I'm not leaving Twitter. It seems more likely than not that Elon will reverse the ban on links to other social media sites. I just don't want to hang out there in the meantime. Plus given the way things are going, it seemed like a good time to learn about alternatives.<p>I still think Elon is a smart guy. His work on cars and rockets speaks for itself. Nor do I think he's the villain a lot of people try to make him out to be. He's eccentric, definitely, but that should be news to no one. Plus I don't think he realizes that the techniques that work for cars and rockets don't work in social media. Those two facts are sufficient to explain most of his behavior.<p>He could still salvage the situation. He's the sort of person it would be a big mistake to write off. And I hope he does. I would be delighted to go back to using Twitter regularly.
Amazing that just a month ago he tweeted[1]:
"It's remarkable how many people who've never run any kind of company think they know how to run a tech company better than someone who's run Tesla and SpaceX.".<p>It's been fascinating watching so many VC types ignore so many red flags just because some of Elon's early actions validated their priors (e.g. tech companies are bloated and need to layoff staff).<p>[1] <a href="https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1592852796185128961" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1592852796185128961</a>
Remember how George Lucas made Star Wars and became the genius billionaire who could do no wrong. Then he got a divorce and made Howard the Duck (quite possibly the worst movie of all time).<p>I think the same thing is happening here. As a startup founder you have guardrails, spouses, investors. You have Brian De Palma rewriting the opening trailer crawl, you have Marcia Lucas helping the edit, and you have your old professor at USC Irvin Kershner guiding your hand.<p>Now, Elon is the wealthiest man in the world and he has turned into Jar Jar Musk. It's time to see how this bird themed turd pans out.
There’s an old adage about never meeting your heroes that applies well to PG.<p>Some of his daily takes were so embarrassing and insipid that it was hard to maintain respect. It’s funny because his long form posts which are often insightful were likely reviewed/edited by a third person. A concept he has actually said only exists in the modern commercial publishing era.
Related ongoing thread:<p><i>Twitter Suspends PG's Account</i> - <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34044047" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34044047</a><p>I'm moving the current thread (the earlier one) off the front page, partly because these are more or less the same story, but mostly because the traffic on this is boiling our poor server and I need to resort to tricks. Sorry all!<p>In case you're not aware: you need to click on the "more comments" links at the bottom of the pages to get to the rest of the thread; also, you can make HN faster by logging out when it's keeling over. Also, genuine performance improvements shouldn't be too far off now.
For those wondering about how to sign up to mastodon and what server to pick:<p>It's like picking an email server. They all have their differences, but generally they are interoperable. You can read users from anywhere, and follow from anywhere. Better yet, it's fairly easy to move your account from one server to another if you don't like it.<p>Your best bet is some of the bigger second-tier servers (ones that have thousands but not hundreds of thousands of users) because they aren't as heavily loaded.<p><a href="https://instances.social/" rel="nofollow">https://instances.social/</a><p><a href="https://github.com/McKael/mastodon-documentation/blob/master/Using-Mastodon/List-of-Mastodon-instances.md">https://github.com/McKael/mastodon-documentation/blob/master...</a>
It's interesting to see these tech influencers and their lag time on giving Elon the benefit of the doubt before they've had enough. Will Elon ever have a "coming to jesus moment" and realize that he's alienated so many of his peers that he is, in fact, in the wrong? Or is he so delusional that he really does believe he has the answers?
This is his Mastodon account:<p><a href="https://mas.to/@paulg/with_replies" rel="nofollow">https://mas.to/@paulg/with_replies</a><p>His first toots remind me of his first tweets:<p><a href="https://twitter.com/paulg/status/22300310058" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/paulg/status/22300310058</a><p><a href="https://twitter.com/paulg/status/22307238459" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/paulg/status/22307238459</a>
They're literally banning mentioning your Mastodon handle.<p>Unbelievable. Like Paul, I will not be adhering to this absurd new rule. If they ban me for that, then I guess that's that.
Wow, Twitter is collapsing much faster than I expected. With PG and some other high-profile accounts gone, many will loose interest in their Twitter feed fast. Rinse and repeat.
It's news to me that that users are not allowed to mention other social networks' accounts on Twitter anymore. Seems short sighted, how many users is Twitter losing to Instagram/Discord/Mastodon?
Can't say about pg, but I left Twitter (I'm a regular, non-blue user) because the ads lately got out of control. Every other post is a promoted ad from a totally unrelated category, which I can't relate to. Ads targeting either stopped working, or Twitter allowed large numbers of low quality advertisers to push their ads.
> Twitter will no longer allow free promotion of specific social media platforms<p>I can foresee that Twitter Orange will be launched next week, which for 8$/month allows you to link to other social media platforms.<p>On a more serious tone, does anyone know if this is legal in the EU, given the recent Digital Services Act?
This should cause a significant degree of cognitive dissonance for quite a lot of Hacker News users. fascinating to see two members of the billionaire tech class disagree publicly like this.
My recent impression of pg is that he is raising his family and is wealthy beyond measure. He doesn't need to influence anyone, and aside from his small quips on startups, seems to be checked out. He's not irrelevant but not being on twitter has zero impact on his life, because he doesnt need a mouth piece anymore
There are a lot of things that happened where I could see both sides of the debate. As usual, a lot of outrage on Tweeter was more about the reflex of it than something really meaningful, the Tweeter files were underwhelming and I didn't find anything in the new Twitter that I thought was completely bonkers.<p>But this ban on link is, indeed, in my book, a bad move. And it will also make me reevaluate the past Tweeter drama in the light of this decision.<p>I always was of the opinion that eventually things would settle down and Twitter would go on its merry way.<p>But I'm not so sure anymore. I don't think I'll leave right now, but I'm not giving the benefit of the doubt to any of this anymore.
Seem crazy to leave Twitter to me.<p>Elon's takeover of Twitter is one of the most significant periods in Internet history.<p>It's a great show.<p>It's an education in how not to do things.<p>It's a thrill ride.<p>You get a front row seat for the show if you're on the platform.<p>I would have thought Paul Graham would want to be there because of all this.
How does one find a good Mastodon server? On his website it says "Follow me at @paulg@mas.to" -- does that mean that he is on mas.to? What if I want to follow him but also someone on another server? Or do I not understand how it works?
Regarding behavior of Twitter's current leadership, the personality of recent years...<p>When people who seem intelligent and sensible achieve success, and then start to have a kind of jerk-y metamorphosis, I wonder whether it's not just that their voice is amplified or no longer suppressed, nor that "power corrupts", but... whether and how much drugs are involved.<p>Imagine a stereotypical young Wall Street bro of decades past, who starts doing cocaine. If their personality changes, I might wonder how much it was the money, and how much it was the echo chamber in their new social scene, but one really can't ignore the coke (where at least temporary personality change is basically on the label as an effect).<p>With some people, I also wonder about the awful effects of sleep deprivation. But usually first about drugs.
For anyone who didn't see this tweet before it got pg suspended:<p>> This is the last straw. I give up. You can find a link to my new Mastodon profile on my site.
Unless there is a massive domino effect, there won't be even a blip on Twitter's MAU dashboard. With all respect to Paul, he only has 1.5M followers, which is not _that_ much. Let's be honest, how many people know Paul Graham outside of the tech industry? Justin Bieber has 113.6M followers. Rihanna has 107M followers. Heck, even Snoop Dogg has 20.8M followers. These are 20-100 times bigger accounts that are not going anywhere (yet).
The best thing to come out of all of this is people questioning their continued use of social media. Switching to Mastodon, it being different, not liking it and just dropping it all entirely. It's the BEST outcome. Social media is a fucking cancer on society and it's fantastic to see it being questioned. It's like soda and candy - empty calories that does absolutely nothing for you.
A really large use of social media is for corporate interests and "influencers" to cross promote themselves around different social media to increase their reach.<p>Banning Instagram and Facebook just pissed off a whole new group of people who previously didn't give any fucks about this at all.<p>It'll get real weird if he decides to be "consistent" and go after YouTube as well.
I'm glad I jump Twitter's sinking ship last week[1]. There's no way for Twitter to have a good outcome as long as Musk in on charge.<p>[1] <a href="https://notes.ghed.in/posts/2022/leaving-twitter/" rel="nofollow">https://notes.ghed.in/posts/2022/leaving-twitter/</a>
He didn't exactly say he's leaving Twitter. He said he disagrees with the moderation policy and gives a link to his Mastodon account.<p>That part about this being "the last straw" implies some change of view. Read in a certain way it could be a goodbye.<p>Kind of ambiguous and non-committal.
What happened to the early idea that the internet views censorship as damage and routes around it? If Musk keeps this up he's might as well buy Gab, Parlor and Truth Social and merge them with Twitter because that's the audience he'll have left.
It's baffling to me that Elon seems to be taking the opposite of a first-principles view on Twitter.<p>He fails to realize _why_ Twitter uniquely has the reach that it does. It's because it's platform-agnostic in a lot of ways. It's the base-level social protocol that all other platforms are adjacent to.<p>By removing that connection, it completely nerfs that influence and Twitter becomes just another social network.<p>I also fail to see how users could think this is reasonable considering Twitter has no way to upload long-form video. So how could YouTube be a competitor?<p>And the policy doesn't talk about Tiktok whatsoever, which is arguably an actual threat to Twitter, since it replaced Vine.<p>Overall, something's fishy.
There are a few types of people on twitter.<p>1. People building their business/brand. They are not going to like this, since the reason they are on Twitter is to build an audience. The idea that you share your handle from Twitter to Facebook .... and vice versa is good for everyone.<p>2. People who want to speak freely. Well you are telling them they can't offer another way to contact them. What if they are the last refuge for someone under oppression? Twitter is blocked in their country but nostr isn't (it would be hard to block)?<p>There are probably other groups as well. This move just makes Twitter a bit useless, which is much much worse than controversial for the site's popularity.
BTW, he's already backtracking and stating he has not "left twitter":<p><a href="https://indieweb.social/@paulg@mas.to/109536543079310226" rel="nofollow">https://indieweb.social/@paulg@mas.to/109536543079310226</a><p><i>"I haven't "left Twitter." I just don't want to keep using it while it's banning links to other sites. Plus given the way things are going, it seemed like a good time to learn more about Mastodon."</i><p>Expect Musk to reverse this policy, and all the people who were fine with all the even more terrible things to just hush down and return.
I don't use Twitter much and never followed pg there. I do read his pieces that get posted here. What would someone like me gain from having followed him on Twitter, or following him on some other platform now?
Maybe it is time for Google to fan their Social Network ambitions. They have enough brainpower to get a functional/scalable Mastodon server by Christmas. They may get the traction and later EEE it.
>You’ll be back<p>>It's not impossible. Elon is a smart guy. He doesn't currently understand how different social media is from cars and rockets, but he could well figure it out before it's too late.
I have for years posted to Twitter via LinkedIn. Presumably this is some kind of official relationship between the platforms or a sanctioned use of Twitters API.<p>I wonder what risk my Twitter account would have for closure? LinkenIn originated posts refer to LinkedIn if the post exceeds Twitters character limits.<p>(In case you’re wondering I do this to keep my Twitter active but avoid having to actually login and see Twitter :) )
It’s pretty common for platforms to combat promotion of competitor platforms on their sites.<p>I’m a member on the Clemson Rivals.com site and they regularly combat promoting competing sites. Have for years.<p>10 years ago I work for an audio equipment trading site and competitor sites constantly tried to use our own systems to promote their sites to our users.<p>IMO this behavior is fairly common and expected.
As a European, I'm surprised about the silence from Brussels around this. They're always really good at calling things anti-competitive, but this is just about the most anti-competitive thing I've ever seen and I've not heard anything about this yet. Maybe they're just slow, but it's kinda disappointing.
While trying to create an account on <a href="https://mas.to" rel="nofollow">https://mas.to</a>, I realized that Google disabled my newly created gmail address ... for violating Google policies or using a bot for creating the account (not of which are true I think).<p>Why does Mastodon require an email for signup?
It's fine for my use case. I only go to twitter through links, mostly from here and Reddit. IMO Mastodon has a slightly better interface for linked to reading but it's six of one, one half dozen of the other at the end of the day. Occasionally I read replies on tweets and always regret it...
Related to this - what's the deal with the HN new pages having a bunch of "[dupe] Twitter bans promotion of other social networks"? Shouldn't posting the same link add to its upvote count?<p>Paul Graham is specifically leaving because of this, feels like a pretty major topic of interest to HN...
There's a bit of Putin invading Ukraine effect - Putin and frankly probably most Russians and frankly everyone else realizes it's a mistake. But it would be the end of him if were perceived to 'fail' on such a grand scale. The Ukrainian invasion continues (aka ending untrained soldiers as fodder) in order to salvage his status, and indirectly, the reputation of Russia.<p>Elon might be perceived to be too 'damaged' to fix anything now - his credibility on Twitter shot, but, were he to do a giant 'mea culpa' right now and put some other person in charge, he might win a few points frankly but it's going to be really hard for him.<p>Perhaps Elon could make a 'Freedom of Expression Constitution' and then put someone in place to 'Enact the Constitution' - maybe he could head the 'Constitutional Board' and then walk away saying: 'I've done what I've come to do, Mars needs me more than Twitter, it's in good hands, I'm on the Constitutional Board to make sure they follow the right path!'. That would give him public cover for his motivations and maybe save just enough face for him to get out his own way. I suggest most people would agree Twitter could have used some reforms anyhow and so even if the market didn't buy the 'narrative' they would see the reality of the situation and some upside.
The tweet before ban:<p><a href="https://web.archive.org/web/20221218204403/https://twitter.com/paulg/status/1604556563338887168" rel="nofollow">https://web.archive.org/web/20221218204403/https://twitter.c...</a>
When it's our side o propaganda getting promoted and the other side censored it's "start your own platform, private companies don't owe you anything". When it's our side of propaganda getting censored it's "death of free speech".
I wonder when, if ever, mainstream migration will happen. For example most TV channels were posting World Cup goals on Twitter asap. Same if you follow for example NFL. Easy to follow the games with instant highlights. When will these leave or simply stop posting?
I'll admit that I didn't care much when Elon took over. I assumed it wouldn't have much impact on me. Now that he's compiling an ever-growing list of unacceptable speech, I've stopped using Twitter, and may very well not return.
I think Musk is intentionally creating controversies, as he can roll them back anytime after a poll. These antics get a lot of press coverage, and no longer impact the price of Twitter shares, so he can play around as much as he wants.
His pearl clutching at moderation decisions made by the old Twitter contrasts badly with his series of arbitrary, self-interested moderation decisions under his leadership. But hypocrisy is one other luxury of the perversely rich.
paulg has now been banned from twitter (presumably for noting that he was making a mastadon account)
<a href="https://twitter.com/paulg" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/paulg</a>
Paul, how do you reconcile your previous statements about how long (easy) it'd take to create something like Twitter with the reality of the challenges facing Elon <i>with an already built</i> Twitter?
It might be that I am too biased now, but when I visited twitter today the only feed that I saw (default ordering, whatever that is) was the blue mark tweets.
Anyone else experiencing something similar?
There should be a UI shortcut for bluechecks who want to post a dramatic tweet that they're leaving Twitter and then stay. Making the most common actions on the site easier would boost usability.
I think the preferred approach if you’re outraged about Twitter management, is speak out about it on Twitter, as opposed to quit in protest. Fight the fight if it’s worth it.
Related discussion: <a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34040165" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34040165</a>
Paul Graham has now been banned from Twitter: <a href="https://twitter.com/paulg" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/paulg</a>
He is a dog whistler but not surprised since he grew up in South Africa during the same time as I.<p>Roelof Botha shows it is possible to outgrow a toxic upbringing.
imagine still unironically saying stuff like “i support Elon's vision but this is a singular bad decision” — you either lack the capacity to understand there’s no vision here other than off the cuff decision making or wildly intellectually dishonest and are playing both sides.
"I haven't "left Twitter." I just don't want to keep using it while it's banning links to other sites. Plus given the way things are going, it seemed like a good time to learn more about Mastodon."<p><a href="https://mas.to/@paulg/109536542792559441" rel="nofollow">https://mas.to/@paulg/109536542792559441</a>
Here's the problem: <a href="https://mas.to/@paulg/109536476979036192" rel="nofollow">https://mas.to/@paulg/109536476979036192</a><p>I can see that he's replying to somebody, but can't actually see the conversation (presumably because there is some problem with the servers all trying to talk to each other to reassemble it?)<p>This is terrible.
pg is definitely not leaving Twitter. It’s impossible for two billionaires to quit each other. It’s a small close knit community and everyone is on first name terms with the other and their family. Not happening!
Twitter has done a lot of things worthy of boycotts. This seems like the least of them, though it does strike me as rather petty and telling (that the moves off Twitter are hurting). The whole thing is fascinating. Is he destroying Twitter or saving it? More time is needed to find out.
I'm in the same position as Paul Graham. Happy to support Elon... until he flagrantly broke the law. My twitter tabs are closed, when Twitter reverses I'll open them again. I was having fun.<p>IANAL but: You can't use market power to extend or preserve market power (monopoly isn't necessary nor the term in law.) The courts could and should enforce interoperability; never mind mentions of other services being censored. Restraint of trade.<p>There are lots of dumb criticisms of the transition - nothing is more difficult than changing a corporate culture, hence capitalism that allows the death of companies no matter how large. Changing software and systems is also difficult. Elon should be given time and considerable leeway. But the law is a bright red line.<p>Elon fired his main inhouse lawyer recently, he needs another fast. He'll figure out that this plow won't scour, and reverse himself, and I'll be back. If not, Congress or Biden will rectify the situation, probably with clear and close regulation of the sector.
People dramatically exiting twitter is childish to me. Why do you need validation for using social media? Also people having fake outrage over twitter drama and smear merchant journalists who push terms of service boundaries on purpose is equally childish. Grow up.
I think it’s beautiful that more and more people are being forced to confront what U.S plutocracy looks like in real-time. It’s usually caked in legalese and unspoken cultural assumptions that finance and tech people exploit while the rest of us just watch. Musk, Trump and a handful of these other cranks are turning this sociopathic toxic mess into real-time online cartoon that even a 13 year old can understand. The result can either be a new healthy awareness of how public policy is leveraged to make society more healthy and fair , or the Elon Musks of the world can continue living in a bubble, being flaming arrogant narcissist perpetually in fear of ending up like Paul Pelosi - in our real-time geo located world.
Elon Musk has done a lot of nasty things after taking over Twitter. He has acted basically like a conquerer taking over an evil country, then publicizing all the evil things that have been happening in the country: publicly deriding engineers and their work, deriding management decisions with his "Twitter files" exposés, public firings, followed by abusing remaining employees, refusing to pay bills, letting nazis and vaccine deniers back in, and so on.<p>Of all those things that Musk has done, the one that paulg chose to highlight is Twitter banning links to competitors? That doesn't even seem like an unreasonable restriction!
Totally agree and deleted all my excitement (Tweets) for Musk buying Twitter.<p>He's just another Trump/slick then unslick showman who says one thing then and promises one thing then goes back on that promise.<p>Telsa's self driving tech is lol<p>Another rich megolmaniac's mouth moron destroys years of public goodwill like Will Smith did in a second with that slap!
Sigh these ‘What is Elon Musk thinking?’ discussions are so tiresome, devoid of any useful content. Do we really need 600+ comments about this issue? Is everyone really so upset about some guy they don’t know?
It won't shock me if Elon is going alt-right to get the only remaining segment of the US population that is currently global warming deniers and ICE car pushers to start supporting Tesla/electric cars. If he gets conservatives and governments in Texas, Florida and other Red states to move to EVs, he'll really have done more for the environment than any other human alive.
Twitter will be part of the entertainment center of every self driving/electric car and new mobility device. That is where Daddy Musk is taking us. Either you get on board or you lose out and play with your VR toys from daddy Zuckerberg. Either way, you can't escape it. We are going ahead ladies and gents. I would get in early if I was you.<p>Just like Daddy Jobs did for most of us. RIP. Those that shared the vision went far.
Paul,<p>Why was it ok for you to be on Twitter when the platform was loaded with child porn?<p>And it seems a little hypocritical that this is the red line that cannot be crossed when you seem to have had no problem with other news outlets and journalists getting deplatformed.<p>Maybe get out of that glass house every now and again?
You know how Musk promises one thing and delivers something else? I'm not the biggest Musk fan but I believe he has a very effective process and he is a product person - that is understands what is a good product.<p>He will never deliver a free speech platform, he is a free-speech NIMBY and has an agenda os something that drives him but he can still turn Twitter into something valuable.<p>Then people will come back for whatever Twitter will become. But because he claimed free-speech absolutism he will be held accountable for it and his persona will degrade and people won't cut him a slack and that's the risk for him to fail completely. Until very recently he was able to get thousands of dollars of payment for a product that don't exists and he even jacked up the price over the years, many people are called frauds for less than this but Musk has huge social credit among the techies and He can continue selling that product and continue claiming that it will deliver next year - indefinitely.<p>He needs to figure out Twitter before his personality loses credit completely and losing the support of Paul Graham, a prominent persona from the scene, is not a good sign.