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Banning words won’t make the world more just

981 pointsby furrowedbrowabout 2 years ago

106 comments

neonateabout 2 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;8TnxC" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.ph&#x2F;8TnxC</a>
lynx23about 2 years ago
What was it, 10 to 20 years ago, people started to be noticeably nervous when they were coming near a description of my disability. It used to be so simple. I am 100% blind, and guess what, I prefer the term blind because it is pretty descriptive and relatively short. But all of a sudden, people external to the community started to fumble around with &quot;visually challenged&quot;, and all the nonsense variations of that in my native language. It is so weird, because it adds yet another layer of distance between &quot;us&quot; and the &quot;normal&quot; people. You can almost feel how the stumbling-word is making communication even more awkward. I (and almost all of my friends with a similar disability) make a point of letting people know that we actually prefer the word blind over everything else, and not even that does put people at ease. It sounds a bit provocative, but it feels like that: The language terror they were subjected to has made them so unsecure that they actually dont want to hear that blind people have no issue with being called blind. They somehow continue to argue, sometimes not wanting to accept that and going on to use weird language.<p>Its a weird phenomenon. The longer I watch all of this, and I also mean the gender-language-hacks, I feel like this move has added to the distance between various groups, not made it smaller.<p>It is so condescending to believe your own language-police more then the person you are talking to. Yet, the peer pressure seems to be so high that this actually happens. Sad.
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Sunsparkabout 2 years ago
In my life, I have been deaf, hearing impaired, hard of hearing, hearing challenged. I suppose at some point I will be acoustically disadvantaged.<p>You know what? At the end of the day, I&#x27;m still deaf. It&#x27;s true. I have limitations that others take for granted. If I can&#x27;t see someone speaking or if I&#x27;m out of batteries, we aren&#x27;t going to be communicating well. That&#x27;s pretty deaf. I won&#x27;t be offended, it&#x27;s just reality.<p>Changing language does not, and never did, give me preferential treatment. People are always always going to discriminate and pretty words won&#x27;t stop them.<p>Character and intent is what matters.
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imgabeabout 2 years ago
Wait, brown bag is subtle racism?<p>Somebody needs to explain this to me because I know for a fact I’ve taken lunch to school in paper bags that were literally brown and I have no idea what else this could possibly refer to.<p>Edit: Looked it up: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nbcnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;us-news&#x2F;theres-more-seattle-brown-bag-racial-controversy-meets-eye-flna6C10836263" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nbcnews.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;us-news&#x2F;theres-more-seattle-bro...</a><p>&gt; &quot;the phrase &#x27;brown bag&#x27; does bring up associations with the past when a brown bag was actually used, I understand, to determine if people&#x27;s skin color was light enough to allow admission to an event or to come into a party that was being held in a private home.<p>Yeesh, If someone hears a common phrase (and literal physical description) and immediately jumps to the conclusion that the speaker is referring to some obscure historical factoid in an attempt to slight them...that person needs to get a life. I refuse to believe a single person is actually offended by this rather than just stirring shit up because they crave attention. There&#x27;s no way.
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rayinerabout 2 years ago
The Sierra Club guide is hilarious: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sierraclub.org&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;sce-authors&#x2F;u12332&#x2F;Equity%20Language%20Guide%20Sierra%20Club%202021.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.sierraclub.org&#x2F;sites&#x2F;default&#x2F;files&#x2F;sce-authors&#x2F;u...</a>.<p>&gt; People of color” has in the past served as a collective term for people who are not white. A preferred term today is “BIPOC” referring to Black, Indigenous and people of color, which provides a unifying term for ease of use while still acknowledging the reality that Black and Indigenous people in the United States are impacted by structural and individual racism in a different way than other people of color.<p>I love the “first among equals” aspect of BIPOC. It’s literally just white people creating hierarchies of the other races. Again.
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fleddrabout 2 years ago
We should spend less time on the crazy outcomes of these institutes and more time on <i>why</i> they can even exist in the first place. They are somehow funded yet not accountable to anyone.<p>Nobody asked for this, it doesn&#x27;t help anyone, and it cannot survive the most basic scrutiny of the public or market. And yet it exists and even grows. Rather than playing whack-a-mole with outcomes, the underlying mechanism should be explored.<p>My unscientific take on it is that it is not a matter of real belief, instead a matter of fear. Case in point, businesses do not really care about things like DEI, but a series of impactful lawsuits has scared them senseless. Hence they dress up the optics of DEI to stay out of trouble.<p>Similarly, universities are under pressure to appear &quot;on the right side of history&quot; by aggressive student activists, fueled by the flames of BLM, MeToo, whichever other social justice outrage. Hence, they dress up an extensive administration and force it upon all staff as part of their performance review: demonstrate the 3 ways in which you contributed to the cause this year. It doesn&#x27;t matter if you believe in any of it, just do it regardless. Since none is equipped to do anything actually useful (livable wages, accessible healthcare and housing, etc) the next best thing is some imagined micro aggression.<p>A factory of bullshit and optics driven by fear.
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0xbadc0de5about 2 years ago
Those whose focus is on controlling language are not primarily concerned about controlling your words. They&#x27;re primarily interested in controlling <i>you</i>.<p>I&#x27;m old enough to remember when the word &#x27;retard&#x27; was the politically correct term before it became &quot;mentally handicapped&quot; then &quot;challenged&quot; and so on. Same goes for &#x27;cripple&#x27; which also accurately and concisely describes a particular class of physical impairment. Then it became &quot;handicapped&quot; and &quot;mobility impaired&quot;. These are all euphemisms that do nothing but infantalise those affected while allowing those intent on using them to feel morally superior in doing so.
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hprotagonistabout 2 years ago
<i>As a practical matter, I strongly doubt whether a guy who has four small kids and makes $12,000 a year feels more empowered or less ill-used by a society that carefully refers to him as &quot;economically disadvantaged&quot; rather than &quot;poor.&quot;<p>Were I he, in fact, I&#x27;d probably find the PCE [Politically Correct English] term insulting---not just because it&#x27;s patronizing (which it is) but because it&#x27;s hypocritical and self-serving in a way that oft-patronized people tend to have really good subliminal antennae for.<p>The basic hypocrisy about usages like &quot;economically disadvantaged&quot; and &quot;differently abled&quot; is that PCE advocates believe the beneficiaries of these terms&#x27; compassion and generosity to be poor people and people in wheelchairs, which again omits something that everyone knows but nobody except the scary vocabulary tape ads&#x27; announcer ever mentions---that part of any speaker&#x27;s motive for using a certain vocabulary is always the desire to communicate stuff about himself. Like many forms of Vogue Usage, PCE functions primarily to signal and congratulate certain virtues in the speaker---scrupulous egalitarianism, concern for the dignity of all people, sophistication about the political implications of language---and so serves the self-regarding interests of the PC far more than it serves any of the persons or groups renamed.</i><p>&quot;Authority and American Usage&quot;
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t344344about 2 years ago
Is not &quot;equity language&quot; just another form of neocolonialism? How can &quot;rich educated people&quot; rename entire ethnic group (latinx) without their consent? Also there is nothing offensive about being &quot;poor&quot;...<p>Equity language is just another tool to oppress people.
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kodahabout 2 years ago
&gt; The guide also rejects the disabled in favor of people living with disabilities, for the same reason that enslaved person has generally replaced slave : to affirm, by the tenets of what’s called “people-first language,” that “everyone is first and foremost a person, not their disability or other identity.”<p>The reason people first language fails is because there&#x27;s some subjects of this language that find the original wording insulting and there&#x27;s some subjects of this language that find the new words insulting.<p>I have back issues. Major ones that pinch my sciatic nerve due to a fractured column that healed improperly. They&#x27;ve gotten to the point a few times in my life where I could not walk much less feel (at all) my leg for prolonged periods of time. If someone called me a &quot;person experiencing a disability&quot; it sounds like you&#x27;re trying to remove the hurdle that the disability puts in my life. I already had to grapple with the idea that I am not bound to that disability. I have found ways to climb small mountains, to hike, pack, move&#x2F;lift heavy things, sit, and work out all with abundances of caution and very proper form.<p>That&#x27;s to say, codifying this language just does what the first correction set out to correct: it institutionalized language some people don&#x27;t like. In a world with a big variety of perspectives and experiences, the best resolution to these problems isn&#x27;t some authoritarian document telling people how to talk. It&#x27;s gracefully correcting people on the way that you&#x27;d like to be spoken about and people respecting that. Nobody needs to walk on eggshells around how I&#x27;d like to be referred, they just need to meet me where I am when I make a choice.
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legitsterabout 2 years ago
&quot;Avoid metaphors, which can introduce unneeded baggage.&quot; This is my favorite one from UC Irvine&#x27;s language guide. Nothing better encapsulates the irony and lack of self-awareness most of these guides display.<p>This is clearly not actually about morality - no one in their right mind would argue that someone is racist just because they didn&#x27;t know the etymology of &quot;cakewalk&quot;. And a complete racist could follow these rules easily enough.<p>This seems to me that these are a set of moral grounds to <i>punish people for having a low EQ</i>.<p>None of these rules or guides are even <i>internally</i> consistent. What it will and has always come down to is understanding how to read a room and follow imposed social etiquette (aka, <i>EQ</i> - something that we know is not equally distributed!)<p>Whether people promoting this stuff understand it or not (I think some of them are <i>very aware</i>), they are going to be roping of sections of society just on the grounds of being &quot;too impolite&quot;.
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the_snoozeabout 2 years ago
&gt;When Latinx began to be used in advanced milieus, a poll found that a large majority of Latinos and Hispanics continued to go by the familiar terms and hadn’t heard of the newly coined, nearly unpronounceable one.<p>There&#x27;s also a practical case: these terms make you sound like a damn space alien. Unless your audience already agrees completely with you, you lose credibility by using this language. Posturing for your own team has become more important than relating your views to others and pursuading them to join your side.
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jmullabout 2 years ago
I hope people realize The Atlantic is baiting us to outrage. For the clicks, of course.<p>No question, these language guides are pretty absurd (at least to someone my age) and have very doubtful moral value... but these are internal guides, for their own communications. It&#x27;s the Sierra Club&#x27;s job to figure that out what language their donors&#x2F;members (potential or current) want to hear. I have no idea if they are getting it right here, but few of us do, because that&#x27;s highly domain-specific knowledge and tricky to nail down.<p>It&#x27;s downright dishonest and sensationalistic to apply one of these guides to a book like <i>Behind the Beautiful Forevers</i>. What does a communications guide have to do with book authorship?<p>The article is really just an extended straw man argument. BTW, the first sentence of the Sierra Club guide explains it&#x27;s intended purpose:<p>&gt; One of the most visible ways the Sierra Club can demonstrate our commitment to equity, justice, and inclusion is by using respectful, thoughtful language in all of our communications.<p>But delving into that isn&#x27;t going to drive a lot of click so they went another way.
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usrbinbashabout 2 years ago
&lt;sarcasm&gt;<p>Whaaaat? I thought so many lives were improved by making devteams replace all usages of &quot;black&#x2F;whitelist&quot; with &quot;block&#x2F;allowlist&quot;.<p>&lt;&#x2F;sarcasm&gt;<p>Well, except for the lives of the users, on-call engineers, 1st and 2nd level tech support, the product owners, and everyone else who had to deal with sudden, unexpected, hard to track bugs resulting from such BS changes.<p>&lt;sarcasm&gt;<p>Oh, ofc I apologise for my use of the word &quot;list&quot;, which may be historically charged, and also non-inclusive to people who prefer unordered data.<p>&lt;&#x2F;sarcasm&gt;
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friend_and_foeabout 2 years ago
&gt; Although the guides refer to language “evolving,” these changes are a revolution from above. They haven’t emerged organically from the shifting linguistic habits of large numbers of people.<p>Yes, that&#x27;s sort of the point. The goal here is not only to <i>force</i> people to behave and even think in a certain way, but it is simultaneously a loyalty test and a flex. If it were to happen organically it wouldn&#x27;t serve these purposes.
JenrHywyabout 2 years ago
My 11yo came home from school today:<p>&quot;Dad! We can&#x27;t get rid of any of our Roald Dahl books. They&#x27;re changing the words in them. My class talked about it and we all think it&#x27;s stupid&quot;.<p>A few months back, my 16yo was telling me about a class conversation about their futures, and what everyone wanted most was a stable relationship, a job they enjoyed and to be able to afford a modest house.<p>It&#x27;s reassuring that in a seemingly insane world, the kids who are coming up seem have their heads screwed on straight.
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variantabout 2 years ago
Can we just all start operating from the perspective that we&#x27;re <i>not</i> trying to offend each other?<p>Do away with all these rules that serve no purpose other than to slot each other into buckets of enlightened and evil.<p>It&#x27;s a sign that we have things way too good.
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walnutclosefarmabout 2 years ago
These wholesale moves to prescribe new language in the interest of social justice are the reductio ad absurdum result of the whole menagerie of post-modern identity theories and movements, from critical race theory to post colonial theory to queer theory. It&#x27;s all in service to the notion that you can create truth, particularly about identity, by modifying language and usage.<p>Ironically, it&#x27;s also deeply counterproductive to the goals of identity theories, because it draws overt attention to language and sensitivity about language, in a way that makes identities appear, and to some extent actually become, fragile and dependent on the language. Where a word is owned and deployed by a group to suppress and control some other group (ni**, e.g.), taking the word away, anathematizing it, can indeed be of value. But most of the targets in modern social justice language correction have very little such power, and are not deployed as tools of suppression or oppression by most people. Take a broad enough run at them though, and you can give them that power, at lead in the mind of those to whom the refer.
dimvaabout 2 years ago
The ever-changing euphemistic language seems to me like mostly just a new way to be a hipster. The new vocabulary is a shibboleth to distinguish people who got the right sort of education from the right sort of places. Your knowledge of all the proper euphemisms to use sets you apart from the uneducated rubes.<p>The problem is, it sets you apart from the people you&#x27;re allegedly trying to help, given that the marginalized are rarely those who got an elite education at an elite institution. This is how Republicans, a coalition of rich tax-avoiders and poorer people resenting the contempt of the elites, stay in power. And their political program - slashing benefits, cutting social services - hurts marginalized people the most.<p>By creating a way to be a &quot;good person&quot; that only the most hip and educated people can follow, the language policers are creating a rift between themselves and the people they are trying to help, preventing a political coalition from forming that would be able to pass helpful policies.
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13yearsabout 2 years ago
Given time, “woke” will evolve into its own dialect completely incomprehensible to common language.<p>Every persons unique experience becomes new terms to be added to the lexicon. A burden of irrelevant knowledge for the rest of society to navigate in order to communicate.
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BrandoElFollitoabout 2 years ago
I am French so the wording part did not reach us yet (we still have one word for deaf and blind, and handicapped (disabled)).<p>What unfortunately is present is the way disabled people are perceived, intellect-wise. I can talk of two examples: a wheel-chaired guy in my team, and my wife who got progressively disabled due to MS.<p>The way they are addressed is different from the way others are addressed; It seems that people will be less inclined to argue with them (because god knows what can happen to these feeble people, who should also be shielded from this because of their physical disability that also affects their intellect), but also treat them more child-like.<p>This is infuriating because they are progressively pushed away from the normal interactions in life (for their own good, poor beings) and there is not much they can do to avoid this.<p>My wife still has the character she had but somehow cannot express it anymore because her interactions get so washed down that it is disturbing to watch. Her disability is not that visible yet so she still has some time, but the guy in my team is really fed up with that.
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scarmigabout 2 years ago
The semantic turn of the Left is one of the worst signs of intellectual decay. There&#x27;s approximately zero evidence that linguistic changes influence thought: the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis is rejected by linguists except perhaps in some very narrow situations. The euphemism treadmill is a running joke, from negro, to black, to African American, to Black, to person of color. And none of them are better or worse than the other (though the 2020 innovation &quot;bodies of color&quot; managed to find a way to be more degrading than the worst that Stormfront could come up with).<p>Why? We feel powerless to fix the problems that plague our society, so instead we turn to things we have agency over. Maybe we can&#x27;t prevent group X from suffering from social discrimination, but if everything is just a matter of what words we use, we can just choose to use those words, stridently denounce everyone who hasn&#x27;t gotten with the program, and pat ourselves on the back and call it a day.
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ShredKazooabout 2 years ago
I acknowledge that language shapes the way people think. But the replacement of cost-benefit analysis and evidence-based debate with arguments regarding the connotations that different words pull in has been a huge mistake in my view.<p>There might have been a point at which language policing was done in good faith. But I strongly suspect that the replacement of the word <i>felon</i> with the term <i>justice-involved person</i> is essentially attempting a <i>fait accompli</i> on a debate regarding the extent to which convicted criminals should be considered culpable for their crimes. The problem with this mode of debating is that winning correlates with the ability to wield social power, not with having facts on your side.
jurassicabout 2 years ago
The pendulum is swinging back because equity language censors took this way way too far.<p>People-first language (&quot;enslaved people&quot; not &quot;slaves&quot;) makes complete sense to me, but making a big fuss about how common English idioms like being &quot;blind to a problem&quot; is somehow offensive is going to earn you nothing but eyerolls from nearly everyone. Some of these, like &quot;grandfathering&quot;, cannot even be understood without deep diving on etymology to discover the racist origins. People are so far up their own asses on victimhood culture that the people of high education and privilege driving these initiatives are looking for literally any reason to feign offense on behalf of other peoples&#x27; identities and disabilities.<p>With the prioritization of equity also comes erasure of identity. For example, it seems like we can&#x27;t say &quot;mother&quot; anymore in medical settings. For my partner&#x27;s entire pregnancy, our providers only referred to &quot;birthing people&quot; because of some tiny number of trans men that exist and also want to give birth. I support trans people living however they want, but my mother was a mother, goddammit, not a &quot;birthing person&quot;, and I don&#x27;t appreciate anyone implying that this word and identity are somehow offensive. At work, a &quot;women in engineering&quot; group got renamed to something bland like &quot;gender minorities in tech&quot;.<p>The recently reported bowdlerization of Roald Dahl by &#x27;sensitivity readers&#x27; is another symptom of this illness. The whole equity language sterilization process forgets that words which are synonyms are not interchangeable because to the writer each word is chosen with intention for the flavor it provides, its connotations and rhythm, the image it creates in the mind. People should be able to communicate using whatever words they wish. Otherwise we&#x27;re just deleting colors from the artists&#x27; palette.
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teucrisabout 2 years ago
This article goes way overboard.<p>While some of the things referenced are ridiculous, the author is really misinterpreting many of the guides here, to a point where it feels like willful misinterpretation. For instance.<p>&gt; If we don’t know how to end racism, we can at least call it structural. The guides want to make the ugliness of our society disappear by linguistic fiat.<p>If anything, using the term “structural” helps associate <i>much more</i> context about racism, its causes, and its ugliness, not less.<p>Also, these guides aren’t targeting literature. They mostly meant for situations where you <i>don’t</i> want to evoke emotion in your writing.
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yibgabout 2 years ago
This seems like pretty on point: &quot;The whole tendency of equity language is to blur the contours of hard, often unpleasant facts. This aversion to reality is its main appeal.&quot;<p>Language can and should be provocative at times, because reality can be messy. Sterilizing language like this besides being completely untenable also removes the power of language, both as a positive and negative force.
farnsworthabout 2 years ago
Only tangentially related but I think it&#x27;s interesting that just as we popularized the word &quot;Ms.&quot;, and I think it makes perfect sense not to refer to women primarily by their marital status, we sort of worked around the issue by... largely just not using title&#x2F;last name anymore. Right? I don&#x27;t think I&#x27;ve referred to anyone by a title since my grade school teachers, and at least in my industry and corner of society, it&#x27;s a complete non-issue.
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DubiousPusherabout 2 years ago
This has got to be one of the most over-anxiated, one side arguing with itself sociological phenomena since the white slaver panic that afflicted upper-class ladies in the late 19th century.<p>There is some magazine wash lib, crucifying themselves on this hill on the HN front page every other day. Yet there is practically no one arguing back.<p>Except of course on Twitter. Which apparently some large set of journalists believe reflects some significant portion of public opinion and influence.
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diedeadabout 2 years ago
Some very fun ones relating to the IT&#x2F;tech industry (To me, some of these are reasonable, but &quot;whitespace&quot; and &quot;brown-bag&quot;, seriously??)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;itconnect.uw.edu&#x2F;guides-by-topic&#x2F;identity-diversity-inclusion&#x2F;inclusive-language-guide&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;itconnect.uw.edu&#x2F;guides-by-topic&#x2F;identity-diversity-...</a><p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.it.northwestern.edu&#x2F;about&#x2F;it-projects&#x2F;dei&#x2F;glossary.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.it.northwestern.edu&#x2F;about&#x2F;it-projects&#x2F;dei&#x2F;glossa...</a>
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herewulfabout 2 years ago
&gt; battle and minefield disrespect veterans<p>Came here to say that as a veteran, I promise you that we&#x27;re not too stupid to differentiate figurative use of these words from the literal.<p>The US Army uses the word &quot;battle&quot; so flippantly that it barely has any meaning: battle rhythm, Battle Staff, battle desk, Battle NCO, Battle Captain, Battle Command Systems, battle rattle, and on and on.<p>Seriously, fuck off.<p>Now if you&#x27;ll excuse me, I&#x27;ll be crawling across the earth, meticulously probing a buried-explosive-practicum with a plastic stick.
karaterobotabout 2 years ago
This language got popular not because people thought really hard and all arrived at it independently, through cold-blooded analysis, but because they heard it was what the better class of people did now, and there was peer pressure around it. Because it never had a firm foundation, never really made sense when you thought hard about it, it can easily change to something else. In other words, it&#x27;s a fashion, and fashions change.
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ruszkiabout 2 years ago
The case of swearing discredits this whole article. It’s banned from places, and it’s still used widely. There are people who don’t like it, there are people who use them constantly. Just like the topic of this article.<p>Another thing is that this topic is a discussion in law in the past 100 years in different forms. Just because the public didn’t care until now it doesn’t mean that there wasn’t discussion. There were a lot.
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beebmamabout 2 years ago
Frankly, I don&#x27;t care as long as government isn&#x27;t involved. Companies (and other organizations owned by individuals) should have every right to hire&#x2F;fire people based on the language they use, no matter what language that is. Same with companies that decide who they want to sell to and who they don&#x27;t want to sell to.<p>I&#x27;m very much against the idea of governments limiting speech or forcing behavior on private individuals, with some exceptions in the case of the tragedy of the commons (like with environmental protections, overextraction of renewable resources, etc).
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realjholabout 2 years ago
They are &quot;putting the woke away&quot; now. Alienating your population isn&#x27;t a winning strategy for the regime, especially if you&#x27;re going to need their kids to fight your wars.<p>Notice how Black History Month was dialed right back this year.<p>The woke will go away, but none of the equally and speech laws that lead to this mess are going anywhere.
gumbyabout 2 years ago
The use of Sierra Club as the lead example is a good one because of the racialist motivations in the founding of the club.<p>The change of usage to “enslaved people” is an important one because of the lack of agency in being enslaved (!). It’s easy for the brain to make the connection that a term like “slave” is an inherent property of the person so described, like “brown-haired” rather than something imposed upon them.<p>But as a non-American who’s lived in the US a long time, seeing the term “American” used generally doesn’t bother me: it’s trivial and automatic to see when it’s simply synecdoche for “resident”, “taxpayer”, or, yes, “US citizen, so not applicable to me”. I am not offended when I see a headline, as I did this morning, saying “your passport will be delayed so apply early”. Just doesn’t apply to me so who cares?
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ARandomerDudeabout 2 years ago
&gt; Urban, vibrant, hardworking, and brown bag all crash to earth for subtle racism.<p>I&#x27;m seriously trying to figure out the riddle of how any of these terms are remotely racial.
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awesome_dudeabout 2 years ago
They&#x27;re right to drop &quot;American&quot; but not for the reasons outlined.<p>An &quot;American&quot; is by definition is someone from the American continents (North and South America). Further a &quot;North American&quot; is someone from Mexico, USA, and Canada.<p>It gets worse when people have &quot;Black Americans&quot;, &quot;Italian Americans&quot;, &quot;Asian Americans&quot; because that means that &quot;Americans&quot; is only referring to one group of people from the USA.
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low_tech_loveabout 2 years ago
” But the people in Behind the Beautiful Forevers know they’re poor; they can’t afford to wrap themselves in soft sheets of euphemism. Equity language doesn’t fool anyone who lives with real afflictions. It’s meant to spare only the feelings of those who use it.”<p>Ouch. Bull’s eye.
zoklet-enjoyerabout 2 years ago
While we&#x27;re getting rid of words we consider offensive, let&#x27;s get rid of &quot;consumer.&quot; I find it particularly offensive when politicians refer to the public as consumers.
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vannevarabout 2 years ago
While I think a lot of these efforts are over-zealous, so is the response overblown. Take one example, the term <i>felon</i>. The San Francisco Board of Supervisors apparently recommended using the term &quot;justice-involved person&quot; instead. In response, the author writes:<p>&quot;When the San Francisco Board of Supervisors replaces felon with justice-involved person, it is making an ideological claim—that there is something illegitimate about laws, courts, and prisons.&quot;<p>Huh? That&#x27;s a huge leap. I think it&#x27;s a lot more likely that the intent was simply to separate the person&#x27;s state (having been convicted of a crime) from their identity as a human being. Labels like &quot;felon&quot; imply an essential, unchanging quality rather than a transitory state. Lots of people convicted of felonies later go on to live exemplary lives. I agree with the idea of not painting them all with the same brush. There are probably better substitutes than &quot;justice-involved person&quot;, granted. But saying that term illegitimizes the court system is hyperbolic.
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caltabout 2 years ago
It can often depend on the purpose you&#x27;re writing for. Do you want to be bland, professional, and as inoffensive as possible? Great.<p>In contrast, I think the highlighted excerpt really summed up the article well.<p>&gt; Good writing—vivid imagery, strong statements—will hurt, because it’s bound to convey painful truths.<p>Writing poetry, songs, fiction, and impactfull writing with equity language will always feel hollow.
politicianabout 2 years ago
&gt; The project of the guides is utopian.<p>What I&#x27;ve learned from history is that every utopian dream realized is a dystopia. &quot;In theory, theory is no different from in practice...&quot; as the saying goes.
seydorabout 2 years ago
These may sound funny white north american people&#x27;s problems, but imagine when your AI app is is trying to explain european history to your children without referencing slavery racism or war.
khazhouxabout 2 years ago
What pisses me off is that bullshit like this drives just enough people to vote Republican, and then we can&#x27;t get proper healthcare or energy legislation.<p>This is why we can&#x27;t have good things.
naaskingabout 2 years ago
&gt; Public criticism led Stanford to abolish outright its Elimination of Harmful Language Initiative—not for being ridiculous, but, the university announced, for being “broadly viewed as counter to inclusivity.”<p>Ha, that&#x27;s a great point. The language meant to broaden inclusivity actually erects barriers to inclusivity by excluding those who have never heard the words or the arguments justifying them, and the people excluded are largely marginalized groups to begin with (poor, uneducated, etc.). So basically, inclusive language is classist at the very least.<p>I also think a lot of equity language is a barrier to communication, and that&#x27;s its biggest problem. Possible offense should not be an impediment to clarity, as long as we&#x27;re all being charitable. The loss of the default assumption of charity is the real problem here.
mbfgabout 2 years ago
if people don&#x27;t want certain words associated with them, i&#x27;ll do my best not to do that. I may not know, or i may fail, but i will attempt to do that which is asked of me. Because it&#x27;s not a problem for me to try.
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0dayzabout 2 years ago
I&#x27;m actually a bit torn on this. On the one hand it does seem to be very silly but also ironically enough excluding certain groups (religious and social outcasts).<p>On the other I think there is a valid point in looking over how language is used and what implications it has.<p>But to try and over correct it with new words is like trying to add another layer of paper to make the boat not leak. Since instead of saying you are a retard, now you just say: person with mental challenges.<p>It has the same result when used as an insult, it stigmatizes people with &quot;retardation&quot; and it still insults the other person.
divanabout 2 years ago
&gt; won&#x27;t make the world more just<p>For whom?<p>Here is a comment of one of the members of roller skating community on the renaming &quot;mohawk&quot; and &quot;choctaw&quot; terms in figure skating.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Rollerskating&#x2F;comments&#x2F;jn7ewi&#x2F;comment&#x2F;gb09j2s&#x2F;?utm_source=reddit&amp;utm_medium=web2x&amp;context=3" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.reddit.com&#x2F;r&#x2F;Rollerskating&#x2F;comments&#x2F;jn7ewi&#x2F;comme...</a><p>It&#x27;s pretty clear this change makes world more just, but not for the majority. Which is kind a whole point.
nitwit005about 2 years ago
The obsession with language directly relates to the fact that it doesn&#x27;t matter. They want a safe, meaningless, issue.<p>Real problems are difficult and scary. No one wants to deal with homelessness, drug use, gang violence, or whatever else.<p>If you&#x27;re willing to engage in a little self deception, why not &quot;solve&quot; a pretend issue instead? Go home feeling like a hero because you told people to stop using the word blind as a metaphor. Safe, easy, fulfilling.
garfieldnateabout 2 years ago
I&#x27;ve mentioned this in a previous comment, but I see these policies about language control as fundamentally misguided because they assume that changing words can change the way we think to a significant extent. This is known as the strong Sapir-Whorf hypothesis, and is long considered false by linguists. If you want to change how people think, you must directly convince or teach them to do so. For example, &quot;Mentally retarded&quot; was introduced as a kinder term, and it led to the plain &quot;retarded&quot; that people use as an insult. &quot;Special&quot; went the same way.
Animatsabout 2 years ago
Is this going anywhere outside the US?<p>The &quot;pronouns&quot; thing went nowhere in France. It was considered damaging to the French language.<p>&gt; The euphemism treadmill is a running joke, from negro, to black, to African American, to Black, to person of color.<p>Also, the shift from moron to mentally defective to retarded to whatever.<p>This is such a sideshow. First, conservatism lost its way. Then liberalism lost its way. If only we had a center with a clue. Nobody wants to tackle the hard but solveable problems. We get &quot;defund the police&quot;, rather than &quot;fire the bottom 10% of cops&quot;.
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otikikabout 2 years ago
Relevant: George Carlin on “Soft Language”<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;o25I2fzFGoY" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;o25I2fzFGoY</a>
dandareabout 2 years ago
I am glad to see that toxic masculinity, male gaze, patriarchy, mansplaining, man flu and manspreading are still safe to use! &#x2F;s
eimrineabout 2 years ago
In my language there are three wordforms: masculine, feminitive and middle. If you want to harass someone you can just missplace a letter in any verb about some person and he will be insulted! English is enough good by not having such a word formation, why does somebody need to insist of euphemisms?
civilizedabout 2 years ago
Contemporary word fixation is a distraction. People should get off the social media hamster wheel, take a walk, and dream up a more meaningful way to help their fellow man (human &#x2F; hxmxn &#x2F; whatever).<p>It&#x27;s blown up to the extent that we must now write essays about it, but it would have been better if we had never gone there in the first place.<p>This stuff is very not new. George Carlin did a rant about it over 30 years ago [1]. Seems like the only real effect is class signaling; those who invest in staying &quot;with it&quot; signal their willingness to pay lip service to the latest ideological fads.<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=vuEQixrBKCc</a>
stordoffabout 2 years ago
&gt; The guide also rejects the disabled in favor of people living with disabilities<p>FWIW, as someone with a disability, I just don&#x27;t care about this - your intent and actions matter so much more, as I&#x27;ve commented before[1]:<p>&gt; I&#x27;ve had people who&#x27;ve obviously been trained to use person-first language be actively unpleasant (often the classic &quot;you don&#x27;t look disabled&quot; and questioning the authenticity of my documents), and people who&#x27;ve used clumsy, borderline-offensive language go miles out of their way to help me (and the other way around). [...] I will say &quot;disabled person&quot; stands out to me less, as &quot;person with disabilities&quot; can come across as a little forced[, though it&#x27;s probably because I&#x27;ve heard the former more often].<p>Notably, however, the Sierra Club guide doesn&#x27;t seem to actually call for that as far as I can see - it directs you to refer to the National Center on Disability and Journalism’s Disability Language Style Guide[2], which currently states:<p>&gt; In the past, we have encouraged journalists and others to use person-first language (such as, &quot;a person who has Down syndrome&quot; rather than &quot;a Down syndrome person&quot;) as a default. Even with the caveat that this does not apply to all, we have heard from many people with disabilities who take issue with that advice. For us, this really emphasizes the fact that no two people are the same — either with regard to disabilities or language preferences. And so we are no longer offering advice regarding a default.<p>The one part of the Sierra club guide I would strongly agree with though is:<p>&gt; Similarly, we should avoid making light of things like PTSD, anxiety or OCD, by using real medical diagnoses as a metaphor for everyday emotional experiences.<p>It&#x27;s frustrating to hear people cry &quot;My OCD!&quot; when, for example, they can&#x27;t tidy something up even though it clearly doesn&#x27;t bother them a few seconds later, as it feels like it is trivialising the problems this condition can cause, and doesn&#x27;t even match up with many manifestations of the disorder (my own irrational obsessions cause me to be way _less_ tidy than the average person).<p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29732405" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=29732405</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ncdj.org&#x2F;style-guide&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ncdj.org&#x2F;style-guide&#x2F;</a>
monetusabout 2 years ago
Language is fluid and dictionaries aren&#x27;t that old historically. I wish more people thought about this. Go with what you feel is useful <i>and</i> respectful. Brevity is useful, rephrasing of those words in common use will trigger people, and getting angry at someone&#x27;s desire to be respectful is going to trigger someone. Don&#x27;t like it, come up with your own words. Shakespeare did.<p><i>when someone shows you who they are, believe them the first time</i> - is bs when used to preclude the ideas of change and compassion, or shut down communication. I&#x27;m guessing that likely wasn&#x27;t its original intent, language is fluid.
flangola7about 2 years ago
This author sounds really offended and sensitive.
jeegsyabout 2 years ago
This reminds me of a scene in my favorite movie, &quot;The Big lebowski&quot;. IIRC, the dude is complaining about a &#x27;chinaman&#x27; peeing on his rug. Walter goes on one of his rants and ends with &quot;By the way, Asian-American is the preferred term&quot;. It always struck me as curious that the peeing guy, that Walter is presumably advocating for wasn&#x27;t even present in the scene. All this hullabaloo and most times, the affected person isn&#x27;t even there. Indeed, pronouns are instructions for how people must refer to you when you are not present!
lovemenotabout 2 years ago
The large majority of reasonable people seem to agree that intention is important when determining whether language use might be abuse, or not.<p>Intention is fuzzy and unprovable. People can sometimes lie, evade and troll.<p>Unlike intention, words are black and white, so words can be subject to restriction by motivated people.<p>My question to the HN community is whether it would be feasible to create an effective classifier for intention? For instance if this sentence contained not &quot;N-Word&quot;, but the signifier of that euphemism, it should pass the classifier, since my intention was benign.
sirsinsalotabout 2 years ago
All too often the people calling for a certain change, often aggressively and with great judgement ...<p>Have never bothered to ask those they claim to fight for what they need or want.<p>Its a form of virtue signalling that needs to end.
DeathArrowabout 2 years ago
If we continue like this, a child born 10 years from now won&#x27;t understand a book published 10 years ago. We would need to translate &quot;Old English&quot; to &quot;Woke English&quot;.
mrhektorabout 2 years ago
`Equity language doesn’t fool anyone who lives with real afflictions. It’s meant to spare only the feelings of those who use it.`<p>This perfectly describes what&#x27;s going on. Rather than working on the actual problem, the people gunning for purifying language are yak shaving. I think we all recognise the good intentions, but how do we convince the people with good intentions that they&#x27;re solving the wrong problem? Sounds like the classic case of a startup not talking to their customers :)
maxrev17about 2 years ago
Lol seems like a reductio ad absurdum long game on trying to make people be nice to each other. I might use the &#x27;wrong&#x27; word or an offensive one but I sure as hell don&#x27;t mean it to be and that is easy to spot.<p>Interestingly the people who push these crazy (lol) agendas are normally nowhere near the intended &#x27;offendees&#x27; of the terminology.
jasfiabout 2 years ago
Words can have significant weight in some cultures, especially when used historically as hate speech. When that word disappears from the culture because of a ban it can have a very positive effect. Note that I&#x27;m specifically talking about hate speech, and not any word you don&#x27;t happen to like.
DeathArrowabout 2 years ago
&gt;When the San Francisco Board of Supervisors replaces felon with justice-involved person, it is making an ideological claim—that there is something illegitimate about laws, courts, and prisons.<p>Wouldn&#x27;t it be more appropriate, thoughtful and sensible to use the term &quot;justice oppressed person instead&quot;?
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nicbouabout 2 years ago
Counter-point: we used to call lousy things gay, and made up a whole sexuality for men who took care of their appearance (metrosexual). Perhaps it wasn&#x27;t as bad as the Nazis&#x27; &quot;useless mouths&quot;, but it certainly wasn&#x27;t great.<p>Nowadays we call white immigrants &quot;expats&quot; and other immigrants &quot;immigrants&quot;.<p>Words have power.<p>The problem is when people start using words to create a sort of password game. It keeps some people busy, makes them feel better than others for knowing the passwords, and does little for anyone else.
iamnotsureabout 2 years ago
How about recovering forgotten words.
ranting-mothabout 2 years ago
People start using the &quot;new&quot; words as a derogatory slur.<p>For example, to belittle people, you don&#x27;t call them retarded. You call them mentally challenged. Now being &quot;mentally challenged&quot; has the same politically incorrectness about it as being retarded.
dventimiabout 2 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;newsguidelines.html</a><p>Probably off topic
kepler1about 2 years ago
The funny thing to me is that it felt like this whole field of pronouns, over-sensitivity, not wanting to call things straightforwardly, was propagated by white female journalists and HR directors.
Aleksdevabout 2 years ago
Of course, banning words doesn’t work. You can’t ban speech. As in you literally can’t make humans not say certain words. It’s like banning certain thinking. Just won’t work.
HillRatabout 2 years ago
Writers always see the perceived misuse of words in apocalyptic terms, and <i>The Atlantic</i> is itself invested in a kind of elite moral panic over &quot;woke culture,&quot; so I tend to look at articles like this with some skepticism.<p>One thing is that Packer himself fails to analyze the language under consideration with precision; the examples he lays out all fall, roughly, under a few different categories, which should be considered separately:<p>- Branding and inclusivity: Much of what he proffers as examples are not unfamiliar to anyone who&#x27;s had to work with corporate style guides, where terms are favored or disfavored partially in relation to branding tone and voice, and partially to maximize clarity (idiosyncratic style being a frequent source of confusion). No one&#x27;s harmed by a press release avoiding terms like &quot;blind to&quot; in favor of &quot;refusing to see what&#x27;s happening;&quot; as a personal matter I prefer the concision of the former, but the latter is more plainspoken if also somewhat dull. Plodding and dull is often <i>exactly</i> what you&#x27;re looking for in official communiques.<p>- Specificity and Precision: Again, while using &quot;Americans&quot; to refer to US residents is reasonable in casual contexts, or where American citizens are under discussion (e.g., political contexts), it&#x27;s also reasonable to refer to &quot;US residents&quot; or the like. The biggest problem is that there isn&#x27;t a concise term that covers &quot;US citizens and legal permanent residents&quot; that doesn&#x27;t make you sound like a DHS circular or a legal opinion. (An additional complication is when you&#x27;re working with Mexican and LATAM entities, where &quot;American&quot; is strongly disfavored unless you&#x27;re literally talking about the Americas broadly. Same problem when people use &quot;North American&quot; to refer to US-Candada exclusively.) Slicing your terms finely to clearly delineate what you&#x27;re discussing, and what you&#x27;re <i>not</i> discussing, is again a perfectly reasonable goal in organizational communications, if anathema to a talented writer who is used to bending words to the context, rather than straightjacketing terms within specific contexts.<p>Both inclusivity and specificity are goals of most guides, particularly in journalism. (I&#x27;m not sure what style guide <i>The Atlantic</i> hews to, but rest assured their editors adhere to <i>something</i>.) Packer can argue that the Sierra Club&#x27;s guide tends towards creating uninspired, workmanlike prose, but making a moral panic of that seems unwarranted.<p>- Instrumentalism: Instrumental terms are the ones that do have a real-world impact, because they&#x27;re designed to either defuse or infuse a term with emotional valence. Instrumental terms contain arguments within themselves: using the term &quot;slave&quot; robs the person in question of their agency, which distances policy or analytic questions from those very people; &quot;enslaved person&quot; changes the context to slavery as an imposition on an agentive person; likewise, my preferred term (for Black slaves in US history), &quot;enslaved American&quot; goes evern further, being a deliberate and implicit argument against the legality of slavery even prior to the 13th Amendment. The term &quot;justice-involved person&quot; instead of &quot;felon&quot; is risible even to me, but the negative emotional valence of the latter term has a real effect on policy and the perception of policy, which is why terms like &quot;ex-offender&quot; are becoming more commonly used. Instrumentalist terms can be used for good or for evil; to make arguments, defuse emotional responses, or to invoke high dudgeon (Gingrich&#x27;s famed GOPAC memo is a masterclass on using instrumentalist terms to whip up public emotion).<p>Whereas the worst you can say about branding and precision terms is that they&#x27;re frequently clumsy and bland, instrumentalist language can affect the real world in often direct ways, and it&#x27;s well worth interrogating the use of those terms to make their impact clear. Unfortunately, Packer fails to distinguish between the context of different kinds of language (it should be unsurprising that a policy paper uses clear if clumsy language, while a literary nonfiction book uses poetic and impactful imagery), and lumps all kinds of language style requirements under a general &quot;equity language&quot; heading, which is unhelpful and arguably misleading.
subpixelabout 2 years ago
On a related note, I feel certain that mandating new words (or capitalization of existing words) does not make the world more just or the lives of its inhabitants more harmonious.
low_tech_loveabout 2 years ago
When I first read this post and commented on it, it had the same title as the underlying article. Why was it changed to something else that is not in the article at all?
fundadabout 2 years ago
I’m dying picturing someone with the skills to work at Sierra Club and totally believes climate science but inclusive language is a dealbreaker.
glonqabout 2 years ago
Besides the fact that equity language makes your writing &quot;mushy&quot;, my biggest problem is that it alienates part of your audience, including potential allies.<p>In the mid 2010&#x27;s America tried to become &quot;too woke, too fast&quot; and the backlash inflicted trump and proud boys and a whole lot of socio-political conflict upon the country.<p>Equity language has the same polarizing effect. There are good smart decent honest people who are immediately turned off when they get bombarded with these semantic shenanigans.
mathgladiatorabout 2 years ago
Has anyone compiled a complete list such that people can build the inverse mapping to maximize &#x27;offense&#x27;
myshpaabout 2 years ago
The road to hell is paved with good intentions
fyloraspitabout 2 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=7EMiSsxpP0E">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=7EMiSsxpP0E</a>
DeathArrowabout 2 years ago
Language controls thought. Those who want to control the language want to control how people think.
andrewclunnabout 2 years ago
Look into the entomology of the word &quot;retarded.&quot; They keep changing the word, but whatever they replace it with becomes a pejorative, because the thing it&#x27;s describing is intuitively understood to be negative. Preying upon people&#x27;s sense of justice to promote censorship in the name of justice is... oh what&#x27;s the word...
m3kw9about 2 years ago
Or better to say covering your eyes from the sky doesn’t make it disappear, always gonna be there
reportgunnerabout 2 years ago
This is common sense for people who agree.<p>People who disagee don&#x27;t do it to make the world more just.
flippinburgersabout 2 years ago
Banning biology wont make the world less biological.
wonderwonderabout 2 years ago
&quot;The American Cancer Society advises that Latinx, along with the equally gender-neutral Latine, Latin@, and Latinu, “may or may not be fully embraced by older generations and may need additional explanation.”<p>Cool cool, I look forward as a white guy to explaining to a group of Spanish people why they are wrong and are really LatinX and I&#x27;m doing it for their protection.<p>Imagine being an immigrant and having to learn both English and then a made up filter created by well paid academics on top of it.<p>Just don&#x27;t be racist, we don&#x27;t need all these made up rules created by our betters.<p>It&#x27;s all so tiresome.
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quickthrower2about 2 years ago
Orwell only got the date wrong
10g1kabout 2 years ago
Humans are incapable of learning from history.
Aidevahabout 2 years ago
&gt;<i>Traditionally, Prescriptivists tend to be political conservatives and Descriptivists tend to be liberals. But today’s most powerful influence on the norms of public English is actually a stern and exacting form of liberal Prescriptivism. I refer here to Politically Correct English (PCE), under whose conventions failing students become “high-potential” students and poor people “economically disadvantaged” and people in wheelchairs “differently abled” and a sentence like “White English and Black English are different, and you better learn White English or you’re not going to get good grades” is not blunt but “insensitive.” Although it’s common to make jokes about PCE (referring to ugly people as “aesthetically challenged” and so on), be advised that Politically Correct English’s various pre- and proscriptions are taken very seriously indeed by colleges and corporations and government agencies, whose institutional dialects now evolve under the beady scrutiny of a whole new kind of Language Police.</i><p>&gt;<i>From one perspective, the rise of PCE evinces a kind of Lenin-to-Stalinesque irony. That is, the same ideological principles that informed the original Descriptivist revolution — namely, the rejections of traditional authority (born of Vietnam) and of traditional inequality (born of the civil rights movement) — have now actually produced a far more inflexible Prescriptivism, one largely unencumbered by tradition or complexity and backed by the threat of real-world sanctions (termination, litigation) for those who fail to conform. This is funny in a dark way, maybe, and it’s true that most criticisms of PCE seem to consist in making fun of its trendiness or vapidity. This reviewer’s own opinion is that prescriptive PCE is not just silly but ideologically confused and harmful to its own cause.</i><p>- David Foster Wallace, <i>Tense Present: Democracy, English, and the Wars over Usage</i>, 2001<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;harpers.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;HarpersMagazine-2001-04-0070913.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;harpers.org&#x2F;wp-content&#x2F;uploads&#x2F;HarpersMagazine-2001-...</a>
fourseventyabout 2 years ago
I refuse to rename my git master branch to &#x27;main&#x27;.
blackhazabout 2 years ago
At last, the ray of common sense in this ocean of bullshit.
gcatalfamoabout 2 years ago
Farenheit 451.
jsemrauabout 2 years ago
A word doesn&#x27;t change the fact it describes.
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TurkishPoptartabout 2 years ago
Let&#x27;s just not create any new words &#x2F; neologisms for &quot;social justice&quot; purposes. To be clear, no newspeak. Let&#x27;s remain using the OED from circa 2006.
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ckemereabout 2 years ago
My takeaway from the article was that rather than spending lots of cognitive effort&#x2F; capital on language, we should invest in improving access for the disabledn and marginalized, actually stand up for the poor, etc.<p>For people like me that come to look at the discussion. Quick TL;DR - lots of &quot;I agree, too much wokeness&quot; from people that chose not to get the point. BUT also exciting conversations like &quot;how can I start in trying to make my web material more accessible for the blind.&quot; HN community has some really great contributors.
iLoveOncallabout 2 years ago
&gt; &quot;elevate voices&quot; replaces &quot;empower&quot;<p>Doesn&#x27;t sound very inclusive towards mute people, does it?<p>Those morons are not even good at their own bullshit.
GoblinSlayerabout 2 years ago
The poor and vulnerable don&#x27;t exist, empowerment is not allowed and &quot;corporation&quot; should be spelled &quot;pbuh&quot;.
zuminatorabout 2 years ago
Who&#x27;s banning whom, though? If I decide to call a pregnant woman a &quot;person with pregnancy&quot; and someone jumps down my throat and screams, &quot;she&#x27;s a PREGNANT! WOMAN!!&quot; who&#x27;s doing the language policing here? If I&#x27;ve adopted some trendy equity lingo, that&#x27;s on me. I&#x27;m not telling you what to call her, why are <i>you</i> insisting that I call her by the god-given American apple pie Christian traditional term? I mean, I can fairly guess why, because &quot;person with pregancy&quot; probably sounds icky, performative, and vaguely dehumanizing to you. But if you are a Defender of Free Speech, then you should be supporting my right to utter the terms I prefer from my own mouth, as long as I don&#x27;t try to force those words into yours. And yes I know there are plenty of &quot;progressive&quot; types that will try to force people to use socially correct speech, but Packer&#x27;s article is complaining about equity language guides being used by corporations, an entirely different phenomenon. Why is he bent out of shape about this? I don&#x27;t have a problem with Sierra Club enforcing stylistic etiquette in their own writings, as long as I myself not being compelled to conform with their corporate judgment call. Polite language changes over time, and it&#x27;s reasonable for companies to adapt to that. I&#x27;m old enough to have heard tales of when &quot;pregnant&quot; wasn&#x27;t used in polite company at all, and people instead said, &quot;she&#x27;s with child.&quot;<p>Packer recognizes this on some level, stating, &quot;The battle against euphemism and cliché is long-standing and, mostly, a losing one.&quot; But I think he&#x27;s a bit off with his next assertion: &quot;What’s new and perhaps more threatening about equity language is the special kind of pressure it brings to bear. The conformity it demands isn’t just bureaucratic; it’s moral.&quot; No, euphemism has always been moral. What&#x27;s new now is that everyone&#x27;s a publisher now thanks to social media. So it&#x27;s not just Emily Post, The Hays Code, the US Congress, and other big gatekeepers determining by fiat what counts as offensive, and the rest of us passively falling into line. Now every loser gets to proclaim to the world how offended they are, and due to the nature of social media, the more controversial and theatrical their level of offense is, the more engagement they will receive. Couple that with modern tribalism where people have to prove their loyalty by completely accepting all tenets of their tribe and utterly rejecting all tenets of the opposing tribe.<p>Personal anecdote: I was raised to believe that &quot;the n-word&quot; was inherently offensive. It was never spoken in my house, and to this day I don&#x27;t use it in casual conversation. But I also loved the work of John Lennon. He had an album which featured a song entitled &quot;Woman is the N*** of the World.&quot; The word was spelled out on the album cover and sung in the lyrics. When I was young I would feel hot and embarrassed listening to that track, so I would generally skip it. But I understood and appreciated the sentiment behind it. Even at a young age I could separate his laudable intentions from the potential inappropriateness of his methods. Anyway, it would never have occurred to me to stop listening to Lennon entirely just because of one cringey song. Much less to call radio stations or whatever and try to get them to stop playing his music. It&#x27;s not that I don&#x27;t get highly offended over people saying the N-word. I do. I just believe that, although we should strive not to be needlessly offensive, in the hierarchy of things that are wrong with the world, &quot;getting offended&quot; is pretty far down. Thus I can&#x27;t get behind hair trigger &quot;social justice&quot; warriors who want to destroy the lives of everyone who in their estimation holds shitty personal beliefs. But what&#x27;s even worse are the &quot;free speech&quot; warriors who with no sense of irony will attempt to enact laws banning the speech and ideas of their opponents.
iamnotsureabout 2 years ago
Not to have the last word.
mannyvabout 2 years ago
This doubleplusgood!
eliabout 2 years ago
Who is <i>banning</i> words?<p>I feel like people are deliberately misunderstanding what a style guide is.
ftxbroabout 2 years ago
a meta comment but look how much engagement the culture war posts get in here
andrewstuartabout 2 years ago
The right wing censor by banning books.<p>The left wing censor by rewriting books.
yrdmbabout 2 years ago
Isn&#x27;t theatlantic one of the leading proponent of censorship?
pibechorroabout 2 years ago
Banning words, burning books, shadowbanning, etc.. history shows us where it goes and what kind of people get behind it. The path to hell is paved with good intentions.
fundadabout 2 years ago
Has anyone considered that non-binary Latine benefit from inclusive language differently than people pretending there is a ban on the word Latino?
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