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Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds

313 pointsby shaburnabout 2 years ago

34 comments

irsagentabout 2 years ago
<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;9TCQZ" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;archive.is&#x2F;9TCQZ</a>
kitanataabout 2 years ago
You have these cells in your brain called Microglia. They are responsible for cleaning up neurons and plaques and other weird proteins. These Microglia are activated by the firing neurons which release 2-AG and AEA (Anadamide). AEA binds to the CB1 receptor in these Microglia. 2-AG binds to CB2. THC binds to CB1. CBD binds to CB2.<p>Autistic adults have significantly low blood serum levels of AEA. Autistic people’s neurons prune slower. Schizophrenic people’s neurons prune faster.<p>It seems the ECS system is the principal driving mechanism behind both conditions. We need a lot more research in this area, but it could be THC has a positive neurological affect on Autistic people whereas finding a blocker for AEA binding on Microglia may result in a positive neurological affect on Schizophrenic people.<p>The next few years will be especially interesting.
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lisasaysabout 2 years ago
Original journal article (apparently not linked to in the Bloomberg piece):<p><i>Association between cannabis use disorder and schizophrenia stronger in young males than in females</i> (May 4 2023)<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cambridge.org&#x2F;core&#x2F;journals&#x2F;psychological-medicine&#x2F;article&#x2F;association-between-cannabis-use-disorder-and-schizophrenia-stronger-in-young-males-than-in-females&#x2F;E1F8F0E09C6541CB8529A326C3641A68" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.cambridge.org&#x2F;core&#x2F;journals&#x2F;psychological-medici...</a><p>Interestingly, the journal article doesn&#x27;t bother to mention how cannabis use disorder (CUD) is defined; however, Bloomberg&#x27;s description &quot;frequent use despite negative consequences&quot; is essentially that of the DSM, and so is presumably what they&#x27;re using.<p>That is - not based any particular <i>rate</i> of consumption (which is of course difficult to measure reliably, especially in prohibitionist countries like Denmark). But &quot;continued use despite negative consequences&quot;.<p>And that seems to be the crux of the matter: what the article is saying, basically, is that &quot;people who continue to use despite negative consequences ... continue to suffer negative consequences.&quot; Which is rather different from: &quot;Heavy use, by itself, brings these consequences.&quot;
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whats_a_quasarabout 2 years ago
There&#x27;s a really interesting line of research that suggests Schizophrenia is a spectrum, rather than a binary. Lots of people have personality traits that are similar to schizophrenics or have genetic risk factors for the condition. Some of those people develop the full disorder, and some don&#x27;t.<p>There&#x27;s evidence that the reason for the split is that psychosis is itself damaging. Once someone has a psychotic episode, they are much likelier to have more. But the earlier a psychotic episode is interrupted, by anti-psychotics or therapy, the better outcomes are. So the implication is that many people have some degree of vulnerability to schizophrenia, and only those who have psychotic breaks develop the full condition.<p>That&#x27;s a possible causal explanation for a link between marijuana and schizophrenia. Someone who&#x27;s got some vulnerability to psychosis, but wouldn&#x27;t otherwise have developed schizophrenia, might be pushed over the edge by heavy drug use. This jives also with anecdotal reports of people who&#x27;ve had really terrible reactions to other psychedelics.<p>There&#x27;s a fascinating account by a psychologist who&#x27;s also schizophrenic. He didn&#x27;t have his first psychotic break until he was 33, far later than average. He talks about the personality traits of schizophrenics, how he noticed something was off and got early therapy, and how he credits that with delaying a psychotic break and improving his outcomes.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC2632294&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC2632294&#x2F;</a><p>Not a doctor or scientist, just regurgitating research I read for personal interest.
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mikhmhaabout 2 years ago
I really recommend people interested in Schizophrenia to read the book “Hidden Valley Road”. I saw it recommended in a HN comment previously.<p>The book follows an American family who gave birth to 12 children, 6 of whom were later diagnosed with schizophrenia in their teens.<p>It’s interesting because the book gives lots of insight into the historical to modern research on the condition. In the past psychologists thought schizophrenia was caused by the environment and&#x2F;or bad childhood. But most of the research right now is pointing towards a genetic cause.
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xupybdabout 2 years ago
My father was a mental health social worker. He worked with youths, mainly teens. In his experience the vast majority of teens that ended up in his hospital had some drug fueled episode that led to their mental health crisis.<p>He told me that he didn&#x27;t think the drugs caused the mental illness but we&#x27;re often the trigger. That is these kids already had a mental illness that had not started to present symptoms until it was triggered.<p>My father was not opposed to drug use. He had a history of recreational drug use and many of his life long friends are heavy marijuana users. So I don&#x27;t think this observation came from an anti drug bias.
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NickC25about 2 years ago
I find that weed&#x27;s effects just heighten a person&#x27;s extremes. I become slow, almost indecisively slow on the stuff. It does calm my ADHD slightly, but it also helps me sleep. I also only use the stuff at night, generally an hour or two before bed and after all my needs are taken care of.<p>It turns my neurotic brother into a short-tempered asshole. He uses the stuff several times daily.<p>Guess people react differently to a whole variety of substances. Who knew?
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spicyusernameabout 2 years ago
Can we please stop making marijuana so strong.<p>I already cut my marijuana with 50% CBD, and that&#x27;s still plenty strong that I only need a single hit to be plenty high.<p>I can&#x27;t for the life of me understand why there&#x27;s a race to the highest imaginable THC percentage, when it so clearly has an adverse effect on the experience.
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motohagiographyabout 2 years ago
I would wonder what schizophrenia means, as I often joke that some of the insanely potent cannabis for sale at two-shops-on-every-block in Canada is basically recreational schizophrenia. It absolutely affects the quality of peoples reasoning and creates hallucinatory associations and beliefs, if only temporarily. I also feel like the only person who apprecaites how funny it is that a government that legalized smoking unlimited amounts of pot had to pass consequent legislation to fight the propagation of conspiracy theories.<p>The mental health aspect of this is very serious though. I&#x27;ve seen some real burnout and moreso, social withdrawal. In Canada, we&#x27;re sounding this all out in real time, and some days the drugs seem like palliative care for an old culture and society whose end is being hastened.
zoklet-enjoyerabout 2 years ago
I used to smoke in high school and college and it was great, no negative effects. Then I took maybe a half year break at 21. When I smoked again I would get super anxious and paranoid. To the point where I just needed to go lay in bed and wait it out. I thought I smoked too much or it was stronger than what I was used to. Took it a bit easier the next time. Same thing. I stuck to methylone, ketamine, methoxetamine, 2C-E, and a little LSD after that. I was fine with all of those. Then one night I&#x27;m hanging out with some people I barely know, I had a little methylone and ketamine in me, took a puff or 2 of weed. Full blown psychosis for the next 12+ hours. I was convinced they were cops and I locked myself in the bathroom all night. I didn&#x27;t touch weed or much of anything for a couple years after that. Fast forward to 2013, I&#x27;m living in Tacoma, weed was just legalized, I take a hit and I&#x27;m good, take another one and full blown anxiety attack and paranoia. Ok maybe edibles are ok, so I ate some edibles a few months later, not so bad, pretty chill. Over the years since then I&#x27;ve tried smoking, vaping, and eating THC and it usually leads to paranoia and anxiety. Not always though, it&#x27;s like I&#x27;m just really sensitive to it and it&#x27;s really easy to overdo it. I&#x27;ve found that the newer edibles that are from hemp extract and are only like 5mg THC are excellent. I drink a seltzer and I&#x27;m just chill and having a good time. 2 seltzers and I can feel the anxiety start to come on, but I&#x27;m still good. This whole time I&#x27;ve just been trying to chase that feeling it used to give me in high school.
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sosodevabout 2 years ago
I wish I could read the study but it is paywalled. The author of this article calls it &quot;a new study of almost 7 million health records&quot; but really it&#x27;s a review of 20 other studies. So I wonder how they came up that number.<p>Also, it doesn&#x27;t make much sense to me to draw correlations between &quot;high potency&quot; cannabis and these outcomes. The potency of the cannabis shouldn&#x27;t matter nearly as much as the amount of total THC consumed within a single session or whatever, right? I would think it&#x27;s just harder to consume a ton of THC when the potency is lower.<p>edit: The commenter lisasays has found and linked the actual study the article is based off of. Apparently it just wasn&#x27;t linked in the article.
CharlesWabout 2 years ago
This is purely anecdotal, but it reminds me of the recent mental health revelation by Kevin Smith. He was baked all day, every day for 15 years, but quit cold turkey after checking himself into a facility for a month.<p>I thought his discussion about it was interesting. Clearly there was other stuff going on, but he apparently felt his cannabis use was enough of a contributing factor that he decided to stop. <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=JBvc7Ny4iUk">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.youtube.com&#x2F;watch?v=JBvc7Ny4iUk</a>
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m463about 2 years ago
I thought that marijuana interfered with sleep, and you just didn&#x27;t get your proper REM sleep.<p>So if you continue it - REM sleep deprivation has side effects.<p>and if you stop it - your body will try to make up for lost time (REM) and make you hallucinate a lot.<p>maybe all of this is related to schizophrenia
surfsvammelabout 2 years ago
Interesting. My dad developed schizophrenia in his twenties and had been smoking a lot of marijuana. I have always wondered if the smoking triggers something in him. I will always wonder.
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pnathanabout 2 years ago
This confirms the widespread anecdotes online, where so and so&#x27;s friend smoked way too much and had a mental break(more rarely, the sufferer speaks for themselves).<p>I&#x27;m glad to see research on this, but I hope it doesn&#x27;t spawn another wave of reflexive &amp; unthinking anti-drug legislation.
electrondoodabout 2 years ago
n=1, in high school I was smoking a lot of weed, and started having what I discovered years later are called &quot;ideas of reference,&quot; where you start getting the sense that the people around you are talking about you, but secretly. At face value, there&#x27;s nothing you can point to as evidence of this, because it all appears to be normal conversation, but there&#x27;s a secret meaning that only you can hear. You&#x27;re basically projecting your unconscious onto random stimuli, like the conversations of bystanders.<p>If you start believing that this is reality, then it becomes &quot;delusions of reference.&quot;<p>I later learned this can be related to low folate or B12, and suspect that was also a cause.<p>Interestingly enough, I&#x27;m also fairly confident I&#x27;m autistic.
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yieldcrvabout 2 years ago
I like the idea of capping THC potency (delta-9), what we have now isn&#x27;t what we the general public aimed to legalize this is just competition keeping up with consumer demand<p>the consequences should fall on the vendors and growers on a licensing perspective, just like alcohol or food vending
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Maursaultabout 2 years ago
&gt; Heavy marijuana<p>Ordinary marijuana is measured fractions of an ounce or in grams. A half gram in a bowl, which is a lot, contains many doses. I&#x27;ve never heard of this heavy marijuana, but it should be easy enough to identify and avoid.
lionelholtabout 2 years ago
Bloomberg&#x27;s headline very different vs the actual conclusion of the study: &quot;Young males might be particularly susceptible to the effects of cannabis on schizophrenia. At a population level, assuming causality, one-fifth of cases of schizophrenia among young males might be prevented by averting CUD. Results highlight the importance of early detection and treatment of CUD and policy decisions regarding cannabis use and access, particularly for 16–25-year-olds.&quot;
shehrosemianabout 2 years ago
A socio-positivistic statistical study that involves a molecular substance-human interaction is already epistemically imprecise and type-theoretically invalid. You would want a molecular-human statistical study, even for just one person to obtain more precise objective data. Throw the experimental design out and try a responsively appropriate approach for the subject matter, I would advise.
lakomenabout 2 years ago
Old news.<p>I blame the highly potent breeds since NLX.<p>The THC concentration is so high that it&#x27;s too much. Nowadays weeds are even more potent than NLX. Of course our brains can&#x27;t handle that.<p>IMHO those kinds of super weeds are harmful and should be banned.<p>I&#x27;m speaking from my own experience and have seen many friends on stationary observation.
firatsarlarabout 2 years ago
That&#x27;s the funny and uninhibited stance on the applied side of science. The subject is discussed only as matter, abstracting it from values such as culture, life and history, and its effects on pure matter and the human body - again a perception of matter. There is no meaning, culture or context in it. It&#x27;s just ridiculous. The sad thing is, when man has countless problems, serious unresolved problems - let&#x27;s just say Cancer - why this kind of research? The basic logic is control, demeaning and desertification. The human-thing relationship cannot be explained only at the atomic level. The coffee you drink with a person changes according to the person and gains a place in your world of meaning, you may not forget what you talked for years. On a substance level, yes, a panic attack as you drink - presumably - some kind of excitement? The reaction and meaning of a machine-like body and brain to the substance it consumes just to do more work?! I could not adopt the limitless and meaningless scientific approach, I could not find an enlightening side?! Is science real?
1970-01-01about 2 years ago
This is news??<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC3927252&#x2F;" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov&#x2F;pmc&#x2F;articles&#x2F;PMC3927252&#x2F;</a><p>First sentence: Cannabis is a known risk factor for schizophrenia. There&#x27;s more, but read it for yourself.
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mandmandamabout 2 years ago
PSA: With regard to psychosis, there&#x27;s a <i>big</i> difference between high THC cannabis and high CBD cannabis.<p><i>Huge</i>.<p>If you are one of the many who comment with confidence on this issue, but are not aware of the distinction, <i>please</i> consider looking into it.
tysam_andabout 2 years ago
If anyone wants a technical reason, (as best as I understand), this could very well be a very straightforward consequence of THC sensitizing the D2 receptor, which so far at least has been shown to happen in some parts of the brain (<a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;npp201291" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;www.nature.com&#x2F;articles&#x2F;npp201291</a>), as best as I understand.<p>D2 is the primary receptor that many antipsychotics (especially the newer ones) target -- the first generation by completely blocking it, the third by partially agonizing it -- I.E., partially causing it to activate. However, third generation anitpsychotics activate it at a much lower value than dopamine itself would, so you potentially get fewer of the catastrophic side effects than you would from something like haloperidol or risperidone. However all three generations end up balancing out in the end to where they&#x27;re actually not too terribly far apart in terms of side effects for the benefit provided, if I understand correctly, third generation antipsychotics like Abilify (aripiprazole) do hold an edge here.<p>D2 is one of the the receptors used for psychotomimetic models of the brain -- stimulating it tends to bring forward both the positive and negative effects of schizophrenia if I remember correctly. Another psychotomimetic pathway is NMDA antagonism, which makes sense as glutamate is implicated in schizophrenia.<p>What is interesting is that D2 agonists can help trigger latent schizophrenia, which exists genetically and often becomes obvious in the forefront by the late teens and early twenties. Marijuana use before the brain fully develops also has permanent effects on this brain in the same time range (not saying they&#x27;re necessarily related). Schizophrenia does have some very clear structural causes -- for example, pyramidal neurons in some parts of the brain, if I remember correctly, are inverted to route information to lower layers in certain parts than higher ones. These are the neurons that collate and process many-to-one inputs-&gt;outputs.<p>One of the interesting things about schizophrenia is that it results (if I recall correctly) in _lower_ brain entropy on the whole, which is not what one might expect with an information routing issue. This means that one might not reap the benefits of having excess information flow, since not only is there noise being added to the system, the confidence of the outputs of the system are increased.<p>Many people who are schizophrenic tend to have a flat affect and are asocial, and will often have a tendency to safely pull away from society and keep to themselves, for example. They also have a lower tendency to become violent. This partially means, for example, that counterintuitively, that people who are schizophrenic, at least (and I would assume this applies as well to those who have schizophrenic tendencies) tend to have a lower violent crime rate as well. There are outliers, for example in homeless camps intercity, that can make schizophrenics seem more violent, though I would blame this on the human tendency of us valuing long tail events over uneventful ones for determining important information (something absolutely necessary for raw survival in a generally oftentimes cruel and unforgiving world -- society or no. It is unfortunately a useful bias to have).<p>All in all, this is a very interesting (if very tough, hard, and sad at times, to be quite frank!) topic, and does bear much of our interest and empathy. Please be sure to ground yourself in the science of it all, and I encourage you to keep pursuing knowledge about this subject matter. There is not necessarily much new under the sun, and a lot of these studies are not anything surprising, shocking, or novel, but instead confirmation of certain hypotheses or theories that have been running in the community for quite a while. Of course, we don&#x27;t know for sure if this what this is -- this is one person who is not in the medical community&#x27;s take on it (albeit with a fair bit of personal interest and investment in the topic), and someone who is a skilled researcher particular to the subject matter area might give you a different and&#x2F;or better view on it.<p>Source for interest in this case is that I am very much interested in psychopharmacology, and it&#x27;s been an, er, rather involved hobby of mine for a while in terms of the amount of papers and such that I&#x27;ve read on the matter (I also took a graduate class in it for funsies online through the Harvard extension school. I can recommend that experience -- it&#x27;s not that hard to get into, and you get some _quality_ course material, guest speakers from around the field (!!!!), and lectures).<p>Feel free to let me know if you have any questions! Much love!!!! &lt;3 :)))) :&#x27;D &lt;3
cushpushabout 2 years ago
I think also combustion of materials leads to more carcinogen intake. Vaporization of material is much safer, and I would like to see studies on this.
ehPRethabout 2 years ago
While we&#x27;re on the topic; is there like a marijuana that doesn&#x27;t give you the munchies?
Takennicknameabout 2 years ago
100% don&#x27;t doubt it for a second
Yorchabout 2 years ago
Studies have proven that decades ago.
amanaplanacanalabout 2 years ago
Study is probably crap. An association between cannabis use and schizophrenia says nothing about which way the arrow of causation flows. It could very well be that cannabis use causes schizophrenia, or it could be that people feeling early signs of schizophrenia are more likely to use cannabis. There is no way to tell from this kind of study. Science is hard.
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freedudeabout 2 years ago
This isn&#x27;t news. The link between schizophrenia and cannabis use was known in mental health world before it was ever made illegal. The legalization crowd wouldn&#x27;t promote that. The news is the problem is increasing and a 3 in 10 chance of males becoming schizophrenic is a reason to avoid it. Now I wonder what the correlation of cannabis use to active shooter incidents is?
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dahwolfabout 2 years ago
.
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hulituabout 2 years ago
&gt; Heavy marijuana use increases schizophrenia in men, study finds<p>So it is not a problem unless i already have schizophrenia.
iamnotsureabout 2 years ago
Frequent mouse button clicks increase software hangs in desktop environments, study finds.<p>(MJ is an ancient medicine, it can&#x27;t and won&#x27;t cause any disease; proper use is a remedy for many)
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