TE
TechEcho
Home24h TopNewestBestAskShowJobs
GitHubTwitter
Home

TechEcho

A tech news platform built with Next.js, providing global tech news and discussions.

GitHubTwitter

Home

HomeNewestBestAskShowJobs

Resources

HackerNews APIOriginal HackerNewsNext.js

© 2025 TechEcho. All rights reserved.

Why Online Dating (Still) Sucks, and a Simple Attempt at Fixing It

127 pointsby krausejjover 13 years ago

34 comments

m0nasticover 13 years ago
The rash of online dating startups always strikes me as a misguided use of people's efforts. I can appreciate that people think there's something they can contribute to it, and that they see it as a really positive win for social interaction (and I think people should work on what they want to work on).<p>But the thing is, dating sucks. Full stop. And online dating is merely trying to slightly reduce the friction for the very tiniest part at the very beginning of it. It seems to miss the whole fundamental reason why online dating is hard, which is that dating is hard, and not easily abstracted.<p>Online dating is a misnomer, it's basically just online meeting of people.
评论 #3618934 未加载
评论 #3618891 未加载
评论 #3618984 未加载
评论 #3618824 未加载
nhashemover 13 years ago
Online dating is a sausagefest. It's the biggest sausagefest ever. I'm not basing this on any scientific or quantitative information at all, just my own personal experiences from online dating from 2004-2008, the end of which was when I met my now-fiancee.<p>The "sausagefest syndrome" is inherently why so many online dating sites suck. Guys sign up and get barely any responses to their profiles or messages. Girls sign up and get immediately overwhelmed with messages, some interesting but the rest mostly boring or creepy. Guys get frustrated at the lack of traction and leave. Girls get overwhelmed by too much attention and leave. It doesn't help when the online dating sites start using fake profiles and pictures to give the false illusion it's not a sausagefest.<p>I've seen friends sign up for Match.com and be like, "this sucks, they have no matches for me," and then I find they're looking for half-Asian half-Russian college-educated non-smoking dog-owners in a 2.5 mile radius, or something like that. That's almost guaranteed to not work. Unfortunately the alternative is some sort of "shotgun strategy," which if done poorly, means sending a message to 50 girls with the same copy-pasted canned sentences, which only contributes to the women being overwhelmed. You still need to aim the shotgun. I effectively had a routine where I'd spend an evening looking through profiles, only ruling out absolute deal-breakers, and then sent a message that while mostly short, at least made some reference to the actual girl. Out of 20 messages I'd get like 5 responses, which would lead to 2 phone calls, and probably 1 actual date. Rinse, repeat.<p>Yeah, it's kind of annoying to fill out a profile and all that, but to me that's never been the problem. I feel there's a lot more social friction to get women to sign up for these sites, because while online dating to guys is basically, "well, why not, it's another possible way to meet girls," to girls it's, "this is admitting I am incompetent at/undeserving of finding love." Until that's overcome, online dating will always be a poor experience for a lot of people that try it.<p>How do you overcome it? In a drunken night with friends a couple months ago, I started rambling about an online dating site that <i>embraced</i> the male-female disparity, and basically would pair up something like 3-4 guys to every girl, and set up dates where you'd all go out like "The Bachelorette." There's a lot of reasons why that idea would be a hard sell, but if anyone ever does successfully do it, just make sure to give me my cut[0].<p>[0] <a href="http://xkcd.com/827/" rel="nofollow">http://xkcd.com/827/</a>
评论 #3619313 未加载
评论 #3619699 未加载
评论 #3619574 未加载
评论 #3619372 未加载
评论 #3619163 未加载
评论 #3619200 未加载
评论 #3619996 未加载
donallover 13 years ago
A minor point: when filling out my political orientation, I noticed that "socialist/fascist" was an option. I really don't want to start a debate, but I think these should be separate. It seems in the US they are often both considered equally dangerous extremes, but in the rest of the world, there is a pretty significant distinction between the two camps.
评论 #3620285 未加载
评论 #3619566 未加载
LaGrangeover 13 years ago
Real names? Never. It's way too easy to get a stalker even if you're initially anonymous. It would be just dangerous to use a dating site like that, especially once you add that location function into it.<p>Messages are a pretty important part of the online dating thing. Same thing with profiles. How someone reacted to your profile, how someone presents themselves, all that is really important when looking for people you'd like to talk with. And, personally, I have written quite a few messages on OKC, and never a canned one. Even if someone didn't answer, I hope I provided a bit of entertainment or amusement.<p>Now, the fact that OKC does thing like showing you profiles of people across the globe even if they're not interested with interacting with someone they might never meet – that's annoying.
swangover 13 years ago
First off, you need women on your dating site. That's it. Just like bars, you don't need to target guys, they will just go where the women also are.<p>I'm not a girl, but the top reasons that I hear about from girls in regards to online dating. 1) there's still a stigma about online dating that some girls won't get over. 2) too many "creeps" who message them. 3) they fear they are getting "played" or are getting a message from someone who just spams the same message. 4) they get way too many messages to sort through.<p>In fact most girls try to set up filters, "Don't message me if you can't spell or if you don't know the difference between, 'your' and 'you're'". Honestly though I find it hard to believe that girls are that concerned with spelling.<p>I, as a guy, have to deal with having to prove to girls that I'm not creepy, or spamming message, and on top of that have to message them something to catch their attention. Personally, it's even worse for me when the girl has nothing at all in her profile for me to ask them about.<p>So what I suggest is, automatically filter out "hey whats up gurl" messages for women. Conversely also filter out any messages that are more than 2 paragraphs in length. Show women pictures and have them rate the pictures by whether or not they would date said person then algorithmically find people on the site that look similar to pictures she favored.<p>I'm trying to think of some more, but basically make it easier for girls to filter out people they would never date. And somehow make it easier for the guy to know that the girl has some interest in him, besides weird, "winks" and icebreakers.
评论 #3619195 未加载
评论 #3619434 未加载
shalmaneseover 13 years ago
Here's the real reason why online dating sucks:<p>1. The only good sites are the ones your potential mate is on. Size is a bigger feature than any you can design.<p>2. If your site sucks, then people get frustrated and everyone leaves. If your site is great, then people get paired off and everyone leaves.<p>Online dating doesn't just suffer from network effects, it suffers from <i>second order</i> network effects. Unless you're getting a constant stream of new customers into your site every day, your site will fail.<p>All innovation in online dating comes from the customer acquisition side, not the product side. If you manage to figure out an innovative new form of customer acquisition, you can make a go at creating a viable new entrant to the market. If you can't, it doesn't matter how good your product is, you will fail.
评论 #3618977 未加载
评论 #3618914 未加载
leebover 13 years ago
&#62; You see real names<p>This would be a complete dealbreaker for me, even without all the other things that this service would share from my profile. I would never want there to be an easy way for people from the dating site to be able to find me on another site - you can shut down a dating profile or discontinuing using the service if someone's bothering you, but with this it sounds like complete strangers would be able to find/message me on Facebook outside of the site's control, and I wouldn't want to stop using Facebook because of some creeper. And if it's using publicly available Facebook data, it means I need to make a ton of my information public and accessible for the service to be useful.<p>That's not really worth the risk of using the service to me, and is probably why you don't frequently see dating sites that reveal full names/near-exact locations as you're suggesting. If you can find a way to display Facebook profile details without revealing the person's full name, you'd probably have more luck recruiting people.
评论 #3618835 未加载
phzbOxover 13 years ago
Every time I pitch startup ideas to my gf, she always tells me it sucks and gives me great reasons.. but the other day, I had this idea about dating website and she kinda liked it even though she would never want me to work on something like that.<p>Instead of trying to use the Internet to solve a problem that is better solved in real-life (i.e. meet people and talk), why not create a whole fiction world where you can be anything you want. Basically, it's a game where you put the profile picture you'd like to have, and the 'about me' you'd like to be. So, you talk with lots of strangers and avoid the awkard thingy while still having fun and meeting people. Of course, after some time, it will naturally start to be more intimate and it'd be possible to share more real stuff.. but that's not even necessary.<p>Think about all the guys and girls in couple who'd like to have fun dating again but can't because they're already in relationship? Or single players who just want to have fun?<p>Here it is. It's rough around the edges but I hope it inspire someone.
评论 #3618787 未加载
评论 #3618774 未加载
评论 #3618937 未加载
评论 #3618760 未加载
kanwisherover 13 years ago
The list of reasons doesn't seem well thought out, rejection is part of the dating experience, I would think its much worse in real life when someone ignores you then simply just not responding to an email. I really wouldnt want to tie this to facebook for the reason of stalkers and weirdos now have personal contact with me. I would prefer to keep my dating life seperate.
valladontover 13 years ago
Really not interested in having to put my sexual and relationship ideals up on facebook where friends and family can see them... Facebook is where I go to talk to people I do not want knowing a lot about my personal life.
评论 #3618683 未加载
评论 #3618696 未加载
评论 #3618684 未加载
jqueryover 13 years ago
Online dating does more than reduce "Hi, my name is" friction, it also allows you to find people who have rare attributes and personality traits you desire in a partner, before you make the commitment to spend money/time on a first date. Lists of interests and questionnaires are exactly what online dating does right and moving to Facebook would be a step backwards.<p>EDIT: In other words, my Facebook profile is not a dating profile.
stevenjover 13 years ago
The dating space is interesting. I think it's ripe for disruption. But thus far I haven't been able to figure out how to attack it, let alone where to start.<p>I think YC was right when it said you have to concentrate on solving the chicken-and-egg problem.<p><i>"...anyone who wants to start a dating startup has to answer two questions: in addition to the usual question about how you're going to approach dating differently, you have to answer the even more important question of how to overcome the huge chicken and egg problem every dating site faces. A site like Reddit is interesting when there are only 20 users. But no one wants to use a dating site with only 20 users—which of course becomes a self-perpetuating problem. So if you want to do a dating startup, don't focus on the novel take on dating that you're going to offer. That's the easy half. Focus on novel ways to get around the chicken and egg problem."</i><p>If you're passionate about building an online dating site, I'd spend all of my time iterating ways to get users. Try a bunch of different ideas. And fail fast.<p>#8 <a href="http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html" rel="nofollow">http://ycombinator.com/ideas.html</a>
评论 #3618982 未加载
评论 #3618915 未加载
mhartlover 13 years ago
<i>Am I missing anything?</i><p>You're missing at least two things. Assuming (as is reasonable) that you're principally aiming at the heterosexual market, you face these issues:<p>1. Men and women are different. How do you address gender imbalances?<p>2. Not all women are equally appealing. How do you address attractive women being overwhelmed with male attention?<p>Some may object that I didn't include "attractive men" in #2. See #1. In particular, even the most attractive men are virtually never overwhelmed with female attention on online dating sites. (Those who are probably enjoy it.)
评论 #3619017 未加载
评论 #3618997 未加载
arrakeenover 13 years ago
my response to the article and many of my friends who've had a similar experience with online dating boils down to 'ur doin it rong'. here are some tips:<p>* CAREFULLY write your profile so that it will attract the kind of person you'd like to meet. be playful, fun, and funny.<p>* DO NOT BE OVERLY SERIOUS: unfortunately there's still a bit of a social stigma against online dating so people are often already on their guard and will already be wary of everything they read. so keep the profile and messages light and playful.<p>* okcupid has a great feature that lets you see who has visited your profile, use this to your advantage. you've already carefully written your profile to attract your ideal partner, so see who it's attracted. if someone has visited your profile a couple times already, the chances that they'd be receptive to a message are much higher<p>* do not get hung up on a single person. "OMGZ my soulmate didn't reply to my message! IM FOREVER ALONE!!" well, if you two were truly compatible, don't you think they'd find your profile and message interesting?<p>tl;dr be playful, have fun, and don't take yourself too seriously
perlgeekover 13 years ago
IMHO the real problem with online dating is that it's explicit. You need to go hunting for others, set up your profile etc.<p>Imagine a world where nobody is concerned about privacy. After a while, your search engine of choice infers from your search queries that you don't have a girlfriend, and occasionally shows you a message along side the result page, telling you about a girl who has search for several similar topics than you have, roughly your age and living not too far from you. She'll get a similar message, and if you both agree, a communication channel of some sort will be made available.<p>Don't reject the idea as being creepy. It might sound creepy, but it could actually work. Search engines know a lot about you, and might find matches without you having to set up a profile, and mostly bypasses the incentive to lie in order to make you look more attractive.<p>Oh and of course it wouldn't just work for dating, but also for finding friends in general.<p>If I had a job at Google, I'd love to try my hand at prototyping such a thing.
评论 #3620342 未加载
jtokophover 13 years ago
I love the bashing of this idea in the comments. Everyone saying that they wouldn't want to use a website like this.<p>What they don't realize is that the simple choice of which service they use can act as a filter. For instance: I wouldn't want to date you privacy freaks and you wouldn't want to date me. Already filtered down the sea of singles by just signing up.
therandomguyover 13 years ago
I wonder if people will find dating and facebook too close for comfort.
kristenleeover 13 years ago
The facebook thing is an absolute dealbreaker, what don't engineers understand about people not wanting to use facebook for everything? So annoying. If you want people to use real identities there are plenty of other ways to go about it, furthermore it is not that difficult to create a fake facebook profile, i have three myself.
评论 #3618733 未加载
评论 #3618750 未加载
评论 #3618777 未加载
itmagover 13 years ago
My ideas on dating sites:<p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-misc-dating-site-ideas" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-misc-dating-site-ideas</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-slideshow-audio-voiceovers" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-slideshow-a...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-profile-improvement-team" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-profile-improvem...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-that-gets-reluctant-female-s" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-that-gets-r...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-with-gamification" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-with-gamifi...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-walk-in-my-shoes-dating-site" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-walk-in-my-shoes-dating...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-my-dating-profile-did-well" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-my-dating-profile-did-w...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-staff-of-female-helpers" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-dating-site-staff-of-fe...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-smartphone-video-speed-dating" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-smartphone-video-speed-...</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-adsense-for-dating" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-adsense-for-dating</a><p><a href="http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-photo-album-widget-for-search-result-pag" rel="nofollow">http://ideashower.posterous.com/idea-photo-album-widget-for-...</a><p>(I just pulled this out of Google, so it's not sorted by awesomeness or anything).
erikbover 13 years ago
Seeing that something sucks is not the important point. Everybody can do that. You must ask WHY, before working on solving your problems with the situation on hand.<p>And I think the reason for dating sites being quite bad is not, that nobody sees the problems. It's just that there are way bigger problems that need to get solved first and when these problems are solved you don't need to solve any other problem anymore to be successful (at least in the short run). And the big problem of all social communities and market places (dating site is something of both in my eyes) is that you need get people to come in. If there are a lot of people, other's will come automatically. If there are no people, nobody will come. The software or the service quality is only a second rank problem. So I wonder, how do u solve the community problem first?
MBlumeover 13 years ago
I don't understand why you're so determined to hide my friends. I <i>like</i> my friends. I might conceivably want to date some of them, and in any case, I'd like to show them my profile for con-crit. Is there a way to turn the "feature" off?
评论 #3620792 未加载
unobfuscateover 13 years ago
My advice, make the facebook connect a feature, not a requirement. I know this is no simple change, but you would get a lot of buy-in if you sell it as a value add.<p>"Setup your account! Don't want your friends to see your profile? click here! Want to see more people? Click here!"<p>So people connected through facebook can see everyone (minus their friends), and people who aren't can only see others who are not. Keep pushing them on facebook connect, when they do a search, tell them how many people they are missing out on! (3 results, 98 results if you click here!)
Vermeulenover 13 years ago
I think this is pretty brilliant, the ease of use and simplicity - but the fundamental problem is the requirement on Facebook. Even if your not posting on user's wall trying to spread the site I think people will still be hesitant to connect their Facebook profile to a dating site, Facebook is just too personal for something that most people would prefer to be done anonymously. Not that there is anyway around that, since Facebook gives so many other benefits for this idea
kingkawnover 13 years ago
I've had a pretty good experience with Internet dating. I've met a lot of women, become really good friends with some, had brief flings and long term girlfriends. They all are deluged with messages from creeps, but that really shouldn't impact men who aren't creeps. Many reject me, but who cares? That's true in general. I dont want life to be softer on me, I just want to go HAM on life. If you're not satisfied with the Internet hit the grocery store checkout line.
krausejjover 13 years ago
if anyone has any feedback - especially with regard to user acquisition or how to make this more viral, i'd really appreciate your ideas.
评论 #3618709 未加载
评论 #3618730 未加载
评论 #3618744 未加载
cwilsonover 13 years ago
Online dating sucks, and is hard to solve, because real-world dating sucks, and is hard to do, unless the following applies:<p>- You're attractive<p>- You're a social person<p>- Both 1 and 2<p>You can be an attractive person, but shy, and still get dates pretty easily. You can be just average looking, but very social and outgoing, and still get dates pretty easily. If you have both, the world is likely your oyster. These types of people generally never visit dating websites, because they don't need to.<p>With that in mind, we can conclude the following:<p>- Dating websites are mostly full of people who do not apply to the list above (e.g. unattractive introverts).<p>- There are still of course attractive and social people using these sites for various reasons, but they are the minority.<p>- Some of those reasons that minority exists may be because they have "issues", and regardless of being attractive and/or social, have trouble maintaining lasting relationships offline.<p>This means we have a mix of unattractive introverts not only mixing with each other, but mixing with attractive extroverts who are unstable in relationships. Then you have the "sausage fest" factor that has already been mentioned in the comments tossed into the mix, along with some dating websites simply being really, really bad (the only good one I can think of, which still has all of these problems, is OkCupid). This all sounds like a recipe for disaster to me.<p>My theory on what might actually work, and how online dating needs to evolve:<p>- In my experience, my best relationships have been a product of serendipity. You can filter through potential matches all you want, use data to try and find that perfect someone, but 9 times out of 10 when you actually meet, you'll feel absolutely no spark or connection, even if you both love all the same things. It's that spark that matters, and I've never experienced this through anything but a serendipitous encounter.<p>- The actual problem is that we shouldn't be sitting in front of our computers looking for potential mates. We should be out finding them, in real life, where the interactions actually matter, and serendipity can do its thing.<p>- This means we're trying to solve the WRONG problem. We're trying to make dating websites better. Instead, let's make it easier to get out of the house, and do the best we can to "engineer serendipity", or at least put you in situations where it's more likely to take place.<p>- While I'm not going to plan out an entire solution here, it would likely involve some of the following: It has a mobile aspect, it involves overlapping friend circles (think degrees of separation, or how you'd meet a match at a wedding or dinner party), it involves social events and situations, and it's built in a way that is perceived as safe, non-creepy, and by people who understand real world social situations and complexities (i.e. not made by the introverts who can't date without a website).<p>At the end of the day, we need a solution that helps you easily put yourself into social situations you wouldn't otherwise be in, and replicates what happens and actually works in the real world, without feeling creepy or forced.
sudoscienceover 13 years ago
My best advice is to reword the filtering section. The fact that you need to outline in red that it might work differently than people expect is a good clue that it is too hard to understand.<p>Other than that I think this is really nicely done and a great idea. However, apparently there are no 20-40 year old girls in Seattle yet. :)
prawnover 13 years ago
I have an idea in this space that I'd be keen to get feedback on. Have only ever seen one person mention the rough/loose concept before. If you have experience in this field or figure you're pretty good at picking a good/bad idea and have a spare minute, can you email me? My details are in my profile.
tsunamifuryover 13 years ago
I can never get over the fact that online dating will always be a very distant second to meeting people in real life.<p>Why don't more sites stop trying to force some artificial romance virtually and study how to get groups of people to meet in person and foster relationships.
Cyranixover 13 years ago
As a guy who met a girl on OkCupid and married her, I found the author's list of faults in existing online dating systems to be rather puzzling. Most of them seem like a) perils of dating in general or b) perils of interacting online in general -- problems that may not be solved by Yet Another Dating Site.<p>&#62; Fake pictures. People always try to game the system, and the realm of dating is no exception. It's not unheard of to create a fake Facebook account for casual social engineering.<p>&#62; Poor filtering. My personal experience doesn't match with this but YMMV. OkCupid has rather good filtering using not only quantitative data (e.g. location, age range, tagged interests) but also more qualitative data (e.g. question system). I suppose Match.com was somewhat less effective.<p>&#62; Can't tell who is actually interested. That's dating for you. Also, being direct isn't creepy unless you're directly being creepy.<p>&#62; Creating a profile is a huge pain. Probably the most legitimate beef with online dating. I found OkCupid pretty straightforward and well-incentivized, but YMMV. I wonder how indicative someone's Facebook profile is, though, of what they offer in a relationship; plenty of people have profiles brimming with the minutiae of daily life instead of statements about their fundamental beliefs and desires.<p>&#62; You may see someone you know. This doesn't have to be a huge deal. I saw two of my friends on OkCupid, one of whom I was romantically involved with previously. We had a good laugh about it and moved on. Don't buy into the assumed social stigma of online dating -- it's not the end of the world for someone to know you're putting yourself out there.<p>&#62; Data never disappears online. I didn't know what to make of this point, honestly. Don't people just delete/archive/ignore old messages? Is there some concern that these become public knowledge?<p>&#62; Rejection is painful, and there is more of it online. As another commenter has said, dating is a numbers game. Online dating increases exposure to potential dates, so rejection increases -- though (based on my experience and those of friends who have also done online dating) roughly in proportion to what is experienced with in-person dating. There's always a point in dating where someone can get rejected; it can actually be liberating to have small rejections up front instead of big rejections down the road (for several reasons, not least of which is the lost opportunity cost of the failed relationship). No matter how much a site tries to shelter a user, it can't last forever. [ See also Rejection Therapy discussed on HN: <a href="http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&#38;q=rejection%20therapy" rel="nofollow">http://www.hnsearch.com/search#request/all&#38;q=rejection%2...</a> ]<p>&#62; It just feels juvenile. OkCupid allows good flexibility in how you express yourself. The question system helps some people elaborate on topics that are particularly salient to their interests; other people are more comfortable writing short essays; still others are comfortable summing themselves up in a few bullet points. Also, on this count you've disregarded a crucial intermediate step between one's online profile and an in-person date: online messaging. The profile establishes interest, messaging confirms interest, in-person dates explore whether interest becomes a relationship.<p>krausejj, I'd be interested to know which sites you've used to reach your conclusions -- and, sincerely, best of luck refining the concept and creating a successful product.
评论 #3620768 未加载
评论 #3620769 未加载
krausejjover 13 years ago
the male to female ratio on Circl.es just swung wildly towards the males since launching on HN (it had been primarily female). hacker girls - you have very good odds right now!
评论 #3619954 未加载
discountgeniusover 13 years ago
I had a very, very similar idea (but with more facebook integration) less than two weeks ago. I'm glad it's already built. Now we just need some girls to join...
izaover 13 years ago
I'm slightly offended that you combined Socialist with Fascist in the political views section.
评论 #3620709 未加载
评论 #3620805 未加载
georgieporgieover 13 years ago
Facebook was the best dating site ever invented, until they killed the ability to search on sex and relationship status within arbitrary networks.<p>By the way, to my knowledge, nobody has tried peer-curated online dating. i.e. an interested friend does the awful work of searching and matching, forwards minimal details for approval from both parties, and coordinates the meeting. In other words, online dating which more closely approximates traditional social methods.