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Moiré no more (2021)

122 pointsby PuddleOfSausageover 2 years ago

13 comments

planedeover 2 years ago
When you get Moiré from the sensor of a camera or scanner, then there is nothing much you can do.<p>But extreme Moiré effect from resizing is not really Moiré. It&#x27;s aliasing. And it typically happens because the resizing happens in a non-linear colorspace and&#x2F;or with a poor kernel. Unfortunately this mistake is quite common in many image processing software.
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wazooxover 2 years ago
I obtained a similar effect with The Gimp and the wavelet decomposition plugin[1] that splits the picture in various layers containing details at different granularity. You can then simply remove the &quot;bad&quot; ones. On portraits, you can remove freckles and wrinkles very easily this way, too.<p>[1]: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.gimp.org&#x2F;2.10&#x2F;en&#x2F;plug-in-wavelet-decompose.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;docs.gimp.org&#x2F;2.10&#x2F;en&#x2F;plug-in-wavelet-decompose.html</a><p>So I tried it on his image and here&#x27;s how it looks with default settings:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;demo.intellique.org&#x2F;nextcloud&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;s&#x2F;SsgWGczo6GMe5yx&#x2F;download&#x2F;decomposed.jpg" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;demo.intellique.org&#x2F;nextcloud&#x2F;index.php&#x2F;s&#x2F;SsgWGczo6G...</a><p>Much less work :)
DrNosferatuover 2 years ago
Done since the mid-1960&#x27;s :) but, nevertheless, always an interesting read!<p>This is <i>classical</i> (as in pre-GPU AI&#x2F;ML) Image Processing. The reference text book in the field, &quot;Digital Image Processing&quot; by Gonzalez et al, shows how to do it: like the pioneers at JPL&#x27;s Image Processing Laboratory (est. 1965) denoised Mars pictures from the Mariner probes using Frequency Domain methods like the posted article uses - see an example below.<p>[<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pixelcraft.photo.blog&#x2F;2021&#x2F;09&#x2F;29&#x2F;the-early-days-of-image-processing-to-mars-and-beyond&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;pixelcraft.photo.blog&#x2F;2021&#x2F;09&#x2F;29&#x2F;the-early-days-of-i...</a>]
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zokierover 2 years ago
I wonder what would be the more systematic approach than manually painting over the fft image? That constellation of peaks in fft should be reasonably easy to recognize (semi-)automatically, then you&#x27;d need to figure out good mask for those.. is it a circular blob, or maybe diamond&#x2F;star shape? And what size is best? Etc etc.
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anotheryouover 2 years ago
&gt; All the demoireing guides tell you to apply a sharpening filter after this to compensate, but that’s like reheating cold pizza. You will never get back to where you were before, no matter how hard you try<p>Actually the noise from the moire can fake detail that wasn&#x27;t there in the first place. Put film grain or a raster on top of a blurry image and it will subjectively improve in quality.
hilbert42over 2 years ago
<i>&quot;This is why nobody will allow you to wear stripes on television:&quot;</i><p>This used to be cardinal rule in television broadcasting but it&#x27;s much less a problem nowadays with the increased resolution&#x2F;line rate of HD TV and video processing (filters) designed to eliminate it.<p>Nevertheless, whilst once discouraged, moiré was often a useful tool as camera and CCU (Camera Control Unit) operators would use it to focus an image—the more pronounced the moiré the sharper the camera&#x27;s focus.<p>As bad as moiré is perceived a much greater cardinal &#x27;sin&#x27; in both television broadcasting and photography is <i>lateral inversion.</i> This is where the image has been swapped in the horizontal direction (in some places it was a dismissible offence), as it&#x27;s a complete distortion&#x2F;misrepresentation of the image, which in some instances, may go undiscovered—there being no visual clues to indicate the problem.<p>Lateral inversion is very obvious when writing, street signs etc., appear backwards but for some reason it&#x27;s very much less so when images of humans are involved. Despite the fact that laterally-inverted images put men&#x27;s clothes on women and vice versa—as blouses, shitrts, coats and pants flies appear the wrong way around—few people seem to notice.<p>There&#x27;s much evidence for this, one I often cite is that there are images from WWII on the US National Archive by the US Army Signal Corps that are still laterally inverted after 70-plus years that no one has bothered to correct (it&#x27;s not a recent scanning error either as the Signal Corps logo (which is embedded within the photo) is not laterally inverted but the image content is).<p>BTW, laterally inverting a film image reduces the resolution as the negative or slide is no longer in the normal focus plane.
andreareinaover 2 years ago
Past discussion: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28663719" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=28663719</a><p>Relevant xkcd: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1814&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;xkcd.com&#x2F;1814&#x2F;</a>
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tantalorover 2 years ago
&gt; occurring when two similar frequencies overlap and create strange, pulsating patterns<p>I just made the connection between moire and beats. Nice!<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Beat_(acoustics)" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Beat_(acoustics)</a>
dvhover 2 years ago
Here&#x27;s my favorite &quot;alternative&quot; explanation of moiré:<p>sin(a) * sin(b) = 0.5 * (cos(a - b) - cos(a + b))<p>You may remember this formula from high school. The arguments a and b are basically frequencies. When you multiply two frequencies a and b, you will get their difference cos(a - b) and their sum cos(a + b). If two frequencies are similar (e.g. 101Hz and 100Hz) you get one very low frequency (101Hz - 100Hz = 1Hz) and the other one will be much higher number (101Hz + 100Hz = 201Hz). It&#x27;s hard to see that higher frequency 201Hz, you have to come really close, but it is easy to see that low frequency, that 1Hz would manifest as 1 dark blob across entire area.
Gordonjcpover 2 years ago
Hang on then, if you&#x27;re just notching out certain frequencies by painting over them in a 2D FFT could you do the same thing by treating the image like it was raster-scanned video and passing it through a notch filter at the Moiré frequency, or for that matter a comb filter? After all that&#x27;s how you remove PAL subcarrier speckle from composite video.
bargle0over 2 years ago
A certain YouTube creator wears striped shirts on camera a lot, but I feel like he should probably know better. I wonder if it’s an intentional, subtle troll?
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lowbloodsugarover 2 years ago
There&#x27;s literally a button for this in Photoshop, and I&#x27;m sure every other tool for photos &#x2F; scanning.
moloch-haiover 2 years ago
So all the people who insisted nothing could be done were just ignorant of what could be done?
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