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Request for Startups: Kill Hollywood.

2060 pointsby dzlobinover 13 years ago

184 comments

dangalmost 2 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20120121035139&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ycombinator.com&#x2F;rfs9.html" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;web.archive.org&#x2F;web&#x2F;20120121035139&#x2F;http:&#x2F;&#x2F;ycombinato...</a>
malkiaover 13 years ago
Here is what Francis Ford Coppola has to say on the matter:<p><a href="http://the99percent.com/articles/6973/Francis-Ford-Coppola-On-Risk-Money-Craft-Collaboration" rel="nofollow">http://the99percent.com/articles/6973/Francis-Ford-Coppola-O...</a><p>"We have to be very clever about those things. You have to remember that it’s only a few hundred years, if that much, that artists are working with money. Artists never got money. Artists had a patron, either the leader of the state or the duke of Weimar or somewhere, or the church, the pope. Or they had another job. I have another job. I make films. No one tells me what to do. But I make the money in the wine industry. You work another job and get up at five in the morning and write your script.<p>This idea of Metallica or some rock n’ roll singer being rich, that’s not necessarily going to happen anymore. Because, as we enter into a new age, maybe art will be free. Maybe the students are right. They should be able to download music and movies. I’m going to be shot for saying this. But who said art has to cost money? And therefore, who says artists have to make money?<p>In the old days, 200 years ago, if you were a composer, the only way you could make money was to travel with the orchestra and be the conductor, because then you’d be paid as a musician. There was no recording. There were no record royalties. So I would say, “Try to disconnect the idea of cinema with the idea of making a living and money.” Because there are ways around it."
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pgover 13 years ago
Incidentally, Paul Buchheit deserves all the credit for this idea. The YC partners were having lunch yesterday and he suggested posting this RFS. Whereupon we all turned to Jessica, who is usually the one who talks us out of doing crazy things. I was kind of surprised she didn't try to talk us out of it.
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jerfover 13 years ago
I think this is the sort of thing that history will record as the <i>true</i> result of SOPA. Not the mobilization of the public, which despite how thrilling it may feel even today is still something that will not be easily replicated, but the fact that significant chunks of the Internet industry now realize they are in unavoidable, open warfare with the content industry. The Internet industry can no longer pretend to itself that it is neutral, or that the content industry is.<p>There's been a lot of concern expressed about the fact that the RIAA and MPAA will try again, and we can't count on public mobilization to save us. But I don't think that's the true backstop. The true backstop is that the Internet industry will hopefully become more engaged, and it will hopefully shortly become much less easy for this dying industry to push a bill through Congress.<p>At least for now, consumers will win. We should keep our eyes peeled for when that changes, because it is only a matter of time, but this should buy us some years.
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Keyframeover 13 years ago
I am a director, I can speak on this from experience. Primary problem with producing movie/TV shows is money. It costs A LOT of money. Even shows you think can be done with a lower budget, it can't... currently. Reasons for high costs are numerous and I can expand on them (and will if someone asks me), but lets take that as an axiom for this post.<p>It costs a lot of money, which means people who invest in content production need to offload a lot of money and wish to guard their investment as much as possible, since that's what it is - an investment in a project. Financing cycles and budgeting is as lean as possible in showbusiness, and a lot of money is involved both upfront for production and later when gathering yield.<p>IF someone can disrupt financing side and securing measurable projected yield in this business - only then we will have a disruption. That is where one should look at for disruption, everything else is futile, because it's as lean as possible.
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cstrossover 13 years ago
Hollywood and the MPAA isn't about making movies.<p>Rather, it's about maintaining a distribution chokehold on mass produced popular entertainment. This in turn means controlling what goes into the pipeline, and how the output from the pipeline is delivered to the consumers, and how the MPPE is marketed -- for example, the whole star system, Oscars night hype, and so on.<p>What is needed is a better distribution channel, and that's why they keep trying to kill anything that looks like it might become one. The solution is thus going to start with (a) invent something, and (b) lawyer up, a <i>long</i> way prior to public launch.
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sriramkover 13 years ago
Movies aren't the latest evolution in entertainment, they're the latest evolution in <i>storytelling</i>, something which is as old as humanity itself. Hollwyood is the descendant of ancient man telling stories of adventure around a fire at night.<p>So the more accurate question - what is a better way to tell stories?
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sjtgrahamover 13 years ago
The soccer analogy is interesting because when a player is fouled in the penalty area, the player is strongly incentivised to take a dive. A foul on a player with a clear goalscoring opportunity in the penalty area is a mandatory red card for the fouling player, and a penalty kick for the attacking team. This gives the attacking team a clear advantage by having one more player than the opposition, for the remainder of the game as well a penalty kick. Statistically, it is very probable that a professional football player will score from a penalty also.
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jdietrichover 13 years ago
The leading British film critic Mark Kermode hypothesises that Michael Bay style blockbusters are hits solely because they were expensive to make.<p>He likens these films to a PT Barnum sideshow - people aren't expecting anything of artistic merit, but are instead driven by curiosity as to what the producers spent $140m on. Media attention is inevitable, in the same way that a restaurant announcing a $1000 hamburger is easy fodder for a slow news day.<p>The logic is persuasive in light of the fact that critics and moviegoers alike don't enjoy these films much, nor expect to enjoy them. There's a culture of "movie events", a self-fulfilling prophecy of huge budgets and massive opening weekends.<p>If the theory is valid, I have no idea how you'd beat Hollywood; I'm fairly certain that the answer won't involve making anything with cultural or artistic worth.
armandososaover 13 years ago
I hope whatever kills hollywood also kills distribution by regions. In the third world we are people too.
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InclinedPlaneover 13 years ago
I find it utterly fascinating how under the radar a lot of the new media has been.<p>Only recently have some people begun to appreciate that Netflix has as many subscribers as many large cable companies, though I think it's still flirting with the popular consciousness so far. Meanwhile, there are many people making their living off of original content posted to youtube or elsewhere, and in some cases they are making 6 figure incomes.<p>The Guild, Penny-Arcade TV, vlogbrothers, Dr Horrible, etc, this is an incredibly rapidly growing phenomenon. Yet good luck finding a story about it in the traditional media, it might as well not exist.<p>Meanwhile, online comics are quickly upstaging print comics. There will come a day in the next few years when the aggregate revenue from web comics exceeds that from the traditional comic studios (DC, Marvel, etc.)<p>I wonder at what point these phenomena will start to penetrate the mainstream, when the average guy on the street will start to "get it".
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socraticover 13 years ago
I agree that Hollywood is evil, however, is the argument that it has peaked really accurate? ("Hollywood is dying.")<p>This RFS doesn't really give any statistics (perhaps because it will be up for longer than those statistics will be current). That said, based on a few minutes of Google searching, the average American apparently watches 150 hours of TV per month, and every few years there is a new "biggest grossing film of all time." That doesn't necessarily constitute growth, but it hardly seems like the type of upheaval occurring in the recording industry.<p>Is this analysis incorrect?
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bsenftnerover 13 years ago
If course, this RFS appears on a day when I have my working demonstration site down, (because I'm laying in new optimizations). I have been working to seriously disrupt "Hollywood" and the media advertising industry for several years now. There are a few places where interested parties can see brief descriptions, I'll list them in a bit. What I'm building is globally patented by me as well. I've developed an automated visual effects pipeline and globally scalable distribution infrastructure for automated actor and object replacement in filmed media - creating a new Personalized Advertising platform where anybody can appear in prepared media with anybody else doing anything. This is photo realistic visual effects, of the same caliber as ILM enhanced feature films - that's the world I come from (Rhythm &#38; Hues Studios, actually.) Interested parties can read bits at these locations:<p>www.about.me/Blakes &#60;- my mission is described there<p>www.BlakeSenftner.com<p>www.Flixor.com &#60;- 3 year old demo video there<p>This is offline at the moment, but as soon as this is ready I plan a HN announcement:<p>www.cg-general-store.com<p>I'm bootstrapping this, after spinning my wheels courting VC investors for too long. Interested parties that want to collaborate can contact me. This is real.
akgover 13 years ago
Has anyone tried out Amazon Studios: <a href="http://studios.amazon.com/" rel="nofollow">http://studios.amazon.com/</a>? That seems to be a big step in this direction. Amazon.com has already created a big threat in the publishing industry with e-books and self-publishing. I think hollywood is next with the democratization of content and technological tools.<p>It used to be that to create "Hollywood grade" movies would require tons of expensive equipment and capital. I don't see that to be the case anymore. There is powerful software (some even free, e.g., Blender) and hardware (<a href="http://www.red.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.red.com/</a>) to create high-quality productions at a fraction of the budget.<p>Having worked at a film studio for a few years, I can say that they are definitely struggling to compete. Mostly because they are slow to adapt to the changing landscape. Slow because they either don't want to change or are too arrogant and feel they don't need to make an effort to change.
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wjover 13 years ago
Independent film companies are to L.A. what startups are to Silicon Valley. An independent film company is essentially a startup with all of the uncertainty, hard work, late nights, bootstrapping, cash crunches, etc. The odds are stacked against them. (I closed my film company down as of the end of the year.)<p>So when I hear "Kill Hollywood" I don't think you really mean what you say. The independent film companies are going to be the ones that will produce the content for all the new digital distribution channels that have sprung up in the past ten years.<p>A lot of hard working people are employed by the industry and they understand that the game is changing. They realize things are going to be different for them in the new economic models. (One other thing most people don't know is almost 99% of "Hollywood" are contract workers who work for three to nine months and then have no guarantee of another job.)<p>Silicon Valley isn't defined by Oracle and Intel. Don't define Hollywood by the actions of a few large companies. There already are a bunch of opportunities for the entertainment industry and the Valley to work together and we're still in the early stages of collaboration.
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diegoover 13 years ago
This strikes me as a bit naïve. Hollywood can be seen as two different things:<p>1) An ecosystem of artists creating music, movies and TV shows.<p>2) A group of companies distributing and commercializing the output of the ecosystem.<p>It's hard to say where one ends and the other one begins. YC, you may want to kill #2 but not #1.<p>Or do you expect to fund "startups" that create TV shows, movies, or music? If so, start looking for the younger Louis CKs of the world.
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twainerover 13 years ago
I'm sorry but this kind of thread from the initial post on down to the echo chamber of opinions smacks more of Jonestown than Silicon Valley. I personally find it disturbing. The vast majority of this country enjoys some part of what comes out of Hollywood - whether they pay for it or not. I'd hazard a guess that the vast majority of HNers do as well. Is there some reason suddenly why a tyranny of the minority should be such a beautiful concept?<p>It's as senseless as requesting people should 'kill creativity' or 'kill talent' - not because Hollywood is their equal but because lots of talented and creative people work there. There is scant support around here for creative people having any right to their work as it is - so I am beyond curious as to the foundations of business models that find 'better ways to entertain people'.<p>People entertain people; with how badly the content industry is being savaged and prejudged - this thread as a glowing example - in 20 years a pub might be the best business model to capture that 'unique value proposition'.
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malandrewover 13 years ago
This is most awesome, however this RFS as it stands now only addresses the demand side of the equation. It should also address the talent side of the equation. People need to create startups that allow talent to reach their audience better, cheaper and faster.<p>Louis C.K. had to do a lot of work to perform his experiment. Why is there no startup equivalent of "Comedy Central" + "HBO Comedy Hour"? If I were a comedian, how do I go from performing standup in a club, to selling that comedy to as many people as possible with as little effort on my part. Were I a comedian, I want to build an audience and make a living telling jokes.<p>This goes for all other forms of talent. Actors, writers, costume designers, etc.<p>Hollywood's talent power is in its Rolodex. How do you take that power out of their hand and eliminate the power brokers?<p>What are some talented actors that are already embracing the internet and possibly willing "invest" in startups using their talent? Ashton Kutcher, maybe? How about Will Ferrell?<p>Also, how do we allow people to easily transition from passive to active and back again? Currently there isn't an easy way to go from the Internet to my TV and back again. How can I go from a link in my Facebook or Twitter feed to sitting on my couch watching a movie in one click? How do I share from my TV to my friends? How do I organize hanging out together with my friends at my house or apartment to watch a TV show or game? As great as products like Google Hangouts are, nothing beats the social experience of enjoy a piece of media together.
kenamaritover 13 years ago
I'm glad there are other film/tv people on the board sharing their perspective. Before I started writing code for a living, I used to work in post production in NYC on reality tv shows and also in the past on films, docs, and also at more artistic-minded places like Sundance (which is a great place but very much tied to Hollywood, btw, if it wasn't already obvious). A lot of my friends (and myself) are hustling to get their films made here in the city so I must agree that the amount of money required to get a film made is a lot less than it once was.<p>The real difficulty, and what needs to change, in my opinion, is creating an avenue for independent producers to show their content and STILL have it be considered worth watching. In a way YouTube and Vimeo lets you put your work online which immediately makes it available to a billion people. The problem, though, is that having your work shown on youtube means nothing. Having your work screened on TV means something. Being screen in a theatre means something. Getting into Cannes means something. Having Ebert review your film means something. You can argue that Eberts opinion doesn't mean much, but the fact that he is reviewing your work is meaningful in and of itself.<p>Hollywood has this huge system to help itself legitimize the work that comes out of it, regardless of the actual quality. There's no real system that helps individuals who want to cut out the middle man effectively convince strangers to watch their content (afaik). There has been an insane amount of growth in the number of film festivals that exist in the last 5 years, but all that does is lessen the value of screening your film in a festival. (Wanna see? Just check out withoutabox.com). Also it's just growth that in my opinion tries to emulate and validate the current system.<p>So what I think is needed is something like Netflix, or a bunch Netflix-type sites, that serve curated and independently produced shows and films. Each site would serve a specific audience, and each site must be careful in what it chooses to show. It must legitimize itself to "normals" as a valid mode of entertainment, and also to artists and filmmakers as a valid mode of distribution. This, I believe, would allow for more diversity and more democracy in content creation, and is a viable way to legitimize quality content that would otherwise get lost in a sea of Internet junk.<p>Edit: grammar and some messed up sentences that didn't make sense :)
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redthrowawayover 13 years ago
In 1920 a sane person, when asked to speculate on the future of entertainment, would have had a pretty easy time of it:<p>"The radio forms the backbone of social discourse. Around this hallowed box, millions of families converge nightly to get their daily dose of news and entertainment. Millions of people are employed by the radio industry, and millions more depend upon it. Whatever changes the winds of time may blow our way, you can be assured of this: The radio will remain the primary medium through which the public gets its information and entertainment."<p>Scarcely 20 years later, it would have been exceedingly difficult to find someone to defend this argument. Just as the carriage makers gave way to the automobile, just as film gave way to digital, just as news gave way to the web: so too, will Hollywood give way to that which surpasses it.
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ryanjmoover 13 years ago
Ha, the timing of this is pretty funny. I have had a start-up in LA for the last year, in the entertainment industry. I spend time in the professional YouTube community (like freddiew, annoyingorange) and spend a lot of my free time meeting people and learning about Hollywood. I especially find the people who are in both industries really interesting.<p>It is very interesting for me, because there are few programmers in the Hollywood and YouTube communities, so there are a lot of interesting opportunities available.<p>I literally just today turned my head towards building the most entertaining thing I possibly can. My thought on it is a site that is super branded for entertainment like break.com or collegehumor.com or smosh.com. And combine that with a big YouTube channel, just like those websites do.<p>But at the same time, it is necessary to see where the eyeballs are currently heading. I think reddit is a wonderful example of a modern entertainment site which can be seen in its huge growth. I would be nice to combine the usability of a site like reddit with the targeted branding of a site like collegehumor.<p>The super interesting thing to me is that a project like this is much more of a lifestyle business than a venture business. BUT THAT is currently a huge difference between Hollywood and Silicon Valley. I see LA as the land of the cash businesses and Silicon Valley as the land of the VC businesses. All of my professional YouTube friends are making straight cash and building large audiences, but will never have a public exit or a huge windfall.<p>It seems to me Hollywood's culture about cash business verse Silicon Valley's culture, is an advantage for Hollywood in creating entertainment properties. Entertainment properties require a careful and focused branding for a focused demographic and audience, you can make millions off something like this, but it is hard to IPO.
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rdlover 13 years ago
Sometime over the past year I went from thinking YouTube content was insignificant compared to Hollywood, to the point where I'd happily give up all broadcast/cable/DVD/Netflix content for YouTube type user generated content. I suspect this will be more widespread in a year or two more.
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MrScruffover 13 years ago
Disclaimer: I work in film.<p>This discussion is very strange. Hollywood films are extremely expensive and difficult to make, do you think the studios would spend all that money and effort if they could get the same return of investment knocking out budget films shot in someone's living room with a DSLR? I'm quite sure film won't remain at the top of tree for mass market entertainment forever, but it's going to be replaced by ever more immersive games, not tech startups. And those are pretty expensive to make as well.
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ypcxover 13 years ago
Make a Github for movies.<p>If I don't like a part of your movie, I can fork it and make it better. People collaborate, and the system tracks their share in the project, and when the movie makes it to the cinema, TV, Netflix, etc., they are remunerated accordingly.<p>Initially, a resistance is to be expected in the established distribution channels, therefore a new distribution channel is to be built. Perhaps a P2P on pay-if-you-like basis. Do you like your new Firefly series? Do you want it to continue, to thrive? Then contribute as much as you see fit. Contribute financially. Or submit screenplay ideas to the project. Make the 3D CGI scenes better, add more details, make animations more fluid. Offer acting - maybe you will be selected by the audience in a democratic process.<p>This must be funded, filming equipment and studio time is expensive, rendering time in the cloud is also not entirely free. But once the equipment is purchased and studios built or contracted, the projects can share them.<p>Go get 'em.
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bambaxover 13 years ago
What about a Youtube Recommendation Engine That Works?<p>I've been on Netflix for about 6 months now, and I'm flabbergasted at the quality of their recommendation engine (which maybe owes much to their Netflix Challenge -- I don't know how efficient it was before).<p>For every show listed, they predict how much I will like it, and their prediction is almost always right.<p>On the other hand, Amazon is almost always wrong, and so is Youtube; my guess is Amazon bases its recommendations on what I buy instead of what I like, and Youtube does the same (what I watch instead of what I actually like).<p>A recommendation engine for Youtube (or all video sites) that would actually work would have a lot of value for users.<p>There's a chicken-and-egg problem: how do you get enough ratings to be able to make recommendations; this can be addressed by starting in a small niche of specific content: start with a small community of people passionate about a subject.<p>My two cents.
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nirvdrumover 13 years ago
This RFS makes a lot of assumptions, some through analogies, that are all predicated on some level of rational thought. And ultimately, I think that's where this is flawed. Hollywood may be dying -- I don't really know. But the fact they're going after pirates or filesharers or whatever could just be a principled stand for them. I've certainly wasted time and money trying to rectify things that are wrong in my eyes, even if it's not exactly rational or in the best interests of the bottom line. But, to me, it's a matter of principle. And I think for some of these distribution folks, they very much believe it's a principled stand for them as well <i>shrug</i>
dageshiover 13 years ago
If you define killing hollywood by not actually consuming any of its products either legally or illegally then video game playthoughs are doing it for me.<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/SSoHPKC/videos" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/user/SSoHPKC/videos</a><p>He uploads between 6-10 ten to fifteen minute video's per day on most major releases. Plus multiplayer games like killing floor, pay day the heist, minecraft e.t.c.<p>A weird mix between talk radio, motion picture and reality tv. And genuinely I'm hooked, if I want to wind down at the end of the day watching half an hour of skyrim walkthrough followed by some minecraft custom maps is perfect.<p>Now here's the interesting part, this guy and a bunch of his friends who call themselves The Creatures (long obscure story) are going to go live in a house somewhere so they can all record video game playthoughs together.<p>That's maybe 10+ people producing collectively 3-5 hours of unique content per day who're getting between 25-100k unique views per video.<p>And that's before they've put themselves in a single physical location. I don't know what they'll end up producing once they are all together in one place, but I'll be watching and a lot of other people will as well.
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brianstormsover 13 years ago
YC: take a look at Nettle. Backed by Google Ventures, 500 Startups, Advancit Capital, etc. Our product is MovieGoer (<a href="http://moviegoer.com" rel="nofollow">http://moviegoer.com</a>).<p>"Kill Hollywood" is a kneejerk, negative way to go about it. I prefer a more positive approach that makes for a better world. In our case, it's all about EMPOWERING MOVIEGOERS. If you empower moviegoers, who are after all the heart of the $31B movie ecosystem worldwide, then you wind up improving the entire ecosystem -- movie theatre chains and studios do whatever moviegoers want. So give moviegoers more power, more choice, the ability to set the pace, direction, and the industry will be happy to comply.<p>Historically moviegoers have historically never had much if any power. As a result, we have the theatres we have, and the studios put out the content they think movieogers want. A lot of it is, shall we say, not great.<p>If anyone at YC wants to talk to me (and if they're serious about this issue, why aren't they!?), ping me: brian@nettle.com. I will be in the Bay Area all next week. Happy to meet with folks and talk about this more.
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dboatover 13 years ago
I'm a pretty massive gamer, and one thing I think bears mention is that game companies show similar signs of customer-contempt as the Hollywood middlemen. This leads me to think that the problem is not the people who are creative, the problem is the middlemen who have found exceptional margins and do not want to let them go.<p>For signs of game publisher contempt, see safedisc, securom and similar cases in which game performance, reliability and convenience (in other words, the user experience) have been compromised in order to ineffectually impede piracy.<p>Rather than kill Hollywood, producers of things many do so enjoy, I think startups need to focus on finding ways to allow the creative network of the industry to thrive by reaching people without the need for the collective organizations and legacy businesses who are willing to attack the end-users.<p>Issues or morality and legality aside, suing your users, interfering with their freedom by legal meddling and otherwise tarnishing their experience is a poor choice for purely pragmatic reasons.<p>Killing, ever a tempting solution, is not the best answer here.
theojover 13 years ago
Hollywood, the recording companies, RIAA / MPAA are all intermediaries between the artists who need the funding to create video and music content and the consumers who crave that content.<p>What we needed is a YCombinator for artists. Invest in each artist like he/she was a startup, then take losses on the flops, win big on the successes. Everything is in place for significant disruption: the artists are upset about low royalties and the consumers are upset about draconian copyright enforcement -- should be easy to offer more favorable terms to both parties.
iamdannover 13 years ago
Free idea: Create an app that provides a TiVo-like experience to all web video. You could "record" channels from YouTube the same way you'd queue TED, or even Hulu+, Netflix, et all.<p>Your app would automatically pull new streaming episodes for you to watch and manage the same way people use DVRs on televisions.<p>If internet TV, and "television app" really are the next thing...if you build an amazing version of this now, you'll be set.<p>Not only that, but you'd encourage more people to produce content, since viewing it and following new episodes would all happen in one place.
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slaterover 13 years ago
Why does H'Wood have to be killed? All they have to do is change their business models a bit.<p>I've been wondering if an apps-like model would work for TV shows and movies. EG, if you like The Daily Show, you have a Daily Show app, instead of having to subscribe to a whole slew of channels you'll never watch. Or for sports: Like Formula 1? Get the F1 app. Need some news? Daily News app, done. After you've got all your apps, you can mix &#38; match, set whether you want to be interrupted (watching the daily show and some F1 qualifying is starting, switch to that app y/n?), heck, even set the number of ads and length of ads (longer ads means less ads, and vice-versa).<p>Similar for movies. There, you could split up the apps either by genre, franchise, favorite star. Like Leo DiCaprio movies? D/L the Leo app. Like the Batman franchise? Get the app, and have everything from the 60s TV show (yes, I know, mixing TV and movies, here) to The Dark Knight.
llambdaover 13 years ago
Why was my submission killed? --&#62; <a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3491539" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3491539</a><p>Edit: incidentally, because this submission was made after my submission, when I saw it I flagged it thinking it was a dupe. Now it seems I've lost the ability to flag entirely. :(
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re_formatover 13 years ago
A while ago I found myself accidentally reading about the origins of Hollywood on the web. There is a surprising amount of writing posted about it. I'm wondering if others are aware where Hollywood "came from". Specifically, who brought it to the US. And why does it have the rules it does, e.g., about what are good or bad characters and themes, about carefully crafted endings, etc.<p>This might provide some insight about Hollywood is going in the future. As the generations pass from one to another.<p>I'll let the curious reader chase up the history on their own. But what I gathered is Hollywood was founded by outcasts, refugees, young men who came from difficult circumstances and were faced with growing up without role models.<p>Are there parallels to today's young hacker crowd?
sanjiallblueover 13 years ago
It's an interesting proposition to kill Hollywood, but I don't exactly think it's going to be killed so easily, or that it's anywhere remotely resembling close to being "dead". Just examining the profit margins from this year alone paints a picture of a vibrant and healthy industry and overall employment in the industry is actually doing quite well considering the state of the economy. Although, full disclosure, I do work in production as a media producer (reality TV, variety TV, single-camera, digital magazines, games, social media, features, etc.). I was also very fortunate to be mentored by one of the former ranking executives of MGM.<p>That mentor taught me a great deal, but one of the most fascinating things I learned was that these executives do not understand how the internet works, at all. Their days are scheduled down to the letter so they simply don't have time to figure this kind of shit out. So they pay their lawyers to figure it out for them and that's the source of the cancer of misinformation in Hollywood studios, Copyright/IP lawyers. Their jobs have evolved to depend solely on finding 'infringement' wherever they can and then making it seem as terrifying as possible to the execs that employ them. These are the people responsible for outright lies such as "100 billion in lost revenue".<p>This misinformation eventually became the dogma of the entertainment industry. I can't tell you how many people I've worked with in the industry, wildly intelligent people, that honestly believe piracy is the single greatest threat to the entertainment industry. What's worse is that they conflate basic concepts like file-sharing with the selling of boot-leg DVDs in some back-alley market in Calcutta. The disconnect with fact and reality is just truly astounding.<p>That's why the first line of defense should be to open a dialogue with Hollywood. Before we vote any Congresspeople out and before declaring "War on Hollywood" there needs to be an open campaign to combat the lies that are pervasive in Hollywood itself. Because honestly, after all we've been through in the last 10 years, do we really need more wars? Is that the lesson we're going to take away from Iraq and Afghanistan?<p>The people who work in Hollywood are fellow humans and fellow Americans. They aren't malicious invaders, they're people who are just irrationally scared for the future of the industry they love. If you declare "Let's Kill Hollywood", you immediately become part of the "Them" to Hollywood's "Us". You fire the first shot of a War that you never had to fight in the first place and one that will only hasten the urgency with which even more draconian legislation would be pursued. All of which could be easily avoided.<p>Creating effective channels for communication between the informed members of the tech industry and Hollywood should be the first priority of any initiative that was realistically and maturely seeking change to the kind of legislative agendas being advocated by groups like the MPAA (the RIAA is a different story, that's a case of rats on a sinking ship trying to prevent anyone else from getting on the ship so that they can make money off of the glass-botton tours.)<p>That being said, I'm not against (in any way) the idea of funding start-ups to explore exciting new maxims of entertainment or helping to shrink the cost of production for film/television/gaming. That's brilliant and deserves praise for being supported. However, it's the call the War I find so very unsettling.<p>I think I've made those points clear enough so I'll follow-up this post with some ideas to kick around that would help bring production costs down for smaller-scale film/television production along with some notes concerning certain realities surrounding the different aspects.<p>EDIT: Grammar
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runevaultover 13 years ago
At least to me, the most important part of trying to make a current media killer is remembering that storytelling is still a fundamental part of society, and not all forms of entertainment (including a subset of video games) do not scratch that itch. To truly replace Hollywood I think you need to come up with new ways of filling that need.<p>Since books obviously don't quite do it (need for visual/audio component for some people, perhaps?) something else will need to do it.<p>Perhaps focus on interactivity with real story behind it in games and taking that to the next level? Lots of potential, but have to keep in mind what niche they're filling.
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DocSavageover 13 years ago
"Some of the best ideas may initially look like they're serving the movie and TV industries."<p>Somehow, I think it'll be difficult for your startups to partner with or serve movie and TV industries if they've been funded under a "Kill Hollywood" RFS :-)<p>Although leadership in Hollywood may be cruel and tech-stupid from our standpoint, they have a tremendous amount of talent at their disposal. Seems like a production system for what comes out of Amazon Studios could threaten their system if it was stocked with Hollywood-level talent -- actors, editors, cinematographers, etc -- and coupled with a smarter distribution system.
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MatthewBover 13 years ago
PG - When you say kill Hollywood, who are you talking about exactly? I assume you mean the middlemen of Hollywood - people who add zero value to the entertainment industry. If so, I completely agree.<p>Startups need to offer content creators a better/cheaper/easier way to distribute their content. Distribution is where startups can really succeed. When I say distribution, what I mean is the method by which people consume content. The problem is the middlemen control the true content creators.<p>The biggest problem is quality. Youtube is a dead simple way to distribute content but the problem is you'll never see anything on Youtube that rivals the quality of something on NBC, HBO, CBS etc. I believe Netflix has the right idea by funding their own high-quality content to distribute on their own "network." However, Netflix may just end up becoming another NBC, HBO, Warner Bros. over time.<p>As I mentioned before, the best was to achieve the goal of killing the middleman is by providing high-quality content creators a way to get funding and distribute their work to large audiences without giving up the rights to their work. Additionally, there are plenty of ways to increase margin by using technology to get viewers more involved with the content. We've only just begun to scratch the surface of interactive entertainment.<p>I've been thinking about this stuff for a while and it's a difficult, complex issue. I'd love to chat with anyone who has thoughts about this, feel free to email me or respond here (email in profile).
aestetix_over 13 years ago
I think pg is actually completely 100% on the money here. Kudos to him and YC being bold enough to come out and say it so bluntly.<p>Here's why I agree with him: I see a lot of comments from people suggesting that Hollywood works on a cycle, where things move along, start to stagnate, and then a dark horse director comes along and creates magic. Altman, Lucas, etc all fit this bill, and they've produced amazing hits. Using money from Hollywood.<p>So, if this cycle is indeed perpetual, and Hollywood simply has to wait for the next big thing, then why don't they? Instead, we are seeing prosecutions on a massive scale, and grossly out of touch legislation proposed like SOPA and PIPA.<p>If Hollywood were so confident, and had so much money, why should they care about these infringers? Is it that copyright infringement makes Hollywood lose that much money, or is it that the economic model has changed dramatically, the execs are scared shitless, and are trying dearly to hold on to their once-empire?<p>I don't think anyone can challenge the assertion that the field has changed dramatically. I also don't think anyone, including the Hollywood execs, has a clue where it's going now. Laws like SOPA seem to be about preventing this change from happening, to keep the power where it was. It sounds like YC's approach is to encourage people to be creative and try to come up with a viable suggestion as to where things are going.
zupatolover 13 years ago
This proposal is not just an attack against Hollywood, it aims to replace cinema with something else. It's about actively working to destroy an art form. It sounds just as over the top as shutting down the internet to curb piracy.<p>If you really want to devote your life to destroying something, please don't just jump on the latest annoying thing. Make a list of the most evil things you can do something about, and see if Hollywood's political influence really makes it to the top.
Stevenup7002over 13 years ago
If you can get the artists on your side, you can kill hollywood.
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wavetossedover 13 years ago
Here is a free idea that I tried to get implemented in another country while working for a telecom company that was branching into TV services over their DSL connections.<p>Simply build a site like YouTube with lots of content to view. But unlike YouTube, this site would be pay per view and 100% of the content would be provided by teams of content creators. No backroom licencing deals.<p>The end user pays a fixed monthly fee for what they watch. After you watch a show, you must rate it before you get to watch another. That means 100% of viewings are rated. At the end of the month all the shows are ranked according to the ratings, and the portion of the monthly fee that goes to content creators, would be divided according to the rankings.<p>OK, maybe this is more like Netflix than YouTube. The UI is not as important as the system of acquiring and paying for content which is directly tied to viewer rankings. You would need to have a multiple factor ranking system so that cat videos with shot with a shaky video camera can rank high in entertainment value but low in quality and thus earn less. Also a longer show should earn a bigger share than a 2-minute short.<p>There are other types of things that would also work for this YC request, but I hope to see this as one of the ones that YC funds.
RichardBennettover 13 years ago
Reading the post and the comments, I really miss Steve Jobs.<p>Look, guys, Hollywood is not your enemy, you're not going to kill it, and it doesn't need killing. Hollywood's use of technical and business model innovation has advanced faster than most other industries over the past five to ten years.<p>Similarly, Congress and the carriers aren't your enemies and they're not going away either, although you certainly didn't win any friends in Washington with the tactics you used to stop SOPA and Protect IP for the time being.<p>Perspective is important here: Congress has been working on copyright and on-line piracy since the Napster days, and this one just one small episode in a struggle to rationalize creator's rights with new technologies of distribution. This fight emphasized the universal human right to speech, but there's also an article (27b) in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights respecting copyright. So it's not a simple black-and-white, good guys and bad guys issue.<p>Congress also has a long memory, and you can't steer the ship of state blacking out Reddit or cloaking Wikipedia (in a way cleverly designed to preserve page rank) every time there's a debate on the Hill that makes you uncomfortable. And be aware that Congress deals with tech industry issues several times a year, every year, no matter what.<p>Tech (I won't say Silicon Valley because the San Francisco Web 2.0 social media sharing cabal is on a completely different tack than the Valley in its heyday) needs to refine its marketing skills, develop better relations with Hollywood, Congress, and infrastructure providers, and to think about what it does well and what it's never going to do well.<p>Gaming and information processing are more up your alley than narrative, character development, and story arc. Get real.<p>Lots of people around the world have spent a lot of mind time on developing better forms of interactive entertainment, infotainment, augmented reality, education, and more. Even people in Washington who work in the policy space can fill you in on the details. See the latest Congressional Internet Caucus State of the Net conference that took place when you were staring at blank screens this week: <a href="http://youtu.be/4VF-EIXQCzE" rel="nofollow">http://youtu.be/4VF-EIXQCzE</a><p>But it's a good start, get beyond the anger and think about where you want to be in five years.
tanseyover 13 years ago
&#62; Some of the best ideas may initially look like they're serving the movie and TV industries.<p>So that's interesting. My startup somewhat falls into that category. Hollywood is so entrenched that the only way to change it may be to work around it until you're big enough to take it on.<p>As far "dying"-- I'm not so sure. Celebrity, status, fashion, and passive entertainment do not follow the same set of rules as search engines, cloud storage apps, or apartment subletting sites. There is no way to say objectively one form is better than the other from the consumer side of it. Some people still insist on listening to records, but hardly anyone would argue that they search on Alta Vista because they think the results "feel" more authentic than Google.<p>Also, Hollywood has a long history of doing this. If they are dying now because they're fighting this, then were they also dying when the VCR was introduced? Or the cassette tape? Isn't it possible that they simply use the legal system to slow down innovation until they can catch up?
seagreenover 13 years ago
As someone who loves tricks and tactics it pains me to suggest this, but one sure way to replace Hollywood would be a frontal assault. Get a ton of money and make your own movies. You would definitely distribute them better than Hollywood, you might be able to make them better too. Do this for long enough and eventually you'll reach a tipping point.
habermanover 13 years ago
&#62; SOPA brought it to our attention that Hollywood is dying. They must be dying if they're resorting to such tactics. If movies and TV were growing rapidly, that growth would take up all their attention.<p>I'm not sure this follows. I'm guessing that Hollywood sees piracy and filesharing as vast amounts of unrealized profit for the work they're already doing -- "free money" essentially.<p>I think it's personal too; look how bent out of shape Scott Rudin got just because David Denby published a review for "The Girl with the Dragon Tattoo" a week ahead of a previously-agreed-upon embargo: <a href="http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/dec/05/girl-dragon-tattoo-early-review" rel="nofollow">http://www.guardian.co.uk/film/2011/dec/05/girl-dragon-tatto...</a><p>Hollywood seems to like having control over when and how their material is released, and on this level piracy offends them on a moral level.
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shapeshedover 13 years ago
I agree that Hollywood is in decline because is failing to change and innovate. Creativity has always been sold by record labels and movie studios and technically this looks an increasingly irrelevant role. Production, distribution and marketing of content can all be handled by the web, not monolithic entertainment companies.<p>The challenge is to create applications that remove that middle layer and keep things open for the creators of content. To date the pattern is repeating itself. App Stores and streaming services are take huge cuts from creators of content. Proprietary formats are prevalent everywhere, designed to protect marketplaces that exploit the creators of content.<p>Please prove me wrong but I'm currently watching a terrible show where Hollywood is morphing into VC-backed entrepreneurs and big Internet companies. They are no better.
frooover 13 years ago
This is something I'd been thinking about awhile ago (it's buried somewhere in my comments.)<p>Show production isn't necessarily out of the scope of whats possible as I've posted about the disconnect between cost of entertainment in the past on HN<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=552394" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=552394</a><p>I still believe digital animation is an environment where a small startup could produce content to pave the way for the online market. This was something I looked at some years ago - it turns out that I'm simply not talented enough as an animator to do anything like this.<p>However, I am reposting links to my previous thoughts in the hope that someone who is talented enough can potentially make it work. I'd love to see someone beat Hollywood at their own game.
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ivankiriginover 13 years ago
Did you just make it really hard for YC companies to get deals with movie &#38; music studios?
sambeauover 13 years ago
Here's my suggestion:<p><i>Trailer Pitch</i><p>This is a simple design for a site and business where filmakers can crowdsource investment. It uses a simple mechanism to sell tickets and shares in advance based on the popularity of premade movie trailers. It uses a mechanism based on ideas tried by <i>Pinboard, Kickstarter, YouTube, Vimeo, Betfair</i> and <i>Louis CK.</i><p>One: filmakers make compelling trailers for films they would like to be made (or potentially films they would like to see others make). They fund this part themselves although if the site is successful it might consider grants to improve on good ideas whose trailers lack finish.<p>Two: Professional looking trailers are placed on a website for the public to watch, enjoy, download and share.<p><i>(so far so normal)</i><p>Three: credits are sold to users of the site for the pupose of voting and investing in the films. 1 vote initially costs $1 but the price will rise as the film becomes more successful. Each person who votes for a film that is eventually made will get a ticket to 'see' the film. This is essentially a ticket to a high-quality download.<p>Four: Voting for a film becomes gradually more expensive. The final vote (and thus the final ticket sold) will be based on the budget of the film but will hopefully be in the <i>'Louis CK'</i> ballpark of $5. No more than $10.<p>Five: Other special tickets are sold alongside the standard: Boxed collectors' DVD, ticket to special shows + meet the cast, ticket to the premier, ticket to the after-party.<p>Six: Votes &#38; tickets are refunded if the film fails to make its investment or fails to be made.<p><i>This is where it gets interesting:</i><p>Seven: As well as tickets, shares are sold. These, start out cheap but will also rise in price as they are sold. Thus a keen smart eye might be able to make real money if they spot a winner early and invest. Investing always incurs a percentage fee. Shares are <i>real</i> shares in the <i>real</i> profit of the film and its merchandising. Shareholders get access to the film-making process and limited creative input during the development. Shareholders always get to go to the party. The filmmakers and Trailer Pitch will always get to keep some shares for themselves.<p>Eight: Shares are transferable and can be bought and sold in the in-built online market. The price of a share is wholy determined by the market and can continue to be traded even after a film is made. If shareholders agree to a dilation new shares can be issued and sold on the market. Transferring shares always incurs a fee which will be split between Trailer Pitch and the film: both should benefit from a runaway success!<p>Nine: If the film sells it's shares and advance tickets it goes into production: an executive producer is assigned and the filmakers are helped to make the film. In the case of totally inexperienced teams substantial help may be provided.<p>Ten: If the film fails to reach target all money (and $1 credits are returned).<p>Eleven: Once the film is made it is launched online with fanfare and parties. Each film launch gives a projector&#38;hifi system away to a lucky voter so they can watch it in style. For some films a theatrical release might be considered. The eventaul plan would be to do both.<p>Twelve: Profit is handed out to all and continues to be paid out to whoever holds the shares at any time. Some films will have long tails especially those with merchandising.<p>Obviously this is a quick sketch of my idea, there would have to be a lot more thought put into the legal and financial details (as well as the enormity of a site with so many levels) but with the right backing it certainly could work.<p><i>Who's in?</i>
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batrulerover 13 years ago
I'm a filmmaker and killing Hollywood is the best thing you can do. It is burning to the ground and Nero plays the White House. But they cannot stop it since WE are remaking it. I worked pretty much my whole live in the entertainment industry, writing directing, plays, tours you name it I have done it, to a very high level. In 2007 I released a film and within a day it was on torrents and I was so MAD. Mad at everyone IRL but the internet. Why because before I'd released the film I had build the biggest game online at the time to promo the movie <a href="http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/334475" rel="nofollow">http://www.newgrounds.com/portal/view/334475</a>. It was kinda popular. I'd built a site to support the film which got massive and all I wanted to do but put the film online because I knew it was the biggest way to promote it, it was already happening. But the investors and the sales company would NOT allow the film to go online for free, they just didn't get how big it could have been. They spurned the millions of viewer and plays we were getting daily to delay the release by going through the bullshit analogue route taking months to get it onto Amazon. It is something that taught me a lot. NOW I am building two start ups to rip a fucking huge hole in Hollywood. one is going to be a live performance/entertainment site open to anyone anywhere to enjoy live global talent to rise to the top and the other will be a live investment site. If you code if you're good and if you want to work with me hit me up mrsimoncathcart@googlemail.com I will respond to you message.
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radagaisusover 13 years ago
&#62;&#62; There will be several answers, [...], through new media (e.g. games) that look a lot like shows but are more interactive<p>Some genres will not be replaced soon by games. The archtypes of How I Met your Mother are the same as in Friends, and they serve to appease our loneliness and self worth. The 'entertainment' TV Shows and Movies are our fantasies coming real in front of our eyes. While action movies are clearly replaced, fantasies on the Social level are a tougher problem we are a long way from solving.
jasonabelliover 13 years ago
EdTV. But interactive also with multiple Ed’s (channels). Free to watch. With adds on the parameter or occasionally a commercial during slow moments. How would it be interactive? There can be options for what your Ed might due. People could “donate” a micro-purchase towards making that option happen. Options, get a new car, go on a trip, get jewelry. Friends could chat while watching a particular Ed and get momentum going towards certain scenarios via social networking.<p>Sorry this is choppy just in a rush.
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Xlytheover 13 years ago
Why not a startup that focuses on user-generated funding that releases movies into the public domain? In the age of digital media, everything is a fixed cost. Once the initial investment is paid for, distribution is free. Give producers, indie or otherwise, a platform to ask for money and promote their shows. On the user's side, offer options like direct donations and subscriptions. Give them the choice to say "I'll pay 30$ a month. Recommend me shows and split my subscription among them"
boyzoover 13 years ago
I am co-founder of Nuflick.com, we've been working since June in a model that challenges the traditional distribution of entertainment.<p>We have a model where users can browse a catalog of films to stream on demand by unlocking them through social interactions like inviting a facebook friend and we encourage to support creators. Like a reversed kickstarter where contributions give access to rewards related to the movies.<p>The day of the blackout we published a blogpost on our take on SOPA and new models of distribution: <a href="http://blog.nuflick.com/?p=129" rel="nofollow">http://blog.nuflick.com/?p=129</a><p>Quote &#60;Partially and oblique legislation will never be the right answer to protect intellectual property from piracy and prevent copyright infringement. Large copyright holders haven’t been working creatively around regulations, technical difficulties or thought of different approaches to offer consumers what they want and are willing to pay for.<p>The right answer is coming from bold people that dare to challenge the status-quo creating flexible models that allow distribution, availability and safety to consumers and creators. In the end it all comes down to “supply and demand”; the future requires copyright holders to understand that supply of entertainment will never cease and the success will be measured in relation to their understanding of what the consumers demand.&#62;<p>On the end, we believe that hollywood, as a whole, have been damaging consumers in order to protect a business that would be nothing without them and their money.
Kavanover 13 years ago
I quite like Hollywood. Some of the best entertainment has and will come from their studios. It is the old guard that don't get that Piracy has had very little impact on their industry and would be a waste of tax payers money to legislate against it: (<a href="http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/21/does-online-piracy-hurt-the-economy-a-look-at-the-numbers/" rel="nofollow">http://www.forbes.com/sites/erikkain/2012/01/21/does-online-...</a>, <a href="http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/internet-regulation-and-the-economics-of-piracy.ars" rel="nofollow">http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/news/2012/01/internet-reg...</a>)<p>I don't think we need to do too much here as I think the suits will get rid of themselves by repeatedly showing how inept they are by not understanding the digital world. But if you do want to put pressure on the old boys I would suggest:<p>1. Don't buy Popcorn and Cola at the cinema. The ridiculous margins on these goods are the 'cream' that makes the movie houses their money. Literally your popcorn and coke'sie cash is what lines the studio's pockets and allows Brangelina to live lavishly. Hollywood == Popcorn + Coke sales<p>2. Support awesome UGC like: <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#38;v=7ezeYJUz-84" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&#38;v=7...</a>
bytenotesover 13 years ago
The RIAA maybe.<p>Artists need initial help to rid of the startup fears which sends them in the arms of the enslaving RIAA.<p>Create an open pool of "service providers" that abide by an open contractual agreement securing musical talent with supporting talent.<p>Name it OpenRecordingAlliance.net or something more friendly.<p>Credentialed designers, developers, accountants, advertising skill bands together to create a supporting nucleus for aspiring artists. Affinity, past experience, geography are the free coalescing agents.<p>Artists post their intent, biography and whatever rules require. This in formation is visible to registered users which sign up to help. A minimum number of supporting skills will be required to secure success.<p>The artist will mind the guitar, voice or whatever gift may be. Within a given time, legal paperwork is completed, a website, recordings, accounting, trade marks etc. Timelines and rules are set by the OPA.NET governing body.<p>Contractual agreement expires within few months. Ensuing success is shared, credits given. The team may continue to work together with renewed contract as each party agrees.<p>Details of the agreement and its scope are of course, key to the success of this idea. I believe that given such a platform, many artists, designers, web developers would gladly work together to succeed. All activity remains public and auditable during this process.<p>The artist only maintains copyright.<p>We open source the music. As it used to be.
mikeleeorgover 13 years ago
Here's what I would love to see. And I'm 90% sure there are companies already thinking &#38; working on this.<p>I'd love to see a service that offers various "channels" of video content. These channels would be genres, like food, home, comedy, action, etc. The content would be a mix of amateur videos (like home videos), semi-pro videos (like amateurs who've worked hard to create near-professional quality videos), and professional videos (created in formal studios with a full staff).<p>I could subscribe to particular shows within a genre, or just let a channel play random shows for me. Shows could also be recommended to me in a Pandora-like manner that uses my previous viewing behavior + my active ratings to determine my tastes. Most popular shows could also be shown somewhere, in case I wanted to browse what's hot right now.<p>As an example, my wife loves cooking shows. She's found a few amateur/indie chefs on YouTube that seem just as good as "professional" chefs with their own produced TV shows. It would be great to view both types of videos in one place.<p>I love sci-fi and action movies. And you know what? Twitch.tv is pretty damn cool too. As are some cinematic game trailers. I'd love to see all of that in this service too.<p>This service would come with integrated hardware, much like Roku. In a way, this idea is like Roku, but with YouTube videos bundled together. Plus, a "video genome," a Pandora for videos. Oh, and a much better UI.<p>To the people who are already thinking &#38; working on this, please hurry. I can't wait to give you my money and subscribe to your service.
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jfosterover 13 years ago
I'm not sure the suggested approach is right. Trying to replace the medium is overkill, because it's actually just the companies that need to be removed.<p>The companies are able to exist because the $-to-quality ratio is currently very high. It has always been decreasing, but the way to kill the companies quickly is to lower all of the barriers to entry toward $0 sooner.<p>I think it's easier for startups to lower production costs than it is to replace mediums. Shouldn't take too long, either.
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chegraover 13 years ago
My tweet about a month ago in my ideation session for a weekend project: "I'm thinking cinemas are obsolete, and movies should be streaming in my house on their premier." <a href="https://twitter.com/#!/chegra/status/150519505636950016" rel="nofollow">https://twitter.com/#!/chegra/status/150519505636950016</a><p>I was thinking maybe groupon / kickstarter for movies. A studio large or small[ie individual] creates a trailer and people pledge to it. Initially, I was thinking about streaming, but now I'm think just have a download of the movie[better quality].<p>In terms of what would happen in 20 years, I'm banking on the singularity would have happened by then. Films would be generated on the fly to match your mood, personality and preferences to guarantee maximum pleasure.<p>Coming back to the present, the advancement of strong AI[1] would be the natural end to Hollywood.<p>Edit: Took a look at this picture: <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PPTSuperComputersPRINT.jpg" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:PPTSuperComputersPRINT.jpg</a> . Apparently 2013 is the year when we are suppose to have enough computing power to simulate the human brain[feels less crazy for suggesting it.].<p>[1]<a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_AI" rel="nofollow">http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strong_AI</a>
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beilabsover 13 years ago
Checkout <a href="http://setkick.com/" rel="nofollow">http://setkick.com/</a><p>They just got accepted to StartMate, seems to be targeting the right industry.<p>*Disclaimer, in no way affiliated with SetKick!
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jay_kyburzover 13 years ago
Is there a social network / kickstarter like site for making movies. A LinkedIn for Actors, Writers, Directors and everybody else you need to make film and television.<p>I'd be interested in building a site that helps people find each other, review projects and scrape together whatever funding they need to make indie films happen.<p>There have got to be hundreds of people floating around Hollywood trying to get into the mainstream industry.<p>How hard is it for these people to find each other right now?
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greenteaover 13 years ago
My idea is this:<p>A website where you create an account, are able to transfer money into it, and are able to search for a film or episode of a TV series (for a list which we have licensed somehow). When you find the film you want to watch you are given the option to buy it using your credit, if you have bought it there will be download links available: direct/HTTP download as well as something more robust (able to stop and restart half way through with ease). What you get to download is simply a video file (mp4, mkv, something like that) of the episode itself: No adverts stuck onto it, no digital hand cuffs, no hidden water marks than identify you personally: Just the video you want to watch. You can then watch it on your computer as many times as you want but you are not allowed to upload it to the internet or broadcast it publicly etc.<p>I think this is a good idea because it gives people freedom from DRM and harassment and similar such things (many people that currently use torrents do so because they do not like these anti-freedom technological devices). I do not know whether or not any publishers would actually sell licenses for a site like this to use though, I imagine they will argue that as soon as one person downloads it then you can't stop them uploading it and giving it to everyone so they'll get no sales.. in fact this is not a good argument because all this stuff is already available on torrent and file sharing sites.<p>I hope I explained this clearly and suitable for this site. Have been thinking about ways to end DRM (something I am terrified of strangling us even more painfully in the longer term future than hollywood could ever do) for many years but I am not going to make my own startup so I hope someone might find some insight in my idea.
fcholletover 13 years ago
Well, this might be the solution : <a href="http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1028109" rel="nofollow">http://forums.cgsociety.org/showthread.php?t=1028109</a><p>When a few students can do Pixar quality animation, you know where the world is headed, right? Sotfware makes the barrier to entry to creation lower and lower, while the Internet makes the barrier to entry to distribution lower and lower.<p>Entertainement startups will take-over the old giants.
rjurneyover 13 years ago
One area I would encourage startups to get involved with is hollywood analytics: predicting the revenue of films based on their properties. Ryan Cavanaugh has revolutionized film funding, and there is a real opportunity for analytics startups to compete in this area.<p><a href="http://www.esquire.com/features/best-and-brightest-2009/ryan-kavanaugh-1209" rel="nofollow">http://www.esquire.com/features/best-and-brightest-2009/ryan...</a>
jonahover 13 years ago
I have two friends doing content in new ways:<p>* The New Kind - CG Television show, created by a global group of artists with the development posted to Facebook day-by-day: <a href="https://www.facebook.com/pages/THE-NEW-KIND-series/246243672095519" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/pages/THE-NEW-KIND-series/246243672...</a> <a href="https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=127971893907947" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=127971893907947</a><p>* "'One Day On Earth' is the documentary new media project about the amazing diversity, conflict, tragedy, and triumph that occurs in one 24-hour period on this planet. More than a film, 'One Day on Earth' is a multi-platform participatory media project. The flagship of this project is a documentary to be released theatrically. Through a creative commons we will establish a community that not only watches but participates.' <a href="https://www.facebook.com/onedayonearth" rel="nofollow">https://www.facebook.com/onedayonearth</a> <a href="http://www.onedayonearth.org" rel="nofollow">http://www.onedayonearth.org</a><p>Both community created on a global scale, they could only exist in the internet age.
methodinover 13 years ago
Also consider the thing that got movies into the forefront in the first place was excellent use of the medium. The movies of old, due to lack of technological advancements (or even in some cases due to them) were masterfully crafted in the context of the medium. There have been relatively few movies since that era that have utilized dialog so intimately and intelligently as those that were made in the era where all you really had were cameras and audio. I would tend to think that this would translate into where we are currently. The next initiative that can masterfully take advantage of the obvious things at their disposal and package them up into a tight, sound package will be the ones that excel at the craft - and the ones that can get steer us into a new entertainment era.<p>That being said the only thing I can really think that is equivalent to the old era of movies is mobile or streaming. Both of these have potential to disrupt, but both are trying to force old idioms into new technologies. Youtube at least is trying some new things, regardless of how well that works out.
sekover 13 years ago
When we are serious about disrupting the industry we need insiders, the whole Hollywood network is very powerful.<p>They have a very weird scheme, with production companies who always make a loss and agencies who make enormous amount of money with the whole star system. It's very complex, but totally artificial. Look at South Korea, they made a star system out of computer games.<p>This scheme works only in combination with media, what gives them the ability to make marketing and stars at the same time. The big cycle is:<p>Make a movie -&#62; your newspapers write about the movie or the actors -&#62; people watch the movie, actors become stars -&#62; make money with print<p>This is the whole reason these conglomerates exist, there are not many synergy effects in print. It would be totally decentralized/commoditized, but when you sell your PR as content.... big profits.<p>These big schemes have always have flaws, but we need insiders who know where to find them. I am interested in this topic, but all i know are from very few sources. Most of them books, or public funded contend. When i think about it right now, it's totally obvious.
Applebucksover 13 years ago
I'm gonna revive the TwitchTV thread with a true story. I've killed the cable and gone with higher-speed broadband, ordered but not yet installed. I was tired here on Saturday night and went looking for some NBA, and not reading the links closely wound up watching NBA 2k12 on twitch for a few minutes until I snapped it wasn't actually live NBA. That tells me the animation is close to passing for photorealistic, and even that might not be important if the players (the humans [or AIs] playing, I mean) are so good that it is as interesting to watch as it when watching live giant humans really play basketball.<p>Second true story was chaperoning a 15-year-old overnight birthday party right after Skyrim came out. Watching seemed to be quite acceptable entertainment, although there were occasional switches to the Fallout channel. This despite enough controllers for actually multi-play.<p>As has been noted, this is still somewhat Hollywood-y in the movie-sized investment in those games, but the revenue is definitely not going to traditional motion picture studios.
jdietrichover 13 years ago
The leading British film critic Mark Kermode hypothesises that Michael Bay style blockbusters are hits solely because they were expensive to make.<p>He likens these films to a PT Barnum sideshow - people aren't expecting anything of artistic merit, but are instead driven by curiosity as to what the producers spent $140m on. Media attention is inevitable, in the same way that a restaurant announcing a $1000 hamburger is easy fodder for a slow news day.<p>The logic is persuasive in light of the fact that critics and moviegoers alike don't enjoy these films much, nor expect to enjoy them. There's a culture of "movie events", a self-fulfilling prophecy of huge budgets and massive opening weekends. The theory would have it that the re-introduction of 3D is part of this phenomena, with mainstream commercial cinema slowly morphing into the kind of superficial novelty thrill that was once the preserve of IMAX theatres.<p>If the theory is valid, I have no idea how you'd beat Hollywood; I'm fairly certain that the answer won't involve making anything with cultural or artistic worth.
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Eekoover 13 years ago
There is at least one startup I know trying to do that: <a href="http://www.wreckamovie.com/" rel="nofollow">http://www.wreckamovie.com/</a>
jasomillover 13 years ago
One obvious, if nontrivial to implement, idea: simple, low-cost, distributed authoring tools to enable collaboration of geographically distributed production teams in creating YouTube-like content, including "one-click publishing" to YouTube and similar sites and strong integration with consumer-level capture devices such as mobile phones (e.g., flexible iPhone and Android recording apps).<p>Perhaps a less-ambitious place to start, at least bandwidth-wise, would be music — some sort of "GarageBand in the cloud" to enable easy yet powerful "spacetime distributed multitrack recording", again with strong device support and easy publishing of the results, possibly even including track sales, or at least an "e-tip jar", and possibly even an "instant compulsory license" tool for cover songs.<p>In both cases, I'd focus on tools to create "entry-level" original content rather than "mash ups" or "remixes", though the latter would, of course, not be actively discouraged (modulo "unfair use," of course).
zerostar07over 13 years ago
Well the next big step in entertainment must involve something like brain-computer-interfaces that induce whole-senses experiences. But storytelling won't go away. Games will not replace movies or theater or books, it's a different genre. People like stories, they crave for stories, even little kids love stories; stories move people; it's what art is about.
bengl3rtover 13 years ago
What I wonder is, what role does talent play in this transition? I am a hacker by trade but am always thinking about how to "break in" as an actor and be in movies and on television. A myriad of other challenges (including finding the time to compete with a large talent pool) aside, one thing that I realize again and again is that participating in traditional media means supporting and receiving a paycheck from precisely the companies that fund bills like SOPA and think of their customers as "eyeballs with wallets".<p>With the costs of production and distribution ever falling, more and more content is being created outside the traditional media ecosystem. How would I position myself (as an actor or set designer, or sound mixer or etc) to take advantage of the coming transition?<p>Live theater comes to mind as something that might be inline with PG's last paragraph, which suggests more recreational time be spent <i>not</i> looking at screens but engaging with other people.
rcmorinover 13 years ago
Musicians and film production companies need to start acting more like tech startups. Bootstrap, find an audience (traction), raise funding to pay for production costs (friends, family, fools, or kickstarter.com), distribute in iTunes or elsewhere, make money from digital downloads.<p>You could create a tech startup to sell user generated digital content and give back 100% of revenues to the artists. Got a great idea for a film? Find investors, gather the talent, shoot it, and sell it online. Forget about Hollywood.<p>Hacking new ways to distribute user generated digital content is only one part of the solution. iTunes and Youtube already exist for garage bands and film school students to bypass the entertainment industry to sell their work. And most of it is terrible.<p>Technology companies could take an active role in financing the production of quality digital content. Invest $20k into 10-12 artists to seed an album or film leaving enough upside for the company to get back a return.
caustin93over 13 years ago
This comes across as very reactionary and frankly silly. YCombinator believes we should actively work toward making narrative video obsolete? It isn't itself inherently a faulty product or art-form. Do you really believe film's potential to produce creative and commercial success is over, or even implicates being so in the foreseeable future?
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incub8orover 13 years ago
The problem with "killing" Hollywood and replacing it with other forms of entertainment is that GOOD movies fulfil a very specific function: through storytelling they shed light on the human psyche and give us an insight into life itself and our journey through it. This has been the function of stories since our ancestors sat in the dark around fires. (It could be argued that when we sit down in a dark cinema we are tapping into this latent desire to share a common story experience.) The idea of a shared experience hearing a story is as old as the humanity itself.<p>Good novels give us insight into life/ourselves but I doubt video games or surfing the web can be held up as providing the same. They are just ways to pass the time, which could also be said for 90% of Hollywood's current output.<p>Independent film makers therefore have an opportunity to tell the stories the studios do not. So, this begs the question; why haven't we seen the first internet blockbuster?<p>Movie studios' sole focus is money. Money allows them to hire movie stars, to use the best equipment, to buy ad space and to rent movie theatres. In short, money (and how much they are prepared to spend) is what separates anyone with a video camera and an idea, and the major movie studios.<p>Indie filmmakers cannot compete on a level monetary footing. So they must disrupt and stay lean, not only in production but ALSO in marketing and distribution.<p>This is where I believe a lot of indie film makers need to focus on: disruptive distribution.<p>As an example, I directed a movie and treated it as a lean startup from pre production.<p>We are looking to disrupt traditional movie distribution by offering individuals and businesses something tangible and of intrinsic value when they buy our movie: to feature them on a billboard on Times Square. More info on our strategy can be found at: <a href="http://on.fb.me/osp0oE" rel="nofollow">http://on.fb.me/osp0oE</a>
JumpCrisscrossover 13 years ago
Let's jump out way into the future first. Ideal entertainment would be full immersion Matrix-style virtual reality.<p>Closer than that, as a New Yorker, I have found going to the cinema increasingly rare. It feels quaint - arranging my schedule around a place and time of another's choosing.<p>Based on this, I think the film will become more personal. Some have interpreted this as meaning interactive. I think this violates the human need for story telling and receiving - interactivity changes the social function of storytelling profoundly.<p>Instead, I see a more intimate experience. The key part would be entertainment, films, specifically designed for the format.<p>Note that intimate and social are not mutually exclusive. Better than interactivity would probably be characters and settings that build off their audience. Down to the dialogue.<p>That is something that I don't think Hollywood can do today.
os2over 13 years ago
Right now Hollywood make money out of the game by converting them to a movie. I think the next "big thing" would be creating artificial game polygon, where people can go in, pay the same amount of money as they pay for the ticket and play the game as player, not just watcher. People can were all artificial gadgets ( helmets, gloves, even the full suite) and be part of the action. Imagine you can create avatar and play Quake 3 arena death match, or be part of the Fallout, etc. Computer power is already there to create it, it's just a matter to allocate money and gaming developing will begin. It will be win-win scenario, since this new type of entertainment will attract all industry from software / hardware to graphic designed and script writers. And then it can be monetizing the same way as movie.
ctwkover 13 years ago
I believe that the first step is to shrink the role of the middlemen by enabling content creators to distribute and market their content effectively online. In fact, the internet has provided a great way to do just that (it is the perfect distribution and marketing channel)! All of us are constantly sharing and reproducing the content and this helps expose users with all sorts of content. Now if there is a startup which focuses on "following" and "chasing" the content and sell products related to the content itself, I believe that many users will buy the products that interest them. For instance, when we watch "Mission Impossible" we may be interested in the music tracks, the movie DVD, the clothes that the characters are wearing, toys &#38; merchandises etc. If more products are being sold, this is a reflection of the quality of the content itself. Product companies would then want to sponsor and fund for quality content creators to carry on producing content. Apart from that such a platform may allow more quality content to be placed on Youtube where users are abundant!<p>The next step is to make content interactive. PG mention "what are people going to do for fun in 20 years instead of what they do now?" and I thought of the notion of having the viewers of the content to dictate the direction of the show and making the content engaging that it makes me feel like I am part of it. Currently in many games (esp rpg) I decide the route/path that the character follows and this leads to different game endings. This can be applied to movies as well. A movie can have 4 parts and after each part, the movie may request me to buy a certain choice (eg. the character has 3 roads to choose, which do you choose and this will dictate the progression of the story) or product (there are 3 guns to choose, buy 1 from your local store lol! and key in product keycode or something). This can tie in very well with the idea on paragraph 1 where product companies can help sponsor for the video production.<p>What do you think about these ideas? I am working on idea 1 and I would be keen for some feedback and would love for people to contribute to this startup. Hit me up!
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jeffoolover 13 years ago
If you see a film that no one else has seen, you'll spend all your time telling others about it, and to go see it. Despite film viewing being a largely solitary experience, even when holding a girlfriend's hand watching a movie... It's still important in a communal aspect. Just like great songs; they always make us think about other people or our interactions with them.<p>That's why games will eat film's lunch. One day, they'll master that.<p>If I had a startup capital? I'd focus an mmo-like server based game on small communities. Maybe base them around a few hundred players, so you KNOW the people you game with. And your actions have consequences to people you know. The fun of Skyrim, the familiar face of FarmVille, without the crass exploitation of metrics like Zynga, with the heart of Team Ico.<p>Hey, a guy can dream.
david927over 13 years ago
Here's my proposal: "Vertical Facebooks", social networks for certain industries, are a big opportunity. Hollywood is the biggest and best opportunity for this. If Ben Stiller needs to pitch his new project to, say, Mila Kunis, it's pretty inefficient. If a screenwriter has finished a script and wants to tell people about it, same thing. IMDB is already used by studios to vet people -- this is broken and could be made much better.<p>Once you've built and instituted such a Hollywood Facebook (where privacy is everything and joining requires clearing some big barriers), if they try something like SOPA again, you can just go dark. They would be helpless and quickly back down. Don't kill the horse -- just give it a harness.<p>My email is in my profile if you like this.
mckilljoyover 13 years ago
If the killing the movie industry is anything like the dead software industry, I predict another 10 years of billions in profits before they.. keep making billions in profits?..<p><a href="http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.paulgraham.com/microsoft.html</a>
thetabyteover 13 years ago
I know that ideas are easiest part, but it's also important we find a viable alternative to classic Hollywood studios and distribution. The solution is actually strikingly similar as to the one for piracy--provide a solution more convenient and effective then traditional methods.<p>What about a vertical launch platform for media--a combination of Kickstarter, LaunchRock, and more, specifically tailored towards media like music or video. Incorporated social aspects to publicize your project while you fund it. Provide reliable recommendations for resources classically provided by a studio. Allow artists a platform to collaborate and share resources. Etc.<p>Make it more effective then going to a classic label. Won't be easy, but it certainly seems lucrative.
koko775over 13 years ago
As an engineer working at a startup that is actively challenging the entertainment status quo through a slightly non-traditional vector, this RFS strikes me as amazingly naive and lacks any realistic suggestion for what kind of challenges might be most effective.<p>Hollywood isn't dying, nor is it anywhere close. Shedding some excess, maybe, but not dying. It's an overweight person rationalizing away his weight problem instead of committing himself fully to do whatever it takes to become lean and efficient. Apologies if that offends; I don't mean any malice. I simply mean to point out that even without Hollywood, there are any number of entertainment pieces constantly being produced and distributed. Indeed, Hollywood is, in my opinion, little more than a destination and mini-society that brings together and publishes works, as well as an ecosystem of funding. Try finding an animated movie that truly, terribly falls flat like some films. It'll be harder than it would be for a fully live-action film, because they know that without star power or explosions as a fallback, that much more effort needs to be spent on narrative to produce something that, if nothing else, will not tank incredibly. Is it any wonder that the animated versions of large or popular franchises typically have terrible movie productions†?<p>(† in this case I am also including live action movies with a very major animated component, i.e. a mix of live-action and animated characters)<p>The people who build the technological platforms hosting today's entertainment are, by and large, not dumb people. It takes some real skill to scale a site that serves up any number of combinations of video profiles and different target platforms. This, especially, is somewhere the cloud has trouble with cost-effectiveness. Video loads are large, and can be CPU, RAM, and I/O bound (if you're trying to make the most of your resources), and iteration and improvement on the process can take hours or days, not simply minutes, for almost-imperceptible but possibly still important improvements. There are reasons it works for Netflix and reasons that it's more expensive for smaller companies to scale. There's also the fact that DRM is often a contractual obligation, and the start-up costs can run well into the several hundreds of thousands of dollars range, not including high upkeep contributing to a gargantuan TCO by any startup's standards. Then there's the revenue sharing, of course.<p>The problem is not technology, or throwing more startups at the problem. The innovation <i>must</i> come from hacking the business side, or altering the deal with how content providers bring their content to the masses. Building more technology without doing this will waste people's lives and embitter them, because entertainment is being held back not by the available channels to get it to you, but because taking risks and failing fast nets you a blacklist from the people licensing you the content. Put another way, the content providers are choking off new media, not the actual proponents of new media. The pipeline of people making a living off of this stuff leads into hollywood and anything that can be done to divert them away from that walled garden and into a content bazaar will do more to kill Hollywood than actually targeting Hollywood ever will.<p>The solution, in my opinion, is to empower the entertainers and the content producers to reach their audience more directly, more broadly, and with more engagement than a TV or, let's say, a comic book will ever be able to give you. As a medium for entertainment production, YouTube falls flat. It's not the product online entertainment wants to be. It's not a product designed for simulcasts, and it's not a product designed for building communities, or for social watching, or for alternative media formats, or for worldwide publishing with subtitles of customizable language or styles, with pre-roll, mid-roll, or post-roll ads, or for subscription-based monetization. And even if some of these exist separately, they're not all in one place.<p>Also, large video ad tech is fucking terrible and poorly specified, except for Hulu, which has full access to its own tech, which it doesn't license out, as it runs its own in-house ad network. Ad companies tend to have shitty engineers or get bought by Google. But Admob's video ads monetize poorly compared to the other (technically worse) options, surprisingly.
sbtover 13 years ago
While I would like to see Hollywood get competition, I suspect real changes in this industry will eventually come from industry insiders. The success of Spotify is essentially one big lobbying campaign.<p>In the meantime, I would like to see startups that manage to keep an eye on congress while making money. I don't know how, but here are a couple of loose thoughts.<p>- A service that helps people determine who to vote for and who to avoid voting for.<p>- Something that keeps track of representatives based on current issues and where they stand.<p>- An easy way to visualize where backing for new legislation comes from.<p>I'm sure stuff like this already exist, but I suspect it's not easy enough for most people to bother using. It should be dead simple and connect with ordinary stuff people follow in the news.
AznHisokaover 13 years ago
Anyone else remember the days before the internet/smartphone? I distinctly remember spending the majority of my time hanging out with friends, playing in the park, etc. I can't recall the last time I even went to a park anymore... Maybe we need to do more of that.
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lifeisstillgoodover 13 years ago
Internet's killer app will be interactive.  But the Hollywood killer will be a passive mode of consumption (I still do like just to be entertained)<p>Add to this the rise of Facebook and I would do the following.  <p>Put a microphone and speaker in the corner of each room of the dorms at MIT or Yale (not cameras note, we know where that will lead).  let people talk to their friends, whilst not "using" a device.  Let others listen.  Vote up conversations.  Eventually most people are listening in to the most interesting conversation in College.  I would love it to scale so I can spend an evening listening to the most interesting conversation in the world.<p>Reality TV, Social Media, no longer shouting through to the next room.  It's got everything.
chrischenover 13 years ago
I think Hollywood's (and also the Music industry) problem is that the talent and artists are commoditized, instead of the financiers. Compared to the tech startup industry, there are only a few major studios that finance most of the films people watch. This concentrates too much power in too few entities and that's ultimately what has created this Hollywood problem. I don't think movies and tv shows are going away anytime as a form of entertainment.<p>Killing Hollywood is going to require some way to reverse balance of power and commoditize the financiers just like in the tech industry. Then tv shows, movie franchises will more resemble startup companies and hopefully become more forward thinking as well.
asdkl234890over 13 years ago
I very much disagree that what Hollywood thinks is killing them now, is not killing them.<p>It is!<p>There are two parts to Hollywood:<p>1. Being the distributor.<p>2. Being a source of funding.<p>That's it!<p>The internet has been disintermediating (fancy economic term for killing middle-men) industries since it began.<p>Piracy often offers not just a lower price but a far better product. How many stories do we all know of people willing to pay who can't because of how shitty the distribution of Hollywood is? People frustrated by all their legal options to the point of seeking out pirated content despite their ability and willingness to pay. I am one of those people!<p>Better distribution is one half of killing Hollywood.<p>The other part is financing. Big Hollywood studios are in the well known business of managing high risk investments. You spend a lot of money on developing movies, shows, etc, on most you lose money, on some you make a bit, on a few you make all the profit you need to keep going.<p>Who has the same business model? VCs! Also video game publishers.<p>So all you need to kill Hollywood is a tone of cash to fund talent, attract better talent by giving them a better deal and then distribute it better.<p>But here is the catch, a company like that would exist with much lower profit margins than a traditional Hollywood company. It has to! Because that's what killing the middle man is. You take his share of the profit and drop it. Prices of the end product drop, end consumers have more money, the middle man is out of luck.<p>And that is why you can't hasten the end of Hollywood. It's going to be ugly and painful and they know it. That's why they are lobbying like they are going out of business, because they are.<p>The only thing you can do is limit the damage. We should aim for an equal and opposing lobbying arm. If we libertarian minded, super individualistic, detail obsessed, disagreement loving, intellectual bunch of geeks can make that happen, I highly doubt. But I don't see any other way out.
malandrewover 13 years ago
Question on Quora to explore possible market opportunities:<p><a href="http://www.quora.com/What-are-all-the-major-discrete-parts-of-producing-a-film-that-could-be-disrupted-by-technology" rel="nofollow">http://www.quora.com/What-are-all-the-major-discrete-parts-o...</a>
spinfrontierover 13 years ago
In my mind, there are two ways to "kill" the movie and TV industries:<p>1) Replacement of the medium--have movies and TV go the way of Vaudeville through a more popular form of entertainment. Comcast makes upwards of $150/month per customer (2010 data), so there's money waiting to be made, and<p>2) Competition in the medium--low the barriers to entry for movie and TV production to displace today's power centers. Data from GE shows consumers are willing to spend $15-16/month for VOD-like services, so there's a market to foster alternative content in the medium.<p>That said, it's a difficult market. People's habits don't change easily. I worked for a Sequoia-funded streaming movie startup that just went out of business.
oldstrangersover 13 years ago
"The people who run it are so mean and so politically connected that they could do a lot of damage to civil liberties and the world economy on the way down. It would therefore be a good thing if competitors hastened their demise."<p>This seems hypocritical considering YC's funding of companies like Cloudant that go on to work with companies (Monsanto) actively engaged in the worst kind of subversive geopolitical work. Compared to Monsanto, Hollywood is a shinning beacon of freedom and peace.<p>Of course, going on to read the rest of the article it sounds as though YC is more interested in the financial interests of killing Hollywood than the potential political impacts.
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Jenna_Tregover 13 years ago
Perhaps we could start with the elements of films that inspire and delight? The array of emotions that they evoke makes us feel human and connected to a greater human experience; something that I have yet to experience through a game. (Good) films build empathy - they invite us to engage with a different perspective (a miner in Nicaragua, a ballerina etc) and impassion us. This requires effort. Tech often gives us an escape from the effortful human experience, with quick hits that appeal to our egocentrism and primal instincts. Instant gratification. Long-term dissatisfaction. Perhaps why Hollywood is dying.
SkyMarshalover 13 years ago
<i>&#62;When a striker is fouled in the penalty area, he doesn't stop as long as he still has control of the ball; it's only when he's beaten that he turns to appeal to the ref. SOPA shows Hollywood is beaten.</i><p>Love the futbol analogy, but it opens the door for counterattack - many times when the striker is beaten it's by an illegal tackle (dangerous, from behind, or where the defender went for the player rather than the ball) and his appeal to the ref is justified.<p>Of course, many times he's faking and acting, but Hollywood would argue that's not the case here - if they're being beaten it's by illegal means and requires ref intervention.
saalweachterover 13 years ago
What's the timeline for killing Hollywood?<p>This year, a normal movie year, Hollywood will make a profit of $X million.<p>Now let's suppose we "kill" Hollywood. We produce 100% of the new content in 2013, Hollywood produces 0% of the new content. However, Hollywood still has a massive catalog of copyrighted works which they continue to sell. What fraction of that $X million per year they currently make comes from selling old content? What fraction comes from selling works which are two, three, ten years old?<p>Basically, what is a realistic timeline for Hollywood to wind down sufficiently that they can no longer maintain a significant lobbying presence?
gojomoover 13 years ago
Hollywood might answer this with a 'Request for Discovery' in some future lawsuit.
ogterranover 13 years ago
I think killing Hollywood shouldn't be about killing movies and tv shows. It should be about killing the large content providers who is pushing SOPA/PIPA by spending astronomical amount of money on lobbyist. We need to find a way to bring the cost of production and distribution down to a point where creative contributors like directors, actors, and screen writers have more control and majority piece of the pie. Similar to how cost of starting a technology company came down in recent years and founders control and own more. We also need a Y-combinator for movies and tv shows.
AdamFernandezover 13 years ago
Yes! I was thinking the same thing. I'm hoping many more will come to this conclusion:<p><a href="http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3490496" rel="nofollow">http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3490496</a><p>Artists are the key. Can we offer them something better than the existing system? The answer would suggest content production, but how is it funded initially? Is it crowd sourced? Do investors take on the initial risk? Do we make it easier for people to purchase subscriptions to the (new) content they enjoy while giving artists a much higher percentage of revenue?
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andreiursanover 13 years ago
I believe that this is a very good idea. Actors right now are products, and they might go into some kind of startups where they can have a better share of what they worth.<p>Maybe I didn't understood it very well but look what Johnny Depp says: ~"after beeing turned in a product by a very huge corporation, that the hands over me"~ <a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v=dxCaOzmV0LE#t=85s" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&#38;v...</a><p>Hence I believe that here is a problem that can be solved by startups.
caublestoneover 13 years ago
I believe in creating a mix of a.empowering the content creators to create b. quality content that is c. distributed in the most accessible way for consumers and is d. financially sensible for all parties involved.<p>PirateBay pointed it out yesterday; the entertainment industries got greedy and started demanding more rights and driving up costs to fill their pockets.<p>Wouldn't it be awesome if you could have a healthy career, making $60,000+, by entertaining people with what you love? As in, do you really need to make $20,000,000 to act/sing/write etc?
robotjoshover 13 years ago
Hollywood won't die until the movie theater monopoly on new releases ends. Most people have comparable bigscreens and surround sound systems already. All that is left is the ability to pay $12 to see a new release in your home. Film producers would make more money by cutting out the middlemen. People would see more new releases even at $12 each you could see 6-10 movies per month for it to cost as much as cable. Some people would see most new releases and cause middle and lower tier movies to make more money.
jeffg2over 13 years ago
Ok, here is the plan: cut them off from the internet:<p>1) Open source service that identifies every hollywood agency, movies studio, and major individual by IP. 2) Home IP address as well. 3) Attach tracking cookies to them 4) Open source API that operates just like an ad server does, and instead of checking home for ads to serve up to these customers, we serve 404 pages. Just black them the hell out.<p>The result: hollywood is now unable to use a sizeable portion of the internet.<p>They fired off the nuclear missiles first, fuck it, it's time for DEFCON-1.
Tychoover 13 years ago
What's all this about 'predetermined' ?
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jackfoxyover 13 years ago
OK, off topic, and I got down-voted last time I asked this question, but here goes...<i>predetermined</i> occurs twice in this post, so what is it, <i>determinism</i> or <i>free will</i>?
scriptdudeover 13 years ago
The movie itself is no longer the value. You have your 50" TV at home, with your own drinks and friends.<p>Why would you go out and pay a lot of money if you can One-Click-Download your way to better "value" watching the movie at home?<p>So focus on creating extra value. The movie ticket has a dual role as a lottery ticket. Maybe you can win 1% of the revenue -or- your can win a trip for 2 to a Hollywood red carpet event.<p>Hell, Charlie and the Chocolate Factory style golden ticket: win yourself a chance to star in the movie studio's next big production.
jkeelover 13 years ago
A big THANK YOU from me. I have been talking to my wife for some time about how I'd like for Internet companies to start taking aim at the same people that are aiming at us. It's not about revenge though, but as a way to move forward past what I see as the old ideas of IP.<p>Besides, entertainment can be better. I believe in what this post says about getting people to actually spend real time together. I know a lot of people who's idea of quality time is sitting in front of the TV wasting away, albeit together.
Irfaanover 13 years ago
Golly. We're sooo close to getting a rough, web-playable demo of what you're looking for it hurts - a better way to entertain people (with a gamery blend of TV and interaction).<p>It's been a painful slog, though - trying to create rich content's been both more expensive and more daunting then most web-centric MVPs.<p>Is there anyone else already actively working in this space? I'd love to find more folks to network and bounce ideas off of. (And I'd like to hear how you're dealing with the cost of content production. :P)
os2over 13 years ago
What need to be done, is to move games into real poligon games, where people come comein pay the same amout as for movie tickets, but wear all virtual reality gadgets ( helmets, gloves, maybe full suite) and play the games in virtual reality. Imagine poligon for Quake arena, where several team can fight, or Fallout, etc. Its sound expencive to create now, but once it running, it will be much better than go to movie. Gaming industry will like it and will start develop for it.
adnamover 13 years ago
I sense real anger in this RFS, which is uncharacteristic for pg.
anintegerover 13 years ago
I think if you really want to fight Hollywood it would be best to boycott them at the movie theaters and try to support their competitors (Does Netflix count as a competitor?) as much as possible. That means not going to see Nolan's "The Dark Knight Rises". Wait for the DVD/Blu-ray release and don't purchase it. Rent it, or borrow it from someone who has purchased it. Spend as little money as possible on Hollywood. Rinse and repeat with other movies.
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codexover 13 years ago
Mankind has an evolved evolutionary need to tell and listen to stories. Before writing, it was the primary means of knowledge transfer across generations. Most human conversations, in fact, consist of telling stories to one another.<p>Hollywood fills the storytelling need. It's so primal that I think there will always be an industry manufacturing stories, and thus there will always be content owners who want to get paid when someone consumes their work.
trzmielover 13 years ago
Sad and naive.<p>One day art was about a meaning, and works of art carried a message. That used to be true about movies, and it sometimes still is, though rarely so in Hollywood.<p>Now people mix art with entertainment in its lowest form.<p>To me the range looks like: Classic, deep, inspiring, thought-provoking stories on one end; and shallow and worthless entertainment on the other. Sorry, somehow I'm not trading movies for Farmville, even though it's huge, social, addictive and so on.
mellingover 13 years ago
Actually, what should be done is make it easier for small groups of people to make movies. There's always going to be a need for what Hollywood produces. However, for example, if we could start by making Pixar type movies then distribute them somehow for a small fee then lots of independent movie studios would appear. At some point in the next decade or so, we'll be able to create "real people" that replace Hollywood stars.
lukeholderover 13 years ago
Here is MY idea.<p>Anyone can post a movie to the web service (website access/roku access). Hollywood, or freelancer gets to publish on the platform free.<p>Anyone can stream a movie completely free, but every 10-15 minutes the price to see the last 10 minutes of the movie cost 1 dollar more. (ratio variable)<p>You can pay a dollar after the first 10 minutes and watch the whole movie for just a dollar, or you watch all of the movie free but dont see the last 15 minutes ending.<p>/end crazy idea.
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scotty79over 13 years ago
Lifelike voice synthesis (with emotions) and lifelike simulated actors. With such tools anyone who can write a soap opera script can make soap opera.
capkutayover 13 years ago
I think the best way to kill Hollywood would be a large amount of independently funded/produced tv series that are solely broadcast on youtube or some other website. Once entertainers figure out that they don't need to go to Hollywood to become famous, more will follow. Perhaps services that could help web-based entertainment shows reach a larger audience would be a step in the right direction.
troutover 13 years ago
I don't believe you will replace movies with another form of entertainment. They are just stories when distilled when distilled. The stories are a fabric of values, beliefs, morals, and culture that is inseparable from society. Some stories are so representative of the culture it becomes a direct part of culture. Replacing movies will require a more creative way to spread that fabric of ideas.
luigiover 13 years ago
It's the studio and record label system that needs killing. The creative, skilled people who make entertainment and art need to be able to thrive.
odnamraover 13 years ago
I just left this comment over on Fred Wilson's blog (<a href="http://disq.us/536i4t" rel="nofollow">http://disq.us/536i4t</a>). I hope that the message I'm attempting to convey is meaningful to the "Kill Hollywood" crowd on HN as well...<p>There are a lot of comments on this post, but I'm going to attempt to chime in from the EVIL Hollywood perspective.<p>First, let me make it known that I am 100% anti-SOPA/PIPA (I called my representatives six times), but the armchair punditry and belligerent "Kill Hollywood" explosion I've witnessed over the last few days has infuriated me to no end. When I left Paramount to do a software startup, at least I knew what the hell I was taking about.<p>Regarding Nat Torkington's rant: It's true that the tech industry "gave" us many things, HOWEVER, MP3's are meaningless without audio content, MP4 is meaningless without video content, Netflix is meaningless without movie content, iTunes is meaningless without music content... you get the point. In fact, between bittorrent and Netflix, it appears that half of the Internet (if not more) is used to share CONTENT. So yes, thank you for the pipes, but for the love of all that's holy, try and keep in mind what people are ACTUALLY paying for here! Hint: it's not 3G, wifi, iPads, or iPhones, those are merely the vessels to what is actually valuable to the user: the content! What do you think is the driving force behind the evolution of technology? Sheesh! I'm asking that all of you engineers take a breather and try to gain some damn perspective.<p>Yes, the film industry's organizational structure appears to be outdated. Yes, the theatrical distribution model seems counterintuitive. Yes, yes, yes! But... Record revenues (or close to it) continue year after year. Revenue from theaters still represents $30 billion of the ~$90 billion dollars the industry rakes in each year. Growth in China is almost 40% annually. The film industry isn't exactly in a hurry to abandon the scarcity model.<p>Bottom line, there are a lot of elements at play here. Please, please, please get some perspective before you go off extolling the virtues of your newest "platform." There are ways to disrupt Hollywood, both in a Schumpeterian way, and in a collaborative way, but I have yet to see anything that truly encapsulates the content industry's needs in a meaningful way.<p>Thanks for listening to my rant!<p>P.S.Crowd funding is to killing Hollywood, as Kickstarter is to killing Apple.
thebigshaneover 13 years ago
What monetization options are available in a hyper-efficient distribution model like the one killing Hollywood? Anything besides advertising? Is advertising even enough considering digital media can be manipulated and ads can be parsed out? Are we going to rely on DRM?<p>What about micro-payments? Can we make small payments easy and efficient enough to work? Is flattr scaling well?<p>This sounds like the first hurdle.
jefreybullaover 13 years ago
Virtual Trips with your friends to explore the real world. Something like Street View. You will go in your car with the possibility to invite people to join your car. Your friend could take the drive too. The platform would have video chat and would create environment sounds(city buzz, birds in the park, etc). There will information layers for history, culture, restaurants, etc.
adrianwajover 13 years ago
Fine by me.<p>"I can tell you that the No. 1 problem in Hollywood was and is and always will be pedophilia. That's the biggest problem for children in this industry. ... It's the big secret," Feldman said.<p><a href="http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/corey-feldman-pedophilia-problem-child-actors-contributed-demise/story?id=14256781" rel="nofollow">http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/corey-feldman-pedophilia...</a>
dspeyerover 13 years ago
Might you consider directly funding artistic startups?<p>It would make sense for each movie or television show to be a corporation mostly owned by its founders (the author, director and major actors). The model looks a lot like conventional VC, except for the shape of the exit.<p>It's not clear if long-form video can be made on YC-like funding. If not, maybe start with music, which clearly can.
solnyshokover 13 years ago
I tried to read all comments, but after roughly half of it (300/625) I give up. I think HN discussions could greatly benefit from introducing quota on the number of comments/day and words/comment. I am firm believer, that if you cannot fit your idea in a couple of sentences, you need more time to polish it. I am not suggesting 140 symbols. Oh, wait...
evertonfullerover 13 years ago
So you want to kill and industry that thousands of people love and live for, because you want to 'recreate' it for your own financial gain because you're 'tired' of it. Even though you have absolutely nothing to do with it. Just woke up one morning and went. "Oh, let's kill Hollywood because I have a new idea as to how I want it". Great guys...
ig1over 13 years ago
It interesting to see how narrow the responses are here, what may be the standard entertainment in 20 years time might be something that unlike anything mainstream today.<p>It could be something completely new or something that's incredibly niche right now (for example machines which induce lucid dreaming - what happens when they become reliable and cheap?).
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robryanover 13 years ago
In terms of TV, disrupting the current measurement norms would be a great start. The current methods of measurement are horrible at recognising new media, the success of a TV show and it's ability to attract more funding to continue is far to highly dependant on a small number of users on free to air and traditional cable.
corin_over 13 years ago
I know this is completely off-topic, but pg: reading that football analogy from an American makes me love you.<p>On topic, is there not space for (if there was enough funding put into it) a new studio, one that understands the internet and modern culture? I'm not sure it's the content that's wrong, it's the business models around it.
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nekomataover 13 years ago
This battle will be long and tedious gentlemen with setbacks for both sides... but I can see it slowing degrading for Hollywood and you can bet new legislations will make sure they will remain with considerable power for decades after their market lost all appeal and logic sense of existence in a digital world.
barceover 13 years ago
Right now <a href="http://machinima.com/" rel="nofollow">http://machinima.com/</a> is killing it. Their monthly stats for video game play views (ya just people watching videos of people play video games) is better than any TV ever was. Lost only had a small percentage of what Machinima can field for audiences.
srousseyover 13 years ago
Such BULLSHIT.<p>This is a meme that comes up every few years like clockwork. Unfortunately, this one, like others before it, just shows how little people know about Hollywood. I guess it doesn't matter, as it makes for great link-bait. So maybe they know more than they let on, but dumb it down to "mean" people and "dying" industry. Yet, if that were the case, no one would want to take it over. The industry is, however, closer to a zero sum game than not. Offers to be a "partner" are offers to "take" some of the revenue.<p>There are two "modes" of entertainment (I am not counting learning or socializing, which are separate): "games" and "story-telling". I've pitched ideas on a cross-over between the two (over ten years ago), but really the two are very different, right down to how the brain behaves in each mode. Music is interesting because it doesn't take our full attention -- it would interesting to see other entertainment that had that same quality.<p>But anyhow, that doesn't mean that there aren't opportunities in the space, or opportunities for other ways to spend our time.<p>Take music, for example. Drive a brand that curates indie music, and let people invest in the bands (real money), drive that band to their friends, and eventually take a token of their success some day (a 360 deal, not just records, but everything including merchandizing, live performances, etc -- that way each band can determine the best mix, which may be all album sales or free music distribution). Early fans have skin in the game, bands that pick up fans get money to accelerate their reach, and everyone can have fun in the process since they are all partners.<p>And as far as time, think of teenagers and college students (and 20 somethings), hormonally driven to socialize. It was a huge catalyst for AOL (chat rooms), Friendster/MySpace/HotOrNot/Facebook, etc. Later in life there are children, and the need for everything to be all about them, understand them, get away from them. But competition for time is such an open thing, that it seems out of scope unless it is a form of entertainment, even if it is entertaining, like sex.<p>It would be nice to get people to vote on movie selections so a theatre could get it and show it knowing that there is an audience. I'd love to see "Go!" again. There is a business idea for you.<p>So instead of "killing Hollywood", I'm going to see Rocky Horror Picture Show in PacHeights next weekend. It is not an iSomething, it is not virtual, it means real warm bodies and a preset schedule. See ya there!
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shashishekharsover 13 years ago
I have posted a rejoinder on Ben Parr's rants at my blog <a href="http://manku.thimma.org/2012/01/in-defence-of-y-combinators-declaration-of-war-against-hollywood/" rel="nofollow">http://manku.thimma.org/2012/01/in-defence-of-y-combinators-...</a><p>Essentially I believe the time is ripe for disruption to happen at Hollywood.
ak2012over 13 years ago
Does anyone have a connection at Netflix, preferably in biz dev or online partnerships of any kind. They make it notoriously hard to get in touch with anyone there, no emails listed, phone call leads to call center support who cant transfer you to anyone worthwhile, no reply from twitter msgs etc..
faramarzover 13 years ago
Fix the way the Electoral College works, and you've liberated the market. Only then will good ideas actually flourish, and bad ideas/companies fade away.<p>Until we abolish the "first-past-the-post" system and adopt Proportional Representation, there is no hope in fixing the corruption that takes place in Washington.
haroldover 13 years ago
I would love to see a technology wave wash over Hollywood the likes of which we saw with the introduction of Desktop Publishing on the print market 25 or so years ago.<p>Very little comes out of Hollywood these days with any creativity, originality or soul. If there was ever a market ripe for the picking, that's it.
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mg1313over 13 years ago
What's the opinion of people from Hollywood? <a href="http://www.quora.com/Future-of-Entertainment/What-are-all-the-major-discrete-parts-of-producing-a-film-that-could-be-disrupted-by-technology" rel="nofollow">http://www.quora.com/Future-of-Entertainment/What-are-all-th...</a>
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prtamilover 13 years ago
Possible Solutions 1. Invent System like The Matrix. My own Personal Movie,All we need to do is somehow combine neuroscience , Dream Technology, AI etc.. 2. Improve Internet Technology like Private Satellite, Distributed DNS, True internet without Government Intervention.<p>my two cents...... 3.
cumulusover 13 years ago
There was a possibly insightful comment on a reddit thread on the topic of killing hollywood:<p><a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/oqbo5/the_entertainment_industry_is_never_going_to_stop/c3j7gzv" rel="nofollow">http://www.reddit.com/r/politics/comments/oqbo5/the_entertai...</a>
parkaover 13 years ago
The main point is not to kill Hollywood but to force them to compete and evolve.<p>Hollywood sell entertainment services that demand the time of people.<p>The ultimate goal of winning would be to compete and win the time of people. E.g. Newspaper industry is dying because the Internet won the time of people.
sampsonjsover 13 years ago
Graham's Randian techno triumphalism(teh haxxors shall inherit the earth!) is becoming increasingly asinine I see. Movie studios are in decline? I thought their profits and share prices were public record, once you get past any creative accounting, but what do I know: <a href="http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/13/movie-executives-see-record-profits-salaries-despite-piracy-fear-mongering/" rel="nofollow">http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/12/13/movie-executives-see-r...</a>. If anything a switch to streaming would throw the ball back into their court. In fact someone already created what Graham is asking for, you can see it at www.youtube.com. What's that? Youtube was built on copyrighted content? You say creating footage and promoting it ain't cheap? That the advent of digital video didn't kill Hollywood with a flood of indie films about ugly looking people and their depressing lives (which don't involve vampires and werewolves)? Oh...
zallarakover 13 years ago
This is excellent, why should a convention be preserved solely for the reason that some want to continue to extract profit? It's like having a great new technology that cures everything, but physicians opposing it because it endangers their livelihood.
rmorrisonover 13 years ago
It's definitely possible to kill hollywood, think about how Old Time Radio was killed by TV.<p>However, whatever kills Hollywood must revolve around storytelling and not just generic entertainment. People won't completely move away from story-based entertainment.
EwanGover 13 years ago
My idea is to build a strong AI system. Point it at your TV and Movie directory/directories. Let it scan through to evaluate what you watch. Then let it start "pitching" ideas for your evaluation. You now have the basis for a personal Pandora of AI created shows (primarily animated initially, although with CGI advancements you could "rig" humanoid video actors to almost a live effect). You can even share your results with others, and perhaps particularly popular ones could be "picked up" by a YouTube or Netflix for wide distribution (though do you pay me or my AI for it).<p>I fully expect that by the 20 year goal that you will see this happening. I suspect someone willing to work with an engine such as Blender and build XML files to control it externally could have a rudimentary version in 2-3 years. I will be happy to discuss further if someone is seriously interested.
apoover 13 years ago
The first thing that came to mind when I saw 'Kill Hollywood' was Guy Kawasaki's 'Killer Gene' theory of business plans:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4etXBEq-ug" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d4etXBEq-ug</a><p>Just sayin'.
techiferousover 13 years ago
Idea: Open-source "movies". Both the tools and the resulting content are open-source.<p>(Incidentally, making a good movie doesn't necessarily have to be expensive. However, making yet another boring car chase scene does.)
VikingCoderover 13 years ago
I honestly believe that technologies like Flatr will make this possible.<p>You have to lower the barriers to having people purchase content. There's a mental barrier which stops you from spending $1 to watch another episode of House. Even though you like House, and you'd like to watch another episode.<p>And for "free content," well, ads suck. Nobody likes ads. We don't like being forces to watch ads, before we watch content. People who buy ad space don't like you to be able to skip their ads. YouTube is trying to pitch "skippable ads". Still not close enough, I think.<p>If I watch Sherlock from the BBC and like it, I Flatr it. I think that model works. I'm not sure - but that's my hunch.<p>Humble Indie Bundle is another great example - but I don't think it works for broadcast video.
keechamover 13 years ago
Disappointed that an RFS is just a thinly disguised rant. I love HN, YC, and PG, but this tit-for-tat attempt at retaliation is childish and unworthy of the great minds that populate this forum.
readmeover 13 years ago
With all due respect to the authors of this, I think this kind of writing is just going to fuel the opposition. Imagine if some journalists get a hold of this and do a piece on it.
psawayaover 13 years ago
The Apple TV (if it's real) would definitely facilitate this. Imagine the opportunity to build apps that compete directly with television programming, on the same device.
TamDenholmover 13 years ago
Id like to see more content production companies, like revision3 or some of the big youtubers, but aimed at mainstream audiences. I think that would be a good first step.
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dmoneyover 13 years ago
Three things that would help to kill Hollywood:<p>1. Make it less expensive to create entertainment.<p>2. Raise the quality level of what amatuers can create.<p>3. Turn people who would ordinarily be consumers into creators.
thomasgerbeover 13 years ago
As a minority, I'm fine with this. Hollywood constantly casts minorities as stereotypes and almost always casts a white lead with the occasional African American.
statictypeover 13 years ago
Movie/TV Show industry != Hollywood.<p>There could still be a movie industry that doesn't involve Hollywood in the same way that there can be a music industry without record labels
elorantover 13 years ago
You don't have to "kill" Hollywood as a whole. All you need is to heavily disrupt the distribution channel. Control distribution and you control the game.
stubsyover 13 years ago
My suggestion for YC: As an experiment, get some people together and produce a full length feature film. I think you'll learn a bit about how hard it is.
potchover 13 years ago
I interpret this as a call to use innovation and creativity to produce something constructively that will bring Hollywood the fear, and I approve 100%.
midover 13 years ago
Let's kill one of the few remaining private industries where we're still the best in the world?!<p>How about "let's build the next Hollywood" instead?
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re_formatover 13 years ago
Give me the programmers, UI geeks, the money to pay them to do as they are told, and I will build it. I have the idea, and it's actually a proven winner, among a smaller segment of users. Like most other internet phenomena, it's something that was once only done amongst computer nerds only to be later done by the general public as if it was just another usual day-to-day practice. And it actually involves more friends and family and ideally less mass market products.
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lispmover 13 years ago
Wait, this has detected now? Not seen the bullshit that has been published by hollywood over the last years? The stuff that promotes false images and militaristic views? Hollywood looks like an extension of the department of defense for a decade now. Now that the industry wants to control this output in the digital age, people are waking up? I hope it's not to just defend the possibility to copy the war movies for free.
laxkover 13 years ago
Select an actor for main role in the movie. ie: Samuel L. Jackson in the Fight Club movie instead of Bard Pitt.
potomakover 13 years ago
I hope SHADO [1] will do it.<p>[1] <a href="http://entertainment.shado.tv/" rel="nofollow">http://entertainment.shado.tv/</a>
EGregover 13 years ago
Don't you think that is a bit extreme?
kulover 13 years ago
Cool, but, I don't think framing it as "killing" something is the best way to name the RFS.
colinmover 13 years ago
there is plenty of independent movies, the trouble is getting it into cinemas.
dizietover 13 years ago
Companies working in a space like twitch.tv will eventually kill Hollywood.
justinlkarrover 13 years ago
I'm struck that there are great sites for learning how to code and how to build a small business around software development. Nothing like this exists for the entertainment industry. We have BFAs and MFAs that are roughly equivalent to your terminal degrees. But, as in software, many of our superstars and journeymen emerge from an entrepreneurial path instead of academia.<p>Most people who learn-by-doing in entertainment do so without a clearly structured path or often even identifiable short-term goals. They meet and impress people, get on a gigs doing (relatively) menial labor and learn as they go. As their career grows, they learn both craft and business: how do what they like and where, with whom and on what they should be doing it.<p>Sound familiar?<p>As with software, folks who hit the ground running on their own without much skill or business knowledge generally fail quite a bit before they succeed, even if they are in the top 1% on smarts and ambition.<p>Sound familiar?<p>Boards like this one, the various VC blogs and services like Code Academy, StackOverflow and umpteen Rails training sites all help software entrepreneurs focus their early efforts and move through the learning-to-do-it phase of their careers as quickly as possible.<p>Where is this for entertainment? We need a Code Academy for people who want to tell stories and get paid to do it.<p>Start with the basics: What is a story? How does it work? How is something funny or sad?<p>Move to the specific: Write a story to be read. Tell a story to your friends. Tell a story in a video.<p>Cover the business: Where to tell your stories. What different audiences expect. How much money do people expect to pay.<p>Get Detailed: Editing, lighting, acting, advanced wordplay, making-sure-every-single-thing-in-frame-is-perfect.<p>For the startup-makers: The absurd proliferation of MFA programs in every discipline of entertainment suggests that there is a large market for a service that caters to people who want to learn to entertain people professionally.<p>And for the user-students: 1. The emerging industry of professional YouTubers suggests that there is a viable marketplace for entrepreneurs with the skill to make small-scale entertainment people want see. 2. The value that smart, well-trained MFAs bring to the "big entertainment" world suggests to those of us on the inside that some training is totally worth it. We would love to see a way for people to come to us a little less green and with a lot less debt.<p>From an insider's perspective, this would be hugely disruptive.<p>Disclosures: I work in commercial theater, not in film. I have an MFA.
joel--kover 13 years ago
Narrative visual storytelling as an entertainment form won't be killed any more than books will be killed.<p>If you're trying to kill movies and the idea of a shared emotional experience I don't think it'll be done.<p>If you want to kill Hollywood as overly powerful force on our planet then TAKE THEIR TALENT.<p>Enable artists to make money more easily without Hollywood. Save musicians and freedom of speech at the same time. That seems to be the true essence of this thread. Not killing movies per se, right?<p>Check it out: I'm a low budget movie shooter. I've been living this industry for about 8 years. Like a starving artist. I get hired by a string of dreamers that almost always lose money. The movie doesn't always lose money. The artist does. Usually the producer does too. The funds to make the movie have always come from another business or job.<p>"Hollywood" is a marketing, publicity and distribution juggernaut: An independent investor that produces a $100K movie can not invest $15 million in marketing and distribute that movie traditionally. If they could they would. They literally have to go through a Hollywood Studio.<p>Find a major release - other than Passion of the Christ - that wasn't a studio release. I don't think it exists. Plenty of movies get made independently. The tiny few of those that make it to theaters go through a studio. The studios are part of a vertically integrated marketing, news, publicity and distribution system and that is "Hollywood".<p>Conglomerates own the Studios, TV Stations, cable channels, newspapers (they wine and dine critics and reporters on top of that), talk shows and radio stations. Hell, they own the billboard companies. And a chunk of the Internet. But the Internet scares them. It's not piracy that scares them. It's the news / marketing / publicity monopoly they currently own that they fear losing.<p>The Theater Scam: Hollywood studios prebook all the movie slots available at all the theater chains. Theater chains give deference to the studios when booking movies all year long to ensure they get "The Hobbit" when it comes out. If the Theater chains knocks a Hollywood offering out in favor of an Independent movie then maybe they won't get the Hobbit until 1 or 2 weeks after the open. It's a barely legal, "nod and wink" oligopoly that replaced a previously completely illegal monopoly.<p>The clear evidence of this truth is that the most powerful people in Hollywood can't break out of that system. If Tom Cruise could make a $2 million dollar movie and market it for $20 million to make $200 million using his name and fame to skip the studio system he would. Tom does own his own production company. But he can't build a distribution company. 95% of the media is owned by a handful of companies. And they control the theaters too.<p>The Internet is the ONE thing the conglomerates don't own. Barely.<p>A chink in their armor - THE DEAL: Replace the licensing system used to sell movie rights worldwide with an online marketplace. The studios don't own that. Connect the rights buyer and artist directly. In turn, all ARTISTS are joined together in a devastatingly powerful way. David Lynch and Lars Von Trier would be at the head of the pack. Everyone else would follow. A truly independent union of entrepreneur artists. Even independent of a union.<p>Here's how it currently works: Right now, little distribution companies that are actually movie sales reps (not owned by Hollywood) get in the middle of every low budget non-Hollywood movie transaction. They do Hollywood style accounting against the filmmaker so the filmmaker never sees a penny of the money Germany pays for the film. Worse still, you've now lost your rights to YOUR movie in that region. If money is actually made it takes 18 months to get to the filmmaker. That puts a ton of people out of the business. *EDIT - Important point here. This is where all the best talent is funneled into the Hollywood system. You can't make a living as an artist unless you join them. That's a crucial part of my rationale. You don't change Hollywood. You create an alternative to Hollywood that works better for the TALENT. That's how you bring Hollywood down. Steal the next generation of talent from them.<p>A friend of mine works for one of these companies actually DOING the deals so I'm positive I know what I'm talking about here. He's a filmmaker too. He can't even get a good distribution deal out of the company he works for. That's how bad it is. Every indie filmmaker hits this killer brick wall and they are all frustrated.<p>The Money: Paying my bills: If I could sell broadcast and DVD rights directly to German broadcasters without going through a SLEW of middlemen I'd make good money. They pay decent money for decent content. Even stuff without movie stars garners OK cash. You probably can bring in $100K to $300K for a tiny movie if you do it well and maximize the value of your rights. If you win Cannes and Sundance with a commercial piece then you'll sell to a studio (sad, but true). They'll give you the most money for a commercial product that is ready to go. But that's a handful of movie per year.<p>FALLACY- "They wouldn't keep making little movies if they didn't make money" Most little movies are funded by wealthy people for tax benefits, glamour, fun, publicity or to meet an actor. Or a bunch of enthusiasts make a labor of love for free. Some little movies do make money, it's just rare.<p>Public Exhibition rights: Major theaters have to run movies for weeks at a time. Small independent films can't put enough butts in seats to justify that. The theater won't risk their relationship with the studios by running much (if any) content that is not studio content. Technically they "could" legally run independent content. But most theaters require newspaper advertising in support of a movie run. That huge expense kills the deal right there. Who owns the newspaper? The Conglomerate corporations . So they buy advertising from one of their own companies. No real loss. If a little guy wants to "compete" guess what? The big media players STILL take a cut of your profit via Newspaper/TV/Billboard ad revenue.<p>The Internet to the rescue again: If a local art house cinema (or Coffee Shop, Club, Church or ANYONE) could license a digital showing of my movie and pay me even "SMALL X" dollars and sell tickets then both of us may have a viable business model. They could do a SINGLE SOLD OUT showing and move onto the next indie film. They market my movie to their Facebook Fans or Meetup group. Or I market my movie in your Zipcode via Facebook and send people to your theater and provide a sold out show. None of that can happen with Hollywood content and without digital distribution. Indie theaters could more profitably promote Indie content if it was easy to find, preview and acquire. They could show 1000 different titles a year! Finally a competitive advantage over Hollywood for the small theater.<p>Amazon, Google, Youtube, iTunes, Spotify and Netflix are all theoretically in position to help indie artists. They would have if they wanted to already.<p>Currently Spotify and Netflix pay one royalty (high) to major studios &#38; music labels and another royalty (very low) to independent artists. In fact, Hollywood has jacked up the licensing costs to Netflix returning most Netflix profits back into the Studio System. There's no getting around those mofos.<p><a href="http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20080205-261/what-was-hollywoods-role-in-netflix-price-hike/" rel="nofollow">http://news.cnet.com/8301-31001_3-20080205-261/what-was-holl...</a><p>That's the power of Hollywood. They essentially own a monopoly on talent and content because they have longed owned a near monopoly on Marketing &#38; Publicity. You will go through a studio if the money is BIG. Period.<p>Netflix is fighting back by creating their own show. They'll need to create a lot of shows before they become another HBO but it's a reasonable plan of attack. They really could build what I've described here if they wanted to. Maybe Vimeo could do it too.<p>THE REAL PAYOFF: Now imagine a central marketplace for movie rights has aggregated all independent content creators. How tough would it be to start a centralized streaming service for Internet viewing? Internet rights &#38; revenues are always owned by the artist and never sold.<p>THEN all the best content creators in the WORLD would end up creating all the BEST ADVERTISING in the world promoting this new shared "Network". And they probably wouldn't share their content elsewhere. Hollywood would still make blockbusters and larger budget fare. But they'd be locked out of everything else. Hell… even large budget stuff would make it into the system and Hollywood might actually get killed. How long would it take 500 million Internet consumers to switch from Netflix or Youtube? Facebook fast.<p>Completely change the world in 3 years. But all artists have to unite. They have the REAL power.<p>It couldn't be a traditional company that exists to maximize profits. The organizing principle is to maximize artist exposure and/or artist revenues. Perhaps it would have to be a cooperative. I don't think any American company would ever have the balls to do this right. Unless a wealthy artist funded it.<p>So that's the real stuff to wrap your brain around if you want to protect free thought and expression.<p>Oh... Paranormal Activity was purchased for $100K, the STUDIO made $100 Million+ and now SAG is going after the lowly creators (who got the $100k) for royalties of $4 Million. Yeah, the studios and unions are our protectors and Hollywood is the land of milk and honey if you have talent. LOL.
techiferousover 13 years ago
Another idea: choose your own adventure movies.
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bambaxover 13 years ago
Garage Band + open distribution platform?
jfornearover 13 years ago
Film school already killed Hollywood.
wturnerover 13 years ago
What problem does this solve?
holdencover 13 years ago
Bollywood &#62; Hollywood
cranklinover 13 years ago
Hollywood needs to shut up and evolve just like everybody else.
harryloveover 13 years ago
I haven't read all 655 (current) comments so correct me if I've missed something. It seems like there are two threads: 1) "how do we reinvent the screen entertainment and distribution business" and 2) "how do we make something that currently exists more popular".<p>I read the RFS differently. Semantics aside, it seems like the point is to find something better to do with ourselves. It's not to streamline Hollywood, or redistribute the wealth in Hollywood. And it's not to figure out how to make current gaming technology or social networks more popular.<p>I think a key question to ask is, what did we do for fun 300 years ago? What did we do for fun 700 years ago? How about 5,000? If there was no Hollywood, what would we do for fun 20 years from now? Don't assume the internet or video games will play a part, even though they may. Don't box yourself into that corner yet. Don't assume it means replacing movies with more movies.<p>Here are just some examples from the sports world that take us out of our element and, for many fans, create mania: FIFA World Cup. The Tour de France. The Superbowl. The Indy 500. Formula One. The Kentucky Derby. Dakar Rally. Cricket World Cup. Wimbledon. French Open. The Masters Tournament. The PGA Championship.<p>And please don't look at it from the ticketing perspective. I know that sports ticketing is as much of a scam as Hollywood. The point is, how would you create something that excites that mania in people?<p>Don't limit yourself to something YC would fund, either. Perhaps the internet startup will be dead in 20 years. Think about it.<p>* Use semiconductor technology to create real-life quidditch. * Invent hover shoes and create a sport around it. * Invent the successor to the book (the entertainment/information wise, not medium wise) * Invent the successor to the skateboard * Be the next Tim Berners-Lee and invent whatever comes after the web * Invent a way to make friends with every person on the planet * Invent a near-instantaneous means of artistic self-expression that doesn't involve more than $50 up front cost and doesn't require a laptop, tablet, or smartphone * Invent whatever comes after NASCAR * "Kill (your pet peeve)" * Invent a game that involves moving your money away from investment banks * Invent a team sport that a person in any physical condition could excel at and potentially become a highly recruited, highly paid, international star. * Invent a game that kills internet piracy AND Hollywood. * Create a movie that creates a game that creates a movie. * Write a bestselling novel that is optioned by Hollywood and that, by the very creation and production of the film, signals the end of Hollywood, such that Hollywood has no choice but to eat itself. * Create a race of robots whose mission is to kill Hollywood. * Convince everyone in Hollywood that they never wanted to be in the movie business: they've always wanted to be lumberjacks.<p>Or none of those. But just, let's get away from the meme of "Hey, now we're going to do Hollywood internet startup style."
gartdavisover 13 years ago
While I appreciate the sentiment of this RFS with regards to the sclerotic dysfunction of the legal system of copyright (and the business models that perpetuate it), truth be told, as a life-long citizen of startupworld I've often found myself quite jealous of the Hollywood business model. Hollywood is a start-up machine that places huge bets and enables entrepreneurs to form teams, create product, and achieve success or failure 10 or more times in a decade. What a liberating notion!<p>Looking at the talented nerd in their third or fifth year slogging away at a successful enterprise with the possible monetization of their efforts still years over the horizon, I find myself asking: are there ways to make startupworld more like Hollywood? Perhaps there is something to learn from the way that the 'talent' in hollywood works with the 'money'.<p>As a thought exercise, what if doing a start-up was like making a film. Teams assemble, shuffle, and disassemble in an orderly fashion. Artisans are measured in a regular and public way and trade on their value. Quality results are rewarded in short iterative cycles. Its possible for the very best young talent to rise to the top of the profession in ~5 years. Entrepreneurs are funded by the 'money' with terms that are transparent, reasonably standard, and public, so shockingly free of embarrassingly predatory clauses. Shorter cycles, quicker valuation/monetization, a system that screens talent and quickly elevates the best.<p>Oh wait a minute, PG and the Ycomb revolution is actually making all this stuff happen. Which is why I find this conversation amusingly ironic. "Kill hollywood" coming from the institution that is doing the most to re-make the money/talent relationship in startupworld in Hollywood's image. So what keeps them from finishing the job?<p>So this is my real point. Startupworld has its own legal system with sclerotic dysfunction every bit as entrenched as copyright; it effectively bars start-ups from achieving a plurality of investors in common shares at any revenue level below $200m. There's lots of manifestations and motivations for this, but fundamentally, its bad for startupworld and to stretch just a bit, bad for capitalism and democracy.<p>There was a time not too long ago when an excellent young company with $20m in revenues could sell common shares to common people. What a liberating notion! How can we put a SOPA/PIPA-like focus on this issue and sway lawmakers, change votes, write legislation and move governments.<p>While I appreciate the 'kill hollywood' discussion of revolutionizing entertainment... I have to confess that its just not nearly as big a problem, and not nearly as broken as the world all of us work in every day. I'm jealous that Hollywood, through its own ignorance, has managed to marshal our industry's best efforts to midwife its own creative rebirth.<p>What about us?
jaekwonover 13 years ago
challenge accepted
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SlipperySlopeover 13 years ago
Here is an idea for the taking: bypass big-studio production, theaters, cable &#38; physical media sales/rental, and go direct to streaming video rentals, e.g. to Amazon or Netflix, or set up your own streaming infrastructure. This business model is disruptive by capping allowed production budgets and greatly reducing distribution expenses.<p>Produce content digitally. Have subscribers pay a recurring fee to genre-oriented channels like TV but implemented as streaming rentals only. IP is protected similar to existing streaming content.<p>Avoid content production competition from Netflix or Amazon by genre focus, e.g. just military sci fi, or youth romance.<p>Non-broadcast, video on demand can be also targeted at adult audiences - imagine something like the original content HBO produces but with direct-to-consumer streaming video bypassing cable.<p>Exit by selling startup to Amazon, Netflix, Google (YouTube), etc.
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infocaptorover 13 years ago
You don't need a startup to kill hollywood.<p>Here are simple steps<p>Cut down your TV time by 1 hour daily Go to movies only 1 every 2 months<p>-So here is an application idea An application that can be installed on as a plugin somewhere (don't know where) that would automatically flash a alert on the TV screen if you go above 1 hour time limit.<p>But again think about why the human has become so dependent on external stimulus for being constantly entertained.<p>For e.g My kid wants constant attention or entertained.<p>He either wants me to play with him all day Or Watch TV continuously OR Play video games<p>Finding other ways of getting entertained in order to kill hollywood is not the sane idea. The root of the problem is becoming more dependent on external medium for entertainent
drhowarddrfineover 13 years ago
Reading through that, it shows the writer has no clue how entertainment is created. It looks like he feels it can be manufactured by anyone with a slight interest in the subject. I doubt anyone here, save @Keyframe, has ever been on a set to see the hundreds involved at every skill level to put together a motion picture. Or the large group needed to put together any TV show.<p>Kill Hollywood? That's like saying kill Silicon Valley. And equally as stupid.
wavephormover 13 years ago
What replaces big budget Hollywood movies is independently developed (cheap) short-films like the crew of freddiew:<p><a href="http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew" rel="nofollow">http://www.youtube.com/user/freddiew</a><p>If I was a VC I'd buy invest in them to create a new Youtube-ish site for high quality content like that.
_3ex7over 13 years ago
I see the line between television and commercial blurring so much [more than it already is] that everything is grey. Shows wont exist anymore, there will just be "characters" with shows, movies, music albums, etc orbiting around them.
hasturover 13 years ago
I'm really happy that finally someone with considerable clout has noticed that the business side of the content industries is a threat to our society and needs to be eradicated.
powertowerover 13 years ago
This is what Youtube is already doing...<p>Creating millions of channels that anyone can tune in to.