For someone who cites Seneca, this author sure doesn't seem to get stoicism.<p>You could make yourself uncomfortable by donning a mail gauntlet and punching yourself in the face every thirty seconds until you die. So what? What good does that do for anybody, yourself included?<p>It's this intensely epicurian take on stoicism. It's like, the purpose of becoming hard, tough, and a badass is to sit there enjoying that you are a hard, tough, stoic badass.<p>What are you going to DO with that? Answer that question and I'll tell you what you are. If you have no answer, you just told ME what you are.<p>Am I going to lose any sleep over that? Nah. What good would it do for me to be angry over some fool's self-absorption? If I have nothing better to do than fret over that, it's an indictment of me and I ought to attend to that lack in myself.<p>Be uncomfortable if it serves a purpose. If, like Seneca, the purpose is 'not to get too out of touch with regular people', that's fine, if that matters to you. I play drums and lift weights. I don't like the weights, but when I sit down to play drums (or carry firewood etc) I'm not helpless thanks to the discomfort. Purpose transforms all this. Purpose is nice. It's the point of the exercise, not just sitting there contemplating your badassery.
The article fell short for me. It didn't give a convincing reason for it, especially when the closing statement is "do it sometimes, but be smart about it".<p>I read it thinking of the hustle culture people who associate cold showers and other performative discomfort to success, and wondered how they would read it.<p>I seek discomfort when there is a significant payoff, some unique experience that's worth the pain. Risk eating something completely different, taking the slow route somewhere, talking to strangers, taking the road less travelled.<p>Fortune favours the bold. It's ambivalent about people who take cold showers.
After reading some of the comments here I didn't bother reading the article.<p>Just wanted to mention on the subject of being uncomfortable:<p>I've slept on the floor for decades, initially just to avoid wasting space on a bed in my bedroom while still living at home. But this increasingly became apparent as preventative of waking up with back pains which I'd experience whenever deviating from the floor at friends' homes or hotels, so I just kept doing it. It's not cozy or comforting, it's just dull but I'm so used to it that it's fine.<p>Eventually it became clear that by sleeping on the floor I had unintentionally made getting up easier. It's not a comfort trap like the soft cozy beds I used to sleep on. This effect became very apparent when I started doing pushups every morning. When I'm already on the floor from where I slept, it's a very short <i>(dis)comfort</i> <i>delta</i> from where I was to where I want to be when what I want is doing pushups on the floor. I'm already on the hard floor; just put away the blankets and pillow and bust out a set then get on with the day. There's no substantial comfort debt to dig myself out of first...<p>Since experiencing this I've started becoming more conscious of limiting comforts and making them more intentionally used when necessary. It pays in dividends to be a bit tougher across the board. Maximizing comfort continuously is tantamount to coddling yourself constantly, that's what we do to spoil babies.
Taleb makes a good point about philosopher kings like Marcus Aurelius, Seneca, etc (those who lived much life of comfort due to riches). That they were kings before they were philosophers.<p>Goggins on the other side grew up more like Epictetus. Where the philosophy drove them to sagehood/being kings of their own categories.<p>This blog falls a bit short on what pain and suffering can do to a person. The whole stoicism movement is more akin to the myth of Sisyphus. Like Camus’s book:<p>The struggle itself ... is enough to fill a man's heart. One must imagine Sisyphus happy.
I'm not sure if the author really made a point here. Make yourself uncomfortable by choice, so you'll be able to tolerate it when, "chances are low" to quote, it comes around anyway?<p>I'm not sure if "spending 1 minute in an ice bath" really drove it home. "I've given up takeaway during the week" or "I've stopped using my aircon" would be more...impactful? As it is, it comes across as comparing a cold bath to what undeveloped countries live in, which feels very naive.
I agree that this blog is not very good at clearly arguing it's conclusion, though I do agree with it for three reasons.<p>First intentional discomfort encourages you to pay attention to what your body is saying, and trains your willpower. It's easy to fall into a default state of being where impulses come up from your subconscious and you act on them without thinking. Doing uncomfortable things trains you to listen to your body tell you to not do something, and trains you to have the willpower to do it anyway.<p>Second, discomfort helps you appreciate comfort. Hot cocoa in front of the fireplace is nice, but after a day of snowshoeing it's incredible. The fist meal you have after completing the Appalachian trail, whatever it is, will be the best meal of your life.<p>Third, there is increasing evidence that certain types of physical discomfort improve health and longevity. Aerobic exercise is obvious and well supported. There is growing evidence that exposure to very hot and very cold temperatures improves longevity. There is also evidence that fasting helps as well. Keep in mind that "does X make you live longer" is a difficult question to answer in a scientifically rigorous manner. I'm on mobile or I'd link to some studies.
I am the author of the blog and I want to thank for all the feedback here. Because I now do realize the article starts with a high premise but fails short. Will do a better job next time!<p>What I meant to talk about is as follows: we have engineered away all sorts of discomfort from our lives and I think that's bad. So (1) be aware of this, (2) seek some discomfort, and (3) if you run into discomfort, take it in a positive way (this I didn't convey in the article).<p>But yeah I don't mean to say chop of your limbs! Not sure how people are reaching that conclusion.<p>Thanks HN!
To me, this article reads like it was written by an inexperienced blogger who probably checked off 'stoicism' of their list of popular topics to write about, despite the fact they don't know much about stoicism.<p>That being said, I feel like the article fails to drive anything meaningful. Thats not to say stoicism is pointless. There are many people in the discussion here that bring up great points about stoicism.<p>As for myself, I don't know much more than the pop culture basics of stoicism so I can really give any further guidance.
This article is so funny. I thought we as a society already went through this phase like 5 years ago? Toxic productivity as they call it. Also, I read David Goggins book and to my surprise it was much deeper and much more meaningful than what you would expect with all these productivity gurus misusing quotes from his book. If you can get past the vulgar language I recommend you pick it up.
If you're in actual pain (not just sore) after the gym, you're doing something wrong.<p>Did I miss the point of the article? It seems like it skipped <i>why</i> someone is looking to get tough. Without that, I'm skeptical that sitting in an ice tub etc is really effective at making someone tough outside of that very specific scenario.
If you are in the US or any developed nation, chances are that you are working pretty hard to maintain your life style. So enjoy that warm balmy room, with hot chocolate in one hand and a mobile in another.<p>This post sounds like a teenager who's just read Dune and thinks "Sardaukar tough but Fremen tougher".
I dunno if I agree with this premise. Some comforts are illusionary but others are not, and once you lose them they are gone, and you will forever live in discomfort.
> <i>If you are in the US or any developed nation, chances are that your life is pretty comfortable.... you are sitting in a warm balmy room ... You have access to plenty of foods... water is nice and warm... we have access to tremendous amounts of energy... and there is a surplus of everything.</i><p>Really? My experience is pretty much opposite.<p>In "developing" nation I can afford pretty much anything. House heating, hot water, plenty of good food, car with plenty of gas...<p>My parents in "developed nation" are freezing their asses for some stupid politics. Switching on hot water only briefly for quick showers. Supermarkets only have processed junk food. They can not afford car. Politicians are telling 70 year old woman to use bike in snow storm instead...