Assuming you are grid-tied, the reduction of electric bills is predicated on net metering, where the utility company gives you (ideally) 1-for-1 credit for the electricity you produce. In California, this was called NEM 1.0 and NEM 2.0. Every few years the California utilities lobby the Public Utilities Commission (PUC) to chip away at the NEM program. This year the PUC voted unanimously to cut net energy metering and any new solar owner will fall under the NEM 3.0 rules. Net energy metering is essentially dead in California. In addition there are additional fixed fees customers have to pay. This will disincentivize solar-only installation. If you want fair compensation of what you generate you’ll have to store it and pay yourself.<p>PG&E will find a way to keep their profit margin.<p><a href="https://www.npr.org/2022/12/15/1142927418/california-plans-to-cut-incentives-for-home-solar-worrying-environmentalists" rel="nofollow">https://www.npr.org/2022/12/15/1142927418/california-plans-t...</a>
I worked in the solar industry for years and this is a very good summary of the residential install process from the customer side.<p>I’ll also second one of the main points of the author: do NOT get a solar lease. Either finance it through a solar loan or pay cash. A good solar company will not push you into a lease. If they try, talk to someone else.
I wonder what causes this high electricity use. Not because it's any of my business, it's just genuine curiosity.<p>He never reveals actual use, only savings. Still, at 0.25$ per kwh charged and an average monthly saving of 210$, we can work out that 860 kwh/month was saved, which amounts to 10,320 kwh per year. Actual use may be (far) higher, but we don't know.<p>Just these savings alone is triple my total electricity consumption (in the Netherlands) in a fairly similar weather pattern. And I'm not exactly frugal with electricity: big TV, washer, dryer, powerful oven, multiple PCs, and even a few small power hungry electrical heaters (due to very high gas prices).<p>I'm not exactly projecting a personal situation. Our government has established that median/typical use of a dutch household is 2,900 kwh/year in order to qualify for the new price ceiling, a temporary measure to keep energy affordable.<p>So here we're talking about 3 times more than an above average consumer (me), and what might be a factor of 4-6 more than our median. Yet the person is unlikely to live in a mansion as he can't afford to pay for the panels in cash. I don't mean that in a judgemental way.<p>Large scale permanent electrical heating/cooling in every room? EV car? What would cause such enormous usage?<p>Again, I don't ask this to justify usage, only to understand it.
Can somebody explain where the return on investment comes from in residential solar? It just strikes me that if there was easy money to be had on solar installations, we'd just get tons of utility scale solar installs (which would likely by more capital efficient) and my utility bill would over time converge on the expected total utility bill for a home with residential solar. Is it just because we're in that transitional period where utility scale solar _is_ being installed, but in the mean time residential solar install internalizes the savings to your own residence? Or is it because most of the testimonials are hiding the ball a bit (only net savings reported due to buyer's remorse, etc.)? Or is it because government subsidies for residential solar are distorting the true capital cost, and thus profitability, of solar at scale?
> The unsubsidized all-in price for buying and installing the panels was $25,525.43... after counting this $6,636.61 tax credit, the subsidized price was $18,888.82<p>Looks like a 7 year return on investment after subsidies, 10 years without.
I paid ~15k to install solar in 2019. After tax rebates it was ~11k. I’m generating ~12MWh per year. My break even period is less than 5 years.<p>I’m based out of California, and generate excess energy. My electric bill is now just ~$100/year.
I am surprised at these power bills, at least in my area the implied "savings" are 2-3 times what my bill is on any given month. Huge house maybe?
My parents had panels installed on their house, it is a large single story house in Austin, Texas, which is pretty ideal (more surface area for panels, less volume inside vs two story). No trees in the way either. They haven't had to pay anything for electricity yet. And that is with an EV charging in the garage.<p>We have panels on our roof, a two story house, also in Austin Texas, not so lucky as my parents. With the area maxed out we still have to pay for about 25% of the electricity we use.
One side benefit of solar for me was reducing cooling requirements of the top floor, which I anticipated but didn't expect it to be this significant. Expectedly but interestingly, installing solar panels didn't make any difference, but starting energy production did. Physics is fascinating.
Interesting to see a post about this from someone else who I'm assuming is in a northern climate (they say New England).<p>One of my biggest questions about solar is, what happens when it snows? Do you have to get up on the roof and clean them off by hand? Or do they have built-in defrosters?
My system generated 14.36 MWh in 2022, which comes out to roughly $4,308 USD. The ROI is about 5-6 years for the system itself. But a new roof was also in order.... so more like 10-12 years. Still a great deal if you can afford to invest for the long term. Especially with a 30 year warranty on most of the equipment.
My mom tells me she's practically been making money with hers in the last years.<p>She had them installed when my parents were still running a GP practice together in a small village. That was only a few years before they retired though, so now half of the building is basically storage space that's barely used and unheated (also no sterilizing equipment in autoclaves, fewer fridges needed, etc). She also has a solar water heater, she cooks with gas, and her house is very well insulated. As a result of all this she ended up producing more electricity than she uses.<p>However, she's also still on an "old" contract with her energy provider that is quite beneficial towards her because they didn't anticipate this scenario - this will likely change soon when she has to renew it.<p>This is in the Netherlands, can't speak for other countries.
This was built by a solar company, not the author directly, but the actual parts making up this system are pretty damned cheap. ~$4200 in panels + $2000 inverter plus additional hardware (mounting, cables, fasteners). Then labor costs.<p>Net output was 10,894 kWh, inline with a 20 year estimate of 193,545 kWh. If we just divide $6200/193545kWh (ignoring additional costs!!) that'd be $0.032/kWh.<p>One other data-point: daily output averaged to 29.8 kWh, from this 7.56kWh array.
* In USA / America<p>(At the very end of the article, some hint is given as to where the author is located.)<p>Those numbers - for USA, and for 2022 - seem very high.<p>Author obtained 7.56 kW of panels with a single phase inverter for a list price of USD$26k - which was reduced via subsidies down to USD$19k actual.<p>Here in Australia, 24 months ago I had 12kW of panels with a 10kW three-phase inverter installed for an on-paper price of AUD$13k (USD$9k), similarly subsidised with government incentives down to AUD$8k (USD$5k).<p>I'm about 200km north-west of Sydney ('regional' by any definition), and installation involved 3 guys for one full day (presumably they were a multi-day loop to customers in the area, as we're 3h from their base).<p>In any case, ignoring post-subsidy delta, why are the list prices so savagely different? I know all these panels and inverters come out of China, but I'd have expected stateside pricing to be much more competitive a year ago than rural Straya pricing two years ago.<p>In terms of finances / payback - author seems to overlook one (mostly positive) feature, which is the behavioural changes of 'free' power. It's summer here now which means regular 40C+ temperatures, and so the air conditioners (3 x 500W max draw) go on daily, automatically, for 10:00/17:00. This obviously improves QoL but also some non-obvious benefits - extends shelf life of food, takes a significant load off the fridge, etc.<p>Basically, a raw comparison of before/after often won't be as compelling as it assumes no changes to how you consumer power. I've got $0.33 export / $0.07 per kWh, so the trade-off is slightly simpler to calculate -- along with the installation of an $80 timer switch for the 1800W HWS (only draws power during the middle of the day) I calculate <i>effective</i> payback for me is in the order of 3-4 years.
>Realizing that the solar company was in quite the pickle insofar as repossessing the panels would require costly legal actions on top of paying people to take out the system, I just waited on the payment. They would contact me periodically asking me to make payment and offering to help me get approved for a new loan. But I just ignored all of that.<p>Seems pretty unethical tbh. The solar company delivered, but now this guy is going to refuse to pay? Sure he did later, but not without blackmailing them for $5k discount.
I have a large 20kw system for an old leaky farmhouse and it provides me about $6k in energy and credits a year.<p>I like thinking about it as a near guaranteed, medium return long term investment that's good for the environment. Each year is roughly 13% returns and I should get that for at least 20 years or so.
Don't kid yourself that residential electricity prices have tremendous price jumps every year. Nationally prices have increased 2 cents per Kwh from about 2009 to 2021. That is a 1.47% CAGR, CPI inflation was 1.55% per year over that same time.<p><a href="https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/7?agg=0,1&geo=vvvvvvvvvvvvo&endsec=vg&linechart=ELEC.PRICE.US-RES.A&columnchart=&map=&freq=A&start=2001&end=2021&ctype=linechart&ltype=pin&rtype=s&maptype=0&rse=0&pin=" rel="nofollow">https://www.eia.gov/electricity/data/browser/#/topic/7?agg=0...</a>
Is this the normal price for a solar install in the US?<p>In Australia it's ~$7000AU (~$4000 US) for a system like this, unsubsidized - then we have a 400$/kWh subsidy.<p>Our 10kW solar system was $4000AU installed, and the payback period is 2-3 years...
We aren’t currently grid tied (we may eventually put in a line to reduce sun-drought generator set use, but at about 100 hours a year it’s kinda a tough sell)<p>Our little solar plant operates a small coffee plantation, 4 houses, 8 cabins, and several outbuildings , parks, and community spaces.
When we do tie in we probably won’t sell power or do net metering. Instead we focus on robotic or mechanised industry where we can generate saleable goods using the excess power. (Computing power, 3d printing, dry ice manufacturing, foamed concrete block manufacturing, etc)<p>We also manage our utility loads like bullk water production and large scale refrigeration so that they occur during excess production periods and are normally suspended while we are operating on stored power. I’m thinking of implementing an anydrous ammonia plant and distribution system so that we can store more energy useful in air conditioning and refrigeration, which are some of our largest loads. It’s getting hard to find ways to store energy that work out cheaper than just buying more batteries though.<p>I’m really stoked about LiTo batteries coming down in price eventually (or similar tech not yet released) because they last 30 years + / 30,000 cycles…. And they can take a charge at a ridiculous rate, which solves other challenges.
I have a pretty ideally angled roof near Boston and was considering a solar setup. However as far as I can tell we won't get paid for excess generation in any given month, so since we don't really use much electricity it seems this is not a good investment. Are there any common updates possible to take advantage of the excess power? Before ETH switched to POS I thought about mining crypto... otherwise we could switch to electric heat but that is a huge outlay.
That's a pretty good return. I paid around $20k for my system (parts and installation) and get ~$1700 a year out of it (I live pretty far north). After tax credits and other state incentives I break even in 7 years. Output is warrantied by the manufacturer for 25 years (there's a schedule, but should still be 85% at 25 years IIRC). It's a great time to get solar if you own your home.
"per-kWh price of electricity was around 25 cents"<p>This sounds like the total price of electricity, including distribution. However my understanding of net-metering means that you have to pay distribution fees to put your power on the grid, so you don't get back the full 25 cents, only around half that (the generation portion).<p>If the author of this post is on here, could you please clarify?
Hmmm.. I have a 2400 sq ft home in FL. The electricity portion of my utility bill averages roughly $150/month.<p>They must be in a really large home.
Does anyone have any detailed, up-to-date resources for personal solar use? I'd love to learn more, in particular the cost/output/lifespan progress by time. Last time I checked in my area it seemed that you didn't quite break even, but that was a while ago and my understanding was/is very limited.
Damn, solar panels are expensive in the USA...<p>In Australia a 6.6kw system with 5kw inverter runs about 3500-4500AUD installed and grid connected.<p>The rebates in WA are fairly low for exported power (about 5c/kwh) but you can fully offset your usage during the sunny parts of the day running aircon/washing machine.
> <i>if you use a 5 percent discount rate, 20 years of $2,677 of annual electricity bill savings yields a net present value of $33,361.</i><p>Yes, but with an 8% discount rate, the PV is $26,283. It's true that the cost of electricity will probably rise over time, as he notes. But current interest rates make this a much less attractive proposition from a financial perspective (that is, assuming you don't care about solar generation for environmental reasons). The homeowner takes on significant risk, and the gain is not all that great. Your panels can be destroyed by hurricane, earthquake, or falling trees, rendering them worthless, for example.<p>I'm not saying this isn't worth doing, just that the financial calculations seem a bit flawed in today's economic environment.
Any1 built their own battery-arrays? I am interested in solar in part to avoid blackouts. But for that I will need batteries. And my house being 100% electric, tesla's powerwall quickly becomes expensive. On a first glance, using lead-acid batteries appears to be straightforward, but I wonder what edge-cases and gotchas others experienced with it. How much time is needed to maintain it.<p>So far 10kW gas generator was able to power most of the house's essentials before resistive heater kicks in in HVAC system (two heatpump units, each has a 7.5kw resistive heater as a backup when outside temperature drops too much.) But I would feel better if I did not have to rely on availability of propane/gas and clean roads during periods like 2021 blizzard in Texas.
Electricity from utility solar (large power plants) is about 2x cheaper than electricity from residential solar if you don't count subsidies.<p>So residential solar really doesn't make a lot of sense to me on a societal level, assuming blackouts are rare.
The conversation here seems a bit binary. Maybe I missed a few posts. The whole solar thing is not realized until cooperatives de-grid in favor of their own local grids, along with an arbitrage sharing model. That has the potential to to manage all power needs (including electrical cars). It's a scaling issue sort of in between entirely centralized and rugged individualism.<p>Of course the tech for this is a real threat for utilities, so it wouldn't surprise me if they would go to any length to stop such and effort. Same could be said for any deflationary tech like micro reactors.
In the UK, I've had a battery plus solar for just over a year.<p>its a 5kwp set of panels and a 13kwhr battery. From mid march to late November, we only drew from the grid once (that was because we had a portable hottub setup, which took ~28kwhr to heat up.)<p>Its raining and january and december are shit months for solar, well mostly because of the short days. December we were 45% independent from the grid.<p>Currently we do not have heating or cooling from electricity. If that were the case we'd need 10kwp plus more storage.
I was curious how this person was paying US$0.22/kWh when that is 2x Oregon, and found this interesting table:<p><a href="https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/" rel="nofollow">https://www.chooseenergy.com/electricity-rates-by-state/</a><p>Not sure how accurate it is, but what is up with New Hampshire at $0.32?!<p>Hawaii seems like it could knock it out of the park with wind and solar, but they're at 45cents. Ouch.
We had solar panels on our last house. Even in the cloudy PNW, we generated enough electricity to cover 100% of our electrical needs. And, the monthly cost of the loan payment was about $30 less than our previous cheapest monthly electrical payment.<p>Unfortunately our new house doesn't have a roof configuration that allows for solar panels. I wonder if new home architecture and alignment will change to make solar panels work better?
I've just installed solar & batteries (not 2 weeks ago we turned them on!). Be interesting to see how things will unfold and I love reading stories on how people have got on with theirs. It was roughly ~£12,900 installed (in the UK) and we pay 32.596p/kWh & 42.290p/day standing charge...<p>Will either pay off well or be an expensive lesson
This is interesting to me, I like reading people's experiences with solar panels since I'm waiting for the price to make sense for my own home. But as someone spending about $1,000/year, it's just not there yet. My options seem to be: diy, 20-30 year roi, find more ways to use electricity, or wait.
There is an associated video where he goes through the article and answers many of the questions I see in the comments here: <a href="https://youtu.be/YWwJ-DsVT4A" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/YWwJ-DsVT4A</a>
Great summary of this man’s positive experiences with installing solar. Can anyone answer how having solar affixed to your roof affects or complicates getting a new roof on your home every 10 years?
if you don't have net metering you should consume as much as you can yourself, cook when the sun is out, run your washer / dryer / vacuum / dishwasher and whatever else you have when you have excess power and minimize during the times the sun is below the horizon. 60% self consumption is doable without too much effort, 70 is work and if you get to 80%+ please let me know how you are doing that.<p>Also: the big trick to running of renewables is conservation comes first, solar second and finally the grid as a fallback for the remainder.
Slightly off topic, but is there a service that would quote out a new roof + solar install? We're waiting on doing solar until we need a new roof as ours is ~9-10 years old, and not near EOL.
If you're interested in learning a lot about doing home/campervan installations, I highly suggest watching/reading everything that Will Prowse has published.
Weird question and probably rare but what happens if solar array is hit by lighting?<p>Are they insured?<p>Do they get damaged? Does the inverter/batteries get damaged or is there likely a circuit breaker?
It's surprising that it's possible to produce electricity at home for a lower cost than the wholesale price.<p>I can't think of any other commodity for which this is possible. You couldn't make your own steel, bread or printer paper at home and beat manufacturing at scale.<p>Why is electricity different?