e.g. 40-45 is not automatically too old. Being older and more stable did make certain things about having kids (again) easier and more enjoyable.<p>And many young couples who aren't able to have children too do adopt. It's something to consider.<p>I found having youngsters in the house made us both feel young again. Tired, but young again :)
It's not too late for your spouse to have children, unless they don't want to or have health issues preventing them from doing so. Talk to your spouse. Adoption is also an option if your spouse is open to that. Can't advice you on the future of your relationship, that's for you to sort out.
Nobody has suicidal ideation just because they're 40 and haven't had kids yet. You have depression and anxiety, and it probably has nothing to do with kids. Get on some anti-depressants, and do Cognitive Behavioral Therapy. Try mushrooms. If that still doesn't work, try ECT. But don't give up.
IIRC, 42 is around the age where the window closes, at least, that's what my physician told me. Regardless, if that gap has closed, it may be some consolation to bring this up to your friends and relations who are on the fence about having kids. Everybody's chuffed to tell others about how they made the right choice for them. Rarely, does one hear from another with the courage to say "I changed my mind, and wish I'd taken another path", particularly in the having-kids domain. When I hear your comments above and think "Is this suffering rooted in a desire to contribute to others?" If so, consider telling those you love and respect about your choice and its consequences. Especially tell those who have the potential to have kids - and be a support system in their lives.
I understand that this is very important for you (being a parent has changed me, in many ways) but it sounds like there's something else going on in your case.<p>The fact that you are getting anxiety attacks (or close to) because of this regret should be looked into. If you end up having children of your own (adopted or otherwise) know that they <i>will</i> make your stress levels go up, and you <i>will</i> worry about them and they will be a source of nuisance and bother a lot of the time. So better take care of that anxiety first.<p>Even if you end up not having children, living with anxiety is miserable.<p>So, get that looked up. I don't know you enough to recommend switching to a different therapist, but I can tell you it helped (still helps) me. In your case perhaps something other (a priest, or a coach) might be more appropriate.
Sounds like a classic mid life crisis to me. Although you don’t have a way to actuate your fantasy so you’re getting depressed. Since having a kid (adoption in your case) is more serious than buying a sports car, I’d really suggest seeking therapy first to make sure it is something you really want. You’re not too old to adopt if you decide to.<p>Take it from someone on the other side - I frequently envy my 40 year old colleagues without kids. They travel, focus on their hobbies, and generally do what they want and seem happier and less stressed out. They have more money and drive nicer cars and have nicer, neater houses.<p>Kids are a major self sacrifice - you give up vast quantities of personal time and opportunities. It is a large trade off.
>My life is now dominated by regret every day. I just can't get over that feeling. I've tried many things like therapy, counseling ect. It only helps for a little bit but I am still doing therapy. Some nights I wake up with panic and stay up all night with shallow breathing and high heart rate.<p>Imagine there's 3 giant luggages of your life, full of VHS tapes made out of lead(heavy). You know what's on those video tapes, its every experience in your life. There's tapes of the time you went over your bike handlebars. There's your wedding. Every bad and good memory in your history is in there.<p>The first luggage is labelled 'the past', this is the biggest and heaviest. >10,000lbs. A collected works of your entire life is going to be big and heavy.<p>The second luggage is labelled 'future' where every time you imagine something about the future it shows up in there. 99% of the time none of this ever happened. If you have an active imagination this luggage might be heavier than the first one; but generally it's big and heavy on average. Everyone imagines what the future may hold.<p>The third luggage is labelled 'today' and as you can imagine this is the only luggage small enough for you to handle. It gets heavier through the day but totally manageable.<p>You get to pick which one you get to move each day after you wake up. Can you imagine how exhausted you will be if you attempt to move the past or the future all the time? You can move only 1 luggage at a time, you can't handle more than 1. Don't try.<p>You also probably are doing even worse. You probably are trying to haul the past and future luggages at the same time and in so doing leaving the easiest one behind.<p>Here's how much easier it is to haul 'just today'. You wake up. You're not allowed to think about the past and certainly don't try to be nostradamus and predict something in the future. You may only deal with today and basically as things show up for you to do. You do them.
It's not too late to have children. My sister is 42 and had a wonderful little miracle happen around the same time that my wife (31) was pregnant with my son. She turned out fine and perfectly healthy. You can also always adopt.<p>I just want to say you should definitely deal with the depression first. Having children is that single hardest thing you will ever do and being depressed will only make it harder. Continue therapy (even if it feels like it's not working - that's the depression - and it's a process not a magic cure), maybe even medication for a bit, start "planning" and giving yourself something to look forward to and towards and that will help with the depression because then your life will also have a direction to go in.
New father AND son of a father who was a foster child (and I have the last name to prove it.)<p>1. Have conversations with your doctors, 39 isn't too late. Begin the process and see where it takes you.
2. Adoption / Foster care is incredible on its own and you can be apart of breaking a cycle of abandonment and loss for a child. I could not be the father I am today if my father's foster parents didn't show up and give him the care he needed.<p>Finally, get involved with the children of your friends and community. Before we had our son we were serving with our childrens youth ministry and volunteering to help watch our friend's kids when their babysitters couldn't help them. It's eye opening and something I think every human should do.<p>My best to you on your journey!
Just to put it out there, my mother was 38 when she had me, and 40 when she had my brother. When I was younger, I babysat a kid who's mom was 42 when he was born. It's not that there aren't possible complications, but the window isn't "closed"
Putting aside whether the biological window has closed for your 39-year-old wife -- it sounds like the decision to not have children is a huge point of regret and constant second-guessing. Can I ask why/when you made that decision, generally? What's changed since then versus now at the age of 40 -- have circumstances changed to make having children more amenable or less tenable now?<p>But if it's possible (financially) for you to have kids now -- why isn't adoption a possibility? Your post reads as if you were in the final years of life, rather than mid-life, when you have the perspective and means to make that big change you put off until now.
Hi. I know you are going through a lot. I went through cancer two times and was told I could never have children again due to the excessive chemo before transplant etc. It was a very hard time for me mentally as children were always something I wanted deeply.<p>I was talking with someone about this and he said to me, what defines a child as your son or daughter? Maybe think about this for a while and then talk with your spouse about what reasons she doesn't want a child? Maybe it is a fear of childbirth, maybe she doesn't want to nurse, or deal with a 3 year old. There are many young wonderful children at all ages that could use a loving father and mother.
Window is not closed at 39/40. Of course, risks are higher, but you should consider the balance of risks vs regrets. It's NOT too late.<p>(says someone some years older than you and who got a 4th baby 2 months ago with a wife same age as yours)
I know a few couples that had kids in their mid to late 40s. I believe it was always via an egg donor or via eggs frozen earlier in the woman’s life though.<p>Men fertility declines slower than women generally. Men are good to 50 or later usually but there are always exceptions. There is rising risks of things like austism but I think all of that is after 40 generally and rises slowly as age increases.<p>If your goals are not the same as your partners then maybe your partnership has run its course. Shared values and goals is why couples stay together. Money, and kids are two of the big major shared goals and if yours have truly changed then well.
I know what you feel, man! I'm on your tracks right now (although, for a bit different reasons) and already getting scared.<p>I think kids are possibly the best investment you can make. But I'm always like "no, I'm not quite ready, not enough funds, no decent apartment, no time to have a girlfriend, etc.". Damn... you dug up my own fears once again. If you or your wife are having health problems, consider possible alternative methods. I've heard people had infertility problems solved by switching to healthy food and using tesla-like healing coil technology (really cheap).
What are you even talking about, plenty of people have kids at that age… I thought the post was going to be about being 60 or something. Stop whining and go do something about it if it means that much to you.
You're 40. Times have changed. Most people used to get children in their 20s, nowadays it's probably more 30s. If you really want to have a child, nothing stops you from having one (or two) now.
3 of my 4 kids were all born with my wife being 38 or older. Youngest son born when my wife was 44. 2 of those 3 were not even planned. They're all healthy.<p>Stop freaking out, it's not too late.
Having kids means:<p>You can't enjoy life normally anymore. Oh, you went on a european tour to appreciate some architecture? Well that's too bad. Little Josh will want all the attention. You had twins? Haha good luck with literally everything. The only gazing you will do is when you look at the night sky after you've put them to sleep wondering how good it would have been without children in your life.<p>Having them, or not having them. It is bad either way. Just cherish the life you've had so far thanks to not having children.
> My life is now dominated by regret every day. I just can't get over that feeling. I've tried many things like therapy, counseling ect. It only helps for a little bit but I am still doing therapy. Some nights I wake up with panic and stay up all night with shallow breathing and high heart rate.<p>I deal with it as follows:<p>* Everyone is my child, I may have not birthed them, but I can have a parental feeling to just about anyone (person, animal, group etc.) in general. When a chance presents itself to give/contribute, do it.
sorry but this sounds pathological. Why do you want kids? "My job is not fun" can't be a reason, and if you have such levels of anxiety without kids , you 'll probably have a heart attack with kids. There are pathological cases of people (usually women) who are harassing kids out of such misguided 'longing'. Just calm down and think about what is it that makes you believe you want it so much. Is it peer pressure, hanging out with parents , you really like kids etc
It's my understanding that there's greater risk the higher the age, but instead of asking random strangers, I recommend speaking to your primary care doctors and also finding a doctor that manages pregnancies. They can inform you of the risks and mitigation strategies. As far as I know, it is not too late.<p>Secondly, you should absolutely find a therapist (edit: missed that you're doing that already), perhaps one that specializes in these issues, and also a psychiatrist to help manage your anxiety.
Existential: I am glad you are still doing therapy. Have you talked to a psychiatrist? That may be helpful in your situation.<p>Tactical: Do you have any family or friends or house of worship kin with kids? Offer to take them out to do something fun - go to the playground, go on a hike, go rollerskating. The best part of “other people’s kids” is you can give them back once you’ve spoiled them.<p>Check out hedy.org and go to your local library and offer to teach kids to code. All it takes is a web browser.
Um you can still have kids. You might have poisoned your thoughts that your wife isn't an "optimal" age for having kids, but, believe me, you can still have them.
I was 41 when I had my son, and my wife was nearly 45. It's certainly not too late.<p>I'm not clear if your wife definitely can't have kids, or if she doesn't want them.
39 is most definitely not an impossible age for women to have to children. I know several people who did and even a couple of years older. Of course, assuming "normally" healthy adults for everything else ("normally" in quotes because you don't have to be the healthiest, fittest person to have a successful pregnancy). You might want to consult with a fertility Dr. before, to make sure you do all the right things.
> My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children<p>There are many women who have had children well into their 40s. Yes, it's more risky at that age but it's not impossible. In the age of modern medicine there's no [medical] reason not to try. However, you should really consider carefully as pointed out in the top comment by luxurytent whether having children will really be as fulfilling to you as you think it will be.
This is not about kids. You are mentally ill in a serious way. The the therapy you have gotten so far is either incompetent or you are so sick that you need time in an institution where your tragedy can be treated seriously.<p>I know a number of people who chose not to have children. Some have some level of regret but nobody is going through the kind of dysfunction you are.<p>You have a lot of years left.<p>(Also, please do not adopt or otherwise have a child until you are healthy again.)
"My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less."<p>No it hasn't. I just had a baby and my wife is 40. We did have 2 other kids earlier though. But age is not necessarily the issue so don't make that an excuse. If you want to have kids, have them whenever you are ready. Even if the biological clock has run out, you can always adopt if you really want.<p>Have you actually discussed this in detail with your spouse ?
Hey mate - don't give up. My daughter was born when my wife was 40, and is now a healthy 16 year old.<p>Failing that - look into surrogacy or adoption. All kids are a blessing.
Do you have siblings with children? Become the cool uncle!<p>Teach them to properly build treehouses, make their own bows and arrows, do skateboard tricks, handle guns, climb trees/rooftops, do parkour, and all that crazy stuff their moms wouldn't allow. Depends on what you're into, of course.<p>You will get to experience them at their best, but won't have to stand them at their worst. That's when you just hand them back to their parents.
It sounds like you're burned out at work more than you want to have children.<p>If you really wanted children like you say, you'd become a foster parent, spend every free moment as a school volunteer (they're desperately needed), get involved in youth sports, sign up for every youth activity at your local church, and so on.<p>You can mentor and have excellent experiences with children that are not your biological descendants.
From a/my latino perspective ... you (as an individual) are not too old to procreate ... your wife ... maybe.... but if I were you... would try to have a couple babies Now! dont pay attention to the doctors regarding the issue of age and having/making babies...(Nature cannot be wrong) just try and try and keep trying ! the latino way. Buena Suerte.
You can mentor people. You can adopt. You can foster a child. You can engage with your community. You could be a boy scout leader. There are lots and lots of ways to engage with kids that aren't "biologically yours". Technically my oldest son is a child I adopted and I never actually think that he's adopted. He is simply my son.
Volunteer at an organization that serves children and families. Given the trajectory of your wants (from extreme avoidance to extreme regret) probably what you really would like is flexible time nurturing another generation. Many people other than parents may have a special influence in a child's life. Try being that inspirational nonparent mentor and friend, see how that feels.
Absolutely keep going with therapy. The healing journey might take years, but that's perfectly ok. The worse your mental health issues, the longer that journey takes.<p>Also, consider adoption. Chances are there are MANY unfortunate kids out there who need a loving home. Just don't think of your adopted kid as the child of a stranger. It will be your own child in every conceivable way.
I'm no expert on this but I am pretty sure they can take your and your wife's reproductive cells and implant them in a surrogate mother, so it would really be "your" kid for both you and your wife, genetically. (There might be developmental issues with removing the baby from the woman who gave birth to it, but I don't know enough to comment there.)
Unfortunately, it’s much easier said than done, but I do believe that the best way of dealing with issues is to take action. One action you can take is to look into an adoption. 40 and 39 is very young. There are many countries in the world where you can adopt a child. It will take lots of work, but this is one thing you could consider doing.
It's not too late for either of you. Check IVF. Quality of your sperm goes down with age, IVF can select the better sperm and fertilize with a good egg. Your wife still have plenty of eggs. You can take decisions around surrogacy etc. based on other health factors. But I personally know plenty of couples who are having kids in their 40s
We took family from Ukraine for 2.5 months, mother and 5 years old daughter. We already have a 5-year-old son. Furthermore, we got really attached to that little girl. Afterwards, we started an adoption course. In my opinion, you still have a chance for biological children or adoption, It is just matter of putting some effort.
The most rewarding part of being a parent is also the scariest: realizing that you will have a powerful and indelible impact on someone for whom you wish only wonderful things.<p>Many parents aren't cut out for this challenge. But you can embrace it without being a parent - there are loads of ways to try to make a positive impact in kids' lives.
If you get butterflies about what it could have been, perhaps try to have offsprings or adopt. You shouldn't discount adoption particularly if your wife is open. It's not too late, really it is not.<p>There is true joy to be had by loving someone unconditionally and I have found that nothing else in my life fills me up as my daughter's hug.<p>Best of luck
Not sure if it helps but consider that you may not have enjoyed the path you didn't take as much as you think you would.<p>It is possible that you would have resented the inability to work the way you actually did with all sorts of long lasting negative effects.<p>Accept that decisions made by younger you were appropriate for that person and move on.
You’re wrong, women can have children naturally up to 42 and even after that with hormone therapy. If your spouse says no, you clearly should leave her*(I assume) and find a partner who does want children. It’s not a small compromise to not have kids and the resentment will kick in and you’ll likely break up anyway.
My wife had our first child at 38 and second at 40. Friends have had kids at 44 and 48. Dr in SF said sees a lot of people having kids in their 40s.<p>It's great unless you or your wife have a specific medical condition you can sill have kids. We didn't need IVF, but have many friends that have used it very successfully.
This is meant sincerely, because I went through the same reflections when i was 35, and the following worked beyond well for me.<p>Adopt either kids or a couple rescue pets. There are people who will remark it's not equivalent, but you really may find it's a very distinct version of satisfying and wholesome.
I have three kids. I don't get to see them nearly as much as I want to. I live in another state. I moved here to start a business after I separated with their mother about 3 years ago. Now I regret almost everyday. I live in fear of the world they'll grow up in, and I miss them terribly.
Dad of two here. Kids are great in all the ways you note and in ways that continue to surprise. They're also a righteous pain in the ass and generally throw a monkey wrench into your other goals and interests.<p>"I used to LOVE working and all things tech, now just make do and ..." ME TOO!
You can still have kids with your spouse. If she really doesn't want to then break up with her and find a woman who does. There are loads of attractive women in their 30s searching for a man to have kids with.<p>Disagreement about weather to have kids is a 100% acceptable reason to break up.
My girlfriend and I had a baby daughter (our first) last year. When she was born, I was 41 and she was 39 (conceived when I was about to turn 41 and she was 38).<p>I thought we were late and it’d be hard at our age, but she got pregnant not even after a month after starting trying.<p>So yes you’re not too late.
Think that it might be bad for yourself, but good for your kids because you didn't force them to enter this fucked up world for your own benefit. Speaking as someone who hates being born, and there are countless like me, and you can't know in advance.
Get a second wife. I’m not even kidding, this is an available solution to your problem. You can even move to a place where polygamy is legal to register it. Then you can have a relationship with both wives and support them and have kids with the younger one.
Adopt. My brother was in a similar situation and he was even older than you. It would eat him up. He'd hit the goals he wanted to hit in his career and finances and there was now nothing else to look forward to.<p>Him and his partner adopted a child. Never seen him happier.
Why not adopt? I have several friends who were adopted by slightly older couples and it was the greatest thing that happened to their life. They see their supportive parents as their "real" parents and are really grateful they were adopted.<p>It's not too late!!!
My mom was 35 when I was born, and that was over 30 years ago. I think my grandmother was 39 when my dad was born, and that was over 70 years ago. There's still a possibility for conception unless you didn't explain in your post.
39 isn't too old to have a child. Yes, some of the risk factors are higher but it can reasonably be done and lots of people have done it.<p>You can also adopt.<p>Talk to your spouse and figure out how to dive in. You were meant to be a father, don't miss out.
Look at the bright side, at least you are not an indentured servant to some lady who got pregnant and left you.<p>One of my friends is literally paying for the house his ex-wife brings boyfriends home to.<p>:: shrug :: Things could be worse.<p>If it really means that much to you...adopt ?
40 yr old? I doubt I am going to be economically ready for reproducing (capable of putting kids in a good school while also sponsoring enough free time for myself) before 50 yet I feel almost sure I am going to have kids.
It's a very tough scene, especially if you can't handle the fact that once you've see your kid, you realize you could have seen him or her 20 years ago. It's a really fucking tough scene.
A friend of mine became father and grandfather just a few days apart at the age of 50. When my younger son was born, me and my wife were 37. There is a good chance your biological window is still wide open.
Find some way to give back. Cut back on job hours, volunteer somewhere, help people learn software, whatever.<p>Spend time with your spouse, see if you can given them something they’ve wanted for a long time.<p>Think about adoption.
First you guys need to talk to someone professional with experience in mental health issues around fertility.<p>Second 40 is not too old.<p>There are options like IVF with or without a donor etc…<p>I know many women who got pregnant and had babies over age 40.
You need to find <i>logos</i>. I can be a children or not. Have you every been involved in any volunteering project or movement (not involving coding in isolation), some cause that help other people?
My wife was 40 when we had our first and 43 when we had our second. Both healthy and bright. No windows have closed, but if you really feel like you can't then you should consider adopting.
See a fertility Doctor. Surrogacy is a thing as is IVF, I don't think you're aware of how far these techniques have come. The window for biological children is certainly not closed.
Some really good people have been childless through no fault of their own. And choices have consequences for ourselves and others.<p>BUT, my religion teaches that losses or failures in this life can be fully made up in the unending next life, if we start making the necessary good choices and do our very best to continue forward. It also promises peace in this life and eternal life (with and like our Father) in the world to come, conditioned on our obedience.<p>I have high confidence in the religion (The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints) due to a long list of reasons which I have written, including personal experience, that constitute sufficient "proof" for me.<p>(With any downvotes, thoughtful comments are appreciated.)
Leave your spouse and find someone to have children with. This is honestly brutal advice but it isn't fair to your spouse or you to be living with such spiritual attrition.
My brother had a healthy child when his wife was 42. I think it's unlikely that the window has closed forever, unless doctors have told you so because of a specific medical reason.
You can always try 1) IUI (basically a series of options to help your wife getting pregnant with your sperm) and 2) adopt kid.<p>Please discuss with your wife and work out a solution. Does she want a kid?
To take a different perspective,<p>I try to remember some argue we've overshot population: <a href="https://scientistswarning.forestry.oregonstate.edu/sites/default/files/Crist2022.pdf" rel="nofollow">https://scientistswarning.forestry.oregonstate.edu/sites/def...</a> , and honestly get leary at seeing how friends are raising kids. One of my friends works with tutoring kids all day and very consciously had a vasectomy after finding a partner.<p>Why not partner with your spouse on something like ecosystem restoration? <a href="https://happenfilms.com/fools-and-dreamers" rel="nofollow">https://happenfilms.com/fools-and-dreamers</a>
Well, the way I deal with it is I know someone on twitter who shares the half witted insigths he shares with his two kids and think to myself, thank god that's not me.
Ironic as yesterday we had a screaming argument over mishbeaving kids, dividing up the care work, discipline and general stress/tiredness and unhappiness.
You’re absolutely not too late. We had our first in our mid-40s, no complications whatsoever and I suspect we’d be regretting it too if we didn’t at least try.
> My spouse is 39 so the window has closed for biological children, more or less.<p>Hem, not. Not closed, and you should talk with her about your feelings. Today is better.
As others have said, it's not too late for biological children.<p>But you should also consider adoption. You can love them just as you can love your biological children.
Kids need a ton of help today. Help them.<p>Almost every year the top request to Santa is ‘I wish I had a dad’<p>Many dads flee from their kids lives. Mentor them.<p>Families don’t all look the same.
If ye unto your sons would prove<p>By act how dearly them ye love,<p>Then every voice of wisdom joins<p>To bid you leave them in your loins.<p><pre><code> - Abū al-ʿAlāʾ al-Maʿarrī, Arab poet, 973-1057</code></pre>
You don’t have to wrestle with the guilt of producing a living being that is capable of profound suffering.<p>You’re improving the environment monumentally by preventing a new lineage of carbon producers.<p>You’re bestowed with the privilege of greater freedom to live your life.<p>There’s always a silver lining, even in the bleakest of circumstances.
that is not to late at all, my uncle got his first kid at 42 with his 41 year old wife, they even had a second a year later its not to late but you will need to act soon tho.
1. A few friends of mine had kids with woman being over 40. Not unusual.<p>2. You can adopt.<p>3. Do not be too sad about it. I for one look at the state of the world around me and feel guilty for <i>having</i> kids. Guilty about bringing them in this mess.<p>Good luck
In my experience, getting older requires that you also get more proficient in engaging with the passage of time. One of the things you do with your time is make decisions, and as your life unfolds the increasing number of decisions that lie in your past start to increasingly constrain your present and (what remains of) your future. Thats just how it is. People can tell you about this, but until you get there you don't <i>know</i> it.<p>I don't know the OP, so I'm not going to address them in the first person, but I note that they don't say <i>why</i> they want to have children - only that they regret not having them. So I concur with others here that children <i>might</i> not be the main issue - but rather a proxy for general regrets and sorrow about the life changes that many people start to perceive in their fifth decade, as life becomes more constrained. I don't have good solutions for this, but living with regret is a hard road. I personally found the advice of the stoics useful here: don't try to control what you can't control, and the best way to deal with unhappiness over what you don't have is to try to be satisfied with what you do have. But I know thats easy to say and hard to put into practice. And it can lead you into the trap of inaction.<p>But I may be wrong. Some people just have a deep need to have children, ans this often transcends "reasons". While many societies see this as normal in women, we perhaps don't talk enough about how men can feel this way too. If this is genuinely the case for the OP then more therapy may be the only way to address it.<p>It's also worth them considering that actually having children might not address their present regret. I'm a guy in my mid fifties and I did have children (who are now on the edge of adulthood). Being a parent often was, and often still is, a immense joy. But it was also immensely <i>hard</i> in ways I can't adequately describe to people who haven't also done it. Again, until you get there you don't <i>know</i>. So its healthy to not romanticise parenthood and, for the OP, reflecting on whether this is the case for them may be an approach to take. Not easy though, but maybe easier than the alternative.<p>A couple of practical points. Physically, 40 and 38 is not too late (modulo any health issue) to conceive if the OP and his partner both want that. Its important to be aware of the risks of later parenthood, but very many people do have children at that point in their life. It is also important to be aware of the considerable strain it can put on a relationship. Give some thought to the financial implications too: its a heavy twenty-plus year commitment that will close-off some opportunities, and the cost of post-school education may come along just as you are starting to consider retirement.<p>We only get one life and I have no good answers. To the OP - I hope you find peace, however it goes for you.
Step 1. Donate sperm.<p>Start IVF now.<p>Look at overseas options ie Thailand if you need a donor and it's tricky locally.<p>[Start looking at surrogacy] - This is hard<p>Continue counseling. There's something bigger going on, a kid won't solve your problems.<p>And who knows, maybe in 30 years time you can do it. I'd bet aging might be reversable by then. It might just cost $. I have heard rumors of cloning, also needs $, start with IVF.
You're absolutely not too old. My mother had me at forty.
On the other hand, with the current state of the world - and the likelihood it's only going to get worse, should you?