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Launch HN: Lago (YC S21) – Open-source usage-based billing

442 pointsby Rafsarkover 2 years ago
Hi HN, we’re the cofounders of Lago: an open-source alternative to Stripe Billing, Chargebee, and Recurly. That is, we make software that helps businesses calculate how much their own customers should pay them—based on their subscription, consumption, discounts, taxes, credit notes, or negotiated terms—and then invoice them.<p>Our website is at <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.getlago.com">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.getlago.com</a> and our Github is here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;getlago&#x2F;lago">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;getlago&#x2F;lago</a>.<p>We’re focused on composability (use only the parts you need), metering (measuring how much of a software service end users use, so that the service can charge them based on that), code transparency (we’re open source, so no black box - you can have a full understanding of how we built our API) auditable code, no lock-in into anyone’s ecosystem, and fair pricing (we don’t take a cut of your revenue).<p>We’ve been in Fintech for more than 7 years, and were the earliest employees at Qonto.com (SMB Neobank in EU), where we built and scaled the billing system and led the revenue team that took the company from pre-launch to $100M+ of ARR.<p>Back in the early days at Qonto, our pricing was very simple, a single “all-included” subscription. We budgeted 3 months of a single back-end to “get it done, once and for all”. As we shipped new features (add-ons, new tiers, usage-based etc), improved the packaging, changed our reporting structure as we matured (or instance, we changed the billing cycles from anniversary dates to calendar dates which looked trivial until we had to migrate 100K+ companies), launched new countries (new prices, new taxes implications new reporting!), we iterated on pricing dozens of times.<p>We consistently underestimated the engineering nightmare billing would create, and learned the hard way about side effects: delayed launches at best, billing errors at worst, resulting in churning users. We wrote an article about this that had a large HN thread last year (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31424450" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31424450</a>).<p>We tried to get rid of our home-grown system many times but never found an alternative that was flexible enough. As a result, there were only two options: either stop iterating on pricing and leave revenue on the table, or grow a billing engineering team. We chose the second, but it was expensive. Finding pricing or monetization experts living in spreadsheets is easy, but finding technical professionals to build and maintain a billing system is a real bottleneck. Few engineers or product managers have experience in billing, and it’s rarely a career path they look forward to.<p>At some point, we realized we’d stopped being able to do pricing strategy based on what was best for the company and found ourselves driven by what was easiest to implement—not because we wanted to, but because it was all too complicated. We asked around and realized a lot of companies were in a similar situation. There are a lot of clunky internal billing systems out there! We spent a lot of time analyzing why no one had solved this problem, as we thought companies like Stripe or Chargebee had partially addressed it. We came to the conclusion that a proper solution needed to be open source.<p>A lot of teams continue to build their billing system themselves because they have unique edge cases that closed-source solutions can’t address. They are part of the “long tail”, which a closed-source SaaS has no incentive to invest in solving. That’s how we arrived at the idea of open sourcing “core billing” foundations that other people could use and build on. We don’t solve 100% of use cases either, but what we don’t solve, others can build, without having to reinvent an entire system. We think of Lago’s features like “Legos” you can pick to build your own system, rather than a “one size fits all” billing platform.<p>Unlike closed source solutions, we aim at giving full transparency on how Lago works (auditable code), and enable our users to pick only the parts of our product that are relevant to their needs (e.g., if they are already handling subscription management but want to manage prepaid credits with Lago, they can). You can make your own design decisions, build anything custom that you need, and collaborate with other engineers in the community.<p>For instance, one of our users built a Javascript SDK that is now available to everyone. Others are developing additional “charge models”: for instance we don’t offer the ability to “cap a charge” yet: if you’re a fintech processing transactions, you’d like to bill for instance “2% of the transaction amount capped at $50”, to make your pricing attractive. We’re working with a team who are contributing this to Lago. Other contributions involve adding native integrations with local payment processors (in India, Northern Europe, Africa, Middle East), because they usually cater better to the needs of local players in these regions: better payment success rates, better conversions at checkout pages, and usually better prices.<p>We’re making Lago as open as possible to adjacent tools (e.g., payment processors, quoting software, CRMs, etc.)—both market leaders and niche solutions in smaller markets. We’ve built native integrations with GoCardless and Stripe Payments, but our API is usable with any payment processor from any region, and some community members are already doing so.<p>We’re also partnering with Osohq.com, open-source as well, that manages authorization and entitlements (granting access to a specific feature if a user had subscribed to a specific plan): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;doc.getlago.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;integrations&#x2F;entitlements&#x2F;oso">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;doc.getlago.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;integrations&#x2F;entitlements&#x2F;oso</a> You can also use Lago with automation tools like n8n.io to create workflows, for instance if you notice your end users have an unusually high consumption of your product, and you want to avoid “bill shock”, you might want to alert them or your customer success team to take proactive actions: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;doc.getlago.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;integrations&#x2F;alerting&#x2F;n8n#overconsumption-alerting-example-with-n8n">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;doc.getlago.com&#x2F;docs&#x2F;integrations&#x2F;alerting&#x2F;n8n#overc...</a><p>We’re actively working to build an ecosystem around Lago and address the long tail of edge cases that makes billing and monetization complex, with the help of the community.<p>How it works: Lago collects HTTP events sent by a backend application. These events are automatically aggregated to create “units to be charged”. Each unit can be priced using different pricing models (tiers, packages, percentages). At the end of each billing period (month, quarter, year), a worker gathers all the fees into an invoice (PDF or JSON webhook message). The issued invoice can be connected to various services (payment providers, accounting tools, CRMs) and edited with discounts or credit notes to adjust it.<p>Once the back-end events are sent to Lago, non-technical users can use our user interface and manage pricing without help from engineers. This is what our UI looks like: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;dXnoMRetsr4" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;dXnoMRetsr4</a><p>Lago is self-hostable and you can download a Docker image here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;getlago&#x2F;lago">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;getlago&#x2F;lago</a>. We also have a cloud product that is being used in production. For now we’re still granting access manually, but we’ll make it generally available in the near future. In terms of pricing: the self-hosted product, which contains the core billing features, is free. We’ve tried to make it featureful enough for a business to just use the free product and build what they need on top of it. Premium (i.e paid) features currently include billing on different time zones, credit notes, and will include Salesforce integration in the future. Beyond that, we’re still working out our approach to pricing and have written some of our thoughts about it here: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.getlago.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;how-we-think-about-our-own-pricing">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.getlago.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;how-we-think-about-our-own-pric...</a>.<p>The billing &#x2F; monetization is space is huge and we’re continuing to learn every day, so we would greatly appreciate and are (nervously) eager for your feedback! Thanks!

41 comments

telecudaover 2 years ago
Congrats! We built a usage-based telephony (voice &amp; sms) billing system for our customers and appreciate the pain. Not to take anything away from your launch, but founders &#x2F; product managers should carefully consider if usage-billing (even with a tool like Lago) is best for your business and customers.<p>We started as usage-based then learned a few years in (once we understood customer usage trends - key) that customers would gladly pay ~20% MORE per year for unlimited access because the customer wanted a predictable bill. We essentially rode the same trend of pay-as-you-go mobile to unlimited plans.<p>Later in our history we found investors (and our accountants) liked the predictability as well. It&#x27;s easier to show &quot;up and to the right&quot; when not dealing with a few large customers varying down in usage in one quarter (even if the business was on the upswing).<p>One-size doesn&#x27;t fit all -- usage billing has its place for sure -- just carefully weigh your model as it&#x27;s a huge lift to flip it midstream.
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rapnieover 2 years ago
I submitted separately [0] your blogpost &quot;Open-source licensing and why Lago chose AGPLv3&quot; [1]. I find this a refreshing and good read that counters the usual FUD so many people raise when hearing about the AGPL. In the article is mentioned Plausible [2] who also managed to create a great business this way, and in direct competition to Google Analytics. Well done.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34773891" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=34773891</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.getlago.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;open-source-licensing-and-why-lago-chose-agplv3">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.getlago.com&#x2F;blog&#x2F;open-source-licensing-and-why-l...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;plausible.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;plausible.io</a>
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nwatsonover 2 years ago
In years 2000&#x2F;2001, as the dot-com implosion was happening, I worked for a company where we did patent disclosures (I spent a long time talking to a patent lawyer) discussing in depth ideas for billing systems, including a vendor &#x2F; distributor &#x2F; consumer model (where any entity could be any one or a combination of those w.r.t. a product), data structures, data-collection frameworks, billing &quot;metrics&quot;, passthrough-billing-with-a-cut, differential pricing, resale of combined products, etc. These were turned into patent applications that perhaps merited becoming full-blown patents, or perhaps not. Given the recent rash of companies doing this (e.g., <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.monetize360.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.monetize360.com&#x2F;</a>), I think they were patentable ideas 20+ years ago. The referenced applications should give some prior art coverage for many patent issues one might run into.<p>Of course, the vendor&#x2F;distributor&#x2F;consumer model can become vendor-many-clients through simplication, same ideas hold.<p>As it turned out, the company was lucky to have some data-storage-discovery-and-inventory software built as part of the bigger eventual vision that attracted a buyer. It was not the time to work on ambitious greenfield stuff, I guess. The patents were not relevant to the acquirer, and they lapsed at some point.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083998" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083998</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084000" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084000</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083892" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083892</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083995" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083995</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083994" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083994</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084145" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084145</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083999" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030083999</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084060" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084060</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084343" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084343</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084341" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;patents.google.com&#x2F;patent&#x2F;US20030084341</a><p>[edit: 2000 -&gt; 2000&#x2F;2001 ... &quot;any patent issues&quot; --&gt; &quot;many patent issues&quot; ... a few other in the inventory of ideas ... simplification of model to vendor-many-clients ... fixed one link]
candiddevmikeover 2 years ago
I think this is going to be&#x2F;already is a crowded space. SaaS companies are feeling the burn of layoffs due to per-seat pricing, so metered billing seems like a good alternative. Unfortunately, as a SaaS consumer, I despise it, as it&#x27;s meant to be obtuse and hard to estimate, plus I have yet to see any SaaS&#x2F;IaaS offer real spend controls like stopping the service.
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rileyphoneover 2 years ago
Brad Cox laid out a scheme similar to this in hopes of solving the software crisis, in his 1995 book Superdistribution. Now, it wasn&#x27;t really technically feasible when software was local and native, but in the cloud era it makes a lot more sense. I&#x27;ve personally felt the pain of creating a bespoke multitiered billing system so I appreciate what you&#x27;re trying to do here, good luck!
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haolezover 2 years ago
After clicking on your repo link, for a moment I was taken aback by the repo being 100% written in shell script. :)<p>But then I&#x27;ve noticed that you use git submodules for the frontend and backend. It&#x27;s actually a Rails application from what I can tell.
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aidanlisterover 2 years ago
This is very cool! We just built our own internal billing tool for our company after bad experiences with Recurly and ChargeBee. We are B2B and B2E and ChargeBee&#x2F;Recurly felt very clunky when used for enterprise billing — specifically around usage based billing, discounts, and multiple geographies.<p>The billing part was easy to build (though of course we under-estimated the effort by 10x), but the reporting is the really tricky part. Revenue recognition, plus simple things like correctly tracking upgrades&#x2F;downgrades vs expansion&#x2F;contraction when someone changes plan mid-month.<p>Is this something that Lago does now or intends to include? I could not see it in the docs.
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addandsubtractover 2 years ago
If I have a marketplace (something like RapidAPI or Shopify, for example), can I use Lago to allow my providers to create custom pricing plans for their customers? Skimming the Lago API, I see that I can create all the parts of custom pricing plans, but can I group&#x2F;separate them as well? As in, can there be pricing plans for company A with coupons for A, but company B has their own plans and coupons? Is that something Lago supports, or at least something that I can accomplish with my business logic (ie. prefixing plans with A, B, etc) – or completely out of scope?
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neoecosover 2 years ago
Happy Lago customers here at Mono, we we&#x27;re able to &quot;hack&quot;our way to billing connecting a Kafka listener to n8n and orchestrate all the billing from n8n, rather than expending lots of time integrating. We did all the integrations in 1 week in a &quot;low-code&quot; environment without requiring any developer to work on in.
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abbmover 2 years ago
This looks great, well done. At a previous company we had a relatively simple billing structure, but it was unusual in that it was usage based + an honesty system (clients could elect to not pay in any given instance if the product didn&#x27;t add value in that instance). Add to that, the client often wouldn&#x27;t know whether the product added value until weeks or months after the usage. We ended up writing our own billing stack, and would have <i>loved</i> something like this to just build our little quirks on top of.<p>And as you say, everyone kept telling us &quot;Can&#x27;t you just use Stripe or Chargebee?&quot; but the answer was always no.<p>I will definitely check this out next time I&#x27;m setting up a billing system!
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vnoochetover 2 years ago
I have been keeping track of Lago&#x27;s team for a while now, and I am continually impressed by their achievements and the speed at which they are delivering. Congratulations on the launch!
afeiszliover 2 years ago
We decided to use Lago with our SaaS. Billing is super complicated and Lago handles everything we need out of the box. Building this stuff would have been a nightmare. Really cool!
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nylonstrungover 2 years ago
How do you guys differ from Lotus, the other YC open-source usage based billing company?
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ferdi05over 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch! And thanks for helping the open-source ecosystem to thrive. I&#x27;m always happy to see open-source companies challenging the status quo. Open Source is very often the most reliable choice, and you contribute to spreading the word.
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misterbg089over 2 years ago
I am sorry to be that guy but why ruby? I feel that Lago is a good idea but ruby usage is in a downward trend and few developers want to invest time in ruby projects these days. Was node or python considered?
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foxbeeover 2 years ago
This looks great. Your website is clean and informative - great work. Stripe is awesome but a self-hosted option fits our culture and philosophy a lot better. Will give it a blast when i get a chance.
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idlephysicistover 2 years ago
As someone who was once tasked with fixing a 1200 line Bash script that tabulated customer usage – it got re-implemented in about 400 lines of Python – I like the sound of this. Good luck
0xferruccioover 2 years ago
What’s the advantage of open source usage based pricing? Does this product solve the charging part of the problem or the customer portal admin part of billing?
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simplifyover 2 years ago
How is usage based billing taken from the user&#x27;s point of view? Isn&#x27;t there a sense it disincentivizes a paying customer from using your product?
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i_robiover 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch! Do you think it is appropriate for any kind of SaaS company (e.g. Figma, Airtable…), or just for companies like Snowflake?
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NathanFlurryover 2 years ago
We just rolled out Lago billing in Rivet yesterday. Lago is very well designed and the team is incredibly helpful!
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asselinpaulover 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch!<p>Any plans to tackle Stripe Connect like functionality (platform &#x2F; marketplace payments)?
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Scene_Cast2over 2 years ago
Interesting. Would you know how this compares to turnstile [0]? (I only know about them because I saw their hiring page on HN a week or two ago, and was intrigued.)<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tryturnstile.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;tryturnstile.com&#x2F;</a>
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rubenfiszelover 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch, as a growing and open-source startup ourselves, we are eager to switch to Lago as soon as our stripe fees are gonna become a PITA which I expect to be in the near-future. The product looks amazing and the API seems super well-designed!
xystover 2 years ago
great project and thank you for open sourcing! this is something I need for a future project and you have already built all or most of the features I need for the billing aspect.<p>I&#x27;ll explore the product more on my own and will try to contribute back where possible
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canadiantimover 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch! I fully intend on using Lago for my SaaS.<p>I wonder, would it ever be possible to use the structure provided by lago to also set up a marketplace where user can buy&#x2F;sell from eachother?
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josefbvtover 2 years ago
Wow this is finally happening! Big fan of this team and this product! Congrats for this launch, this is the first milestone of an amazing journey reinventing billing for tech companies!
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neximo64over 2 years ago
It is quite sneaky on the get started page. You are pushed into the cloud option, since the self hosted text is the same color as the background and you can&#x27;t see it.
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arnonover 2 years ago
Congrats Anh-Tho and Raffi! I think this will be big
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JeanEdernover 2 years ago
How do you compare with other processes and workflows to manage billing? For example: using snowflake + DBT to track billable metrics?
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shrisukhaniover 2 years ago
Lago is awesome. We&#x27;ll likely use Lago at my startup (metlo) when we implement full self-serve usage-based billing.
Ke5over 2 years ago
How does it differ from M3ter, Metronome or Amberflow other than open source?
Mino_Skeuover 2 years ago
We use Stripe, any difference ?
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gnerayover 2 years ago
Love to see this. Congrats!
PierreTouzeauover 2 years ago
Nice!! congrats on the launch!
stephanieglsrover 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch!!
JeanEdernover 2 years ago
Congrats!!!
nonethewiserover 2 years ago
How are you able to build something like this while only paying engineers 50k&#x2F;yr?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ycombinator.com&#x2F;companies&#x2F;lago&#x2F;jobs" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ycombinator.com&#x2F;companies&#x2F;lago&#x2F;jobs</a>
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rabidonrailsover 2 years ago
Congrats on the launch, definitely an interesting product and really interesting space. But...didn&#x27;t you guys launch a while ago? Is there something specific you&#x27;re launching now?<p>&gt;&gt; The tech stack we use to build Lago (YC S21), the open source billing API (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32438355" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32438355</a>)<p>&gt;&gt; Lago: The Open Source Stripe Billing Alternative (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32438355" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32438355</a>)<p>&gt;&gt;Lago: The Open Source Stripe Billing Alternative(<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31638797" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=31638797</a>)<p>&gt;&gt;Show HN: 6 Steps to build a usage-based billing system with Lago (YC S21)(<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32765162" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32765162</a>)<p>&gt;&gt; Show HN: Lago: Open-source metering and usage-based billing (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33505229" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=33505229</a>)
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jmacdover 2 years ago
Exciting to see the progress of Lago and the attention being given to the challenges in the SaaS billing world.<p>We&#x27;re also working in the billing space with a complementary tool, Tier (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tierrun&#x2F;tier">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;github.com&#x2F;tierrun&#x2F;tier</a>). Although we currently do not support Lago directly, it&#x27;s exciting to see more options emerging. Their content marketing has been particularly impressive on HN and in general.<p>With metering, entitlement management, CPQ, feature gating, and everything else required in a modern SaaS company, the PriceOps space can be quite complex for developers.<p>Congratulations on the launch and best of luck!
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Aishwarya_gover 2 years ago
This is such a great product and a must have for new age API based products. Congrats on the launch!
评论 #34780613 未加载