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How to pull carbon dioxide out of seawater

43 pointsby tie_over 2 years ago

8 comments

version_fiveover 2 years ago
Had to read most of the way through to get to what I was most interested in:<p><pre><code> The process could be more efficient than air-capture systems, Hatton says, because the concentration of carbon dioxide in seawater is more than 100 times greater than it is in air. In direct air-capture systems it is first necessary to capture and concentrate the gas before recovering it. </code></pre> Sounds like a promising area to explore. I wonder how long it takes water to absorb CO2 in the first place. I picture eventually engineering some kind of big ponds that pull CO2 out of the air and leave limestone sediment behind
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jpm_sdover 2 years ago
There is a whole industry springing up around this idea, it&#x27;s known as &quot;MCDR&quot; (marine CO2 removal). Some startups:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.heimdalccu.com&#x2F;">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.heimdalccu.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vesta.earth&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.vesta.earth&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ebbcarbon.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ebbcarbon.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.planetarytech.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.planetarytech.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;capturacorp.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;capturacorp.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.runningtide.com&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.runningtide.com&#x2F;</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.climatefoundation.org&#x2F;xprize.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.climatefoundation.org&#x2F;xprize.html</a>
AtlasBarfedover 2 years ago
So they have the carbon as bicarbonate, and they are reforming carbon dioxide?<p>I&#x27;m no chemist, but ... is there something solid that it could be converted to instead? Like baking soda, rather than a difficult to store gas?<p>Maybe something like this?<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;desalination-breakthrough-saving-the-sea-from-salt&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.scientificamerican.com&#x2F;article&#x2F;desalination-brea...</a><p>Wow, I didn&#x27;t know salinity doubled in the Arabian sea in only 10 years.
Cheetah26over 2 years ago
This article makes no mention of the power required for a process like this. A few days ago there was a post describing the older seawater method which stated that to remove as much carbon from the ocean as we are putting in would require ~70% of current global electricity production.<p>Unless the improvements made here are really significant, I don&#x27;t see how this actually solves anything until we have moved to truly clean energy production.
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hedoraover 2 years ago
Here is some more context on related technologies:<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.american.edu&#x2F;sis&#x2F;centers&#x2F;carbon-removal&#x2F;fact-sheet-ocean-alkalinization.cfm" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.american.edu&#x2F;sis&#x2F;centers&#x2F;carbon-removal&#x2F;fact-she...</a><p>The MIT article presents an expensive strawman alternative, but ignores simpler, cheaper technologies that already exist.<p>In particular, since CO2 acidifies the ocean, dumping alkaline chemicals into sea water converts the CO2 to inert solids, which precipitate out. At least, that&#x27;s the theory. Caveats in link.
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immmmmmover 2 years ago
&gt; in places such as fish farms, which tend to acidify the water, so this could be a way of helping to counter that effect.<p>so basically overeating fish is to be offset by miracle technology. brilliant.
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jkqwzsooover 2 years ago
The first thing that came to mind when I saw the abstract was that existing bipolar membrane electrodialysis processes already provide a convenient way of performing the pH swing process they are developing, but with membranes that are already produced on km^2&#x2F;year scale. Companies like Neosepta or Veolia (formerly Suez formerly GE Water formerly Ionics) produce bipolar membranes for this task, and it&#x27;s a rapidly growing area of interest.<p>A bipolar membrane (BPM) consists of a polymer membrane full of positively charged groups (the anion-exchange resin) intimately bound to a polymer membrane full of negatively charged groups (the cation-exchange resin). The interface (reminiscent of a p-n junction) is known as a bipolar junction, and acts as an electrode under a sufficiently high potential gradient. They are made out of cheap materials which have been used in ion-exchange resins and membranes since the 60s, but the bipolar membrane process is niche and hasn&#x27;t been anywhere as highly developed as other electrodialysis membranes. And electrodialysis is fairly niche, and hasn&#x27;t been nearly as highly developed as membranes for gas separation, desalination, or removal of particulates (ultra- and micro-filtration).<p>It turned out that electrodialysis is less efficient for seawater desalination than reverse osmosis (the potential drop through the product water becomes really severe if you&#x27;re trying to produce drinking water from seawater), so electrodialysis was half-abandoned in comparison to RO. Oddly, Japanese companies developed a lot of ED technology to its current state, including ion-selective cation exchange membranes, for producing table salt, since Japan doesn&#x27;t have the climate necessary for normal salt evaporation. The ion-selective cation resins were developed for removing Mg from seawater for table salt, but are now popular for researchers trying to do lithium separations.<p>Anyway, while I agree with the authors that BPMs have unresolved challenges (related to efficiency, mechanical stability, and the fact that current membranes are required to be loaded with transition metal catalyst to get a decent water splitting rate at a low overpotential), I don&#x27;t know that I&#x27;m convinced that their approach is better just because they call BPMs &quot;expensive&quot; four times. If we wanted to adjust the pH of a lot of water, we would need, as a guess, roughly the same amount of electrode catalyst surface area, or the same amount of bipolar junction surface area. However, the bipolar junction is made out of commodity polymer resins heat laminated together, while the electrodes in this study are made out of silver and bismuth. If the bipolar membrane is loaded with a metal catalyst, the most common one is iron. I don&#x27;t see the BPMs being the more costly solution for very long.<p>For full disclosure, I recently started doing some work on BPMs, but I think the problems associated with it are solvable, especially for applications like this (as opposed to much more challenging conditions like CO2 electrolyzers).
pvaldesover 2 years ago
One clam at a time