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Zoom lays off 15% of employees

636 pointsby brakmicover 2 years ago

67 comments

haswellover 2 years ago
&gt; <i>As the CEO and founder of Zoom, I am accountable for these mistakes and the actions we take today– and I want to show accountability not just in words but in my own actions. To that end, I am reducing my salary for the coming fiscal year by 98% and foregoing my FY23 corporate bonus. Members of my executive leadership team will reduce their base salaries by 20% for the coming fiscal year while also forfeiting their FY23 corporate bonuses.</i><p>It’s nice to see the phrase “I am accountable” followed by a description of what that accountability entails.<p>Whether or not the steps taken seem fair is a separate conversation, but it seems like a step in the right direction.<p>When you’re making CEO salary, no amount of salary reduction will have a day to day impact, but this seems strongly symbolic at least.
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madamelicover 2 years ago
This sucks but something like COVID should normalize the idea in the minds of workers that all workers are disposable regardless of education or skill. If you don&#x27;t own 51% of the company, you are disposable.<p>Zoom had a use for you during COVID, now they don&#x27;t: bye-bye. You were used, they got what they needed and now it is time to go. That&#x27;s how workers are treated and people should understand that. You are not George from Engineering, you are employee #3223 and you cost $x per year. Past maybe 20 - 25 people, you are nothing but a number and quickly after you no longer create more value than you are paid, you are out.<p>Unlike others <i>cough</i> Facebook <i>cough</i> Google <i>cough</i>, Zoom actually a reason to scale during COVID; they were relatively new, they had crazy demand, and the access to money to do it. Zoom was given a blank check and leadership would&#x27;ve been worse for _not_ taking it.<p>That happened, now it is waning and it is time to &#x27;right size&#x27; (barf) and continue what they were doing before.<p>Good on him for cutting his own salary and comp even if I don&#x27;t think he is as dumb as Zuckerberg or others for their company&#x27;s paper growth.
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linkjuice4allover 2 years ago
There are several points that I don’t see being made in these discussions.<p>1. Layoffs would be less painful is major aspects of your life (read: health insurance or your visa) wasn’t tied to employment. Yes the layoffs would still hurt but it wouldn’t be such a catastrophe for the actual workers. This is a discussion for another thread but it’s at least worth mentioning here.<p>2. Unions could certainly provide some protection and security for affected workers. There’s obviously a lot of pluses and minuses about “US” unions but workers guilds, the AMA and bar associations show that there’s other ways for professionals to protect their employment while still providing training, certification, and quality workers.<p>3. The bigger issue seems to be lack of employee ownership in the company. Yes you can purchase stock on the market or through equity grants but they are an optional expense. If these laid off employees were earning actual vested stock from their start date they’d at least leave the company with some tangible asset and be in the same boat as these executives. If laying off workers is a good financial move for the company then at least they will get a softer landing. Employees will also have the same incentives as executives to boost stock prices and could flex their power to punish poorly performing executives. That last reason is likely why employees have to buy their way in instead of just getting stock as part of their comp. Obviously it isn’t as simple as giving away stock and hoping everything works out alright but you’d cut down on a lot of these discussions about executives not feeling the pain.
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nunezover 2 years ago
&gt; To that end, I am reducing my salary for the coming fiscal year by 98% and foregoing my FY23 corporate bonus. Members of my executive leadership team will reduce their base salaries by 20% for the coming fiscal year while also forfeiting their FY23 corporate bonuses.<p>Eric is probably already wealthy and can withstand a 98% cut to his base, but I definitely respect him more for doing that than the nothing other execs have done (at least publicly).
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MuffinFlavoredover 2 years ago
&gt; We have made the tough but necessary decision to reduce our team by approximately 15% and say goodbye to around 1,300 hardworking, talented colleagues.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.macrotrends.net&#x2F;stocks&#x2F;charts&#x2F;ZM&#x2F;zoom-video-communications&#x2F;number-of-employees" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.macrotrends.net&#x2F;stocks&#x2F;charts&#x2F;ZM&#x2F;zoom-video-comm...</a><p>Zoom Video Communications total number of employees in 2022 was 6,787, a 53.48% increase from 2021.<p>Zoom Video Communications total number of employees in 2021 was 4,422, a 74.64% increase from 2020.<p>Zoom Video Communications total number of employees in 2020 was 2,532, a 48.77% increase from 2019.<p>Zoom Video Communications total number of employees in 2019 was 1,702, a INF% increase from 2018.<p>Probably not the most up to date&#x2F;accurate info.<p>If 1300 is 15% of their workforce, they are up to 8.6k employees, headed back down to 7366, still all time high.<p>Did they really think COVID lifestyle was going to stay forever and their business would be gangbusters forever?<p>What % of their 7000-8000 employees (ignoring any contractors I guess) are engineers? 60%?<p>4200 engineers to work on an app that at its core is... video conferencing?<p>&gt; Zoom has 300 million users in meetings daily. 89% of zoom users use it for work meetings. 73.41 million downloads of the Zoom app were recorded worldwide in the first quarter of 2022.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=zoom+daily+active+users" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.google.com&#x2F;search?q=zoom+daily+active+users</a><p>What new features have they rolled out past 12 months that justify needing 4,000 engineers&#x2F;project managers&#x2F;product managers&#x2F;QA team&#x2F;dev ops&#x2F;whatever fulltime?<p>I&#x27;d really like to learn the truth to why this statement is wrong: &quot;The average person has more business sense than the CEO of Zoom and its entire board of executives who allowed rampant hiring because I could&#x27;ve guessed during COVID, despite the surge in demand given all of the work-from-home during lockdowns, my company most likely won&#x27;t grow forever, therefore I won&#x27;t triple my staff over the next 3 years and then need to just end up laying them off&quot;<p>Like there&#x27;s no way it&#x27;s just that simple. Google says the CEO is worth between $4bn and $25bn. He has to be smarter than the average bear. What am I missing?
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parover 2 years ago
He is taking a 98% paycut on salary and foregoing his bonus, but I wonder what his equity based comp is as a % of his total comp. My guess is he is mostly compensated in equity.
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pearjuiceover 2 years ago
I find it remarkable that after the pandemic bump, zoom stock value is basically back at where it started. Peaking at almost a x10 price increase pre-pandemic to pandemic-top, investors are now stating &quot;zoom is worth almost as much to us as it was pre-pandemic&quot;. Meaning that in a business sense, they seem to have captured near zero value of the entire pandemic-boom in their stock price?
coolbreezetft22over 2 years ago
How quickly times can change. A few years ago a CS degree and software job seemed like the most secure and easy way to a guaranteed high paying job while everything else was harder. Now it seems every software company is laying people off while the overall job market outside of tech is stronger than ever.<p>Sucks to be a new CS grad this summer
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bufordtwainover 2 years ago
If your employer has a pet name for its employees (zoomies, tweeps...) and layoffs haven&#x27;t happened yet, consider updating your resume.
Patrol8394over 2 years ago
&gt; Supporting departing Zoomies<p>Zoomies??? stop using this language, these are people with a life outside your company. Refer to them as such, not fck zoomies….
MrGilbertover 2 years ago
Maybe it’s just me, but nowadays I&#x27;m reluctant of the &quot;We are a big family&quot; shenanigans. If I read &quot;Zoomies&quot;, I&#x27;m pretty sure that won&#x27;t help the people that are being laid off today.<p>You aren’t family, you are workers.
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ocelikerover 2 years ago
I feel like Zoom is the Coca-Cola to Google and Microsoft&#x27;s Pepsi. Zoom is the &quot;OG&quot; product (in the post-March-2020 remote working world), and probably most people&#x27;s personal favorite. But their competitors have caught up, and they are getting a significant portion of corporate contracts now. And unlike with soda, I don&#x27;t think there is a lot of direct-to-consumer opportunity in this field.
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blfrover 2 years ago
<i>Zoom has become an indispensable source of connection for businesses</i><p>I haven&#x27;t been to an online meeting that wasn&#x27;t MS Teams or Google Meet in three months. Sadly, Slack, Zoom, and other similar nice-to-have corporate tools seem bound to get eaten by the integrated productivity suites.
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rvzover 2 years ago
Given that no-one here is talking about Keybase, I am going to assume they were significantly affected.
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phtrivierover 2 years ago
Laymen question : do you know how the magic number of &quot;12-15%&quot; gets decided ? Either is just everyone copying each other to please their boards (reasonable hypothetical), or there is one investor that make the same demand everywhere, or there is some regulation behind it, or there is some math ?<p>I mean, it seems like the stock price would go up too if they laid off 20 or 25, or maybe 50%, and maybe some bold CEO is going to get a huge bonus by taking the full responsibility of firing everyone except the accounting department ?
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insane_dreamerover 2 years ago
Did every tech company CEO have the same brain fart that the 2020-2021 artificial growth created by COVID was going to last a decade or more? I don&#x27;t think so -- because if they did they&#x27;d all be pretty stupid, and I don&#x27;t think they&#x27;re that stupid. But I guess it&#x27;s a convenient excuse and sounds better than &quot;we always knew we&#x27;d have to get rid of you when the music stopped&quot;.
theususover 2 years ago
I don&#x27;t understand, Zoom for my perspective is everywhere today. What business issues are they facing?
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AlbertCoryover 2 years ago
If you&#x27;re hired for the Christmas rush, you know it&#x27;s temporary. These poor people probably didn&#x27;t realize they were just a temporary hire.<p>Would they have joined if Zoom had disclosed on hiring them, &quot;We&#x27;re experiencing a once-in-a-lifetime growth spurt because of COVID. If and when that ends, we may have to lay you off.&quot; ??
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neilvover 2 years ago
Is layoffs in the neighborhood of 15% right now because it&#x27;s an amount that large companies think is safe to trim, in terms of work to be done or their capacity to get work done?<p>Or is it a psychological number that&#x27;s high but not <i>too</i> high for some party?<p>Or something else?
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p1eskover 2 years ago
Severance: “Up to 16 weeks’ salary” - what does “up to” means exactly?
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justinzollarsover 2 years ago
Generally, (disregarding the Zoom news) How is everyone holding up? Have you been effected, or know friends effected? How are they holding up? Are they finding jobs?
josephcsibleover 2 years ago
&gt; We have made the tough but necessary decision to reduce our team by approximately 15% and say goodbye to around 1,300 hardworking, talented colleagues.<p>By &quot;necessary&quot;, do they mean &quot;we&#x27;d go out of business if we didn&#x27;t do this&quot; or &quot;we&#x27;d still be profitable if we didn&#x27;t do this, just not as profitable as we want to be&quot;?
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fijiaaroneover 2 years ago
Here’s a free feature zoom could implement in only a few months with hundreds of workers — tell me which meeting I’m attending.<p>Here’s another which would be impossible for them to implement correctly — let me see my screen when I’m presenting and don’t cover it with stupid controls, or maybe if you can’t do that, let me see the useful controls too
SergeAxover 2 years ago
The industry is just walking in circles. Nothing new since &quot;Silicon Valley&quot; ended: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;u48vYSLvKNQ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;u48vYSLvKNQ</a>
nathanvanfleetover 2 years ago
We won the pandemic but blood sacrifice to the market is also good
gwillover 2 years ago
i&#x27;ve viewed zoom as largely a joke company given their e2e encryption talk in the past, but this is a solid letter and way to go about laying off that many workers.<p>when first reading this i realized that i had just assumed that zoom had already done layoffs as they were one of the big profiteers of the pandemic.<p>the way they&#x27;re handling this however gives me a lot of respect for the company.
xwowsersxover 2 years ago
Title needs to be fixed. Lays &quot;off*&quot;
smm11over 2 years ago
Zoom is only a thing because of Covid. Didn&#x27;t they grow 75 times over basically overnight? Supply&#x2F;demand.
dmamillsover 2 years ago
three billion dollars in revenue last year
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bhoustonover 2 years ago
Zoom needs to start integrating a lot of AI into its meetings like Microsoft Teams Premium:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.windowscentral.com&#x2F;microsoft&#x2F;microsoft-just-said-its-infusing-openai-in-microsoft-teams-heres-what-that-means" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.windowscentral.com&#x2F;microsoft&#x2F;microsoft-just-said...</a><p>This will be the new standard and Zoom needs to get on the train or people will stop using it.
knewterover 2 years ago
Somehow, I&#x27;m sure that the person in charge of the ux of the godforsaken green bar was not laid off
nibbleshifterover 2 years ago
More CEO&#x27;s virtue signalling their lack of virtue by engaging in the social contagion known as downsizing.<p>Yay.
chad_strategicover 2 years ago
They might want to take off &quot;Don’t forget to share this post&quot; seems like bad optics.
saosover 2 years ago
&gt; Within 24 months, Zoom grew 3x in size to manage this demand while enabling continued innovation.<p>Insane
aftbitover 2 years ago
Surely the title should be: &quot;Zoom lays off 15% of employees&quot;.
joegahonaover 2 years ago
Whoever runs the blog at Zoom might want to remove the giant, cheerful “Don’t Forget To Share This Post!” at the bottom.<p>I would also strongly discourage referring to impacted employees as “Zoomies” or “Latticians” or “Microsofties” in these types of correspondence.
toastalover 2 years ago
I wonder if they&#x27;re keeping the Keybase team around
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hekecover 2 years ago
Hope they will finally be able to work on a good product.
henry_viiiover 2 years ago
TL;DR:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;labs.kagi.com&#x2F;ai&#x2F;sum?url=https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.zoom.us&#x2F;a-message-from-eric-yuan-ceo-of-zoom&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;labs.kagi.com&#x2F;ai&#x2F;sum?url=https:&#x2F;&#x2F;blog.zoom.us&#x2F;a-mess...</a>
Animatsover 2 years ago
Did Zoom file the required layoff pre-notice?
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pyrophaneover 2 years ago
Et tu, Zoom.us?
thinkmassiveover 2 years ago
Anyone still maintaining Keybase?
gedyover 2 years ago
Given how zoom took over the universe in past 3 years, seems like a serious leadership failing to now have to cut 1300 people.
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shapefrogover 2 years ago
TLDR: We have made the tough but necessary decision to reduce our team by approximately 15% and say goodbye to around 1,300 hardworking, talented colleagues.<p>Macroeconomic changes have made it impossible for me to want to pay you.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34515267" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34515267</a><p>ZM stock: 83.26 +6.19 (+8.03%) - thats a profit of 400mil on the day for the CEO.
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picturover 2 years ago
You should change this ridiculous title to summarize the article. Don&#x27;t waste people&#x27;s time.
nemo44xover 2 years ago
Zoomies were impacted.
tagawaover 2 years ago
Title typo: “lays off”
insane_dreamerover 2 years ago
&gt; zoomies<p>can we please stop with all the pet name bs? a large corporation is not a &quot;big family&quot;. it&#x27;s simply degrading. you&#x27;re a number -- you get hired when money is plentiful and the company is expanding, and you get fired when the economy contracts and&#x2F;or shareholders demand even more profits. period.
buggy6257over 2 years ago
<p><pre><code> - Comments about how this is a good thing and bravo to the CEO for actually taking accountability - Replies saying how it&#x27;s never enough and the CEO should be fired for doing something as stupid as hiring people during an economic boom - Comments off ^^^ talking about how much net worth the CEO has based on stock that he hasn&#x27;t liquidated, and how much he made off this temporary stock bump from cutting &quot;cruft&quot; - Comments questioning why &lt;Company&gt; needs # employees to do &lt;overly-reductive description of their product&gt; - Comments pointing out that they still have more employees than pre-covid - Comments assuming that every person laid off was an engineer because why would a tech company hire anything else. - Comments off of ^^^ talking about how it&#x27;s a rough time to be job hunting despite the massive labor shortages in many sectors including tech - Comments about how stupid the demonym for the employees was&#x2F;is </code></pre> I filled out my bingo card. Anyone else?<p>EDIT: I always get HN list formatting wrong.
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brkover 2 years ago
&quot;Zoomies&quot;<p>Just fucking stop with this already. Quit pretending like your employees are so aligned with the company that some kind of special terminology is needed, or even logical.<p>The recent tech layoffs have clearly demonstrated, again (again, as in we&#x27;ve seen this play out a few times in the 2000&#x27;s), that employees are basically assets that are scaled up and down as needed, like all the rest of corporate infrastructure these days.<p>Also, when your company is something that more or less is a B2B or B2C app (like zoom) and 1,500 employees is a number that you can lay off and still keep operating, you should have recognized this massive over staffing a LONG time ago and made more gradual corrections to get to a logical and supportable number. Note, this could be slowing down hiring, or charging a lot more for your product, but given the lingering freemium pricing, it&#x27;s mostly going to be hiring less and not charging more.<p>These layoff emails are almost parody at this point.
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DoneWithAllThatover 2 years ago
I find it kind of funny, kind of disappointing how in every one of these threads a bunch of the highly voted comments are complaining about some aspect of the layoff, like the goalposts keep moving.<p>The way the layoffs were communicated, the fact that they were staggered, the fact that they weren’t staggered, that the ceo&#x2F;founder doesn’t take responsibility, that they do but they don’t take action to punish themselves&#x2F;their team, that the packages weren’t good enough, or as in this case, that the company (that they don’t even work for) has a name for their employees.<p>Endless whinging. And it’s exhausting to read.
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luismedelover 2 years ago
I find the use of infantile terms like &#x27;zoomie&#x27; insulting. Please, treat your employees with due respect. You&#x27;re giving them life-changing news.
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trynewideasover 2 years ago
&gt; On September 1, 2020, Yuan&#x27;s net worth was estimated to be US$16.4 billion, a figure 360% higher than his net worth at the beginning of the year. In March 2021, Yuan transferred $6 billion worth of Zoom shares to a grantor retained annuity trust, for which Yuan is a trustee.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Eric_Yuan" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Eric_Yuan</a><p>Fun trivia: Six billion divided by 1,300 is 4,615,384.62
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mertdover 2 years ago
I really dislike the trend of calling employees by some nickname. &quot;Googler&quot; may have been cute back in the day. Zoomies is pure cringe.
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dustedcodesover 2 years ago
Lol at this point it&#x27;s just comical.<p>Not fun for those laid off, but this is a great life lesson for all those people who have given &quot;loyalty&quot; to their employer.<p>We - the people who you often view as cynical and negative - live by the following rules:<p>- People at work are not your friends. You can have friendly relationships, but they ain&#x27;t your real friends. You will only know if they can become your real friends once you don&#x27;t work at the same company anymore.<p>- NEVER accept less pay for your work than the market rate. If they don&#x27;t pay 100% you never work 100%. Take a second job and do only 50% or less for a company that doesn&#x27;t pay you market rate.<p>- Don&#x27;t work as a full time employee if you can make twice as much as a contractor. Employees have supposedly the benefit of &quot;job security&quot;. LOL. Contractors get paid more because they need to factor in dry spells. Also there are tax benefits for companies to use contractors. The software industry is so robust and even despite all the layoffs the demand for devs is higher than the supply. There is no reason to take on full employment if you can contract with the same level of job security for much more money and much less internal politics.<p>- Shares don&#x27;t mean anything if the company never IPOs. Fuck shares. Ask for hard cash. If you want to have shares and become a millionaire over night then start your own startup. Why suck up to some stranger who gives zero shit about you. You didn&#x27;t invest money into the startup, you didn&#x27;t found it, you are a nobody to them. You do a job for them and they fool you to take on company shares so they can massively underpay you. If you want to earn little and have lots of shares then start a startup yourself. In every other case tell them to get fucked and ask for hard cash.
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trynewideasover 2 years ago
a Lattician, a Flexporter, a Scalien, a Relativian, a Plaid, a Swyftxer, an Elastician, a Krakenite, a Dragon, an Asana, a Wistian, a Nuron, a Bird, a Twilion, a Pitcher, an Olivian, a Snyker, a Panda, an Astronaut, a Superhuman, a VTEXer, a Klarnaut, a Lacer, a Mozillian, a Paddler, an Oyster, a SoundHounder, a Vimean, a Zoopligan, a Motive, a Stasher, a Plerker, a Lokaliser, a Courserian, a Udacian, a Racker, a Gitpodder, a Dutonian, a Googler, a HubSpotter, a Workmate, a Splunker, and a Zoomie walk into a bar
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ITBover 2 years ago
Why do people in HN get so upset that companies hire and fire employees? It sucks as an individual to have to deal with a layoff, but it’s the dynamic of an economy. Optimal growth comes from over and under dampening, not from steady state.
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SeanLukeover 2 years ago
I didn&#x27;t do my job as CEO to keep the company sufficiently profitable, so you must be fired instead of me.
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jasonlfunkover 2 years ago
On a side note.... &quot;Zoomies&quot;, really?
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weakwireover 2 years ago
I love the &quot;Don&#x27;t forget to share this post&quot; at the end of the blog post.
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HollywoodZroover 2 years ago
I think an executive who REALLY means it should forgot EQUITY GRANT and distribute that as compensation to the departing individuals.<p>For some orgs it can mean millions more in severance for the individuals whose lives are impacted because of the decisions of those company executives.
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whalesaladover 2 years ago
Love the &quot;Don’t forget to share this post&quot; at the end of the message.
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xwowsersxover 2 years ago
&gt; For those Zoomies<p>Every fucking time. I just can&#x27;t anymore.
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DueDilligenceover 2 years ago
.. yawn. next.
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r0m4n0over 2 years ago
Wow... doing the math on the layoff count, 100k employees total, that&#x27;s a lot of employees for a video chat app
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baggy_troughover 2 years ago
I cannot stand these cutesy names for employees. &quot;Zoomies&quot;? Yech.
braingeniousover 2 years ago
The “How We Got Here” paragraph is a great example of opaque nonsense.<p>&gt; We didn’t take as much time as we should have to thoroughly analyze our teams or assess if we were growing sustainably, toward the highest priorities.<p>This is… a completely meaningless sentence. All of these ridiculous layoff emails are so condescending (the PagerDuty CEO quoting Martin Luther King Jr. in one of them was a fantastic example of how full of themselves these tech C-level people are)<p>It would be refreshing for one of them to come out and just say “We never planned on employing you longer than we were on the train of sweet sweet covid relief money. We absolutely could afford to keep you, but we plan on doing stock buybacks&#x2F;buying a company yacht for me and my dog.<p>Fuck you, got mine!<p>Sincerely,<p>Guy Who Genuinely Believes Saying “Disruptive” Is An Immeasurably Valuable Skill