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Unbundling Tools for Thought

337 pointsby exp1orerover 2 years ago

66 comments

hardwaregeekover 2 years ago
I have a blog post that I&#x27;ve been sketching out in my head about this whole area of Tools for Thought, future of computing, cybernetics, etc. Basically I find that the thoughtleaders of this space seem to always claim that the <i>true</i> manifestation of their ideas is just out of reach (Project Xanadu, memex, object oriented programming, etc.), but then never deliver this true manifestation.<p>Indeed it&#x27;s rather remarkable how many of these figures like Vannevar Bush, Alan Kay, Douglas Engelbart, etc., never actually shipped much. Now, you could argue that they were ahead of their time and couldn&#x27;t ship, and for some of these people you would be right. But c&#x27;mon now, Alan Kay is still kicking, and still talking about how programming should be reinvented. Douglas Engelbart lived into the 2010&#x27;s. It&#x27;s more that these fantastical futuristic ideas, if they were released, would probably not live up to their sales pitches. They&#x27;re all chasing the high of Engelbart&#x27;s famous demo. And their followers, who are perpetually waiting, who attempt interpretations of these thoughtleaders ideas and get dismissed as flawed manifestations, well they are essentially the parish. They&#x27;re waiting for the second coming.<p>This isn&#x27;t to say that none of these people have accomplished stuff. They have accomplished an extraordinary amount. But they are fundamentally salesmen, salesmen for the future. And salesmen only have a job as long as they have something to sell.
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agileAlligatorover 2 years ago
&gt; Pointlessness of Organization: my Calibre and Zotero libraries are a mess. But is that bad? Is there any point to organizing them? I can always find what I need, either by searching or browsing, because I have a spatial sense of where each book is in Calibre’s big grid view. If I went through everything in Calibre and Zotero, and fixed the titles, added missing authors, publishers, publication years, fixed the cover images—what then? What have I gained? Nothing. It is a waste of time to organize things too much.<p>On reading this, I felt like I already sort of knew this, and this internet stranger validated my thoughts.
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idearootsover 2 years ago
My non-obvious observation after five years in this field:<p>In essence, journalling is similar to a psychotherapy session.<p>The clarity of mind you get after a journalling session comes from structuring things in your head, not in your TfT tool.<p>Yet, as one would expect, people project that feeling onto a tool — which leads to more time invested.<p>Ultimately after the N-th session, when you try to use the tool to get more of that feeling — you get the opposite, burnout, and then people switch to a new TfT app for the same cycle.<p>These benefits are why &quot;Daily Pages&quot; were vital to Roam Research&#x27;s success. Not the bi-directional links or graphs as many think.<p>&quot;Daily Pages&quot; get you closer to a new therapeutic session, which is what you want most of the time.<p>I use :<p><pre><code> - paper notebooks. - remarkable 2 - markdown&#x2F;notion + NeuraCache [I&#x27;m a founder] for flashcards and spaced repetition </code></pre> + I&#x27;ve been in group and individual therapy for three years now.<p>I have never been happier with my setup.
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exp1orerover 2 years ago
This was the bit that got me:<p>&gt; People have this aspirational idea of building a vast, oppressively colossal, deeply interlinked knowledge graph to the point that it almost mirrors every discrete concept and memory in their brain. And I get the appeal of maximalism. But they’re counting on the wrong side of the ledger. Every node in your knowledge graph is a debt. Every link doubly so.
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bleedingover 2 years ago
I&#x27;ve tried to use a &quot;personal wiki&quot; in professional life and found that I did not really use the functionality. What re-occurring concepts need to be linked back to? AWS? APIs? Perhaps I&#x27;m just not a very good professional note-taker, but my brief experimentation didn&#x27;t really feel useful.<p>What I _have_found it very useful for is D&amp;D notes. People, places, objects come up on a re-occurring basis and it is often useful to have a description, encounters, relationships to other people&#x2F;places&#x2F;things in a page, or even just a place to list all of those things! You can easily go from session journal -&gt; a bunch of new pages about things, or updates to existing ones in a brief review after the session. It took me a while to actually do the organization but the upkeep is now easy, and I will have a place to recall the name of the inn we we stayed at in our first session in Fantasyville.
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atomashevicover 2 years ago
I&#x27;ve spent a good (unproductive) part of 2022 tinkering with notes&#x2F;TfTs and I&#x27;m stuck with &quot;optimizing&quot; note-taking for more than few years (started with zettelkasten and Roam Research I guess).<p>I&#x27;m stopping with all of that - zero results and tons of wasted time (and fair ammount of subscription money). If I spent all that time tinkering with LaTeX at least I would leveled up my skills.<p>Judging from comments on HN, I&#x27;m not alone and quite a few of us went down weird notetaking rabbit holes. I&#x27;ll just stick with few scratch plaintext files and handwritten legal pad notes to capture stuff as I work and then transfer&#x2F;delete stuff at the end of the day without any special system behind the whole process.
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dchukover 2 years ago
Capture now, fast. Organize on the fly with searches and filters.<p>I have this whole app sketched up where the idea is you just focus on writing notes and thoughts in one continuous stream, jumping around topics as you go like most professionals do, and then use searches and filters you can save to render different contexts easily from the single stream.<p>So you can switch between reviewing your work 1 on 1 history and your Christmas gift ideas with a change of a filter. You don’t have to worry about organizing anything, it’s all just a single stream of content and then searches.<p>I’ll likely never build it, but I’m convinced that would be the way I want to write notes. I don’t want a knowledge graph, I want a stream of consciousness capture tool with a way to use tags searches and filters to make sense of it.<p>Oh also: I want to write some notes in handwriting on my iPad, and then ocr and clean up those notes to be liked I typed them, but still preserve the original handwriting. I desperately want to be able to hand write notes sometimes, type them sometimes, have them all in one place, and have that place be a stream of consciousness and searchable.<p>One day.
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SebastianKraover 2 years ago
Much of the backlash to these tools seems to assume that they require significant devotion and time.<p>I just use it to store my stuff. I don&#x27;t spend much time organising it.<p>I had trouble organising my data in folders, so I tried Bear Notes, and it helped.<p>From there, I just came up with a few conventions to deal with the problems that emerged over time - similarly to how someone would define their personal folder-hierarchy. For example, having a page for every contact helped, because I often find myself looking for &quot;that thing that Tom showed me&quot;.<p>But the biggest advantage is that whatever I&#x27;m looking for is in one location, only a short full-text search away.<p>---<p>&gt; Every node in your knowledge graph is a <i>debt</i>. Every link doubly so.<p>I have 5000 notes - most of them are useless. But it costs me nothing to keep them.
type-rover 2 years ago
&gt; Every node in your knowledge graph is a debt. Every link doubly so.<p>I do agree with the first part of this sentence, but I think that the second is a little more nuanced. The first few &#x27;links&#x27; among nodes in a knowledge graph I do think generally represent more debt (probably less than the node itself, though). As the links increase and the knowledge graph gets denser, I feel that things start to flip and each individual node&#x2F;link actually gets increasingly easy to recall.<p>For a specific example: learning how to conjugate a verb in a foreign language and learning a bunch of words out of context is going to be hard to retain over the long-term. However, combining those into a fill-in-the-blank kind of sentence once you know enough actually becomes easier and supports knowledge of all that you&#x27;ve learned. This is just a simple example but once you know about it, you start seeing it everywhere, regardless of the topic under study.<p>Anyway, I enjoyed the article. I have gone all-in on Anki and sometimes I get concerned that I&#x27;m missing out on the newest software. Articles that remind us that the best system is the one that you use are important to have around.
crazygringoover 2 years ago
A side note, but is anyone else experiencing a font size so large as to make it almost unreadable?<p>Viewing it on my laptop, the CSS font size is set to 2 rem, which means each letter takes up <i>four times</i> as much space as default body text (which is 1 rem, usually 16 px -- so this is 32 px size). Even worse, if you zoom out, it detects that and compensates by setting it to 2.5 rem (40 px), or over 6 times as large in area! It&#x27;s trying to <i>force</i> bizarrely big-headline-sized body text, even against the user&#x27;s wishes.<p>I&#x27;ve seen this bizarre creeping growth of font sizes across some personal blogs over the last decade, but I&#x27;ve never seen a case <i>this</i> extreme.<p>(And remember that, for comparison, traditional OS UI elements tend to be around the 12 px size and sometime even smaller, so a 32-40 px size is truly gargantuan.)
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coldbluesover 2 years ago
I use Logseq currently. I just simply write in my Journals or a page, then I add the backlinks on a whim, and leave it be. Whenever I need that information again, it will be found by using the backlinks, if I don&#x27;t remember what I&#x27;m even searching for.<p>That&#x27;s all I do. It&#x27;s simple, convenient, and doesn&#x27;t break my flow with unnecessary complexity. I just write and link.<p>That kind of Zettelkasten note-taking workflow is what caught my attention and it&#x27;s currently the only way I can take notes.<p>People who create complicated note-taking workflows using databases and such, they&#x27;re very bizarre people to me. I can&#x27;t do any of that without recoiling. But I can dump information into my graph and link it all together all day if I got into the flow. It&#x27;s just &quot;natural&quot;.
going_hamover 2 years ago
I am pretty sure you hit the spot. I do not even write notes these days. I just work and if it is important enough for me, I trust my brain to recall. If it can&#x27;t recall, I search the web. However, this time I have different context so each new search is unique. I discover different ways of doing things. Sometimes, it&#x27;s better than what I used to do. As a result, I only focus on high level problem solving. This way, I don&#x27;t care about small details and remain faithful to general context. What do I gain from this? Long term ability to solve problem. Each problem I solve, makes me think more on my thinking process. As a result, I optimized surroundings in a way it helps me think and reason rather than note and forget.
bachmeierover 2 years ago
I disagree with some of the ideas in this piece.<p>&gt; And yet I don’t use them. Why? Building them was fun, sure, but there must be utility to a personal database.<p>There is utility in doing things that are fun. Even if that fun thing does not increase your productivity. There are deeper issues if enjoying how you spend your time is a problem.<p>&gt; Pointlessness of Organization: my Calibre and Zotero libraries are a mess. But is that bad? Is there any point to organizing them? I can always find what I need, either by searching or browsing<p>If you know where to look and how to find your stuff, you&#x27;re sufficiently organized.<p>&gt; migrating everything from my filesystem, from Calibre, from Zotero, from my browser bookmarks, etc. is a huge process<p>This is a common claim, but the truth is that there&#x27;s no need to move, say, files into a new system. The simplest thing to do is keep a note listing where you can find stuff outside the new system. Been doing that for years, and it&#x27;s never failed.<p>Finally, I don&#x27;t like the conflation of tools for thought with spending large amounts of time on useless things. People use cars to get away after robbing banks. The question is whether the problem is car ownership or how criminals use their time.
rasengan0over 2 years ago
Great article and highlights the cyclical hype of PKMS. I use FountainPens and Paper. RandyPausch was&#x2F;is a TimeManagement guru and inspires. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.cmu.edu&#x2F;~pausch&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cs.cmu.edu&#x2F;~pausch&#x2F;</a> KeepItSimple. PaidFor SubscribedTo literally every MajorPkms DigitalGarden Wiki MindMap GewGaw aka ToolsForThought out there. But thoughts are cheap along with storage (SdCard) and backup (RsyncBackupScript) There is simply no reason not to enjoy ExternalizeThinking with DigitalTools (and have it centralized) Now for the last 9 years feel like I am making my own language and talking to itself.<p>Literally my Year2022Review took a few keystrokes and under a few minutes to process.[1]<p>WuWei is the way.<p>Live in the terminal both in DayJob and Personal; UseVim; no FileExtensions; CamelCase = thought = node; ISO8601 DateTimeStamp every node; Mimimal DataStructure or VimOutliner prn; F<i>ck Markup MarkDown, PlainText is LazyGenius; FrictionlessSystem, ZeroMaintenance<p>Capture in GuiBrowser<p>CaptureBookmark DataUrl<p>javascript:(function(){let text=&quot;&quot;; if(window.getSelection()!=&#x27;&#x27;){text=window.getSelection().toString()+&quot;\n&quot;;}prompt(&quot;Press Ctrl+C, Escape&quot;, text+&quot;\n&quot;+document.title+&quot; &quot;+location.href);})()<p>[1] Year2022Review Method in local .&#x2F;.exrc in 128G sd card<p>Have cursor on 2022 then ,b in NormalMode<p>where nmap ,b :r !. .&#x2F;backlinks.sh &lt;C-R&gt;&lt;C-W&gt;&lt;CR&gt;<p>and .&#x2F;backlinks.sh is<p>#!&#x2F;usr&#x2F;bin&#x2F;sh term=$1 for file in $term do echo $file rg -l -i $file -g &#x27;!</i>.*&#x27; | sed &#x27;s&#x2F;^&#x2F;\t&#x2F;g&#x27; done
joshspankitover 2 years ago
I was sparked on this “one graph” idea <i>real hard</i> when I learned about graph databases (which I still say has one of the biggest marketing hurdles to overcome since graph and database mean very specific and well-rooted things) and I will say something that was a blind spot until recently:<p><i>Neurotypical people don’t normally think in terms of connections.</i><p>Many of my peers (ended up interviewing probably 100 of them) for example felt that the standard testing questions of “X is to Y as A is to _____” were thrown in to give everyone a break.<p>Neuroypical people can even struggle to understand analogy while to the ND folk they can be as fluid and understandable as breathing or walking.<p><i>This</i> is why I think there are significant gaps in the market as OP pointed out.<p>To get there it takes someone who:<p>- Thinks with connections as a “first class citizen” (this might even just be the subcategory of kinaesthetic learners)<p>- Has the programming skills to create a useful tool for scratching their own itch<p>- Has the awareness that other people might have the same problem, and further has the interest in doing (10?x) the work to make it generally useful for others<p>- Has the marketing skills and&#x2F;or the connections required to get visibility and traction<p><i>Then</i> to take it to the next level they have to prove that there is a market for it. If none of us understand that the market is small to start with, it would be understandable for someone to see 10% of that market as a complete waste of time since it’s 0.0&#x2F;\d*&#x2F;1% of the market they assumed they were targeting.<p>I may be entirely off the mark. I’ve been thinking about this for a few years during my transition to software development and having conversations as I go but a lot of these thoughts are still internally-compassed.
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groby_bover 2 years ago
The value in bundled &quot;Tools for Thoughts&quot; isn&#x27;t just that you can interconnect everything - unless you actively research and want to synthesize something new, that&#x27;s in fact overvalued.<p>The true value (at least to me) lies in the fact that <i>all</i> my information is stored in a human-readable and interchangeable format. It makes you independent of vendor whims. It enables the creation of custom tools if and when you need them.<p>The fact that I can click on shiny links just satisfies my desire for toys :)
boopmasterover 2 years ago
As limited as OneNote is, I find it the place I keep returning to. Obsidian was extremely off-putting to me when I last tried it out, as the node parents themselves could not be documents. Or I couldn&#x27;t figure out how to use them that way! Maybe it&#x27;s just me!<p>Beyond that, I have a fondness for wikis that permit breadcrumbs from excerpts back to a main documents. Giving the right information in the right place, with a centralized main resource that is carved up. This strategy is super useful to prevent dead instruction sprawl.<p>I once read (in someone else&#x27;s wiki) that all documentation is a memorial to some time in the past. That really stuck with me for years now. When you hit &quot;save&quot; it&#x27;s already in a state of decay.<p>I am talking about sharing of information and maintenance of knowledge stores though, and that perhaps is a different beast than cataloging ones own interests.
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larveover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m someone who feels very happy about my sprawling obsidian vault, combining journal, project notes, wiki, flashcards, zettelkasten, drafts, finished writing. I use pretty much no plugin, but I do have different methodologies that have emerged in multiple waves.<p>I started with just notes in bear, crosslinking when i saw fit, until that turned into 300 notes where I couldn&#x27;t find anything. Tags and folders never stuck, and I abandoned those pretty quickly.<p>That&#x27;s when I switched to obsidian, with a few very broad top level folders (projects, logs, zettelkasten, writing). Over time, this filled up too, and the zettelkasten got split into wiki and zettelkasten. The zettelkasten filled up, so I added index notes and structure notes and a numbering scheme.<p>The only plugins I use are some templates and the graph analysis plugin to help me find things I haven&#x27;t linked yet. As said, most of the logic is in my workflow &#x2F; way of tagging things. I don&#x27;t care about being organized as much as I care about regularly using the vault.<p>Now that I&#x27;m relying more on research and external reading, I am integrating readwise and developing a workflow around that.<p>I&#x27;m sure though that if I were to document my setup, it would seem overengineered and impossible to use and over ambitious, but the fact is that it&#x27;s very organic for me.<p>While there is some truth to the feeling that many people over-engineer and get overwhelmed with plugins and methodologies, I know many of us who just silently enjoy their vaults and plow away and are perfectly productive. If anything, I would indulge in the recurring urge to get to know better systems, but the foremost thing is having fun. I really enjoy my sunday mornings where I just write and throw things in there. I&#x27;ve had a 2 months pause, where I mostly kept to daily logs and drafts, but I&#x27;m about to go back to &quot;proper&quot; content management.<p>Furthermore, I can easily publish the vault and have a site that is not a chronological blog with edited posts. My writing is messy, iterative, raw, sprawling, multimedia, and pressing publish still gives me a clear signal &quot;you finished something.&quot;<p>My vault is here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;publish.obsidian.md&#x2F;manuel" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;publish.obsidian.md&#x2F;manuel</a>
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habitueover 2 years ago
The author has some really good points, and I think anyone building or using a tool like this should be able to take a hard look at what the tool is actually doing for them personally, vs what it seems like it could potentially be useful for.<p>One big limitation is time: it takes a lot of time to write things in, say, Roam. You need to be getting commensurate benefit for the time invested. If you aren&#x27;t sure what the benefit is, except &quot;one day maybe I&#x27;ll read through all this again and then...&quot; it&#x27;s probably not worth it. You can make write-only documents anywhere, no need to organize and hyperlink them.<p>On the other hand, sometimes the amount of friction in using a tool is the issue. Something can be completely impractical when it&#x27;s doable in principle but has high cost, vs when it is pervasive and effortless. Software that actively searches for associations with what you&#x27;re currently writing and presents them to you could be much more valuable than software that lets you follow hyperlinks if you want, but you don&#x27;t actually bother doing it.<p>Finally, I&#x27;ll say there&#x27;s also the fact that humans need to accrete habits slowly over time. If you find&#x2F;build a notetaking tool with 10,000 plugins, well ok, knowing that the plugins exist is one thing, but you won&#x27;t actually use them or get value out of them until your brain has indexed them and you&#x27;ve formed a habit that is triggered by a recurring context you will find yourself in.
keizoover 2 years ago
I&#x27;ve found most apps too slow or too complex. So much that I&#x27;ve spent the last 3 months building another one, kinda like the author. Maybe my use case is different than most as I only spend 20% of my workday on the computer, but I&#x27;m convinced there are others like me. Roam Research was compelling and I paid the $500 two years ago. But found the friction and 12 second load time too slow. I downloaded my graph and realized it&#x27;s only 250k of text -- maybe I&#x27;m a light note taker. Either way, sticking text on a server side rendered webpage seems reasonable. I have my entire graph on one page. Most of the time, ctrl-f will find what I need. Trying to do autotagging and some fun things with open ai. It&#x27;s unpolished but online if anyone wants to give it a go. Just a hair above plain text files. grugnotes.com -- tech stack is django, htmx on google cloud run. Haven&#x27;t done much coding in past 10 years, so skipped all the js frameworks and loving it.
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maireover 2 years ago
By coincidence I am moving off of Evernote right now. I broke down everything I used Evernote for right now to plan the roll off.<p>I largely use EN for the GTD system. The first GTD step is just capturing info. EN still does this better than any other tool.<p>EN used to be better at managing large data - but the last major release broke all that. For some reason they favored the new user over the power user.<p>Some of the things I used to use EN for are now baked into the OS. For instance, the latest release of MacOS now has text search on images. The rise of icloud also got rid of many of my use cases.<p>What I am doing now is putting files in files and notes in notes. I am converting some notes to files.<p>I took to heart the scalability issues in EN, and decided to run several note taking apps in parallel. After a while I will just pick a winner.<p>Sadly - I have not found a replacement for data capture. EN seems to be the only tool that converts email to a note. I might keep the free version of EN around for this task, but I am still looking for a replacement.
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dangomover 2 years ago
Part of the appeal for &quot;Tools for Thought&quot; is that by using them we feel we are taking action towards being productive, regardless of whether that turns out to be true of not.<p>The falacy comes, I believe, from the combination of two facts: 1. much of the intellectual work we do these days simply takes time. No amount of writing can accelerate that beyond our biological limit of learning, so we might as well just sit and think. 2. Just sitting and thinking is considered unproductive and regarded as lazyness, so we believe we should be writing even more instead.<p>In that regard, using tools for thought may be pointless, since all we need is time to think. But perhaps that pointlessness serves a purpose. Like a guardrail in a highway, tools for thought are not something we &quot;really need&quot;, but they&#x27;re there to at least keep us on track in case we were to drift away while our minds move forward.
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voidhorseover 2 years ago
I tried something similar a while back after struggling to use obsidian myself. I unbundled and subscribed to todoist as well, switched to supernotes for notecard style notes etc.<p>I think ultimately it just comes down to people having different needs. It turns out I don&#x27;t really need a second brain style knowledge base. All I need is a solid mobile text editor. It also turns out I only need to plan out tasks on a weekly scale. A daily scale is too granular for me at this given moment in time.<p>When you adopt these heavyweight systems before really understanding <i>why</i> you need them or if you even need them to begin with it very quickly becomes a procrastination trap where, as the article mentions, you&#x27;re spending far more time managing the system for the sake of the system than you are actually using it for anything meaningful.
joe8756438over 2 years ago
For a lot of things I agree organization is over-rated, but for some things it&#x27;s essential. And, in any case -- collecting things whether organized or not is super important.<p>I think the act of capturing notes, todos, bookmarks, and other things, all involve the same _impulse_ and _function_. Whether a great idea strikes, remembering a quote from a good article you just read, or capturing an important piece of data.<p>It turns out, there are all kinds of things that need collecting that don&#x27;t fit neatly into a practice like: note-taking or todo lists or bookmarks. Transactions, events, and formulas are three other types I use extensively. But the act of collecting is the same: at random times you need to record some information.<p>In an ideal world you need a button available everywhere and when pressed an input instantly materializes ready to record the desired information. It gets saved somewhere safe, accessible from any place, where it is easy to find, where it can be put to use without much effort, etc.<p>I think it&#x27;s extremely beneficial to consolidate information in the same system if that information is processed in the same way. This is where I see a ton of redundancy between tools and it drove me crazy enough to build a solution myself, Tap [1].<p>A couple notes specific to Tap and the solution I&#x27;ve come up with:<p>To make this capture-anything from anywhere system work, I believe the format needs to be text. But, I don&#x27;t think a structured data format with a schema definition is the answer, nor do I think markdown is a good fit.<p>Tap uses a format designed specifically for Tap called sowhat [2]. It&#x27;s a tiny syntax for parsing tokens that carry special meaning. Above all, it is intended to be easy for humans to write. This allows collecting information via SMS and email trivial.<p>1. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tatatap.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tatatap.com</a> 2. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tatatap-com&#x2F;sowhat">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tatatap-com&#x2F;sowhat</a>
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justindiroseover 2 years ago
One criticism I have of the TfT&#x2F;PKM space (as a member of it) is it often puts too much onus on the tool or system you use. The human element is often diminished in favor of replicating our brains in our notes.<p>So instead of making connections in your mind while using the TfT app as an external thought workspace, we put this extra process on top to make the TfT system a replication of our brains in and of itself. For most people, this is an unsustainable effort (myself included).<p>As I see it, the tool is simply the place we work out ideas and how we mentally relate them to one another. Whether a plaintext file or an interlinked set of notes is sufficient to achieve that end goal is up to the individual.
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sureglymopover 2 years ago
I basically just want a &quot;daily&quot; journal. I find that is enough because information i mostly want to retrieve was journaled on previous days near the top of the stack.<p>What I want though is for a note taking app to have CalDav and CardDav sync support. It can just be read only. But I want to refer to and link to Contacts, Calendar events and E-Mails. That&#x27;s pretty much all i use to &quot;organize life&quot;. I recently set up all my calendars in Thunderbird and it&#x27;s awesome to have all calendars in one view!
pflenkerover 2 years ago
My two golden rules of note taking: 1) taking notes is superior to not taking notes. It structures your thoughts and helps you think. The actual note is of less value than the process of writing it. 2) beware the productivity tarpit. It’s fun to jump on the next blog post about how to get your obsidian setup right, but moving your notes from setup a to setup b generates only few insights (when you re read a note long forgotten perhaps). Movement does not equal progress.
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eternityforestover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m still not 100% happy with the existing tools for thought.<p>So far, Google Keep is by far my favorite in terms of experience, because it&#x27;s blazing fast, plus it has Android widget and Google Assistant integration..<p>But I don&#x27;t fully trust it to always be around, so I don&#x27;t use it for anything long term, just shopping and to do lists, and quick notes to be copied somewhere safer later.<p>For calendar-like stuff, I use Google Calendar, for the same reasons.<p>I tend to think of privacy as a specialist tool not generally needed, so I use BitWarden&#x27;s secure note feature to record anything I&#x27;d rather have encrypted.<p>Finally, for long term notes and journalling, I use Obsidian and SyncThing. But I dislike that Obsidian takes 8 seconds or so to load up, and has no widget to keep always-open, that&#x27;s just way too much friction for something I&#x27;m relying on as a second brain.<p>If Keep had a markdown sync feature that would keep all notes synced to a portable folder of markdown guaranteed to be there if the service goes down or an app update breaks something, and if they had hierarchal organization features, I would probably use them for everything.<p>All in all, with all the talk about tools for thought, it&#x27;s way behind a lot of other areas of software despite having no real technical challenges besides the difficulty of maintaining a cross platform set of apps with all the integrations and widgets and performance optimizations.<p>I guess that&#x27;s the problem, there&#x27;s a lot of tedium and no interesting algorithms, so it doesn&#x27;t get as much interest.
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patttover 2 years ago
I tried taking notes for learning and brainstorming over the years but found it incredibly difficult, not because of a lack of note taking frameworks, apps or technologies but because _sustaining_ this process is hard. Reading posts like these makes me quite envious of author’s dedication. Recently I was contemplating about a possible lightweight middle ground solution where I think a more polished software would certainly help - _highlighting_. Imagine if you could simply highlight&#x2F;select any text&#x2F;image on the screen of any app (ok, let’s start with the few), optionally assign different colors, tags and have those highlights automatically synchronized in a sort of a searchable personal diary format. The main feature of such tool would be cropping and indexing what’s already read and seen as opposed to having to summarize&#x2F;rephrase or enrich it with your own notes. Why I think software in this case reducing friction to a minimum would help? As opposed to taking notes, identifying illuminating corner-stone paragraphs and sentences mostly feels like an implicit process that happens naturally at least in my experience.
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srinathkrishnaover 2 years ago
This was a nice read and resonated with me a lot especially around how productivity gurus shill every single app out there.<p>I’ve always felt processes &gt; tools and whatever tool(s) work for you, you ought to stick with it rather than get into a FOMO wheel and try every app out there. Peddlers of these apps are innumerable and YouTube definitely doesn’t shy away from recommending this sort of content.<p>Even simple text files in a reasonably defined file organization scheme is more than sufficient. This post also gave a name for this - collection management, which I’ve been thinking for a while. More often than not, there are these collections of items&#x2F;lists that I end up having to track and the ideal bit missing is some process and a low friction tool to get there.<p>Another thing is the fetish for using a _single_ tool which is self-hostable which plagues the world today. While a younger me would’ve been onboard for this thinking, at this point in my life, the only thing probably matters is local-first and I’ve long given up the hope for a single tool, taking inspiration from the world of Unix tools.
SirensOfTitanover 2 years ago
I use the following for knowledge:<p>* Logseq for notes. 95% of these eventually are spaced repetition flash cards. The anki plugin for Logseq is incredibly good.<p>* Lunatask for habits and tasks.<p>* Readwise reader for reading everything.<p>I&#x27;ve also never made the PKMS work. I never look at stuff. Using Logseq as a convenient place to store knowledge and quiz myself on it (the latter requiring me to consolidate understanding) has worked out really well.
somehnacct3757over 2 years ago
Really enjoyed this read, but also couldn&#x27;t help but feel sorry for the author still trapped in the labyrinth. &quot;Just one more CMS and I&#x27;ll be free...&quot;<p>The jewel in the post is the rejection of Vannevar&#x27;s acolytes and their hand-wrought memexen. Biology already gave me a perfectly good memex in my skull. If its shortcomings give you anxiety, take 2 YAGNI until productivity resumes.
jrm4over 2 years ago
Yup. The unbundling is <i>so key.</i> I find that -- ironically -- lately, despite the proliferation of tools like this, they&#x27;re just like the sirens in the myths, and if I tie myself to the boat and just use what I use (zim-wiki in my case, YMMV) and just force myself to spend time there, I&#x27;m actually doing the work&#x2F;fun that&#x27;s most fulfilling.
neilyioover 2 years ago
I spent quite a bit of time in this particular rabbit hole. Zettelkasten, Roam, Org-Roam, LogSeq, GTD, Anki.... yet I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve stuck with any habit for more than a week or two. I have the same sinking feeling with these tools as I do with programming language development.<p>I&#x27;m sure many others here have followed note-taking&#x2F;PL ideas for years, waiting for the one that will come along and give us superpowers. It feels like we&#x27;re &quot;so close&quot;... all these tools&#x2F;languages are almost the perfect blend of concise, expressive, interactive, etc.<p>It&#x27;s occurred to me recently that we may already be among the last programming languages and note-taking systems to be built. We&#x27;ve tried for decades to design notes and code in ways that suit storage access patterns of our brains. I used to think that meant a breakthrough was inevitable, but now I&#x27;m starting to see the efforts having diminishing returns.<p>ChatGPT and its brethren are almost certainly the way forward for most knowledge storage (and the knowledge work that goes with it). The entire class of organization problems melt away when you can communicate in plain language what you&#x27;d like to store and retrieve. As chat assistants start to become more integrated in our work, the storage phase will become completely passive. The assistant will automatically accumulate the context it&#x27;ll need when we come back to it for retrieval.<p>Why would we design new languages and note systems when, quite literally, a general-purpose second brain already exists?<p>I don&#x27;t mean to discount the creativity and effort of all language and note system designers today. All exploration is valuable, and there are certainly better designs out there to be found. But the best designs don&#x27;t always win, and we might just be at the point where the imperfect designs that have critical mass might be the ones that stick around forever.
rollinDynoover 2 years ago
I am a strong believer in taking-notes so that I don&#x27;t have to face a blank canvas every time I want to start a new essay.<p>My issue is that when I am in &quot;the zone&quot;, I can&#x27;t write. When I am very intensely focused on a topic, I am informing my internal conversation very efficiently by skimming papers. If I interrupt that with taking notes, then I am adding unnecessary friction that slows me down.<p>When I write notes, I feel that my ideas race ahead of my typing speed, and my working memory is not large enough to keep these ideas in a buffer. This is an issue I have had my whole life but only recently noticed it is an impediment and only now can I describe it.<p>All that being said, even if this wasn&#x27;t an issue, there&#x27;s a trade-off between how quickly you move across text and how much of it you store on notes. There&#x27;s an optimal point, of course, and this can be raised with technology, focus, and practice.
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cristianpascuover 2 years ago
Just realized something while reading the article, about “spaced repetition”.<p>For a while now I had the impression of not learning anything new and also of loosing the interest of doing so. It sort of came back to me as I am in a sabbatical period now, which gave me some mental clarity and also more space-time to think about things more thoroughly.<p>But, here’s the thing: I have never stopped learning new things. I have been checking HN for many years, and been reading daily SW news for the past 20 years. Many things come to my attention in different shapes and they build up in abstraction and in my memory&#x2F;understanding to a wider and wider scale. Flash cards that I’d manage and check regularly would have not had the same effect as constantly checking my existing knowledge against random new areas of reality.<p>I am happy about realizing this, as it’s somehow difficult for me to understand my actual place in the SW industry.
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gualangover 2 years ago
I think the issue is not about tools for thoughts but how to apply tools for thoughts where the burden of signal vs noise of ideas or knowledge a seeker hopes to find in &quot;somebody&#x27;s vault of knowledge&#x2F; thoughts and not slip into a rabbit hole(time-sink) of &quot;noisy conspiracy theories&quot;. a layer or a search engine to qualify the knowledge vault worth the time to invest to check out the signal most likely to fit or add to the area being explored by the seeker. Just like a bot scanning galaxies for matching m class planets as candidates for exploration, a bot to scan accessible vaults of knowledge or threads of thoughts. For application in case laws, it would be a valuable citation tool.
s3000over 2 years ago
&gt;How often, truly, do you find yourself wanting to link a task in your todo list app to a file in Dropbox<p>Links are much more useful once notes and todo lists are shared and published. I am surprised that not all tools for thought have standardized on ActivityPub to enable their users to connect each other&#x27;s notes. People with an account could correct mistakes or link to crucial knowledge that was overlooked.<p>Like Wikipedia, information would grow &quot;on its own&quot;. Important ideas could be identified, information could be collected until it is enough for further steps.<p>Zettelkasten is great for one person but that&#x27;s for prolific people who process a massive amount of information. With the internet, a group of average people can turn into a genius by collectively collecting information and turning it into a useful form.
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raguileraover 2 years ago
While I agree with a lot of the points the author has made, TfT has really been a game changer for me in terms of how I process information. Regardless of the app (currently I&#x27;m using Tana), what&#x27;s been great is I no longer dump random bullet points of information under one topic, but really strive to take an idea and make it stand on it&#x27;s own (atomic note concept). It&#x27;s really helped me cut away the fat that inevitably makes up the majority of what we read and get down to the &quot;meat&quot;.<p>I don&#x27;t know how much I&#x27;ll use the bi-directional linking in the long term, maybe not at all, but at least for the moment it&#x27;s really helping me retain what I&#x27;m reading and that alone is worth the price of admission (at least for right now).
mikewarotover 2 years ago
Imagine a proxy that sat between your web browser and the internet, transparently recording to your local storage <i>everything</i> you&#x27;ve ever seen, in context.<p>Imagine Google, back when it still worked, able to search ONLY the stuff you&#x27;ve already seen. That would be incredibly useful.<p>A decade or so ago, there was an intriguing story on Slashdot about a covert operation prior to Desert Storm that simply recorded the waveforms of the power feed going into the Iraqi enrichment facility, and how that simple dataset allowed all sorts of things to be inferred.<p>I&#x27;ve tried more than once to find that story again, and simply can&#x27;t, and I have pretty strong Google-fu.<p>If I had a log of everything I&#x27;ve seen, it would be trivial to find.
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jamesgillover 2 years ago
I tried everything--Emacs, word processing software, custom conversion scripts, you name it. A few years ago, I more or less adopted Derek Sivers&#x27; method: I keep topical plain text files (markdown, really).<p>He described the topical files bit here (&#x27;Thoughts On&#x27; files): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sive.rs&#x2F;dj" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sive.rs&#x2F;dj</a><p>And the benefits of just writing plain text here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sive.rs&#x2F;plaintext" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sive.rs&#x2F;plaintext</a><p>Now, I just organize my text files in folders and forget about it. It&#x27;s all on Dropbox, so I can read&#x2F;revise from any machine, and text files are lightweight and simple to keep synced copies locally.
cfover 2 years ago
I&#x27;ve used a personal wiki for several years now, and I think it works just fine. Surprisingly, I don&#x27;t really link pages together all that much, but I make heavy use of tagging and categorising. I find that&#x27;s been enough for me.<p>I don&#x27;t really follow links, and mostly I just use the search bar when I need anything. I think one thing that&#x27;s tripping lots of people up is they are trying to use these tools the way they think is expected of them. Instead, it&#x27;s better to just make it as frictionless as possible to add notes, and as frictionless as possible to read notes you&#x27;ve written before.<p>Everything else is just procrastination with &quot;productivity tools&quot;
parenthesesover 2 years ago
<i>I</i> like the idea of a second brain or similar because writing helps <i>me</i> to think. If I start writing (instead of free thought), I more systematically explore something. This is useful for any type of rational thought that spans an even slightly complex space.<p>Some are good enough at operationalizing information and thinking more systematically without tools. They don&#x27;t need these tools, but may get stimulated by using&#x2F;maintaining them.<p>The problem is that these tools are sold as a way to level up. Instead, these tools are a crutch for most, self-fulfilling meticulousness for some, and a game changer for still others.
royaltjamesover 2 years ago
On &#x27;The Uselessness Of Scale&#x27;: I found after spending substantial time learning, customizing, and using tools like docs&#x2F;roam&#x2F;notion&#x2F;obsidian&#x2F;logseq&#x2F;bear&#x2F;etc is that what I truly lacked is a medium for playful design and frictionless neural-to-text.<p>I found kinopio.club on a whim and it has been the highest ROI tool from getting the maelstrom of brainsauce ripped out and straight to something like paper. It&#x27;s shame free, and anti-pornographic, unlike the way I feel with all these crunchy roam-likes.
adg33over 2 years ago
My personal note taking system is based on Markdown, Vim, grep and Git.<p>I have a private repo for personal notes, including a `todo.md` file that I use as an GTD style inbox - I have an alias `todo=&#x27;$EDITOR $HOME&#x2F;personal&#x2F;todo.md&#x27;` which takes me there quickly.<p>For some topics I use other repos - for example for programming notes, I use <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;ADGEfficiency&#x2F;programming-resources">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;ADGEfficiency&#x2F;programming-resources</a>.<p>Works great, fast, cheap and I don&#x27;t have to put up with any of the nonsense I used to put up with when I use Evernote.
Ruqover 2 years ago
This fellow&#x27;s system seems overcomplicated?<p>For me, the benefit of linked knowledge is just that I tend to forget a LOT of things, including many details of things I&#x27;ve learned in the past. For me, the principles and concepts remain, but all the steps and &quot;how to do X&quot; vanish rather quickly. So having essentially a personal documentation database (using Obsidian) that I can quickly jump into to recall lost knowledge is very important.<p>My &quot;Second Brain&quot; is not so much about making my brain better, as it is filling in the missing gaps of where my brain struggles at.
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LunarAuroraover 2 years ago
So he is Ok with unbundling everything but collections. What is a collection? What makes todos and contacts special, but not, say, movies or books ? I don&#x27;t think The line is so clear cut.<p>He has a point though: We need better &quot;generic no-code&quot; Database software. Some features of calibre (like the hierarchical tags) make me wish I could use it for many other types (and it does not work well). The same for Zotero (and I was more successful in turning it into a bookmarks manager and even a simple movie catalogue)
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adamgordonbellover 2 years ago
Playing with and building note taking tools as a form or procrastination is a real issue.<p>I went from Emacs Org Mode to Workflowy to Roam and the thing I like best out of all of these is not necessarily zettelkasten personal wikis but just being able to make a simple list for today, or outline an article I&#x27;m writing.<p>For me these tools work best when you can use them much like a physical notepad. More structure can be extracted and organized but in a pinch they can be replaced with a todo.txt.
c54over 2 years ago
Actually one thing I liked from this is the folder structure in his Cartesian app screenshots.<p>Personal → Autogeny (i’m imagining “talking points”, key recurring personal concepts), book of days (daily notes, journal). Documents and people, self explanatory. ”Thoughts” i’m unsure of but probably misc grab bag things that arent profound or important enough for autogeny.<p>“Trove” is a nice name for the random collection of interesting tidbits and stuff I also tend to collect in my vault
rektideover 2 years ago
The author has good points &amp; the idea that specialized (info-)spaces with specialized tools help. The tool imposes a big context boundary to rapidly filter through &amp; mask out most of the big pile of everything one has. That alone is a huge gain.<p>Trying to maintain some overall view, some sense of importance... having shape to your spaces, having them well defined, some kind of memory palace with notable form &amp; place to it resonates a lot with me The author nicely highlights the challenge:<p>&gt; <i>Every node in your knowledge graph is a debt. Every link doubly so. The more you have, the more in the red you are. Every node that has utility—an interesting excerpt from a book, a pithy quote, a poem, a fiction fragment, a few sentences that are the seed of a future essay, a list of links that are the launching-off point of a project—is drowned in an ocean of banality. Most of our thoughts appear and pass away instantly, for good reason.</i><p>Strong use of poetic license but stood out &amp; I like it!<p>Yet... I disagree with the premise. There&#x27;s definitely some expedience to having separate specialized apps for separate things. It&#x27;s a great short term aid, right now, today. The suck it up &amp; use Unity option.<p>But I feel like we have much more exploring to do with general purpose systems. Right now we are fairly first order, where everything kind of coexists &amp; most interfaces lack distinct submodes, lack distinction of subspaces.<p>Having a common backend &amp; common base-layer, which is extensible, growable, can begin to be shaped into the more specific regions eith distinct &amp; differentiated capabilities will greatly help. But that common platform seems key.<p>Links alone may be sufficient, but alas few apps really expose that. Also fixable, apps really ought have PingBack protocol (or some similar protocol) support, to hear when someone links them &amp; tell links they have been linked, such that we can have bidirectional links, which can greatly add navigation.<p>Beyond that, I think no tools really do a great job of helping us review &amp; raise up data over time. Algorithmic tools like Google Photos can do a fairly good job of finding &amp; reminding us of some stuff. But overall I havent seen many attempts at tackling the underlying problem here, of keeping folks in the loop and pruning, refining, revieing, whether we have specialized apps or whether we embrace the all-is-one general systems digital garden. Attention is a resource we have not honed personally, although it has been well tuned at larger mechanistic scales. I hope to see &amp; am excited to hopefully become a part of progressing on these points!
D13Fdover 2 years ago
I found the perfect system for me and I stick to it. I use a folder of Markdown text notes organized by creation date, with a text editor (ideally something like nvAlt &#x2F; Uulysses &#x2F; Obsidian that does indexed searches).<p>Titles are:<p>2022-12-26 Note Name.txt<p>That way I can find what I’m looking for, usually instantly, even though I have a pile of thousands of notes in that folder spanning a decade.
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muskmuskover 2 years ago
I use a single folder of files along with a script that can fuzzy search said folder. It works perfectly.<p>Knowledge is messy and doesn&#x27;t really conform to a database schema. Certainly not one you would want to write :) I think a better approach would be to find a way to insert all these notes into something like ChatGPT.
college_physicsover 2 years ago
The file system and a good desktop search engine can go a long way. Allows using any app or format, provided its indexable. Its not a proper knowledge graph but it allows you to trigger associations in your brain as you examine query results
wvlia5over 2 years ago
Reminded me of famous article &quot;APL as a tool for thought&quot;
__jamboover 2 years ago
This article has a lot of unfounded metaphors and assertions.<p>While procrastination is bad, and excessively logging is also bad, global systems are incredibly powerful - just look at physics.
leonhandrekeover 2 years ago
Maybe the whole networked thought&#x2F;Zettelkasten thing is just something that&#x27;s only useful for a small subset of endeavours, and more of a hindrance for most.<p>Niklas Luhmann became one of the most productive sociologists of the 20th century with the help of his enormous paper-based Zettelkasten. If you look at the stuff he wrote, you can see why. He ties together publications from the fields of sociology, philosophy, legal studies, psychology, biology and surely many more, literature, journalism, film... Luhmann was a prolific reader (he did few other things as far as I know) and for him, stumbling upon a connecting thought he had ten years ago while reading a newspaper after having read a specific book, might have been crucial to maintain the density of ideas in his publications.<p>In short, these tools are probably only useful to you if you&#x27;re in the business of generating novel ideas by interlinking a lot of other ideas that people have had in new, interesting ways. (This is the best tentative description I came up with and it&#x27;s probably wrong around the edges).<p>If you&#x27;re an engineer, or indeed also a scholar in the humanities but playing a different game than Luhmann, these tools may just be useless to you. A couple of years ago when I was thinking about this a lot, I asked one of my lecturers who was a post-doc in comparative political science about his toolset. He didn&#x27;t really seem to understand the question, he told me that he sometimes writes notes on books in a Word document but mostly knows what&#x27;s going on in his field and where to look for what. I later took a look at his dissertation and while I&#x27;m in no position to judge the quality of his work (it was probably pretty solid, he got it published with a reputable publisher), it seemed to have fever moving parts and threads of thought tied together than the bits of Luhmann that I&#x27;ve read.<p>My impression is that what&#x27;s holding the ecosystem of tools for networked thought back right now is that the tools are not built for (or possibly even by) the people for whom networked thought may be most useful. They&#x27;re trying to be better task managers, tagging systems, collection managers (as mentioned in the linked article), flashcard systems, etc. &quot;Zettelkasten&quot; by Daniel Lüdecke (a sociologist), the software recommended in &quot;How to Take Smart Notes&quot; by Sönke Ahrens (himself a professor in the humanities), which is hailed as the bible of networked thought by many (Roam, Logseq, HN I guess), looks very different from these tools. It&#x27;s an obscure piece of Java software, and while I&#x27;ve only briefly tried it out for a few minutes, it works very differently. Smaller notes, little structure within them, no titles. It has a &quot;desk mode&quot; where you can pull out notes and arrange them in a tree structure for when you&#x27;re writing a paper or book (see <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=XIztPpFqCBw">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=XIztPpFqCBw</a>).<p>I would love to see what things could happen in the networked thought space if people who need these tools the most sat down with people who can write software. I have a few ideas, but I&#x27;m afraid I&#x27;m just not enough of a Luhmann to really know what these people need. Also, I would just be procrastinating actually writing my thesis (nod to the linked article :))
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amadeuspagelover 2 years ago
&gt; The only friction is in clicking the bookmark to localhost:5000. It is literally two clicks to get to the daily note.<p>That&#x27;s significant. I register a domain for every project I make early, so that I can easily reach it from the addressbar. I only have to type &quot;th&quot; in the addressbar and it autocompletes to &quot;<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thinktype.app" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;thinktype.app</a>&quot;. I never even try to use it from the bookmarks bar.
ardeover 2 years ago
My chosen solution to all this is Dendron. It&#x27;s not perfect yet, but I found it better than the rest.
austenallredover 2 years ago
For me half of the point is that I can just dump everything into one place and not categorize or think about it
traceroute66over 2 years ago
Oof ... default font sizes on that blog are obnoxiously large. Paragraph font size is barely smaller than the header size.<p>Makes the whole thing unreadable since you are constantly scrolling to fit the next tiny chunk of text onto the screen. It is impossible to read at any sort of reasonable pace.
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melagonsterover 2 years ago
Is not wiki a revolutionary product in past? at least we got this.
joshlemerover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m having trouble understanding the article because they never say what &quot;TfT&quot; stands for, and google isn&#x27;t turning up anything plausible.
workbytaylorover 2 years ago
I wish I had read this 10 years ago.
rgrsover 2 years ago
Joplin is my personal wiki
deafpolygonover 2 years ago
Aside from the software development aspect, the OP echoes a lot of my thinking at times.<p>&gt; In practice 95% of the use cases ... unbundled into disjoint apps, and the lack of centralization and cross-app hyperlinking has no real negative effects.<p>The reverse is also true; 95% of the use cases of disparate apps can be covered by a single app and your filesystem. You can keep your notes, journal, todo list, so on, in Notepad. nano for those who use Linux. I mean, why not? Use your filesystem to navigate things, and shortcuts to things that don&#x27;t fit neatly in a category.<p>Do you really need Todoist to do what you can do in a plaintext file?<p>Now, this isn&#x27;t an attempt to mock the OP. I don&#x27;t disagree with most of the points they are trying to make. But most of the premises, while well thought out, are a bit flawed.<p>&gt; long-form study notes are a form of procrastination.<p>It&#x27;s the first step to taking notes. You need to distill them into chunks that you can review for later. It&#x27;s rarely meant to be kept in its initial form.<p>&gt; Contacts: if you have a page for a person ... use Google Contacts or a spreadsheet.<p>Or a text file with their name.<p>&gt; Fiction Writing ... using git for version control makes a lot more sense ...<p>A git folder with text files.<p>&gt; Organizing Legal Documents ... a few spreadsheets is all it takes in practice.<p>Or a folder with PDFs.<p>&gt; Lists: of things ... Spreadsheets work just fine for this ...<p>A collection of text files is fine.<p>&gt; Collection Management: this is an area where the software solutions are strangely very lacking. ...<p>Nope, text files.<p>&gt; I need tags, that is: I need a database.<p>Ah, that&#x27;s what OP wants. A database to Do All the Things. Seems like OP just wants a better Excel. Sorry, my cynicism was showing.<p>(as for Collection Management, why not a spreadsheet? It&#x27;s the same problem).<p>I use Obsidian, and before that, I use Emacs, VimWiki, LogSeq, Roam, Dendron, etc. I find it fun - it&#x27;s a hobby of mine. What I find fascinating is the myriad of ways people have come up to solve this problem, and of course, this problem space has no end of salesman.<p>At the end of the day, I find Obsidian as a &quot;pretty text editor with a really fast search&quot; useful currently. I keep my tasks in there, because 95% of my &quot;tasks&quot; are just text files. I leverage a plugin (Tasks) to let me sort it by date and one that lets me put it anywhere I want. (So I don&#x27;t have to figure out where it belongs)<p>&gt; but a nicer UI ... the UI trumps the features ... is about building a habit, for which good UX is necessary.<p>Exactly. Obsidian themes have a pretty UX and the plugins make plain-text a nicer UX. Tomorrow, I might switch to LibreOffice because, why not?<p>I use the filesystem for everything else, and for things that don&#x27;t fit neatly in a category? Hard links, if it makes sense. I find that trying to collect everything and organize everything is a rabbit hole in and of itself.<p>It&#x27;s the same problem that hoarders have in meatspace , and rich people solve by buying bigger places.
robertlfover 2 years ago
Why&#x27;s the font so big? hahaha