Native New Yorker here. Out of towners are obsessed with the BEST slice, but the true measure of NYC's 45 degree greatness is the decent quality following a Poisson distribution. My tip: just travel to any random spot in the five boroughs. First; you will be impressed how close you are to a pizza spot wherever you are. Second: you will be impressed with the slice, and with the variety of people who are good at making it.
Many who grow up in the NY area grow up on pizza. In childhood, it's often eaten as a quick meal that doesn't require cooking. In adolescence, pizza is one of the only foods you can afford to eat out with your friends after school. In college, there's nothing like a drunken slice of pizza at 1 am. It's hard to overstate what a satisfying comfort food pizza is. There's truly nothing like it.
The best slice in the Boston area ("the city that always sleeps") was the one you could get at 2am. It had a loose connection to HN-style hackers.<p>Hi-Fi Pizza and Subs was a rare place that would serve the Central Square clubgoers around last call, as well as the people walking home in the cold from a late night at MIT.<p>There'd be a welcoming warm light from the somewhat gritty street, and a fast moving line. You'd get to the front of the line, say something like "slice of mushroom, please", they'd always say "2.10, please", you pay and take it, and step to the side, to quickly shake the container of grated parmesan. Then you walk the rest of the way home (or back to the lab), munching the slice, soul recharged by warm tasty cheese and crust.<p>(Sadly, Hi-Fi closed years ago. <a href="https://www.wickedlocal.com/story/cambridge-chronicle-tab/2014/03/11/hi-fi-pizza-closes-after/38288505007/" rel="nofollow">https://www.wickedlocal.com/story/cambridge-chronicle-tab/20...</a> I was very cross when it was quickly replaced by a vegetarian food startup, and I'm vegetarian. A couple weeks ago, the even more MIT-beloved food place, Mary Chung (which I first heard of as a kid, in stories of MIT hackers), also shut down. <a href="https://www.boston.com/community/restaurants/mary-chung-restaurant-will-permanently-close-at-the-end-of-2022/" rel="nofollow">https://www.boston.com/community/restaurants/mary-chung-rest...</a> )
> but the overall quality of your average slice in the city has definitely suffered<p>This is true of the big national chains, too. They've kept prices relatively stable for damn near 25 years, at this point, but quality has gotten far worse over that same time span. That mouth-watering Pizza Hut pie you remember from 1992 isn't <i>all</i> nostalgia—every now and then I find single-location or small-chain joints that make pizza very similar to how I remember those tasting. Thing is, those are like $15+ a pie now, <i>with a coupon or special</i>. But you can still get larges for $8 or less (coupon or special, which are available 100% of the time) at the major chains—they're just not the same pizza you were getting in the 80s up to about the late 90s.<p>[EDIT] In fact, the 2020-on inflation is the first time I've seen the big chains seriously give in on keeping price increases in check. They've gone up like 20% in the last couple years.
Hello, I am the maker of the website. I'm sorry to hear it's crashing some browsers, I'll try to figure out what's happening. It's a clean install of wordpress so I'm confused what I did wrong.<p>The reason there is an odd amount for dollar slice total is that one place had the nerve to charge me tax ($1.09). I concede that the quality at Joes has gone down over the years. I am closely noting the recommendations in this thread, and I am very relieved to no longer have to eat bad pizza just to add it to the map.
I'm not a New Yorker, but a New York food person I follow has a small rant about how people obsess about the best NYC slice, but that the real point of NYC pizza is that it's available everywhere in the city, like that you are never far from a good NYC slice --- so that the idea of seeking out particular slices kind of misses the point.<p>NYC'ers: how bad is that take?<p>(None of this is to say that it's illegitimate for New Yorkers to have opinions about whether the NYC slices they happen to be near, or were near before, are better than the others --- in the same sense as there are Italian Beef rivalries in Chicago.)
I used to live above Best Pizza (Williamsburg) and lived there when they opened. In my opinion, the best heuristic for good pizza is just the quality of tomatoes they use. San Marzano or Roma for the east coast, but on the west coast you have a ton of local options. I'm not saying you can't have good pizza from processed tomato sauce, I'm just saying that a place that cares about the quality of tomatoes also cares about the quality of their pizza.<p>A lot of quick order places will just have the cans visible. A great way to experiment with pizza is to just experiment with local tomatoes. I never wanted to become a pizza snob, but living on top of one of the most quality pizza joints in town and knowing the guys there and their favorite spots... well... now i am.<p>Here's a basic recipe from Frank. Anyone can make extremely high quality pizza at home by following his advice: <a href="https://youtu.be/whnvQBhXh3A" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/whnvQBhXh3A</a><p>The funniest thing that happened there was probably when this interested guy was asking 'the locals' how we liked it, and what was popular... we found out a week later that he was very probably this NYT food reviewer: <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/dining/reviews/09under.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/09/dining/reviews/09under.ht...</a>
This is a fascinating list. No Mama's Too, no Prince St, no L'Industrie, no F&F. All of which are probably my top 4 for slices. Scarr's is there though, which rounds out my top 5.<p>I don't eat a lot of pizza personally but I do love a good slice. What I love about New York isn't necessarily that we have the best pizza (although we do have places that are in the running for the best), but that the average quality is so damn high. You don't get a lot of overly doughy, bad cheese, bad sauce BS unless you frequent dollar slice shops.
It's difficult to notice inflation living in NYC because everything is just expensive. If a coffee or a slice of pizza or a bagel goes up by 20%, that's less than a buck on average, and prices among those products already vary by a lot more than buck. So it's never going to be a shocking increase. Or even noticeable. Combine that with the resignation that most New Yorkers have to the fact that shit is just expensive, and it's hard to really feel an impact from all this inflation that the media has been blaring about for a year. Am I spending slightly more day-to-day than I did a year or two ago? Probably, but I'd be hard-pressed to prove it. I guess it's more obvious if you make a chart!
A fun project could be to quantify how much less pepperoni toppings, NY pizzerias have been putting on pizza. Train a CV model to detect what a slice is, what a pepperoni topping is. Then feed it public pictures of NY pizza over the past 10 years. An interesting result would be something like "NY pizzerias have been putting 16% less pepperoni on pizza". This would totally get news traffic and generate some buzz, and be a practical example of non-price inflation.
Reading Zvi's taxonomy of pizzas ( <a href="https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/03/17/restaurant-guide-2-pizza/" rel="nofollow">https://thezvi.wordpress.com/2017/03/17/restaurant-guide-2-p...</a> ) was when I realized that NY style pizza is the type I love. Bookmarking this list to go through on a future trip to NYC!
Looks like the correlation between the cost of a slice and a subway fare has decoupled.<p><a href="https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_Principle" rel="nofollow">https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pizza_Principle</a>
I find the perceived sensitivity to food pricing, especially in high income areas like NYC, interesting.<p>The author points out that in 8 years, the average cost of a slice of pizza has hardly moved, but the amount of sauce on them has been reduced as a cost cutting measure.<p>Would a pizza place really see reduced traffic if they kept the same recipe and raised their price another $0.55 to compensate for inflation?
Maybe unpopular opinion: NJ has better pizza on average, although you can find better pizza in NYC if you're looking for something specific. Just my opinion obviously.
Been living in New York for the past 20+ years. Sadly, inflation has diminished the quality and quantity of the average corner pizza shop's slice. Yes, the Artichoke Basil slice the author refers to is much more expensive, but it's also bigger than the average slice of pizza in NYC - and the quality of ingredients seems better. The $1 slice shops (now more like the $1.50 slice shops) live on low margin and high volume. I can attest that it's great when you're in a hurry and just want to get something in your system. For quality pizza slices, well, you're just going to have to pay $3-$5 for a slice nowadays ($1 or more for toppings).
Blogger and now author about the experience did something similar, reviewing pizza slices in NY, 2009-2011 <a href="http://www.sliceharvester.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.sliceharvester.com/</a>
<a href="https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Slice-Harvester/Colin-Atrophy-Hagendorf/9781476705897" rel="nofollow">https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/Slice-Harvester/Colin...</a>
It looks like the price of pizza has been steadily increasing while the quality going (somewhat?) down. I believe this fits the definition of inflation. Do you remember a year (longer?) ago, all major news sources were telling us that the inflation was only temporary? I wonder why nobody put together a web service that “gives us our memory back”, so that we could make better assessment of various news sources going forward and make better decisions as a result?
I lived in Manhattan for the last year, and lived within train distance as a child, and it's pretty striking how much changing economics affect what you can get.<p>Notice that all the slices are plain CHEESE or some variant of it (you can get it with no sauce, or no cheese too!)<p>I can't get a mushroom or veggie slice anymore at so many places? Feels like a recipe for malnutrition and weight gain.
If you ever get a chance, try to grab a pie from Chrissy’s Pizza (no store, made in a home oven in BK, have to follow on insta for when pies can be ordered). For slices, NY Suprema good as well<p>And some of the best slices can be found across the river in NJ - just travel up Bloomfield Avenue into the Caldwells and there are great slice shops all over.
Guys, The best pizza in NY is in NJ <a href="https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/dining/razza-pizza-review-jersey-city.html" rel="nofollow">https://www.nytimes.com/2017/09/12/dining/razza-pizza-review...</a><p>Dunno why it is not included in this list..
"The biggest thing I have noticed is the decline in the amount of sauce put on slices. I’m sure this is a cost-saving measure, but the overall quality of your average slice in the city has definitely suffered."<p>Yes, that's generally what happens with a _stupid_ "cost-saving measure", whicb our culture defends to the hilt for some reason.<p>There's ways to cut costs without compromising quality, called a _smart_ cost-saving measure, but our culture isn't about quality anymore, is it? It's all about saving/making money, but money doesn't taste very good, does it? I'd rather spend a little more for a quality piece of pizza than save money eating something that tastes more like cardboard than before.
Everyone is obsessed with NYC but these types of slices can be found in all the major east coast cities and is definitely one thing I miss about Philly. I'm in LA now and you'd think with how many Italians there are around here there'd be a higher standard but nope.
Pizza costs? Two old posts on topic and possibly of value, one pizza for one for about $1 per pizza:<p>Pizza is one of my standard food items, and I explained how I make pizza in<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34081087" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34081087</a><p>with some more details in<p><a href="https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34085805" rel="nofollow">https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=34085805</a><p>Those two, old posts might be of some value for people interested in pizza. For costs, I estimate the cost of ingredients for my pizza for one person at about $1 per pizza, that is, a lot less than single slices in NYC.
I agree with most of the comments in the thread about NYC, but would like to point out that there are some really great old school pizza places in Nassau County (Long Island, just east of NYC) that rival any NYC pizza place.
Anecdotally, I've felt the same way. Didn't properly record it.. but, slices these days in NYC (and outside) are definitely lacking in sauce lately. Some places even feel like they're cutting on salt and oil too.<p>I will add that the quality also highly depends on when you go. Generally, the busier it is, the worse the quality.<p>The author states that Joe's is one of the better ones, but I think the quality has gone down too. I was there in 2014, 2017, and 2022. Digging up my photos to review the sauce amounts, but I felt 2022 was very lackluster to previous memories.
Native from Ozone Park, still living here. I'm excited but not surprised to see Ozone Pizza AND New Park on that list. This neighborhood along with Howard Beach to the south was mostly Italian immigrants and their descendants so good Italian food was/is a staple. Of course it was full of mobsters and is the Goodfellas neighborhood; parts were even filmed around here for authenticity, check out Nier's Tavern. Into the late 90's and early 00's you could still walk into a local joint like Ozone or Romeo's and sometimes in the corner would be a table of well dressed older gentlemen speaking Italian. And no one sat near them because you knew not to.<p>New Park is a local landmark and its been around for decades, my father ate there as a kid. They have this unique old school slice with lightly sweet sauce and the bottom is salted giving a wonderful balance of flavor to the ingredients. They don't make frilly slices so no buffalo or vegetable slices, just standard toppings. It's big with JFK workers and cops so the place is busy and volume is high and they tend to under-cook the pizzas so ask for it well done. And even if its under cooked and slightly doughy its still damn good.<p>Ozone Pizza is not only good but cheap. I can order a pie, usually half mushroom/eggplant and half pepperoni, with an order of garlic twists that comes with this amazing marinara sauce for $23 and change. Delivered. Domino's cant compete in price or quality. They also have a really good buffalo slice based on a white slice. Before I stopped eating a little too rich I used to walk over and grab a buffalo slice and a beef patty with cheese n pepperoni (another NYC staple not many know of - take a fresh Jamaican beef patty, slice it open, cover with mozzarella and top with pepperoni then bake. see also beef patty on a roll with cheese - perfect drunk food)<p>Not on the list but I'm also a fan of Dani's House of Pizza in Kew Gardens. I love their signature pesto slice which is usually sold out. A few times my brother and I would get sick of waiting for a pesto slice so we'd order ahead and pick up a full pesto pie. Their regular slice is very good with a sweet sauce. During the summer I sometimes walk or cycle up to forest park, walk around until I'm hungry then go to Dani's for a pesto and regular slice. I usually sit on a bench at the LIRR station around the corner and dig in.
I love how even in a city like NYC, there's a restaurant called "Pizza Italia". I mean it doesn't get more small-towny than that does it?
I actually prefer my pizza with less sauce, or preferably white pizza (I know, sacrilege) either the garlic butter variant or the ricotta variant. I've never had pizza in NYC, but favorites have always been Rizzo's and Roman Delight in the northern Philly suburbs. Both great places that I've eaten at hundreds of times. I'm sure NYC has good pizza, but Philadelphia is no slouch.
Gotta get up to 101st and Broadway and try sal & Carmines. Little hole in the wall but was my favorite NYC slice despite no one ever talking about it.
> This calculation excludes dollar slices.<p>So, they only counted data from places where the price has gone up and concluded that...the price has gone up.
Same quality decline is happening in Italy. We're seeing also a polarization, at least in the north, where I live.<p>On one side "very bad pizza, low/avg price", on the other side "very good pizza, higher prices".<p>All the middle, average pizza places with reasonable prices are going out of business or moving to the the bad side.
I can't turn up my spreadsheet just this second but I did something similar when I worked in Manhattan. I did 54 slices. My big takeway was that I really don't like Joes and that I will die on the hill that Pizzeria Suprema, despite being touristy , is the best slice that I've had in Manhattan.
That's a lot of pepperoni over only 9 years. Have never visited New York, but I'm sure the pizza is fine enough. But is it as good as a any neopolitan pizza you can get in any PNW city? Anyone?<p>Vancouver, Seattle, and Portland have pretty good, though expensive pizza.
Arinell’s in Berkeley is the best NY style pizza in the Bay Area. Just reading these comments makes me want to go there this weekend.<p>I worked near them for 12 years and ate there twice a week the entire time. They are that good.
Similar account for kebab in Sweden <a href="https://www.instagram.com/kebabogram/" rel="nofollow">https://www.instagram.com/kebabogram/</a>
Waiting for the stats from there as well :)
For anyone who hasn't been to New York this is what a slice looked like at my local pizza place down the street:<p><a href="https://imgur.com/a/9wRM859" rel="nofollow">https://imgur.com/a/9wRM859</a><p>Delicious.
Since the pandemic, large pizzas have all gone up to $11 from the chains, so I have just started buying $4/5 frozen pizzas (coupon or on sale), or the $6 take home and bake pizza from the grocery store deli.
The CSV is here if anyone wants to take a look<p><a href="https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/kwc7V/4/dataset.csv" rel="nofollow">https://datawrapper.dwcdn.net/kwc7V/4/dataset.csv</a>
Excludes the dollar slices, but oddly enough I prefer those over the more expensive ones. I think it's cause they're less oily. Do they have fake cheese or something?
There was a Papa John's in Bay Ridge that sold $1 slices in 2009. It was just a cheese slice but I enjoyed it.<p>I do not enjoy Costco pizza and I enjoy more pizzas than I probably should.
Curious how the dollar slices added up to a non-whole dollar amount. The name would imply that a dollar slice is $1. Is $.99 also considered a dollar slice?
Cheese is the most expensive ingredient, and labor the most expensive cost of delivery.<p>Do NYC "dollar" slices skimp on cheese in quantity and/or quality?
I have found that I need to pay $5 for a good slice, nowadays.<p>Most pizza even in NYC is not good, by my standards. I.e., I can do better than those at home.
The obsession with "best NYC pizza" is funny to New Yorkers. Pizza is usually not a food that you plan for it and go somewhere far to have it. The best pizza is the one nearby. They're all good. Just enjoy it and stop with the FOMO
Nowhere on that page do I see "inflation-adjusted" price.<p>That could be <i>overall</i> inflation, which would cover rent, wages, utilities, taxes, etc.<p>The prices of tomatoes, flour, mozzarella, etc. would be even more relevant.