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What character was removed from the alphabet? (2020)

261 pointsby paulkrushalmost 2 years ago

29 comments

Symbiotealmost 2 years ago
I thought this would be about Old→Middle→Modern English, in which case the lost letters are Ƿ, ð, þ and æ.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Middle_English#Alphabet" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Middle_English#Alphabet</a>
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paulkrushalmost 2 years ago
&quot;It would have been confusing to say “X, Y, Z, and.” So, the students said, “and per se and.” Per se means “by itself,” so the students were essentially saying, “X, Y, Z, and by itself and.” The term per se was used to denote letters that also doubled as words, such as the letter I (for “me”) and A. By saying “per se,” you clarified that you meant the symbol and not the word.<p>Over time, “and per se and” was slurred together into the word we use today: ampersand.&quot;
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mcdonjealmost 2 years ago
&quot;&amp;&quot; wasn&#x27;t ever in the alphabet in the same capacity as the letters that represent sounds. It was there as a keyword signifying the end of the list. Then its name was expanded to clarify that it was not a normal letter but a keyword. Then that expanded name was misinterpreted by people who never needed the list termination signifier to begin with.<p>Lesson? KISS. They should&#x27;ve implemented it with brackets.
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jmclnxalmost 2 years ago
When I was very young, I remember AE being used in various printed materials (school books).<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;%C3%86" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;%C3%86</a><p>But by the time I was in High School it seemed to have disappeared.
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beardywalmost 2 years ago
Ah, mondegreen<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Mondegreen" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.m.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Mondegreen</a><p>I remember the Maxell tape ads (ibid) &quot;Me ears are alight&quot;.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;XEe0qqPAC6E" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;youtu.be&#x2F;XEe0qqPAC6E</a>
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chrischenalmost 2 years ago
In the classic alphabet song &amp; comes between Y and Z. It’s been hiding there all this time.
blacksmith_tbalmost 2 years ago
I naively thought to be &quot;part of the alphabet&quot; our ancestors would have needed to, you know, use &quot;&amp;&quot; in words - the article weakly hints at this for &quot;&amp;c&quot; as being equivalent to &quot;etc&quot; (saving keystrokes even before they had keyboards, I guess). But given that they didn&#x27;t, say, write &quot;sand&quot; as &quot;s&amp;&quot; I will politely refuse to accept it as a letter.
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weinzierlalmost 2 years ago
I always thought <i>amper</i> was another word for merchant because in my native German the &amp; symbol is called <i>&quot;Kaufmanns-Und&quot;</i>, literally &quot;<i>merchants-and&quot;</i>.
hirundoalmost 2 years ago
This was good planning, if it was still part of the alphabet we couldn&#x27;t use it for an URL query parameter delimiter.
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WarOnPrivacyalmost 2 years ago
In the early 1970&#x27;s, I saw the &amp; appear in some of our older alphabet books. The absolutist child in me tried to work out if that bit of archaic data was authoritative or not.<p>Those books were likely printed in the 1950s.
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arek_nawoalmost 2 years ago
Never would I have thought that &quot;&amp;&quot; was ever part of an alphabet. It&#x27;s more of a symbol, like &quot;.&quot; or &quot;;&quot;. HN is sometimes a source of curious things.
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justin_oaksalmost 2 years ago
I was hoping this article would be about the letter C and be from the future.<p>The letter C is useless. It either makes the sound that S does or the sound K does. Instead of C we should just use an S or a K for every place a C is.<p>Some may argue that without C we wouldn&#x27;t have CH. And then I say, &quot;Why do we need two characters to represent a single sound? It should have it&#x27;s own letter.&quot;<p>Alas, English spelling is all kinds of messed up. And I&#x27;ll have to resign myself to that fact.
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franciscopalmost 2 years ago
I keep saying that, by chance, it&#x27;s a pity that the English alphabet has exactly 23 letters and doesn&#x27;t have a single one more. Had it one more letter, say &quot;ñ&quot; or &quot;ç&quot; or some other, that&#x27;d make it perfect for base64: 24*2 + 10 = 64. Instead now we have 62 &quot;base&quot; alphanumeric alphabet, and two symbols that are disagreed upon since they have to be chosen depending on the context.
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NelsonMinaralmost 2 years ago
The alternate question is &quot;why are these 26 characters the American English alphabet?&quot; It&#x27;s fairly arbitrary, a collection of historical accidents and changes in orthography.<p>And it&#x27;s incomplete. You can&#x27;t really write American English with just the usual 26 letters. Ñ and the ʻokina are proper letters and necessary for writing a bunch of American words correctly. The various kahakō are helpful too but they are treated as diacritics and not full fledged separate letters.
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4caoalmost 2 years ago
I was expecting this would be about the letter Ⱶ or one of the other Claudian letters of the Latin alphabet: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Claudian_letters" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;en.wikipedia.org&#x2F;wiki&#x2F;Claudian_letters</a>
markwalllbergalmost 2 years ago
In the early 1800s, school children reciting their ABCs concluded the alphabet with the &amp;.<p>It would have been confusing to say “X, Y, Z, and.” So, the students said, “and per se and.” Per se means “by itself,” so the students were essentially saying, “X, Y, Z, and by itself and.”<p>So it was just some shorthand tossed in there
paulkrushalmost 2 years ago
I think of Hacker News as a source of interesting things that I as a nerd, did not know &amp; this fits.
JoeAltmaieralmost 2 years ago
OP says &#x27;per se&#x27; means &#x27;by itself&#x27;. But in this case (the alphabet song) it makes more sense for &#x27;per se&#x27; to have it&#x27;s other meaning: &#x27;as such&#x27;. That is, the letter means the same as &#x27;and&#x27;.
kazinatoralmost 2 years ago
Q: What character was removed from the alphabet?<p>A:<p><pre><code> 1&gt; (diff (range #\a #\z) &quot;the alphabet&quot;) (#\c #\d #\f #\g #\i #\j #\k #\m #\n #\o #\q #\r #\s #\u #\v #\w #\x #\y #\z) </code></pre> Plus all all non-alphabetic characters other than space.
anotherhuealmost 2 years ago
Ever wondered about those old &#x27;U&#x27;s that look like V?<p>Now you know why &#x27;W&#x27; is so named.
narcraftalmost 2 years ago
Tom Bombadil
jwilkalmost 2 years ago
Related from 2022: <a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32249465">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;news.ycombinator.com&#x2F;item?id=32249465</a> (&quot;The History of ‘Ampersand’ (2020)&quot;, 178 comments)
DonHopkinsalmost 2 years ago
The Story of Ampersand, in The Phantom Tollbooth universe.<p><a href="https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sharegpt.com&#x2F;c&#x2F;J1U3T7m" rel="nofollow noreferrer">https:&#x2F;&#x2F;sharegpt.com&#x2F;c&#x2F;J1U3T7m</a>
contingenciesalmost 2 years ago
Imagine a roguelike using all of these obscure characters where key plot elements are the elucidation of their true histories.
kzrdudealmost 2 years ago
Part of the english alphabet, but in which region, all english speaking places? I&#x27;m curious where it comes from.
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rvbaalmost 2 years ago
Why is M before N in the alphabet. It should be N first, then M!
zoklet-enjoyeralmost 2 years ago
&amp;totse
rovr138almost 2 years ago
ch, ll
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re-thcalmost 2 years ago
Google