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GM to use Tesla charging network, joining Ford

175 pointsby klochalmost 2 years ago

13 comments

fnimickalmost 2 years ago
This is absolutely awful for the industry. I hope the FTC steps in and either forces Tesla to truly open its connector (no requiring licensing fees &#x2F; handing over development to an industry consortium) or kills these deals.<p>I genuinely don&#x27;t know why people are excited to replace an open standard with a proprietary one. Imagine if all USB development were hamstrung and required to go through an Apple approval process, and every device you bought had to pay the Apple tax for a lightning port?<p>In addition, it seems that in the way the way the language is worded, Tesla&#x27;s connector now qualifies for infrastructure subsidies because it can charge multiple makes of vehicles, even though it&#x27;s limited to only those makes that have paid them the tax*. That&#x27;s appalling.<p>* this is made clear by their discussion of the Tesla to CCS adapters, which are vendor locked to only charge GM and Ford vehicles. Everyone with a different brand of car is left out. &quot;Open standard&quot;? I don&#x27;t think so.
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mperhamalmost 2 years ago
I think most will agree that the CCS connector is godawful compared to Tesla&#x27;s NACS. But why? Does anyone know why CCS was designed so poorly?
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dheeraalmost 2 years ago
Good. The CCS connector is hideous, sags under its own weight, and most CCS chargers just fail to start charging. Usually the car is expecting current when it is plugged in, and by the time you open up the app and figure out how to pay, the car has given up on the charger and won&#x27;t charge when the charger is ready.<p>Hopefully they can work it out so that all cars can just plug in and everything is negotiated for you without any apps.
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promochaalmost 2 years ago
This makes sense as Ford just adopted Tesla&#x27;s NACS (North American Charging Standard) and GM would logically follow. We can now assume that the charging industry is disrupted by Tesla&#x27;s NACS. Existing EV charging companies for ex. EVGO would need to upgrade all their chargers to adopt Tesla&#x27;s connector.<p>Currently none of the existing chargers, if it all, work with Teslas. The worst thing of this all Tesla would start selling chargers to networks and only moat existing charging companies have is the 10-15 years leases they have on charging sites.<p>Another thing I haven&#x27;t seen mentioned in comments is that CCS standard is owned by BMW and they charge $50 patent fee on each connection.
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endisneighalmost 2 years ago
This is an interesting example of why trying to regulate standards for an industry in its infancy might not go as planned
zzzeekalmost 2 years ago
I remember being mocked here for lamenting that my Hyundai Ioniq 5 will be relegated to having to use some klunky adapter to charge where everyone else does, if even someone makes an adapter for Tesla &#x2F; Hyundai that works. &quot;Tesla is fitting CCS onto their superchargers! just like in Europe!&quot; they told me. BS - Elon can sit back and let everyone come to him now, no way he does squat with CCS connectors here.
infectoalmost 2 years ago
I am curious how this will play out. This is great news for Tesla and probably good news for future Ford and GM EV owner. Bad news for all the CCS charge companies out there but honestly screw them. They are generally some of the worst experiences out there and maybe this forces them to actually be better.<p>EA is genuinely one of the worst charging experiences I have ever had. The EA near my house is totally fine but while traveling it’s hit or miss. I tried using one last time because the Tesla supercharger had a 10min wait, I have an EA account, try to tap my account with my phone like always…does not work. Ok let me pay by credit card, it does not accept my main credit card so I use my backup, works. Charging starts then when my car gets to 60% it just stops, EA just stopped me. I try to restart the process and EA terminal says that I cannot charge anymore by credit card…What the heck. Just a terrible experience for something that should be so simple.
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sorenjanalmost 2 years ago
I wonder how well this works with the proposed US-EU agreement on common charging ports? About a week ago EU and the US met for the EU-US Trade and Technology Council, where among other things they published this[0]:<p><pre><code> We also welcome the publication of EU-US joint technical recommendations for government-funded implementation of e-vehicle charging infrastructure which were developed in consultation with governments, industry, and grid-service stakeholders. </code></pre> This then links to a slightly more technical document[1], with more specific information:<p><pre><code> 1.) Adopt an agreed set of standards and regulations in technical requirements for public funding, while expanding transatlantic collaboration to identify and address priority gaps in standards for e-mobility infrastructure. The following could be implemented now, or is currently implemented by authorities: a) Require, as a minimum, use of pertinent IEC 61851 and IEC 62196-2&#x2F;-3 standards for light- to medium-duty EV inlets and their EV-EVSE connectors, respecting the &quot;Type 1&quot;- and &quot;Type 2&quot;- form, as commonly used in the U.S. and the EU, respectively. </code></pre> I believe it is the IEC 62196 standard[2] that governs the connectors, and I don&#x27;t see Tesla&#x27;s connector in there.<p>[0] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ec.europa.eu&#x2F;commission&#x2F;presscorner&#x2F;detail&#x2F;en&#x2F;statement_23_2992" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;ec.europa.eu&#x2F;commission&#x2F;presscorner&#x2F;detail&#x2F;en&#x2F;statem...</a><p>[1] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu&#x2F;system&#x2F;files&#x2F;2023-05&#x2F;Transatlantic_Technical_Recommendations_for_Government_Funded_Implementation_of_Electric_Vehicle_Charging_Infrastructure_0.pdf" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;joint-research-centre.ec.europa.eu&#x2F;system&#x2F;files&#x2F;2023...</a><p>[2] <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;IEC_62196" rel="nofollow">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;IEC_62196</a>
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browningstreetalmost 2 years ago
The right tech won.<p>Beta beat VHS, in this case.
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lvl102almost 2 years ago
My understanding is that they were forced to open these standards and charging stations in order to get full credits for their cars. Is that wrong?
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pfannkuchenalmost 2 years ago
What is the upside for Tesla here? Do they make much profit off of the charging network? I had assumed not.
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Mizoguchialmost 2 years ago
VW should be sued again by the US government for providing that garbage of Electrify America.
RadixDLTalmost 2 years ago
smart move, they don&#x27;t have to develop their own charging stations, but will tesla allow this?
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