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Indian government bans 14 messenger apps including Element, Briar and Threema

102 pointsby prhrbabout 2 years ago

20 comments

akwizgranabout 2 years ago
Briar developer here. We weren&#x27;t contacted by the Indian government and we haven&#x27;t received a copy of the blocking order.<p>If anyone reading this works at Google or has a contact there, please put us in touch (contact@briarproject.org). We&#x27;d love to know whether Google has received a blocking order, and if possible get a copy of the order so we can challenge it in court.<p>In the meantime, the app remains available from our website and F-Droid (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;briarproject.org&#x2F;download" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;briarproject.org&#x2F;download</a>). The app can also create a wi-fi hotspot to share the APK with people nearby.
rogers18445about 2 years ago
These things are typically bureaucratic security theater. Terrorists can sideload. The decision makers just care to be seen doing something, whether it&#x27;s useful or not is not their problem.
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nine_kabout 2 years ago
&gt; <i>the blocked apps include Crypviser, Enigma, Safeswiss, Wickrme, Mediafire, Briar, BChat, Nandbox, Conion, IMO, Element, Second line, Zangi, Threema, among others.</i><p>That is, anything that&#x27;s easy enough to detect in the traffic, I suppose? Or does it just affect App Store &#x2F; Play Store?<p>&gt; <i>The step was taken after multiple agencies found that these apps were being used by terrorists to communicate with their supporters and on-ground workers</i><p>I wonder if it applies to members of general public, or to trained agents. For the former, the ban may work. For the latter, I suppose, there&#x27;s less chance: they must have other means to install apps, various VPNs set up, and some opsec training.<p>&gt; <i>The government found that these apps did not have representatives in India and they could not be contacted for seeking information as mandated by Indian laws.</i><p>This, of course, should be by design for any really secure communication app. A legal entity representing a secure channel is a people to press on in cases like that, ans such pressure from law enforcement is and will be inevitable. I think Tor network has no legal representative anywhere.
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joecool1029about 2 years ago
Ban seems to be limited to Jammu and Kashmir, not rest of India. Only commenting for additional detail, not to express a viewpoint about it. Another source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;economictimes.indiatimes.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;defence&#x2F;india-blocks-14-apps-in-jammu-and-kashmir-for-spreading-terror&#x2F;articleshow&#x2F;99900313.cms" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;economictimes.indiatimes.com&#x2F;news&#x2F;defence&#x2F;india-bloc...</a>
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potamicabout 2 years ago
Individual countries do stupid things from time to time, but what worries me is the global trend where countries are showing a desire to control communication. It comes in the form of encryption backdoors, age limits for social media, monitoring for child porn etc, but the end goal seems to be complete control of all communication channels between citizens.<p>The concept that governments will love to push for is where citizens need to provide identification for accessing all web services and all web activity is linked to their identification. Digital infrastructure these days is sophisticated enough to handle this and it only takes for one country to enact this and get the ball rolling for everyone else.
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BiteCode_devabout 2 years ago
Briar can be banned, but for now it can&#x27;t really be blocked though.<p>It&#x27;s supposed to work in case the infrastructures are down by design.<p>So it can also work locally, meaning 2 Briar users can meet, and share messages from 1000 other users, and go on their way to propagate the update, without going trough the internet.<p>Now of course you can always enforce the ban, not through blocking, but through detection and punishment. However I doubt you want to spend that much resources for a single app.
opportuneabout 2 years ago
Unless this is a feint, this seems like a dumb way to telegraph which apps you don’t have backdoor access to (the banned ones) and the ones you do (everything relevant enough to be considered that wasn’t banned).<p>Any client side ban can be easily circumvented with sideloading and network-level ban with a VPN (or less easily, TOR)<p>I’m sure in some cases these bans are indeed a feint but not everything is a game of 4d chess. I mean, look at the TSA in the US
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azurenumberabout 2 years ago
List of 14 Apps Banned in J&amp;K by Central Government<p>As per the source, the GoI has banned a total of 14 apps and they are as follows:<p><pre><code> Crypviser Enigma Safeswiss Wickrme Mediafire Briar BChat Nandbox Conion IMO Element Second line Zangi Threema </code></pre> From : <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mysmartprice.com&#x2F;gear&#x2F;full-list-of-14-messenger-apps-banned-india&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mysmartprice.com&#x2F;gear&#x2F;full-list-of-14-messenger-...</a>
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crnkovicabout 2 years ago
The blocked apps are:<p>1. Briar (decentralised encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;briarproject.org" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;briarproject.org</a><p>2. Crypviser (decentralised encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crypviser.network" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;crypviser.network</a><p>3. Enigma (encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;enigma.im&#x2F;en&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;enigma.im&#x2F;en&#x2F;</a><p>4. Safeswiss (encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.safeswiss.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.safeswiss.com</a><p>5. Wickr Me (discontinued encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wickr.com&#x2F;me&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;wickr.com&#x2F;me&#x2F;</a><p>6. Mediafire (file hosting website): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mediafire.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.mediafire.com</a><p>7. BChat (decentralised encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bchat.beldex.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;bchat.beldex.io</a><p>8. Nandbox (unencrypted video&#x2F;voice chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nandbox.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;nandbox.com</a><p>9. Conion (encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=com.secapp.tor.conion&amp;hl=en_IN">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;play.google.com&#x2F;store&#x2F;apps&#x2F;details?id=com.secapp.tor...</a><p>10. IMO (unencrypted video&#x2F;voice chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imo.im" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;imo.im</a><p>11. Element (encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;element.io" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;element.io</a><p>12. 2nd Line (unencrypted VoIP app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.2ndline.co" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.2ndline.co</a><p>13. Zangi (encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zangi.com" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;zangi.com</a><p>14. Threema (encrypted chat app): <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;threema.ch&#x2F;en" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;threema.ch&#x2F;en</a><p>Source: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;india-has-blocked-14-messenger-apps-on-security-fears-1850390425" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;qz.com&#x2F;india-has-blocked-14-messenger-apps-on-securi...</a>
emodendroketabout 2 years ago
&gt; As per a report by News18, based on source inputs, the blocked apps include Crypviser, Enigma, Safeswiss, Wickrme, Mediafire, Briar, BChat, Nandbox, Conion, IMO, Element, Second line, Zangi, Threema, among others<p>Are these more popular outside the US? Maybe I’m just out of touch? It looks like you asked ChatGPT to generate a bunch of fake app names.
bkishanabout 2 years ago
Terrorist use crypto, they also use cash. Ban them too? Doesn&#x27;t make a lot of sense that something is banned just because it was used by a bad actor. Or this is just security theatre.
pferdeabout 2 years ago
Wow, thats a ringing endorsement for these three services ... a totalitarian government banning them. You can&#x27;t pay for that kind of marketing! :-)
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devoutsalsaabout 2 years ago
How about making a chat interface for email? They won’t ban email. Or will they?
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villgaxabout 2 years ago
Nice, now block Koo, ShareChat, Flock in response.<p>Should we just do encrypted SMS at this point lol
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2Gkashmiriabout 2 years ago
as a kashmiri and someone interested in propagation of matrix as a protocol viz a viz EU dma with hopes of the spillover effect reaching the rest of the world and eventually my hometown, this is a spanner in the gears but no worries.<p>element.io is working on Jio fiber here in j&amp;K.<p>AMA
error_404_302about 2 years ago
Is there any indian EFF equivalent who can legally challenge this?
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hestefiskabout 2 years ago
And how come WA is not blocked?
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gopheryourshelfabout 2 years ago
Most of the majoritarian extremism in India is spread through WhatsApp and Facebook. But these two are very close to ruling right wing govt with FB making huge investment in crony capitalists promoting the current govt.
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PrimeMcFlyabout 2 years ago
A decentralized internet is the only way forward, at least if we want to maintain the level of freedom we have now. Too many countries are trying to lock too much stuff down.
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vinay_ysabout 2 years ago
&lt;non-tech&gt; Cross-border terrorism is real. Real-time support (operational and financial) by foreign and local bad actors is real. Governments have a mandate to protect their citizens against them and have to keep up with the tactics, techniques and procedures of these bad actors. So, let&#x27;s not be surprised or shocked when we see news like this. &lt;&#x2F;non-tech&gt;<p>Many apps in this list are also highly vulnerable. Threema, for example, was found to have serious security vulnerabilities due to rolling its own crypto implementations.<p>It is interesting to note that Signal, WhatsApp, iMessage and soon Twitter DMs – all of which claim to have E2E encryption – are not on this list.<p>Does that mean these companies have a way to break encryption and provide access to government when they ask for it? I suspect metadata is definitely accessible via these companies.<p>Interestingly these are all messengers that have mobile phone numbers as primary user handles whereas a lot of the banned messengers are not. So, its possible that there are phone number based zero-click exploits for these popular apps that governments across the world use (remember NSO?) whereas not for less popular apps.
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