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Occupy Portland's Dec 3rd Tactic to Neutralize Police

173 pointsby nameless_noobover 13 years ago

19 comments

oldstrangersover 13 years ago
So their ground breaking discovery for outsmarting the police is to ... leave and then come back. And maybe play some music. The Art of War style write up is humorously grandiose for something so silly. These people take themselves entirely too seriously.<p>On another note, pay attention to whats happening over on Reddit and their attempt to unseat Paul Ryan in protest of SOPA/PIPA. They're putting their collective time, effort, and (most importantly) money into something that might actually have an effect. Ultimately, the 72 hours or so that Reddit has taken up this initiative is already appearing more effective than months of misguided OWS noise.<p>Going back even further, look at the Internet's success with GoDaddy and the few other companies changing their stance on SOPA. Get out of the streets already and go actually make a difference with some concentrated focus and brain power.
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corin_over 13 years ago
I don't know if this is a difference between UK and US police tactics, or if it's specific to Portland - I also don't know if it's the case that the difference was caused by not caring as much or just by not being as successful: UK police have done a much better job in the past, and rendered this article nonsense.<p>The key difference:<p><i>&#62; Since we had no clear destination, the police were unable to get ahead of us and set up roadblocks.</i><p>If the police have such small numbers that they cannot afford to take any manpower away from the back of the march then yes, obviously this is the case. But really, with police vans offering fast transport there is no reason they cannot prevent a moving demonstration from moving. Obviously, budget comes into play, for example police helicopters can help them see what is going on and help them create tactics to counter it.<p>An example of what I'm talking about is Kettling (<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling</a>), a term which has only really gained popularity in the press in the last few years, but police (at least in the UK) have used this method for a hell of a long time - not always as viciously as the image most people think of for the term now, that of demonstrators being stuck and not allowed out for hours and hours.
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tptacekover 13 years ago
So here's HN in 2012: the Hiring Thread, which leads this month with a chorus of comments about how effective HN has been for finding people awesome jobs or companies awesome candidates, is at the bottom of the front page just a few hours after submission.<p>Meanwhile, "Occupy Portland's Dec 3rd Tactic to Neutralize Police" is at the top.<p>It's unsurprising. The kinds of people who are interested in Occupy protest tactics are <i>very vociferously interested</i>. The kinds of people who are interested in the hiring thread aren't nearly as engaged with that topic (or, those who are aren't numerous). "Real", on-topic HN threads are at a systemic disadvantage to advocacy topics like Occupy.<p>Flagged, for whatever good that will do.
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mhartlover 13 years ago
The military analogy is broken. The hack isn't to use the superiority of "light infantry" over "heavy infantry", etc. The reason the protestors can "take a park" even when the police oppose them is because they operate in a political system where the police can't fire on crowds. You probably think this is always a good thing. That's the hack.
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pvarangotover 13 years ago
Please if you think you will ever take part in a protest, for the sake of your own safety and that of your co-protestors, don't read this article. Or if you already did, don't take it seriously.<p>It has a misleading title, and poor and <i>dangerous</i> content. Protests and police columns so don't work that way that it's actually dangerous for this to be on the front page and upvoted by so many people.<p>I do agree with most of what Occupy is about, but if the writer of this post is trying to make any political point, he is failing.<p>Also, I think that a blog and an HN thread are so not the place to learn about how to safely occupy public space and how to participate in a protest, that I simply don't understand how hard some are trying for it to be that place...
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jdietrichover 13 years ago
What annoys me most about the Occupy movement is that they aren't even intellectually active enough to study other contemporary protest movements. I'm staggered at the number of people involved in Occupy who genuinely see police as a bunch of cretinous thugs and don't imagine that they might organise international conferences or share case studies.<p>Public order policing has been a game of cat-and-mouse for decades, following the movements of European anarchists around the usual circuit of Mayday protests, G8 conferences and arms fairs. It's a highly evolved field and there are extensive playbooks on both sides.<p>This strategy was devised years ago, in response to police lines being used to control and prevent marching. A core group, usually a Black Bloc, lead other protesters in a fast march, choosing their direction only at the last possible second. The goal is to move faster than police dispatchers can react, preventing the police from establishing organised lines quickly enough. The police response in the UK is pre-emptive kettling[1], in much of the rest of the world a mix of roadblocks and simple brutality. Unless the protesters are angry enough to run into a baton charge or prepared enough to run into CS gas, it's a completely ineffective tactic.<p>Some commenters seem to believe that kettling would be illegal under US law; It may well be, but that hasn't stopped the extensive use of "free speech zones"[2] to pre-emptively restrict the movement of protesters. Without a Supreme Court ruling, there's nothing to stop Portland PD or anyone else from using kettles.<p>[1] <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling" rel="nofollow">https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kettling</a> [2] <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_speech_zone</a>
josephkernover 13 years ago
The author:<p>1. Underestimates the superiority and effectiveness of the Command and Control of the police force<p>2. Overestimates the superiority of a mob vs a phalanx.<p>3. Makes generalized assumptions over why the police allowed them to stay.<p>4. Assumes that the police will not use their formation with calvary (automobiles, aricraft, and actual horses) as a means of denying the flank or the retreat.<p>This reads like someone who just went through a college course in ancient combat and has little practical experience in the matter of Command and Control or strategic thinking.
namidarkover 13 years ago
They're still around? Why dont they go protest where it matters in Washington infront of Congress et al instead of on private property or places that make small businesses lose business.
graupelover 13 years ago
Sounds like the way Critical Mass (cycling) rides in Chicago work - with no pre-set route the police join in and make sure no one gets hurt but they can't really push the ride in one direction or another - the 'hive' decides where to go. With 5,000 to 10,000 people it's a pretty huge event/example.
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pnathanover 13 years ago
Wisdom would dictate reviewing the usual fate of disorganized barbarians versus Roman legions.
cpetersoover 13 years ago
To keep the park, one must leave the park.<p>Why the military tactics and metaphors? Many occupiers seem more interested in "fuckin' shit up" than expressing a message. In Oakland, the city was willing to let people assemble every day (when other people would actually <i>see</i> their protest), but the occupiers insisted that anything less than camping in Frank Ogawa Plaza was defeat.
andrewflnrover 13 years ago
If you want to destroy civilization, this is a pretty good start. Good practice anyway. But if you want to make positive change, forcing police to resort to brutality to restore order for people who are just trying to live their lives is stupid.<p>Edit: instead of downvoting, try to explain why this is a good idea.
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nameless_noobover 13 years ago
What drew me to this article was it's discussion of the tactics a unorganized group can do and try all at once. A neat superposition of several topics.<p>Like a glorified case of the wisdom of crowds.
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Anechoicover 13 years ago
"Get the music blaring [...]"<p>This piece of advice will get people fined (and possibly arrested) for violating noise ordinances in many municipalities. You're better off marching silently.
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da5eover 13 years ago
&#62;They're putting their collective time, effort, and (most importantly) money into something<p>The Occupy protesters put their BODIES into something. Both approaches are important.
marshrayover 13 years ago
"Fixed fortifications are a monument to the stupidity of man." - Gen. George S. Patton
georgieporgieover 13 years ago
I think Occupy is the most interesting (and, yes, annoying, but that's part of the method) political development in recent history. This article, however, was very long, with little meaningful content, and I don't see how it's of particular interest to HN. Flagged.
Shenglongover 13 years ago
Gist of the article: They don't have to occupy jobs, so they can win their war of attrition.
motofordover 13 years ago
The writer should use his superior "military style" tactics to get a job.<p>Maybe their plan worked because the police decided it wasn't worth wading thru their feces and syringes every few hours.