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How to sell tickets fairly

202 pointsby barnabaskover 2 years ago

62 comments

buro9over 2 years ago
The proposed idea is a technical one that doesn&#x27;t work for the promoters or artists or venues.<p>The promoters want to know very early whether the venue is the right one for the number attending and whether to upsize, add dates, or even to go the other way to a smaller venue. The time to book a venue is very long... So they need as complete data as they can about sales as early as possible (they would love if 80% of the tickets that will sell can be sold in the first week - as then they can quickly make a decision about whether this is the right venue and if more dates are needed).<p>The artists want to enable as many fans to get in as possible, including young and poorer fans... Who tend to be more evangelical about an artist and drive their growth more and ultimately are more loyal and spend more over the lifetime of being a fan. They are poorer but more sticky. The artists also want to play to as full a venue as possible as that is the best atmosphere.<p>The venues want to have surety in their bookings (see the promoter dilemma as to whether to change venue) and for the capacity to be as close to full as possible as they will make more revenue from bar and food sales than from pure ticket sales.<p>All of these... All of them... Are not solved by the technical solution proposed except when it doesn&#x27;t matter... When you&#x27;re absolutely sure you&#x27;re going to sell out. In which case you also don&#x27;t need to change anything or invest in anything new because you&#x27;re going to sell out anyway.<p>There are solutions that can threaten the current model... But this blog is not one of them.<p>In fact, the idea that &quot;I have more money and deserve more to have a ticket over someone that doesn&#x27;t have as much money&quot; is antithetical to the thinking of every artist I&#x27;ve ever worked with.
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onion2kover 2 years ago
Starting at $2000 for a concert where demand outstrips supply to the point where people will pay $4000 to a ticket scalper just means the minimum ticket price will be $2000. All the tickets will still sell out immediately. The audience will be entirely made up of wealthy people, or people who are willing to break the bank to see Taylor sing.<p>The only &quot;fair&quot; way to sell a good that&#x27;s in high demand and you want everyone to have the same level of access regardless of their background is a lottery. Tell people what the price is, let them apply for tickets, and sell to people at random. Scalping can be stopped by not allowing people to transfer tickets to other people - people should get a refund in full and their tickets get resold to other people in the lottery if someone changes their mind.<p>The obvious problem with the lottery approach is that it entirely fails to maximize profit.<p>Personally, if I was selling tickets, I&#x27;d just not sell them &quot;fairly&quot;. Accept that tickets are a luxury item, like Ferraris.
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hluskaover 2 years ago
Pearl Jam tried to beat Ticketmaster. At the risk of sounding like the big fan I am, if Eddie Vedder and co. (at their commercial peak) can’t beat Ticketmaster, I’m not convinced that software can.<p>I’ve been pasting this Rolling Stone link since I was in my teens. I can’t believe how old I am…<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rollingstone.com&#x2F;music&#x2F;music-news&#x2F;pearl-jam-taking-on-ticketmaster-67440&#x2F;amp&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.rollingstone.com&#x2F;music&#x2F;music-news&#x2F;pearl-jam-taki...</a>
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bo1024over 2 years ago
I think this is great if your goal is to clear the market at a competitive price. But a lot of artists want to sell tickets below market price. That makes the problem a lot harder. The obvious thing to do is have a lottery, but it&#x27;s hard to stop people from using multiple identities (especially scalpers).
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musicaleover 2 years ago
I think one reason why artists don&#x27;t take the Dutch Auction approach is that they want to recruit new fans, including kids who might not have much money. They also probably don&#x27;t want to be seen as greedy.<p>In the absence of some system that prevents resale, scalpers will likely still buy up all of the Taylor Swift tickets before they drop to a price that is affordable for these less-affluent fans.<p>The bots will likely still win if they can determine how many tickets are left and how fast they are selling.
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e12eover 2 years ago
Meh. I like the Fusion Festival raffle system better.<p>Allow people to sign up to buy, optionally as a group (all&#x2F;none &quot;win&quot;) - then randomly assign &quot;purchase rights&quot;.<p>The main downside might be the need for ID checks to verify no scalping.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tickets.fusion-festival.de&#x2F;faq&#x2F;#faq-12" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tickets.fusion-festival.de&#x2F;faq&#x2F;#faq-12</a>
Waterluvianover 2 years ago
It’s a trivially solvable problem to engineers because it’s not an engineering problem. They want all the hype and rush. It’s become a piece of culture to “wait in line.”<p>I once had a company put me in an async queue for months to wait for my brand new gadget. I wish Sony had done the same with the PS5.
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woeiruaover 2 years ago
Or you could just be like Garth Brooks and keep adding shows until they no longer sell out. Boom, problem solved.
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allanrboover 2 years ago
Or how about a lottery system. You get an email if you win the privilege of buying a tickets. Tickets are named and require ID check, to prevent scalpers. If you are unable to go, your ticket just goes back to the lottery pool.
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littleJeckover 2 years ago
I could imagine the Dutch auction would only change the strategy of scalpers, besides being a massive money grab for artists, venues and ticket master.<p>The strategy for scalpers now appears to be get in as fast as possible and buy as many tickets as they can. But if we can assume the event will sellout completely and there is sufficient demand (e.g. Taylor Swift which I think I read would need to do 900 concerts to meet the initial demand) then scalpers could still win. Scalpers would just need to set a desired amount of tickets to buy and attempt to buy them at the last possible moment. They will get the tickets for the cheapest price for the event and could then sell them for a markup.<p>I think people would buy the scalpers tickets since they may have been waiting to see how low the prices can get, or they are able to obsess over remaining ticket numbers like a bot could and just missed out.<p>The only benefit I could see to the Dutch auction is it increases risk to scalpers by making them pay larger prices and get the last pick of seats, but only for events with allocated seats. So maybe instead of half the tickets for an event being scalped, they may only have the risk appetite for 10% of the tickets.
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kqrover 2 years ago
Here&#x27;s an even simpler method, that&#x27;s actually more fair because it doesn&#x27;t bias toward those with big pockets or much time or technical skill:<p>Open up for registration. Keep registration open until the date of the show. Registration costs the price of the ticket. As the show comes close, for as long as there are tickets not sold, randomly select some people every day who receive a ticket. On the day of the show, refund -- with interest -- the money of the people who were never offered a ticket.<p>I&#x27;ve never understood this obsession with first come, first served for extremely limited resources. Due to technical limitations it pretty much always turns out to be a lottery anyway, and we would save both customers and sysadmins trouble by explicitly turning it into one instead.<p>(Back in the days when it required camping outside the ticket office, it instead unfairly favoured those with lots of time on their hands, and&#x2F;or lots of money.)<p>(I&#x27;m assuming &quot;fair&quot; here means that everyone has an equal chance, uncorrelated with any other aspect of their life. A random selection is the only method that can guarantee this property.)
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wskishover 2 years ago
Here is the system that the Grateful Dead developed to bypass Ticketmaster BITD:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.cmu.edu&#x2F;~mleone&#x2F;gdead&#x2F;faq&#x2F;tickets.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.cmu.edu&#x2F;~mleone&#x2F;gdead&#x2F;faq&#x2F;tickets.html</a>
the_munglerover 2 years ago
Why not have a big closed auction? Everyone has a week or so to submit how much they are willing to pay for a ticket. Once the auction closes, sort by price and take the number of seats available. Everyone pays the minimum price that still fits in the seats available.<p>I&#x27;m imagining a large scale Vickery auction, sorry if I&#x27;m not explaining super well. Everyone pays the same, but people get a price they think is fair.
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adam_arthurover 2 years ago
I don’t understand at all why prices aren’t raised in these severe demand&#x2F;supply imbalance situations.<p>Same applies to PS5 etc<p>There wouldn’t be a shortage at all if it were priced appropriately. And scalpers just end up capturing that value anyway
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bluelightning2kover 2 years ago
Hard not to read this as &quot;I have a lot of money. I shouldn&#x27;t have to wait in line with commoners!&quot;<p>Sorry for the almost political comment but that&#x27;s how it hit me
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milderworkaccover 2 years ago
What a lot of the comments in here are bumping up against with regards to “fairness” is the fact that willingness to pay is a function of both preference intensity and <i>ability</i> to pay.<p>The way to make sure TS tickets go to the biggest TS fans is to remove the influence of ability to pay and sort only by preference intensity.<p>Solving wealth inequality fixes this problem entirely - among others!<p>Edit: like all good economists, I leave solving that particular bit of the problem as an exercise to the reader.
iambatemanover 2 years ago
I like the idea of demand pricing as a way of increasing access but I don’t think it would work in practice.<p>Too many people would be thrown off by the falling price, and want to wait. Friends who bought earlier than other friends feel like suckers for spending more money on the same thing.<p>Lastly, what we call scalping _is_ a service to the ticket-buyer. The scalper is providing a market for the ticket at a price which is agreeable to the buyer. Dads love to complain about the “high” price of a ticket while they stand in line for $15 popcorn. Meanwhile, scalpers effectively do the work described in the article by adjusting prices very quickly based on actual demand. As an event gets close to starting, unsold inventory drops precipitously in price until it’s sold.<p>The reason scalping has a bad reputation is that most entertainment pricing is set well below the actual value of the event.
wombat-manover 2 years ago
- Digital only tickets - By default, the tickets are not transferrable. Use your app on your phone to get in. - You can pay a fee to make tickets transferrable&#x2F;scalpable. - The fee increases as more tickets are sold with this option (set ceiling on max number of tickets with this option sold)<p>So okay, you want to scalp tickets, you have to pay more and people who don&#x27;t want to transfer pay less.
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jonas21over 2 years ago
It seems like this would produce the same outcome as Ticketmaster&#x27;s dynamic pricing. According to this article, fans hate it [1].<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vice.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;article&#x2F;m7gx34&#x2F;blink-182-tickets-are-so-expensive-because-ticketmaster-is-a-disastrous-monopoly-and-now-everyone-pays-ticket-broker-prices" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vice.com&#x2F;en&#x2F;article&#x2F;m7gx34&#x2F;blink-182-tickets-are...</a>
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dsalzmanover 2 years ago
Make it a lottery. A toy example, instead of selling 10,000 tickets that sell for $1000 sell 500k “lottery” tickets for $20 each. A lucky 10,000 get to the concert. The artist&#x2F;venue makes the same amount. Everyone gets a chance at seeing the artist for a reasonable price. Would work for very popular artists with young fans like T Swift. Lottery tickets would need to be non-transferable as well.
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throwawaaarrghover 2 years ago
Burning Man-style ticket sale systems require a lot of extra workflow features, like a waiting room, ticket claim, raffle selection, identity confirmation. They have multiple phases of sales where the price increases. They have hardship tickets, if you can prove you simply can&#x27;t afford the normal price.<p>Resale for above original value is not allowed, and if you&#x27;re reported the ticket may be forfeit and original seller banned. You can transfer a ticket to another person using their ticket management system, and I imagine you could also &quot;sell back&quot; your ticket to be given away at the box office as hardship tickets.<p>Most people do buy as many as they can and sell or give away the extras to their friends or people on forums looking for tickets. While controversial, it is nice to go to an event with your friends, and it does feel like you&#x27;re helping strangers who are interested enough that they hunt around on forums for a ticket.
etchalonover 2 years ago
There is no such thing as a &quot;fair&quot; way to sell anything where demand vastly outstrips supply.<p>There are just choices about what resource you want to prejudice for: money, time or luck.
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type-rover 2 years ago
Setting aside the issues that revenue maximization is not typically the only (or even the main) concern for those selling tickets, I still think this system isn&#x27;t very good. One key issue is that it assumes that the underlying value of the tickets themselves does not change over time (in the article&#x27;s specific case, 6 months). But an artist&#x27;s popularity can be extremely unpredictable, and over the course of 6 months could change drastically. This would likely mean leaving money on the table, especially if that rise in popularity comes close to the actual event date.<p>I think a better approach that could deal with this would be to avoid trying to come up with the &#x27;max&#x27; and &#x27;min&#x27; amounts and instead simply let people submit bids for how much they are willing to pay for tickets. You would pre-authorize that amount at order time, but it wouldn&#x27;t yet be deducted. At the end of every day, the top n bids would &#x27;win&#x27; and actually actually purchase the ticket.<p>In the simple case where the artist&#x27;s popularity stays the same over time, this would probably result in a similar outcome to OP&#x27;s suggestion. But if the artist undergoes a big increase in popularity, the ticket price would rise again to a much higher value later.
Nursieover 2 years ago
Yeah this doesn&#x27;t feel &quot;Fair&quot; to me. It would likely reduce the scalping problem, sure, but it also introduces a whole lot of &quot;Well this is the price I want to pay, but what if it sells out? Should I stretch and pay more?&quot; type feelings.<p>Maybe scalpers get in around this &quot;stretch&quot; point and then when there are no tickets left at all, people realise they really want to go and stretch a bit further to buy from the scalper.<p>As others have pointed out too - this really selects for wealth. As someone with a decent income, I might get to go and see all my favourite bands, but lower income folks might be priced out of the market entirely (which they already are by scalpers to a greater or lesser extent).
TarasBobover 2 years ago
The process needs to be modified slightly. Everyone should end up paying the same amount for the ticket in the end. Those who bought early should not be penalized. When the the last ticket is sold, everyone should pay the same price as the last ticket. So when you buy early, you are just indicating the <i>Maximum</i> price you are willing to pay.<p>There should also be an option to automatically place a bid once the price reaches a certain level.<p>That’s the most fair way to auction off a bunch of identical things.<p>Another modification I would add to this is that let’s say 20% of the tickets should be sold for very cheap using a lottery system. So that not only the richest people could go to the concert.
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asurtyover 2 years ago
I think ticket master attempted to do something similar to what you were saying as mentioned in this freakonimics podcast -<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;freakonomics.com&#x2F;podcast&#x2F;why-is-the-live-event-ticket-market-so-screwed-up&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;freakonomics.com&#x2F;podcast&#x2F;why-is-the-live-event-ticke...</a><p>I believe the problem they cited with this approach is it provides a poor UX where someone would have to keep checking the site to see if the ticket price has hit their desired target.<p>It would also still leave room for bots front running although still a better solution since the effects are dampened. Still, it&#x27;s a lot easier for a bot to watch for a &#x27;good price&#x27; to come up than a &#x27;true fan&#x27;.<p>Perhaps to get around that there could also be an ability to make automatic purchases for a user once the ticket price reaches desired target? Something like a batch auction that randomizes winners in a cohort might work.<p>There are also people working in this area that would like to simply prevent resales. The problem there is it also might discourage purchases since people might be more reluctant to make such a big purchase if there is no way to recoup their money in case something happens that prevents them from going.<p>Perhaps another alternative to discourage scalping is if there was an identity system that requires each ticket holder to prove their identity. That, however, would also decrease the UX dramatically and would be a tough sell. But maybe the time is right to make such a hard sell?
somehnacct3757over 2 years ago
I don&#x27;t get what this has to do with combating scalping. This is just a new auction game to play. It levels the playing field for a time, as all new games do, but the scalpers will eventually win it.<p>In this case the game is to find X where X is the percent of concert goers willing to pay scalpers. Then you buy the bottom X% of tickets for the current price and list them for more money. This is easy to do because the auction site tells you the number of remaining tickets.<p>Since there&#x27;s no supply of auction tickets left, scalpers can now set the price. And since they paid the lowest price out of any of the ticket holders, they hold all the power.
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alar44over 2 years ago
It&#x27;s straight up supply and demand. I have no idea why anyone is surprised why scarce goods are expensive. Their is no solution. Idk unless you want to socialize entertainment or something. Give out entertainment credits.
jwithingtonover 2 years ago
Worked in the sneaker resales world. Artists, sneaker companies, etc., are all aware that the Dutch auction could solve the problem.<p>But they choose not to pursue because of reputational&#x2F;brand damage. It’s a shame!
poopsmitheover 2 years ago
YES! I love this concept. The big clock featured in the post was described in a Tom Scott video[1] earlier this year. It&#x27;s the Royal FloraHolland&#x27;s flower auction in Aalsmeer. Fascinating to see how it worked then and how it works now. Same concept, just computerized and accessible remotely by bidders.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=uAdmzyKagvE" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=uAdmzyKagvE</a>
Aprecheover 2 years ago
Talk about fair distribution all you want, it doesn&#x27;t matter. People who buy tickets are not the customers of Ticketmaster. Ticketmaster does not have any incentive to implement any system that better serves the people who actually attend ticketed events.<p>The customers for Ticketmaster are venues. That&#x27;s the only party that Ticketmaster cares to please. Of course Ticketmaster wields their monopoly power such that venues have little choice but to go with them. But even if they did not do that, Ticketmaster serves the interests of the venues very very well.<p>If you want to defeat Ticketmaster with a market solution, you can&#x27;t do it by creating a Ticketmaster competitor. No matter how good it is, venues can&#x27;t be swayed. You will have no customers. The only market solution is to own venues. As a venue owner you could refuse to renew with Ticketmaster and use any other system you wanted.<p>Of course, if you do that, good luck booking anyone to perform in your venue. It better be a big famous one that they can&#x27;t ignore.
patmccover 2 years ago
The obvious fix to bots and scalpers is just to not allow ticket transfers - you give your name when you buy the ticket and show your ID at the door. Why this isn&#x27;t the current process is left as an exercise to the reader.
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mrozbarryover 2 years ago
This isn&#x27;t to be argumentative, but life isn&#x27;t fair. This article discusses how to make buying a Taylor Swift ticket fair, meanwhile there are much larger social issues, like homelessness. I&#x27;m not a concert guy, and all the more power to those who do enjoy it, but it&#x27;s absolutely a luxury to those that want to go.
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Spooky23over 2 years ago
I have an idea. Hire a bunch of lobbyists to advocate legalizing scalping, then allow the biggest monopolist ticketing middleman to setup the largest resale marketplace.<p>Then, we act surprised when “hackers” somehow are able to defeat the anti-bot systems and resell (with another set of fees) bulk quantities of tickets on said resale marketplace.
dupedover 2 years ago
Something not talked about here is that there&#x27;s a finite number of seats that can be sold for all the tours in the year.<p>At a smaller scale, look at Broadway productions. There are 41 &quot;broadway&quot; theaters in New York, each with between 500-2000 seats performing 8 shows each week. Ballparking because I don&#x27;t have the exact numbers, that&#x27;s a total number of tickets you can sell of under about 350,000 tickets for all broadway shows that can be sold each year. Even if you include all the touring and local productions of shows in cities, there are not enough theaters to meet the demand for live musicals and plays (and while locally, shows will underperform and not sell out, and there are periods of downtime between shows changing, it&#x27;s still capped).<p>Now these massive tours are limited in a similar way. There are only a few dozen arenas that can seat tens of thousands of people year round, and only so many nights they can operate. But unlike those shows, a single production team can&#x27;t &quot;own&quot; a venue for months at a time. So they need to tour, which is about the most expensive way to get a production of that scale off the ground. Moving a production and staffing it throughout a tour is so expensive that guaranteeing the endeavor is profitable is still difficult - many of the &quot;biggest&quot; tours with sellout crowds across the country have been financial disasters.<p>Basically my point is that the issue isn&#x27;t just in fairness in ticket sales. It&#x27;s lack of venues. Which makes sense. If we had cities operate like Las Vegas, and have venues that put on high profile shows for months at a time with residencies, the access to the shows might be (paradoxically) improved despite being hyper local. If you can guarantee a low risk&#x2F;profitable production and rely on people traveling to the show (which many do! look at broadway - people can and do see shows affordably with the highest cost being the plane ticket) then the problem might be better mitigated. Or maybe not. I&#x27;m not an economist, but the point is that the supply problem goes a lot deeper than people trying to buy tickets at the same time.
whartungover 2 years ago
Back in the day, The Who was presenting &quot;Tommy&quot;. First time they were doing it live again. The &quot;cheap&quot; tickets were $75. This was a smaller venue.<p>$75 was a bit of money to be sure.<p>Back then you waited outside record stores to buy tickets. You&#x27;d line up, and sometime before the sale, they&#x27;d come out and hand out numbers, say 1 to 100. Then you&#x27;d sort by the number. Then they&#x27;d come out and say &quot;We&#x27;re starting the line at 37&quot;. 37 would be the front of the line, everyone else would sort behind that, wrapping around at the back. #36 would be the last in line.<p>When I went to buy Tommy tickets, they were also selling another acts tickets.<p>Since the tickets were so expensive, I went out of my way to go to a lower income neighborhood with the hope that there would be less folks in line to buy tickets, simply due to the price.<p>In the end, I got my ticket and the lady behind me did not. If they weren&#x27;t selling the other act, maybe she would have made it.<p>When the Rolling Stones with Guns and Roses in LA went on sale, they gave out wristbands days in advance. My spot in line was around the building, the first show was sold out before I got there. The seats I did get were basically lousy when I did get them. That took an afternoon.<p>When I went to buy tickets at the venue, they handed out numbers, but they didn&#x27;t scramble them. The numbers were random, but #1 was first in line. As soon as I got my number, there was a guy offering to buy low numbers. I had not doubt he was going to buy the 8 ticket limit. He wasn&#x27;t a fan, he was a professional scalper.<p>U2 tried to sell tickets over the phone in LA, trying to route around TicketMaster. It literally disabled the Los Angeles telephone system for several hours. You&#x27;d pick up the phone and not be able to hear a dial tone (I was listening to the modem trying to dial in to a client site). It would take up to 30 seconds to get a dial tone, and good luck getting your call through anyway. Total disaster.<p>Taylor Swift sold out 2M tickets. I don&#x27;t care what the time frame that was in, that&#x27;s a boat load of traffic. Think not of the 2M they sold, think of how many were not sold. I think there are few companies that could handle that load, especially something as specific as selling seats A29, A30, A31, and A40 to Bob Jones. Let&#x27;s see a paper on that locking problem.<p>The production company sets the ticket prices, TM sets the service fees, if you want to save on service fees, go to the venue. I&#x27;m not defending TM, they certainly don&#x27;t need me, but it&#x27;s been an intractable problem for a long, long time, at all sorts of levels. If you think TMs fees are bad, try StubHub.
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etothepiiover 2 years ago
While this might maximise the amount of money the organisers get for an event it doesn&#x27;t handle variable fixed costs.<p>That is I might need no capital at all to run my tour if I sell tickets at a highish (but sub-optimal) price early on.
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underyxover 2 years ago
&gt; Two buyers might try for the same exact seats at the same moment, but that is much less likely in a slow single-bid auction like this<p>Well except that everyone would try to grab the very last ticket, which would be the cheapest.
ripeover 2 years ago
Yes, I think this kind of price-reducing auction would work and would be fair and not user hostile.<p>For Taylor Swift’s tickets, I wonder what the starting price would need to be at a typical Northeast venue like Gillette Stadium…
justinlkarrover 2 years ago
Northwestern University uses (or used) a version of this for their basketball team, which they call &quot;Purple Pricing&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.cornell.edu&#x2F;info2040&#x2F;2022&#x2F;10&#x2F;25&#x2F;sports-ticket-pricing-dutch-auction-method&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blogs.cornell.edu&#x2F;info2040&#x2F;2022&#x2F;10&#x2F;25&#x2F;sports-ticket-...</a> <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2013&#x2F;05&#x2F;any-business-trying-to-sell" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;hbr.org&#x2F;2013&#x2F;05&#x2F;any-business-trying-to-sell</a>
langsoul-comover 2 years ago
This isn&#x27;t fair to those who can only afford standard priced tickets.<p>It will maximise profits, but is not fair.<p>Other platforms do waves, split across time zones. That would distribute the load to prevent crashes.
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timpetriover 2 years ago
I feel like Dice.fm already solved this. You can buy an untransferable ticket and if you cant go, you simply return it to a wait-list of people who have signed up. You get your money back, and they pay the same price. Maybe there are some transaction fees involved but overall this eliminates the ability for someone to buy just to sell?
fedeb95over 2 years ago
Depends of the definition of &quot;fair&quot;. To me, giving away infinite free tickets to interested people and then extract with a uniform distribution would be fair. Of course you need to provide some kind of ID and go at the concert with that. Comes the problem of fake ID, but that seems negligible.
GrumpyNlover 2 years ago
The biggest problem is ticket scalper. We have developed a ticket system with personalized encrypted tickets. When you are not able to go the event, you to give your tickets back at us and we will refund the money. Because the tickets are personalized and encrypted, you can not swap them.
wanderingbortover 2 years ago
I will start to sound like a broken record soon but blockchain has provided a wealth of information about “fair” distribution games and their downfalls.<p>The NFT summer of 2021 saw first come first serve distros gamed by parties with superior network positioning.<p>Dutch auctions (from the article) strongly favored the wealthy buyers not fans or parties who “pay” with other things of value like their time.<p>Lotteries were easily games by sock puppets.<p>Lotteries with “strong” identity verification created grey markets for identities. Think about mechanical Turk but peoples task is to get a lottery ticket and remit the winnings.<p>People tried social credit systems where participating in community activities like discords earned you the spot in line. Again, services arose to farm these spots.<p>Fascinating microcosm of human behavior.<p>I agree with commenters that suggest refundable non-transferable tickets however, for goods this scarce where a secondary market is valuable, I don’t think we have a simple good solution.
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matai_kolilaover 2 years ago
&gt; Shameless plug: I understand how to make and launch exactly this kind of system, at least technically. If you want it built, please contact me.<p>I cannot roll my eyes hard enough - if you can, then do it already. Why the hell do you need the encouragement?
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iopqover 2 years ago
Or, you release tickets for auction starting from 6 months prior slowly. Whatever the auction price is, that&#x27;s what they are sold for. Start with the best seats, then the auction results might inform buyers how to bid on the next seat.
trompover 2 years ago
How about an auction of lottery tickets where the price is fixed but the probability of winning increases over time? Still identity verified so that each person can buy only one ticket and if they win they must attend themselves.
punnerudover 2 years ago
In Norway you are not allowed to sell the tickets to a higher price, than the listing price.<p>You can actually go through with the buying from a third party, and demand a refund for the additional price afterward (and keep the ticket)
e-clintonover 2 years ago
This model assumes that everyone is just sitting around paying attention to your concern tickets. If I see your prices are $2000&#x2F;seat, I will just find somewhere else go spend my $300.
stevageover 2 years ago
Interestingly a major band I saw last night, Crowded House, just came out against any kind of demand driven pricing, and forced TicketMaster to refund all premium ticket charges.
whall6over 2 years ago
As an artist, connect with your top listeners on Spotify &#x2F; Apple Music and give them a onetime use link to buy $20 tickets and allocate the rest of the tickets by auction.
fparlaneover 2 years ago
I wonder if you&#x27;d see &quot;bank runs&quot; happen spontaneously as nervous fans see the number of available tickets start to drop, causing a spontaneous feedback loop.
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billyt555over 2 years ago
Ticketmaster could have done everyone a huge favor by simply staggering the sales for separate dates a bit and not trying to sell tix for every show all at once.
Euphorbiumover 2 years ago
Interesting how there is absolutely none of this problem in Europe, as tickets are tied to an ID and there is no reselling or scalping.
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SergeAxover 2 years ago
I have a very valid question: if this method was used to sell tulips in XVII, how it can be patented in 2020?
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wkdneidbwfover 2 years ago
a dutch auction seems neither fair nor in line with how artists would want their tickets sold.<p>sure, some artists may want as much money as they can make but surely the majority want their fans to be able to see them affordably? at least, i hope.
tamaharborover 2 years ago
Is Taylor Swift that good? I must be very old.
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ljw1004over 2 years ago
In what sense is this solution &quot;fair&quot;? What definition of fairness is being used?<p>This seems like a solution where rich people get the good things and poor people don&#x27;t. I wouldn&#x27;t call that fair.<p>In a democracy, everyone has an equal weight, an equal say, in the governance of the country. We often call that fair, or sometimes just.<p>In capitalism, every dollar has an equal weight, an equal say in what gets produced or built or done.
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romdevover 2 years ago
John Oliver had an expose of all the things I already knew about how corrupt Ticketmaster is. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-_Y7uqqEFnY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=-_Y7uqqEFnY</a>
zelienopleover 2 years ago
It&#x27;s not the ticket system that is broken; it&#x27;s the people.<p>The problem with stadium tours is that 95 percent or more of the seats are awful. They provide an extremely poor concert experience.<p>The sound is very bad for most of the audience. Many technological innovations in stadium sound have tried to address this, but the underlying physics has been resistant to an acceptable solution.<p>The visuals are even worse. An enormous fraction of the audience cannot resolve the headliner on stage as a result of the size of the performer and the distance to the viewer. The visuals then devolve to the viewers ability to see an enormous television screen.<p>So why would anyone want to go to a stadium show, if not for the visuals and the audio?<p>It comes down to human competitiveness. Bragging rights. Ingesting mass media nonsense about how a product or experience will make one feel, and then disgorging it to a peer group as a method of creating an artificial distinction between the &quot;haves&quot; and the &quot;have-nots&quot;.<p>Taylor Swift, in particular, has been a genius at creating hysteria among her fans. They have ingested the idea that, if Taylor is in town, and you are not there, then you are a resident of the outer, miserable, darkness.<p>The truth, however, is that if you attend a stadium show, the only positive aspect is that you &quot;were there&quot;. You will not see, hear, or in any meaningful way, experience the object of your hysteria. You will be packed into a seat with a group of strangers also experiencing a mass-media induced mental derangement.<p>The foregoing may lead you to believe that I am not a fan, but you would be wrong. My opinion was formed by the experience of going to all the Taylor Swift stadium tours, up to a certain point.<p>What changed was that I stopped fighting Ticketmaster at one point. I opted out and did not buy a ticket. However, I still wanted to go to the show. All seats were prohibitively expensive on the secondary market; good seats, even more so.<p>There were two shows in my city on subsequent nights. The first night, I watched prices on the scalper sites and I discovered that, in the last few minutes before the start time of the show, prices for even the best seats tumbled dramatically.<p>This was simple economics; unsold seats are a cost that subtracts from overall profit. It makes sense to dump them for any amount, even at a loss.<p>The second night, I waited until the price for a single front-row seat fell below the original price of the least expensive seat anywhere. I bought it, printed my ticket, and went to the show.<p>This was a transformative experience because I was literally a few metres from the stage. I could get out of my seat and stand by the barricades and see and hear as if the show was at at my neighbourhood folk club or an open mic night. I then turned around, with Taylor directly behind me, and I could see the view of a packed stadium waving lights and singing along, just like what those on stage would see.<p>I learned the difference between what the few who had the money or influence to obtain the best seats experience, and what the great majority of stadium show concert-goers endure.<p>I was cured. I have never, since that day, had any desire to attend a stadium show or buy a ticket for a standard seat in any large venue.<p>Unfortunately, it isn&#x27;t really practical to educate a significant fraction of fans by demonstrating this.<p>Maybe there is a technological solution, though. If we could arrange for people to have a feed from a front row observer in fully immersive VR, we could perhaps recreate enough of the experience that the rush to purchase a grossly substandard product would diminish.<p>There are probably significant economic forces that would oppose this (Ticketmaster, obviously) because education is often the enemy of mass-market driven capitalism.<p>The longer-term solution is probably to recognize that the innate social behaviour of humans has been exploited to our total destruction by those who would hoard all wealth for themselves, and to begin another great eugenics experiment: breeding selfishness, conflict and the tendency to self-destructive herd behaviour out of the human genome, But that is beyond the scope of this discussion.
mosseaterover 2 years ago
An NFT solution to ticketing seems like it would be trivial given how NFTs operate already. One ticket could be verifiably owned by one person. If that person wanted to resell the ticket, there could be restrictions on how much they could sell it for. If bots can&#x27;t make a profit there&#x27;s no use in buying out all the tickets. It would also decentralize the space. Sure you need a marketplace for the NFT tickets, but that could easily be a open source software suite that the venues themselves host. Gas price will probably be a lot less than ticketmaster fees.<p>Honestly it seems like the biggest problems here are that Ticketmaster in particular has a huge sway in the current venue and artist market, having contracts that require an artist or venue to exclusively use their ticketing system.
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