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Nostr: Notes and Other Stuff Transmitted by Relays

194 pointsby pantalaimonover 2 years ago

15 comments

nine_kover 2 years ago
The biggest problem I see here is forwarding someone else&#x27;s unknown <i>and</i> unencrypted content.<p>Imagine you&#x27;re running a relay on your machine, and somebody posts some CSAM, or stolen CC data, or hate speech, etc through your relay.<p>Unlike an email client, your relay actually makes that message available to anyone.<p>Unlike an email relay, you are not forwarding the message to someone else like a dumb pipe; there&#x27;s no final destination.<p>Unlike a torrent &#x2F; DHT node, you do not know beforehand what you are going to make available.<p>Unlike a Tor exit node, you do not deal in encrypted fragments which you don&#x27;t store locally.<p>Unlike an IPFS node, you do not store fragments of files while not even having a full set of such fragments for a given file.<p>Even though the message is signed, you can&#x27;t reasonably prove that you do not possess the private key used to sign it, or have not possessed.<p>So, if you are an anti-censorship activist, and your machine gets searched (which may be even easier to do in the case of a VPS), you, the runner of the relay, may have some pretty unpleasant time. Even if you manage to convince everyone that you only forward these messages and do not inspect or endorse them, and the authorities will not even fine you, it will cost you time and trouble.<p>Worse, it becomes easy to send something incriminating from a throwaway or stolen client <i>through</i> your relay, and report you to the police. This can of course be done with email or any IM, but these will immediately show you what you&#x27;ve got, so you can e.g. immediately delete it. They do not allow perfect strangers quietly put random stuff onto your disk.<p><i>Of course</i> the point of the protocol is to resist censorship, so any content deemed criminal by someone cannot be entirely blocked. But the publishers and the receivers of such content make their choice, while those running a relay seem to remain unprotected from from consequences of that choice which they did not make.
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FreeTradeover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m working on software (member.cash) that bridges multiple decentralized social networks together and recently added support for Nostr.<p>Compared to the others, Nostr is optimized for innovation - it is easy to build new features on top and we&#x27;ll see a lot of growth and evolution because of that. I really like that about it.<p>The problems I see with it right now are 1. Timestamps are easily forgeable 2. Difficult to control spam 3. Little incentive to run relays 4. Difficult to search the whole network<p>There are ideas on how to solve all of the problems, like POW on messages, like super relays(basically a mempool), there&#x27;s a NIP for timestamps.<p>My guess is that it will evolve towards something that looks a lot like a blockchain. Decentralized Social is one of the few places where a blockchain actually makes sense. This will be interesting because the founding group is ideologically opposed to using a blockchain for anything but the holy BTC.
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larrysalibraover 2 years ago
The best introduction to Nostr is on the Nostr protocol github:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;nostr-protocol&#x2F;nostr#very-short-summary-of-how-it-works-if-you-dont-plan-to-read-anything-else">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;nostr-protocol&#x2F;nostr#very-short-summary-o...</a><p>&gt;Everybody runs a client. It can be a native client, a web client, etc. To publish something, you write a post, sign it with your key and send it to multiple relays (servers hosted by someone else, or yourself). To get updates from other people, you ask multiple relays if they know anything about these other people. Anyone can run a relay. A relay is very simple and dumb. It does nothing besides accepting posts from some people and forwarding to others. Relays don&#x27;t have to be trusted. Signatures are verified on the client side.<p>The FAQ on the same page also answers questions about why Nostr instead of other options like Mastodon, Secure Scuttlebutt, etc.<p>There&#x27;s also a recently launched podcast that talks to some developers building on the protocol:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nostrovia.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nostrovia.org</a>
zikduruqeover 2 years ago
I joined a Nostr relay the other night, and every time I posted a Lightning Node invoice for 100 sats, within minutes I got 2 cents in my wallet.<p>So at least I made some money from this. :)<p>I&#x27;m following the project&#x2F;protocol, it seems interesting. Here are some NIPS <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;nostr-protocol&#x2F;nips">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;nostr-protocol&#x2F;nips</a>
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wcerfgbaover 2 years ago
Is there a threat model? This does not seem to provide any metadata anonymity: if you ask a relay for someone&#x27;s pubs, they know you&#x27;re the person asking for it. Perhaps this could be layered with onion routing through relays to sole that though. At which point this feels like cryptographically-addressed NNTP, which is neato!
friend_and_foeover 2 years ago
I&#x27;m seeing a lot of people not quite understanding what nostr is. I know it can be hard considering this is a crowd focused on products and frameworks and paradigms and what not.<p>It&#x27;s not a &quot;twitter alternative&quot;, it&#x27;s not &quot;federated like mastodon&quot;, it&#x27;s not even social networking. It&#x27;s just a spec for a signed message format and a relay server, that&#x27;s it. It&#x27;s very, very simple, you generate a key, sign a message, send it to whichever relays you want, it serves them to requestors or not, depending on what it wants to do. That is literally all it is.
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Barrin92over 2 years ago
After reading the page for a bit I don&#x27;t really understand the fundamental difference to other decentralized systems except for the global public key based identity.<p>Nostr&#x27;s relays are simply servers that push and receive structured data. So it&#x27;s a sort of an email or http like protocol that&#x27;s by default cryptographically signed? I don&#x27;t really see the magic that makes it censorship resistant or particularly decentralized. The same networking and economic laws that consolidate internet traffic or mastodon servers are at work here too. Relays get popular, produce a lot of traffic, this spawns &quot;nostr as a service&quot; for economic reasons, and that&#x27;s about it.<p>If people want to ban you they&#x27;ll just blacklist your public key across popular instances just like someone on the fediverse does, companies won&#x27;t host your stuff, and so on. If anything tying everything to a single global identity makes it more trivial to blacklist anyone.
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say_it_as_it_isover 2 years ago
Moderation is an essential part of community management, even in darknets. Trust in what is said and what is promised as part of a transaction is what attracts and retains members of the community. Just because you can create a censorship resistant network doesn&#x27;t mean you should.
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leishmanover 2 years ago
We’re building a Nostr relay in Elixir if anyone is interested:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;RiverFinancial&#x2F;nostrex">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;RiverFinancial&#x2F;nostrex</a>
snowstormsunover 2 years ago
Does somebody know whether the same or something similar could be achieved by using the &quot;Network News Transfer Protocol&quot; (nntp), without designing a whole new protocol?
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rufusroflpunchover 2 years ago
I am thoroughly addicted to nostr. I&#x27;ve been building a browser extension for Safari for it, and I feel like I&#x27;m part of something amazing being built.
m348e912over 2 years ago
I saw Snowden tweeted about this. Anyone have a TLDR on what Nostr is exactly? And how it ties into Bitcoin (if at all)?<p>Update: It seems to be partly a twitter alternative perhaps using lightning network in some way. I set up an account on astral.ninja, created keys, username, saw that there were relays that were defined already. I couldn&#x27;t see any posts in my feed, and when I tried to make a post it just hung and never posted anything. Suffice to say my initial experience started off okay, then dissapointment.
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lormaynaover 2 years ago
Nostr is very interesting, for some aspects it looks like a decentralized NNTP.
gigatexalover 2 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand Nostr&#x27;s comments on trying to be deplatform-proof. On Mastodon, for example, if you get kicked off a node just spin up your own node. If nobody wants to hear you spewing your stuff then you&#x27;ll soon be screaming into the void but what you post will still be viewable on the web and to those that subscribe to you. So I don&#x27;t get what Nostr is trying to do.
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milansukover 2 years ago
Does Nostr have a Wikipedia page? I&#x27;m wondering how old is it, the people behind it, some stories?
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