HN, what the heck has happened to you?<p>What is with all of these cynical comments? Helion is an awesome company, their technology is real, and this is cool.<p>>oh no this might not work!<p>Do you guys not understand that you’re posting on the forum of a venture capital firm/startup accelerator?
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‘ This is a binding agreement that has financial penalties if we can’t build a fusion system,” Helion founder and CEO David Kirtley tells The Verge. “We’ve committed to be able to build a system and sell it commercially to [Microsoft].”<p>Assuming the financial penalties are a significant fraction (i.e they are, say, greater than 5%) of the agreement value, I would interpret it as a more serious / confident commitment and expression of intent and viability, than just a contract that’s hope + way to support.<p>[0] <a href="https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/10/23717332/microsoft-nuclear-fusion-power-plant-helion-purchase-agreement" rel="nofollow">https://www.theverge.com/2023/5/10/23717332/microsoft-nuclea...</a>
Some context - Helion was funded by YC early and more recent rounds were led by Sam Altman personally<p><a href="https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/05/helion-series-e/?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9lbi5tLndpa2lwZWRpYS5vcmcv&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAMGKaezQ-6zpgAhpmL7eVKQ9_C41-NGh4h809Thg1yxE9dc34YaIiClchCdhW9aOQKbKYl7P4LJwQgFN_weoJxOAN90fzYOWHi2WvjOTUCA_GVlFgYU-jBZXchlsBaiwazes4ax7NDD1gAvJZE80GwkMaJrj3RKlTWclKzR6M3b7" rel="nofollow">https://techcrunch.com/2021/11/05/helion-series-e/?guccounte...</a>
Sounds like Altman used his personal relationship with Microsoft CEO to do this meaningless PR stunt, so he can more easily pursaude stupid money to actually invest in this.
So, Microsoft is buying power generated from a Fusion plant that 1. doesnt exist today, and 2. is not even proven to be possible in practical terms(I mean net gain of power from a fusion plant). This kind of PR notice only serves to confuse people who care and fuel the idea that fusion could very well be vapourware.<p>Why not just say "Microsoft commits some money for us to research if Fusion will be possible in ways we can think of"?
If you wanna learn more about Helion, two good videos:<p>One positive: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bDXXWQxK38">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_bDXXWQxK38</a><p>One critical: <a href="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUPhsFoniw">https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3vUPhsFoniw</a>
A company that relies on massive amounts of increasingly expensive electricity to make enormous profits. Agrees to pay another company likely over the odds for early - and no details, but quite likely exclusive access and with Azure compute as part of deal (a la OpenAI)) - for the small amount of electricity that may or may not be initially generated by the other company's technology. Then when/if technology is successful, as it scales up they get to fill their boots with effectively limitless Carbon-free electricity at progressively orders of magnitude lower cost than their competitors have access to.<p>Worst case - a nice bit of PR for Fusion, Helion and MS.<p>Best case - in a few years provides funds to help Helion rapidly scale up, MS - assuming exclusivity - with increasingly low-cost climate-friendly electricity for their data centres that their competitors cannot access. Carbon capture becomes something other than an oil industry excuse, and the human race's bacon is saved.
Real Engineering did a great video on this company and their approach, specifically: <a href="https://youtu.be/_bDXXWQxK38" rel="nofollow">https://youtu.be/_bDXXWQxK38</a>
Reminds me of a similarly vague "statement" made by BOOM supersonic, another YC company. [0] Here's an excerpt:<p>United will purchase 15 of Boom’s ‘Overture’ airliners, once Overture meets United’s demanding safety, operating and sustainability requirements, with an option for 35 more aircraft. Slated to carry passengers in 2029, the net-zero carbon aircraft will fly on 100% sustainable aviation fuel (SAF).<p>Let me tell you where the problem is.<p>If there is no PENALTY for United or Microsoft to get out of the deal, and/or no upfront payment, it's simply a completely empty statement.<p>Let me give you an example.<p>Here, on HN, today, I solemnly declare that I am available to sign a deal with Helion to purchase 50 MW of power generation, for 10 years, generated by their 1st power plant, starting in 2028.<p>We can pre agree on the price, yes. Let's say $40 per MWh [1]. This is 50 MW * 24 * 365 = 438,000 MWh / year, or ~$16M/year. (correct me if this math is completely wrong). Fantastic!<p>Oh, by the way: nothing will happen to me if I walk away from this deal. I am not giving any upfront payment. Nothing. Just my word.<p>See you in 2028. Or not.<p>p.s. happy to be proven wrong, if Microsoft of Helion (or Boom) are kind enough to provide more details about this "agreement".<p>Besides this, I wish them all the best. Just don't try to sell me this PR BS, please.<p>[0]: <a href="https://boomsupersonic.com/united" rel="nofollow">https://boomsupersonic.com/united</a><p>[1]: <a href="https://www.nuenergen.com/solutions/smart-grid/price-point" rel="nofollow">https://www.nuenergen.com/solutions/smart-grid/price-point</a>
Does anyone have some thoughts on whether fusion will actually help fight climate change?<p>Of course, fusion is far more clean than coal or gas and less environmentally destructive, aside from the mining of materials required, than say hydro power plants. But from what I can tell, the primary contributor to damaging the climate and environment is consumption, as a process. I currently see no end result where fusion does not drastically <i>increase</i> consumption, which means more use of non-clean materials and processes.<p>So I guess the question is: will the benefits of fusion offset the increase in consumption?
I love money flowing into these projects. More = better. Nothing is lost. WORST case scenario: some intelligent people will learn new stuff and get to know like minded people.<p>Who knows what they will come up next!
I think Helion has a 50% chance of achieving net electricity next year. When hearing about fusion research, the vast majority of people immediately react with something like "fusion is always 30 years away lol". There's a good chance they will be very surprised.
So, assuming this pans out, would this require Helion to deliver the power to Microsoft off grid? I guess my question is 'what regulatory oversight is typically required in these sorts of situations?'