For the youngens here on HN: TomTom was once one of the leading manufacturers of GPS navigation systems for cars - purchased as an accessory that was stuck to the wind screen. This was in a time before every car had a screen built in, and before everyone had a smart phone with Google Maps in their pocket.<p>I guess that product is a prime example for becoming irrelevant by society progressing. I actually still use an old TomTom in my old car that doesn't have a screen (well, it does, but didn't come with a GPS built in - adding it after the fact would have been around 1000£), since I don't have a smart phone. But it has been years since I updated the maps, probably wouldn't even be supported any more?!
I worked at Tele Atlas/TomTom until 10 years ago. There is literally nothing new in this announcement except that they are going to "steal" data from OSM now.<p>sensor derived data, user generated content, camera vans all of that is not new. All this existed when I left, so did the people mentioned in this announcement that are still running the show. I always hoped they would eventually realize that they need a fresh top management, but they seem to just keep doing the same old stuff with the same old people until the final collapse of the company.
Of all the fundamental shifts in my life that smartphones have enabled, having an ever-present map with GPS has been subtle but gigantic. I (we?) interact with cities so differently now
It sounds like TT will be a net taker from OSM, I hope they contribute as much as they benefit, as otherwise it would sound like they're giving up on prop-mapping by cutting costs.<p>It's a press release I suppose, but saying the world lacks an open platform, and processing to use such open platform, sounds a bit weird
Welcome to the party, TomTom! A little more healthy competition never hurts. :)<p>Seriously though, the prestige of OSM and the companies building on it is only growing—a success story of epic proportions to the open source and open data communities!
Curious, does anybody navigate without GPS? Why do you do it?<p>I occasionally challenge myself, and I am always surprised how much more active my mind is, compared to GPS where my mind is passively glancing at the screen every few seconds to see if I'm on course and next turn.
I used to work with TomTom when I worked on navigation solutions at a former employer. The maps are top notch quality and very up to date, but shit expensive. I think we had a minimum amount of licenses we had to commit to pay (something like a couple of hundred thousand euros per year) and we were a small shop.<p>We had split the map data sources to not drive customers away and we split our licensing between our app and the map subscription. It was an interesting problem, we had one employee that only did OpenStreetMap - keeping maps up to date, manually solving problems etc - this was actually much cheaper than buying TomTom, but still we couldn’t match the quality of TomTom. So, we would recommend: do you need high accuracy maps, buy TomTom, otherwise use the cheaper variant.<p>We were also implementing Here Maps (the old Nokia Maps), when I left, and it looked really promising, but I think the same licensing scheme, only “cheaper”, we could make do with only about 100k in pre-bought licenses
OSM and OsmAnd seem great except when you want to search for something. If I search for "mcdonalds" typed lazily I get 5 results hundreds of miles away. To find the local Mcdonalds restaurant I have to type "McDonald's" very specifically. This lack of fuzzy search makes these apps unusable.<p>Its an unfortunate situation of the two parties involved in this software each pointing at each other and blaming the other with neither willing to budge.<p>OSM, I would argue rightly says it's up to map makers how to query the data their project puts out there. The app makers claim (this sounds like BS) that OSM's data or API makes that too hard to do.<p>Either way absolutely unusable. If TomTom can just make a search that works better than this and layer that over the OSM data they've got a win IMO.
Searching the article for the words:<p>"open" - 19 results<p>"open-source" - 4 results<p>The "open-source" refers to using other's open-source data, no mention of TomTom's.<p>e.g.<p>"The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs. One that fosters collaboration, data sharing and open innovation."<p>What does "open" really mean in their doublespeak?
The article says "Many of us know TomTom for its PNDs" - yet I am sure nobody would know what a PND is as that acronym. (I haven't looked it up, but from the context I am sure it is Personal Navigation Device - you know the thing that everyone wrongly calls a GPS)
Had very bad impression with TomTom. Needed a car navigator badly but the Go-6200 never made it on time thus had to go with Go-6100.
It was slow initially, but more or less enough, the cellular data was only good for real time traffic update. But in less than 2 years that was gone too coz TomTom decided to use a 2G module when 4G was everywhere and there was already a time table to retire 2G. That was just genius.<p>Put all that aside, the battery went bad just around a year, it becomes even slower after each firmware upgrade. But what really p*ssed me off was their explanation to lifetime map updates.<p>What they do need is really someone with better vision and ethics I would say.
Apple maps finally good? ;)<p>To be fair, it has become much better and AFAIK it uses TomTom data.<p>This announcement is a master class of marketing blurp with nuggets like "accelerated innovation" and low on actual content.<p>Seems like they are on early access with important-enough customers.
Reminds me of an encounter in Nepal, where a Chinese guy with Baidu maps was lost finding his hotel, and Google on my phone wasn't exactly much better. OSM to the rescue (and thanks to everyone who contributed data for that)!
What is the involvement of OpenStreetMap in this ecosystem?<p>From the FAQs at <a href="https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/" rel="nofollow">https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/</a>:<p>> I don’t want to use the new maps with OSM, will my application continue to work if I use an older library version?<p>> Yes. Although we encourage you to switch to the new enhanced map to take full advantage of the new map features integrated by the OSM community.<p>This update is light on details around licensing of the new map.
I was <i>hot shit</i> 15+ years ago, using TomTom as the car navigation system on my Windows CE phone.<p>...haven't really heard or thought or cared about poor TomTom since then though.
I'd like to see open-source topo maps with accurate elevation data, and accurate GPS position data. Doesn't seem to exist and 'topographical' and 'GPS data points' are not mentioned in this article. For now, individual maps can be obtained via USGS, but they're not stiched together:<p><a href="https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/" rel="nofollow">https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/</a>
TomTom say «go through the roundabout, second exit”. Or “left” or “right”. Which is infinitely better than Google’s “take the second exit”, which in 95% of the situations means “go straight ahead”, but since they don’t bother to say that, you need to count every frikkin’ time. That alone is reason good enough to use TomTom.
It reminds me of the ViziCities work that was done 7/8 years ago by a guy called Rob Hawkes - <a href="https://twitter.com/robhawkes" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/robhawkes</a><p>That to me was groundbreaking.<p><a href="https://github.com/UDST/vizicities" rel="nofollow">https://github.com/UDST/vizicities</a>
>Continuously updated and detailed maps, location data, POI information, routing algorithms, estimated times of arrival (ETAs) and positioning systems are being combined to create powerful apps that are changing the way we (and our stuff) move and how we make sense of the world around us.<p>I suppose it is good that they finally noticed.
So who is going to be the first to merge street data with a driving sim so I can race around familiar streets at my wont?<p>Of course it’ll eventually lead to GTA VR ugh but I can at least get what I want…blasting a Jesko on the Dallas north tollway at full chat
Also discussed on HN 5 months ago when they announced job cuts due to "improved automation":<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31580264" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=31580264</a>
Ahh, TomTom. I quit using mine in the late 00s and kept a local map for when I did pizza delivery, because there were false streets all over the TomTom map that the TomTom wanted me to take, including false exits off a freeway.
Tom-Tom is worse than Google map for direction, and also dash unit is always not up to date, no traffic... But I really like open streetmap, and in my area it is better than google map. I hope they will be able to innovate against google.
TLDR: they're offloading their mapping business to OpenStreetMap.<p>Many of their devices have Lifetime Maps support and it's probably costing them too much, since they're not getting paid for the updates.<p>BTW Garmin has been using OpenStreetMap for a LONG time.
I’m not sure what I just read, but it felt like it was AI generated.<p>… full of words,
and absolutely no information.<p>Even the linked page (<a href="https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/" rel="nofollow">https://www.tomtom.com/tomtom-maps-platform/</a>) really doesn’t make it even remotely clear what they’re announcing, or why we should care.<p>> The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs<p>What does that even mean?<p>I’ll tell you what it means: no, our API pricing for whatever this service is will not be public, not be self serve and not be for small time developers to play with.<p>Ah wait, I get it!<p>> With its new map, TomTom is using AI and machine-learning techniques to speed up the process and make a much greater volume of changes in a much smaller period of time. With the masses of data used, the quality of the new map will be a step above what’s currently available on the market<p>I see! You’re going to compete with google maps and others but you’re going to pour The AI Machine Learning on your offering to make it better than the others.<p>…well, I guess we’ll see how it goes.<p>That approach (same as everyone but we have AI!!!??!?…?) is really a bad business model.<p>The problem is that everyone is doing it; and only a very small number of people are doing it at a level that makes any meaningful difference, and for those companies it’s a core competency, not a value add.
I don't understand the 'everything was better when it wasn't google' mentality that is so often found in these threads. My dad used to work at TomTom right here in the Netherlands. They used to be a fun and innovative company to work for. When it became apparent they entered a multibillion dollar business it was all about the money.<p>As someone who used TomTom before other options became available I can honestly say that it was an absolute nightmare. The small handheld devices took ages before loading up, had bad GPS reception and could only live on battery for 1.5 hours or so. Maps needed to be updated quarterly and would often not fit on the SD CARD. TomTom charged something in the order of 75 euro per map update.<p>When Google Maps became a viable alternative TomTom continued with the same business model, same paid map updates, same shitty bloatware necessary for map updates etc.. I don't understand the HN sentiment. Things were no better 15 years ago. Google Maps works. It works always. It accurate and uptodate. Dont like Google? There are plenty of OSM apps in store.
I will never forgive TomTom's bait and switch: I bought a lifetime subscription of their app for my iPhone for about $50. After a few years they stopped the service claiming that "lifetime" meant the lifetime of the device.
TomTom like Here and Garmin are fighting to try to stay relevant in a market that has been seized by Android Auto and CarPlay.<p>The issue is the car vendors do not want to surrender their navigation and entertainment to Google and Apple as navigation system options at >$1500 and ongoing updates are precious margin and recurring revenue that they all desire.<p>With Android Auto or CarPlay they give that all up.<p>They are both dead men walking but like to do a full court press like this every few years to remind us all they still have the lights on.
A meta-comment: The entire tone of this press release is so weird, e.g.:<p>"There’s also significant talk about how the company will use OSM data. It’s clear TomTom is treading cautiously and respectfully here.".<p>That's something you might expect to read in an article written by an independent journalist, not a corporate press release written by in-house staff.
> These super sources include open-source data (such as OpenStreetMap), probe data, sensor derived observations (SDO) and data from a pool of important partners, which include some of the biggest names in the tech industry.<p>Great, so they'll suck open street map data, but won't contribute back.<p>IMO if someone wants to compete against Google Maps, then the Chromium open source strategy ought to work well against them. Many players building on an open source map. Not just roads, but full 3D meshes, building annotations, internal maps of public buildings e.g airports e.t.c<p>Cruise has started rolling our driverless cars in SF at night. Their strategy is mapping all of SF at centimeter accuracy and having every car have a fresh map as it drives around.<p>For me, that feels like the future of mapping. A fresh map of the world at centimeter accuracy, then hierarchical layers of abstraction with lesser details.
> The world lacks a truly open and collaborative mapping ecosystem, one that doesn’t follow a one-size-fits-all model but is flexible so that businesses can build according to their needs. One that fosters collaboration, data sharing and open innovation<p>Damn, somebody should tell them about OpenStreetMap